Jaytb Posted May 21, 2009 Posted May 21, 2009 I enjoy your over use of the word "strawman arguments". People throw that phrase around like it's going out of style. no, I think that's the first time I used it.
Jersey Shortie Posted May 21, 2009 Posted May 21, 2009 You walked around answering the direct question again. If a man likes to look at and validate other owmen, why shouldn't a woman like to be looked at and validated by other men. If he isn't insecure for enjoying this, why is she? Not all men are off staring at other women. Some of them are quite happy with what they have at home. You don't seem to get that point. Ever. And not all women have a problem with their men looking at other women, because they know ultimately its ONLY LOOKING, and they don't need to compete or validate or any of that rubbish because they are happy with themselves. What if it isn't only looking? What if men were thinking about these women for a period of time? Having fantasies about her? Masturbating to her? What if it'sn't just looking but he has an image of that girl in his head that he pulls out from time to time? I think it's a shame that we tell women that they are the 'better" woman for being sweet little loving gf/wives that don't need to show off their bodies and that somehow proves confidence but that men are just "men" and should oggle everything in their path and that's okay. It's okay for men to validate other women but godforbid a woman want some of that attention he is so freely giving other women. Men are just as insecure as women. Usually about different things. Christ, lets make it even more difficult for women. Who cares as long as he gets to have it all and c I've had happy relationships in my life Sb. Does that make my arguments more valid now.
carhill Posted May 21, 2009 Posted May 21, 2009 Just don't 'give a hoot' about other women.. just be who you are.. and be confident... confidence is waaay sexier than any summer mini skirt.. trust me on that one.. OP, this is really good advice to attract a compatible and healthy man, if that is what you want. IMO, a good education is far more important than perceived social popularity/attractiveness with other men and/or women.
sb129 Posted May 21, 2009 Posted May 21, 2009 I didn't answer the direct question, because I don't care enough about the issue. It doesn't affect my life at all, and its not a problem for me. I don't see what you are talking about in my life.... maybe it does exist for some people, but you seem to think it happens everywhere to everyone, and it doesn't. And THAT is my point. Its this kind of obsession with Man vs Woman that makes people unhappy... I've had happy relationships in my life Sb. Does that make my arguments more valid now.Not really. You still seem too hung up on stuff that doesn't have to matter to have one now.
mixwell Posted May 21, 2009 Posted May 21, 2009 the weather has gotten much warmer where I am from I am taking summer classes at my university to finish up, and all the girls are dressed down, dressed more revealing. I feel so insecure. Like I need to dress down to look like them but I am not confident enough to do that and I don't like my body right now. Now I really won't find a boyfriend wth half naked girls all around for men to look at. Just how am I going to stand out now?? I think if you really aren't happy with your body then do something about it and diet and join a gym. Don't feel insecure because of what others look like. I am at your stage right now as a male but I am not insecure. I believe I have a good looking mug and great personality but I would like to slim down a bit. Rather than thinking about how I wish I was slimmer I have (as of the last 2 weeks) got back into the gym as I have gained about 20 pounds from being lazy... I don't complain about my body though because I realize why I gained 20 pounds and I know what I have to do to lose that weight. I say don't worry soo much about attracting a male and worry about improving other aspects of your life.. Personally rather than trying to find a girl currently I'm working on managing my income and trying to pay off my damn credit cards and in the mean time try to make my appearance a little better so I can attract a more attractive female (although my last g/f was probly the cutest girl I've been with and it was when I weighed almost the most I've weighed) Thank god for hot girls that are chubby chasers :lmao:
kdark Posted May 21, 2009 Posted May 21, 2009 I don't think I look all that great in sexy clothes. I feel more comfortable conservatively dressed. And even if I did dress sexy, I am still competing with other women when I go out. Every girl has their legs, stomach, breasts anythign you name out..just how will I be able to stand out if all the other women are willing to go the extra mile by wearing even less than I do? Men are standing outside more often looking at all the women, with a big chest cat grin on their faces..the more revealing the woman is dressed the more nicer and friendlier they are...a conservatively dressed woman comes around and you might as well be invisible. Then these same men will complain about how they can't meet a lady If you are more comfortable conservatively dressed, then why do you care about the skirt chasers who spray their shorts whenever they see a mini skirt and tank top? They aren't your kind of guys, and you will end up even more insecure if you actually do start dating one when they continue to look at the T&A. Just walk around campus in a string bikini. From the sound of things at your university, you will have the entire male student body wanting your phone number by the end of the day.
Author MeaganRaye Posted May 21, 2009 Author Posted May 21, 2009 I don't get why some women feel the need to compete with other women either. There is someone for everyone out there- and people find all sorts of different looks hot. And I agree about confidence.... its the thing that makes you the most attractive. Yeah but even if you do find someone you have to worry about your s/o looking at all the half naked women out in the street during the summer--even if you are wearing less yourself. It's so hard to please a man in this society
sxyNYCcpl Posted May 21, 2009 Posted May 21, 2009 Yeah but even if you do find someone you have to worry about your s/o looking at all the half naked women out in the street during the summer--even if you are wearing less yourself. It's so hard to please a man in this society So let me see if I've got this straight. You don't like to dress sexy to attract men, yet you realize that dressing sexy will help attract men. Further, you are worried that a man that you HAVE NOT YET MET might look at half naked women out in the street after meeting you?? Well, let me clue you in. He will. We all do, heck in Manhattan it's almost an outright sport. If you have the expectation that once "a" man becomes "your" man that he will cease noticing other women, you are setting yourself up for a lifetime of disappointment, because that just isn't going to happen. If you are worried about LOSING said man to a random "half-naked woman out in the street" then I suggest you insure that your relationship is happy and solid. If it is, you wouldn't even need to worry about fully naked women wandering the streets. If it is not, well then it's not, and it's future viability has little to do with the state of dress whether it's summer, winter, or otherwise. Sheesh.
JeezLouise Posted May 21, 2009 Posted May 21, 2009 It's so hard to please a man in this society You know what pleases a man? A woman who has enough confidence in herself that she doesn't obsess over what other women are wearing. Men like women who are bony, thin, slender, average, chunky, curvy, Rubenesque, obese, short, and tall. Men like women. Period. Meagan, you aren't even going to interest a sugar daddy if you don't get off this idea that you are worthless without a man. A thought. You are in university. Get accepted into a program that works with the blind. Find a guy there. Problem solved.
GorillaTheater Posted May 21, 2009 Posted May 21, 2009 The relationship I made was between the fact men will proudly state how of course they will look at a hot woman but then turn around and call women sluts that dress hotly or that they like more "consersitive girls'. I think that is about male insecurity and I think you see the truth in my words which is why you rather attack me then debate the issue. You see an attack because you enjoy being perceived as a victim, and frankly I have little or no patience for people, male or female, with that mindset. My point is that one or two women posted about "trampy" dress and your knee-jerk response, as always, is not to debate the point with the female posters but to attack all men. A logical fallacy you seem to be too smart to fall into but yet do almost without fail. So please spare me the protestations of "why won't you debate me" when you don't seem to know the first thing about how one is conducted. Women aren't insecure because they dress sexy and want attention, not all women at least. You men are so ready to stare at a pretty woman but then have this strange double face where you condemn us wanting to look pretty. WTF. So it's okay for men to stare at all the hot girls who dress with the purpose to attract attention but somhow a girl is a "slut" for dressing sexy. Give me a break. Huge double standard. There is a huge difference between sexy and trampy, and if you don't recognize that then I'm not inclined to explain it to you. I see alot of sexy and very little trampy, even in a smallish city with 30,000 female college students. I don't hear men call women "sluts" for dressing sexy. If you do, I suspect it has alot to do with the filters through which you apparently hear everything: those designed to make women, and more specifically you, victims of bad ol' men. So, there is no double standard on the whole; what there is of it applies to only a small minority of men. Slice and dice this as you will; I imagine that I'll regret bothering to address this.
sb129 Posted May 21, 2009 Posted May 21, 2009 . It's so hard to please a man in this society Is it? I hadn't noticed.... You know what pleases a man? A woman who has enough confidence in herself that she doesn't obsess over what other women are wearing. Men like women who are bony, thin, slender, average, chunky, curvy, Rubenesque, obese, short, and tall. Men like women. Period. Meagan, you aren't even going to interest a sugar daddy if you don't get off this idea that you are worthless without a man. A thought. You are in university. Get accepted into a program that works with the blind. Find a guy there. Problem solved. Great post. I suggested that JS find a blind guy too in another thread. Great minds.....
Jersey Shortie Posted May 22, 2009 Posted May 22, 2009 SB, you're wasting your time and making yourself look snarky. Not only once but twice now. Mocking another poster, whether it's Meg or me, and telling either one of us to date a blind guy for the sole reason of his blindess is a thinely veiled insult. Not because of the blind person but because of your mocking insinuation. You see an attack because you enjoy being perceived as a victim, and frankly I have little or no patience for people, male or female, with that mindset. Just because you think that, doesn't mean that's how I am. I never said I was a victim or think I am. If you want to think that about me, thats your choice. These are just issues I encounter when it comes to guys. You don't have to agree with it. You're a guy. Obviously you aren't going to have the same issues from your view point. I certainly don't see myself as a victim. I see myself as a girl trying to get to a point where I can have a fullfilling, happy relationship with a man. Hopefully one that doesn't feel so trapped in his relationship with me he's on the hunt whenever he goes out in public and can be happy with what he has got because hopefully, I can be the kind of women he wants. And hopefully one that won't forever be checking out college girls. There is a huge difference between sexy and trampy, and if you don't recognize that then I'm not inclined to explain it to you. I see alot of sexy and very little trampy, even in a smallish city with 30,000 female college students. I don't hear men call women "sluts" for dressing sexy. Perhpas your outlook and mine are a generational thing. I often see alot of guys oggle the very girls they will call names. And I ha ve seen and experienced alot of guys that will praise their girlfriend for "covering it up" but oggle other women stilll. And I think that is insecurity on the male part. Men and women are both insecure. Usually about different things. That's why I think it's unfair to berate the women that are bothered by the man they care about looking at other women. Or telling them they are just "insecure". Yeah, sometimes as a woman of course I am insecure. I don't think that makes me weaker or silly or anything other then insecure due to the preassure in this day and age. Of course men experience preassure too and different insecurities. But sexually speaking, I still think in 2009, women are still set to a stricter code. How many men take the visual home with them or think about having sex with that girl? How many men with families, wives and children, are looking at girls half their age? It's frustrating. And I don't want to be a 40 year old woman with the man I love while he oggles all types of other women. It's humilating and why do men even bother having relationships at all if that's what they want to do.
Author MeaganRaye Posted May 22, 2009 Author Posted May 22, 2009 So let me see if I've got this straight. You don't like to dress sexy to attract men, yet you realize that dressing sexy will help attract men. Further, you are worried that a man that you HAVE NOT YET MET might look at half naked women out in the street after meeting you?? Well, let me clue you in. He will. We all do, heck in Manhattan it's almost an outright sport. If you have the expectation that once "a" man becomes "your" man that he will cease noticing other women, you are setting yourself up for a lifetime of disappointment, because that just isn't going to happen. If you are worried about LOSING said man to a random "half-naked woman out in the street" then I suggest you insure that your relationship is happy and solid. If it is, you wouldn't even need to worry about fully naked women wandering the streets. If it is not, well then it's not, and it's future viability has little to do with the state of dress whether it's summer, winter, or otherwise. Sheesh. Why can't you men just be satisfied with who you have? why do you always have to look at other women? what is the point of even being in a relationship if you are always oogling somebody else? fine I don't want a man then if he is never going to think I am enough for him. I don't want to accept him always looking at somebody else.
donnamaybe Posted May 22, 2009 Posted May 22, 2009 Why can't you men just be satisfied with who you have? why do you always have to look at other women? what is the point of even being in a relationship if you are always oogling somebody else? fine I don't want a man then if he is never going to think I am enough for him. I don't want to accept him always looking at somebody else. But, Meagan, if you WERE with a man, wouldn't it kinda creep you out a bit if he flew off the handle every time you happened to notice that another man was good looking? I don't mean tongue hanging out, drool sliding down your chin ogling, but just noticing and appreciating. Wouldn't you feel your man was kind of a wienie if he couldn't handle that? You seem like an intelligent girl, but just insecure. Work on appreciating your strengths and you'll soon find yourself dwelling less on your flaws. We all have flaws! Now it's gonna be a GREAT long, three day weekend. Go put on some weather appropriate clothing and ENJOY IT!
sxyNYCcpl Posted May 22, 2009 Posted May 22, 2009 Why can't you men just be satisfied with who you have? Earth to Meagan. Looking at women other than our partners does not necessarily imply we are dissatisfied with our partners. For chrissake, my wife and I routinely invite others into our bed for actual sexual activities, and I assure you we are both extremely satisfied with each other, both in the bed as well as out of it. And it says nothing of her dedication to me when she notices a studly firefighter walking the other way. why do you always have to look at other women? Because we are human, and noticing attractive members of the opposite sex, even if in a monogamous relationship, is a normal part of the human condition. what is the point of even being in a relationship if you are always oogling somebody else? Are you JS's alter-ego?? First off, true oogling is downright rude under normal circumstances whether you are in a relationship or not. Noticing and/or observing someone is normal. Who gave you the unrealistic expectation that an adult romantic relationship equates to virtual worship? Cause they really messed with your mind. fine I don't want a man then if he is never going to think I am enough for him. I don't want to accept him always looking at somebody else. Good luck! Because what you seek DOES NOT EXIST. Or, as another poster suggested, perhaps you should find somebody who is blind. FWIW, no human will ever provide 100% of another humans needs, regardless of how good their relationship is.
Jaytb Posted May 22, 2009 Posted May 22, 2009 Good luck! Because what you seek DOES NOT EXIST. Or, as another poster suggested, perhaps you should find somebody who is blind. Well if she really wants a guy who won't look, then she can move to Saudi Arabia, wear a burqa, and marry a Saudi Arabian man (which I believe requires conversion to Islam as well). After all, why look when women are covered head to toe anyway. Edit: this isn't meant to be mean spirited or anything, just reality for modern life.
Mahatma Posted May 24, 2009 Posted May 24, 2009 Why can't you men just be satisfied with who you have? why do you always have to look at other women? what is the point of even being in a relationship if you are always oogling somebody else? fine I don't want a man then if he is never going to think I am enough for him. I don't want to accept him always looking at somebody else. Just because a guy looks at another girl does not mean he is "oogling" her. Do you never look at anyone else... EVER? I look at other attractive people, guys or girls. Both will catch my eye. Not because I am actually attracted to them, but just because beauty attracts the eye. I don't care how beautiful another female may be, how slutty she may be dressed, or how sexy she is because I know that I have something more important than that in my relationship. What makes it even better is my girlfriend could care less about other women. She does not feel threatened by any of them, or at least does not show it. It makes it so much better to not have a woman who freaks out because she feels threatened by another... what a turnoff. To hear you say that warmer weather makes you nervous because other girls start wearing less makes me think you have very low self confidence. It has been a while since I posted here (first page), but what I said still stands. People like to look at attractive looking people, however, for many, it does not go any further than that. Bottom line: Who cares about these other women? Who cares if some guys choose looks over the entire package? Not your loss in my opinion. The biggest turn off to other guys will not be your looks compared to other women. It will be your lack of confidence and self-worth.
Jersey Shortie Posted May 24, 2009 Posted May 24, 2009 I don't care how beautiful another female may be, how slutty she may be dressed, or how sexy she is because I know that I have something more important than that in my relationship. If it's so important to you, why look? I mean, I understand looking *sometimes*. But the amount that the guys here are saying is okay, it gets tiresome. What makes it even better is my girlfriend could care less about other women. She does not feel threatened by any of them, or at least does not show it. It makes it so much better to not have a woman who freaks out because she feels threatened by another... what a turnoff. From a female standpoint, its just as unattractive if you are out with your guy and his eyes rove around to other women. That's the last thing that makes you feel close or feel liek being close to your partner. It's a totaly turn off. What would make it better is if my boyfriend could care less about other women and looking and checking them out. Seems to me that you are telling girls to caresless about other girls while their man is free to oggle. Why don't men take the stance of caring less about other girls and perhaps focusing that energy on their partner? You'd probably have a much happier partner. And a much happier partner means she is more happy to give you waht you ultimately need.
missdependant Posted May 24, 2009 Posted May 24, 2009 You seem like an intelligent girl, but just insecure. Work on appreciating your strengths and you'll soon find yourself dwelling less on your flaws. We all have flaws! I agree.. also, if you can appreciate YOURSELF, you can appreciate others. It will be easier for you to say "Wow, she's hot", instead of "Ugh, what a slutty bitch."
Jaytb Posted May 25, 2009 Posted May 25, 2009 From a female standpoint, its just as unattractive if you are out with your guy and his eyes rove around to other women. That's the last thing that makes you feel close or feel liek being close to your partner. It's a totaly turn off. What would make it better is if my boyfriend could care less about other women and looking and checking them out. Seems to me that you are telling girls to caresless about other girls while their man is free to oggle. Why don't men take the stance of caring less about other girls and perhaps focusing that energy on their partner? You'd probably have a much happier partner. And a much happier partner means she is more happy to give you waht you ultimately need. I guess you can tell others how to think and feel right? Can you not read, he just said she's not threatened or insecure because of other women. (I don't even know why I bother anymore lol)
Jersey Shortie Posted May 25, 2009 Posted May 25, 2009 I guess you can tell others how to think and feel right? Can you not read, he just said she's not threatened or insecure because of other women. (I don't even know why I bother anymore lol) I wasn't talking about his partner. I said from my standpoint as a woman what I thought. And I am sorry, but men aren't these super incontrol confident creatures themselves. The things they tend to be insecure about are different from the things women can be insecure about. So I take heart with all the comments about insecurity and making the woman feel bad for it.
Jaytb Posted May 25, 2009 Posted May 25, 2009 I wasn't talking about his partner. I said from my standpoint as a woman what I thought. You said he'd probably have a much happier partner, and I don't think you're his partner. And I am sorry, but men aren't these super incontrol confident creatures themselves. The things they tend to be insecure about are different from the things women can be insecure about. So I take heart with all the comments about insecurity and making the woman feel bad for it. It sucks when either a man or a woman is insecure. It chokes a relationship and kills the passion. So it doesn't matter which gender it is, people don't want an insecure partner to choke them, period.
missdependant Posted May 25, 2009 Posted May 25, 2009 Also, I wanted to throw out there that I have seen plenty of "unattractive" girls who dress conservatively AND have boyfriends. You probably aren't as unattractive as you think you are. You're more critical of yourself than anyone else. Your appearance won't have a lot to do with not getting boyfriends. But your attitude; especially toward yourself, WILL. And like I said earlier.. the better your attitude is toward yourself, the more it will improve toward other people in general. Quit being so down on yourself. Most people find that HIGHLY unattractive. Probably more so than average looks, or unconventional looks.
Isolde Posted May 25, 2009 Posted May 25, 2009 You're dropping a class because you can't stand seeing guys look at girls on a university campus? Sometimes I think you are a troll.
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