This Book is complete

[White Flower]

1. You are looking to compare this guy to your ex. You even what him to apoligize to the woman that has been cheating on him for 5+years.

 

2. I answered her question and you tried to get her thinking like you and you just referred to it as "seeing the light". She never asked to be persuaded she just asked how to get her H to believe her.

 

3. Cut the mancode crap. There is no such thing and no you can not turn a hoe into a housewife, just like you can't turn a pimp into a husband. Its not mancode its common since. From what we know this "lady" cheated for 5 out 20 years of marriage. That is 25% of her marriage and that is just what we know. She could have been cheating before. I like how you didn't respond to her using her children or does that not count in your equation?

 

4. Once again you used the cop out man code excuse. There is no war between males and females and if there was one you guys already won. THERE IS NO MANCODE. Every guy will jump through hoops for a women they care about.

 

5. I usually don't call names, I have just done that on this thread. Yes i am not sensitive to people who try to pretend they have no control over their actions or people who blame others for their mistakes. Like cheaters who blame the bs. There are 100's of routes you can take but you and others chose to cheat, YOU WERE NOT FORCED TO.

1. Go ahead and put words in my mouth. Again, I said there is always a reason someone opens their mind to an A. If you can't see that, it could happen to you.

 

2. And I did not persuade her. I showed her what her H was up to.

 

3. Children never came up in our discussion.

 

4. I don't believe the BH in this case cared for his W. So she found someone to care. Wrong or right, this is what she sought.

 

5. We can agree on number five. Cheating is a choice. Being treated like **** by your spouse is not. Some pretend and others don't. All I ever did on this thread was try to understand the reason behind her choice.

[boldjack]

Wf, Ikjh is right about one thing, WS'S choose to have the affair, that choice is not made for them. Ikjh, You seem to have a block on compassion. Bad marriages don't end on a time-table, and affair's don't start on one either. People, being people, and therefore fallible, usually allow things to happen to them, rather than Make things happen to them. The tide of emotions are not always stemmed by rational thought. Wf's feelings and SD's feelings are something you don't know about , for you and others to project your own issues onto them is not right or helpful.

[Reggie]

WhiteFlower, you have insufficient info to assess her situation. You are projecting like crazy, for some reason.

[lkjh]

1. Go ahead and put words in my mouth. Again, I said there is always a reason someone opens their mind to an A. If you can't see that, it could happen to you.

 

2. And I did not persuade her. I showed her what her H was up to.

 

3. Children never came up in our discussion.

 

4. I don't believe the BH in this case cared for his W. So she found someone to care. Wrong or right, this is what she sought.

 

5. We can agree on number five. Cheating is a choice. Being treated like **** by your spouse is not. Some pretend and others don't. All I ever did on this thread was try to understand the reason behind her choice.

 

1. I did not put words into your mouth.

 

2. showing someone something they didn't ask for is persuading them.

 

3. Yes they did. Post #127 I wrote "Every single characteristic that has been shared has shown her to be a greedy and decitful person who will use anything to get ahead..........even her children. Which is what this entire thread is about." All you focused on was the part about her spreading her legs. Maybe next time you should read everything not just what you want

 

4. You disregarded all of her cheating lying and disrespect. and put the blame on the H. You don't respond to the fact that she has cheated for 25% of her marriage and possibly more. You simply say he doesn't care for her

 

5. You can not possible understand the reason because you honestly believe people are pushed to cheat. You don't understand that nobody will ever be able to fill 100% someones emotional needs. You don't understand that people need to learn to be happy and accept the fact that they won't have everything they WANT. Not needs, wants.

[lkjh]

Wf, Ikjh is right about one thing, WS'S choose to have the affair, that choice is not made for them. Ikjh, You seem to have a block on compassion. Bad marriages don't end on a time-table, and affair's don't start on one either. People, being people, and therefore fallible, usually allow things to happen to them, rather than Make things happen to them. The tide of emotions are not always stemmed by rational thought. Wf's feelings and SD's feelings are something you don't know about , for you and others to project your own issues onto them is not right or helpful.

 

I disagree with that. Saying someones feelings led them to this behavior is only half true. People digest everything including their feelings and then they make a choice. Yes a brief fling consumed by the heat of passion is one thing but taking part in something that last years needs thought. At one point you have to stop blaming your emotions and realize you are making this happen. Not some hormone you can't control.

[Ronni_W]

I LOVED being in love with her. I LOVED loving her. Looked forward to loving her the rest of her life. ... But, alas, here we are.

Stamp,

I must be totally dense -- I can't figure out WHY you are "here"? Is it because she is not doing her divorce the way you want/expected that she "should"? Because she's doing her divorce in a way that you believe/think she "should not"?

 

I heard you say that currently you "don't know where she is" -- is your perspective about that also because you're holding her accountable to YOUR personal values and standards?

 

Or am I just being too dense here?

[norajane]

It doesnt matter if WF is tying her sitch into this one, that is how SHE sees it, not me. I have never said bad things about the BH here, and I have also never said that MW did either. NEVER. And of course MW didnt take lunch to H, or invite him out, I get that. She had ME to do that for. I understand this.

 

I'm not buying the "her H never took a day off, or half day off, for her" crap.

 

HE was the one taking care of the kids while she was off playing golf with you every weekend. That sounds like a day off work to me. However, she chose not to spend those days with him, or with him and their children as a family. When he WAS there for her, she wasn't there for him. So, why should he have taken more days off...so she could have had more time with you?

 

Imagine if she had put half the effort into making her H feel loved, as she did making you feel loved. Perhaps that could have contributed to saving their marriage more than her half-hearted attempts at MC. Perhaps not. But directing her attention toward you all those years certainly did not HELP their marriage, or her relationship with their children.

 

I'm sure he contributed to the demise of their marriage in some ways. But if she was so unhappy, then leaving him should have been an option she should have considered and acted on. Conversely, if she was so happy being with YOU, then she could have left to BE with you since you made it abundantly clear that you wanted her to. Yet, she chose not to.

 

Ultimately, she did not choose to leave her husband so really, how terrible could he have been to her? If he hadn't filed for divorce, she'd still be with him right now.

[stampdaddy]

I'm not buying the "her H never took a day off, or half day off, for her" crap.

 

HE was the one taking care of the kids while she was off playing golf with you every weekend. That sounds like a day off work to me. However, she chose not to spend those days with him, or with him and their children as a family. When he WAS there for her, she wasn't there for him. So, why should he have taken more days off...so she could have had more time with you?

 

Imagine if she had put half the effort into making her H feel loved, as she did making you feel loved. Perhaps that could have contributed to saving their marriage more than her half-hearted attempts at MC. Perhaps not. But directing her attention toward you all those years certainly did not HELP their marriage, or her relationship with their children.

 

I'm sure he contributed to the demise of their marriage in some ways. But if she was so unhappy, then leaving him should have been an option she should have considered and acted on. Conversely, if she was so happy being with YOU, then she could have left to BE with you since you made it abundantly clear that you wanted her to. Yet, she chose not to.

 

Ultimately, she did not choose to leave her husband so really, how terrible could he have been to her? If he hadn't filed for divorce, she'd still be with him right now.

 

OK, NJ..

again, all I am stating is what I am aware of.. I agree that IF she would have out forth the effort that she was putting into me, yada, yada, yada. Oh, and quit saying we played golf every weekend, it was like 8 times a year

 

How about this? the 17 plus years BEFORE ME? What happened then? She never painted him to ba a bad guy, can we all get that straight? It is very obvious to me that all of the "effort" that she did put into me she had WANTED to do for some time. Why wouldnt one want to put forth that kind of effort into their spouse, UNLESS, something was wrong??? I know a little more about their past than I am willing to share her, and it is all basically just "loveless".

 

It is the fact that you are correct, she would still be there, and the reasons why that is is NOT because of anything more than it not rocking HER boat.. This is one of the many issues I am having at this moment.

[stampdaddy]

Stamp,

I must be totally dense -- I can't figure out WHY you are "here"? Is it because she is not doing her divorce the way you want/expected that she "should"? Because she's doing her divorce in a way that you believe/think she "should not"?

 

I heard you say that currently you "don't know where she is" -- is your perspective about that also because you're holding her accountable to YOUR personal values and standards?

 

Or am I just being too dense here?

 

not dense, but it is not soley for the way she is handling the divorce, but it is a spoke in the wheel. Of course I am disappointed with what is happening, but it is none of my business. I did make it my business when we talked last, right or wrong, because what she is doing IS wrong. I had my say, and I will be right in the end, they will end up with Joint but with a court fight, wasted money out the wazoo and hate for eachother. And who suffers the most. I love her and them so why wouldnt I try to step up to the plate and stop this from happening?

 

I dont think I am holding her accountable to my personal standards, but sh*t, there ARE standards she should be looking at, HERS! And I dont thinks she is. Does that make sense? I mean, I know this woman pretty well, I mean, I knew her pretty well, I DONT know "this" woman at all....

[Ronni_W]

she would still be there, and the reasons why that is is NOT because of anything more than it not rocking HER boat.

Hugs, stamp.

I do get that piece of it -- she did not willingly and knowingly choose you.

Is there some part, then, that felt/feels she ought to "prove" that she really, really, really wants to be with you...so it set-up all these "tests" for her, which she kept/keeps "failing"?

 

But maybe just because she refuses to do her divorce "your way" doesn't mean that she does NOT want to be with you? Maybe she just feels that she has the right to self-determine about her children and her ex and her divorce?

 

I'm also getting that you were/are so adamant about how to set-up custody is to minimize/alleviate your own guilt about what's going on in their lives, to which you did contribute -- is that accurate?

I mean, apart from believing that "your way" about custody is the ONLY "right/proper" way that will best serve the children's highest good (which again, this is my interpretation of what you seem to be thinking, about that -- I'm aware it could be my MISinterpretation.)

 

Regardless, it does still suck if the person we love more than anything does not knowingly and willingly choose us. I am sorry that you had to experience that.

[stampdaddy]

Hugs, stamp.

I do get that piece of it -- she did not willingly and knowingly choose you.

Is there some part, then, that felt/feels she ought to "prove" that she really, really, really wants to be with you...so it set-up all these "tests" for her, which she kept/keeps "failing"?

 

But maybe just because she refuses to do her divorce "your way" doesn't mean that she does NOT want to be with you? Maybe she just feels that she has the right to self-determine about her children and her ex and her divorce?

 

I'm also getting that you were/are so adamant about how to set-up custody is to minimize/alleviate your own guilt about what's going on in their lives, to which you did contribute -- is that accurate?

I mean, apart from believing that "your way" about custody is the ONLY "right/proper" way that will best serve the children's highest good (which again, this is my interpretation of what you seem to be thinking, about that -- I'm aware it could be my MISinterpretation.)

 

Regardless, it does still suck if the person we love more than anything does not knowingly and willingly choose us. I am sorry that you had to experience that.

 

It's not MY WAY that is the factor here. The issue is simply this: I personally know what it feels like to receive papers stating to everybody on the planet that I DO NOT have any legal or physical rights to my children, that the mother has those SOLE rights. It is such a devestating event. Of course, in my case, after 24 hours my exW saw that this was NOT the right thing to do for any of us.. So, she changed it on her own, and told her attorney to go to hell for "looking out for her best interest" by using our son as a "bargaining chip".

 

I have personally had to calm a neighbor down when he received the same papers about 4 months ago. I thought he was going to die he was so upset. AGAIN, this changed after 2 months of a WAR between them, and he HATES her now for doing that.

 

In MW's case, the H doesnt deserve this to happen to him. He has lost enough, and to receive this dagger to the soul, just because her attorney said he is looking out for her best interest and telling her that "we can always come back to this, AFTER we get what we want"?!?!? I mean, what the hell is that? Please tell me you understand this? Please tell me that you see that I dont care and havent mentioned word one about ANYTHING else regarding THEIR divorce. I just feel that this is SO WRONG to do to him, OR anybody THAT DOESNT DESERVE TO LOSE THEIR CHILDREN!

 

And he, the BH, DOES NOT deserve to lose his children....

[lkjh]

OK, NJ..

again, all I am stating is what I am aware of.. I agree that IF she would have out forth the effort that she was putting into me, yada, yada, yada. Oh, and quit saying we played golf every weekend, it was like 8 times a year

 

How about this? the 17 plus years BEFORE ME? What happened then? She never painted him to ba a bad guy, can we all get that straight? It is very obvious to me that all of the "effort" that she did put into me she had WANTED to do for some time. Why wouldnt one want to put forth that kind of effort into their spouse, UNLESS, something was wrong??? I know a little more about their past than I am willing to share her, and it is all basically just "loveless".

 

It is the fact that you are correct, she would still be there, and the reasons why that is is NOT because of anything more than it not rocking HER boat.. This is one of the many issues I am having at this moment.

 

 

How do you really know that. You have seen her lie in so many times, don't you think that it is possible that she has lied before? Couldn't she have cheated before and just lied about it?

 

I have seen girls that lie and don't even realize it. I was talking to a girl a little while back and when I ask her about her # she gave a small one but when her sister called her out on it she said........"some of the guys didn't count". She honestly believed this. Don't you think that it is possible that the MW has somethings in her past that you don't know about out

[NoIDidn't]

Hugs, stamp.

I do get that piece of it -- she did not willingly and knowingly choose you.

Is there some part, then, that felt/feels she ought to "prove" that she really, really, really wants to be with you...so it set-up all these "tests" for her, which she kept/keeps "failing"?

 

 

I don't think she wants to be with him. She didn't want the divorce and now she's covering her a$$ because she is in denial that she had a five year affair.

 

I wouldn't bother speaking to a person that treated me like that ever again, love or not. Some disrespect a person should never tolerate.

 

I do agree with the others though, that WF is projecting things onto this woman and her H that she really has no idea about. When one has to consider the truth, what's being said by the cheater through the cheater's helper is typically not true or to be believed unless one can verify it for themselves. Being on the internet means we can't verify it so we shouldn't assume the BH is some horrible monster that deserves to be cheated on. Heck, the facts of the case prove otherwise - the woman didn't even want to leave him. She's mad she's getting divorced. That's saying something.

[stampdaddy]

How do you really know that. You have seen her lie in so many times, don't you think that it is possible that she has lied before? Couldn't she have cheated before and just lied about it?

 

I have seen girls that lie and don't even realize it. I was talking to a girl a little while back and when I ask her about her # she gave a small one but when her sister called her out on it she said........"some of the guys didn't count". She honestly believed this. Don't you think that it is possible that the MW has somethings in her past that you don't know about out

 

sure it is possible. But I doubt it. timelines support that this is the case. timelines to the tee. you would take this risk in ANY relationship, now wouldnt you? she is not a serial cheater if that is what you are eluding to.

[Ronni_W]

why wouldnt I try to step up to the plate and stop this from happening?

That is one of my "personal codes of conduct", too, so I TOTALLY get it.

Like you, I had to learn the really hard way that there is a huge difference between helping others see their own Truth and Light, and bashing and bulldozing them with MY version of "truth and light". For me, it was my Lesson in humility.

 

what she is doing IS wrong. I had my say, and I will be right in the end,

That's the part that makes me sad: Instead of being/staying her compassionate and understanding lover/supporter/friend, you somehow allowed yourself to take on the roles of her accuser, judge, jury and executioner.

 

It's as if you chose "being right" over being compassionate and supportive. That's what it LOOKS like from the outside, I mean...NOT that is necessarily what you intended, or what was going on in your mind and heart.

 

Her boat DID get rocked in a most violent manner. That is, and will always be, separate and apart from her love for, and life with, you. How it comes across is that you forgot the person who had been tossed, against her will, into chaos. And that it happened to her because she had, for five years, chosen you.

 

IMHO, under the complex and emotion-filled circumstances, it would have been okay for you to cut her some slack about you perceived/perceive as her "misplaced values". I humbly suggest that THAT may have been for the highest good of all concerned.

And there is still time, if you wanted to go along a path that looks more like this

[stampdaddy]

I don't think she wants to be with him. She didn't want the divorce and now she's covering her a$$ because she is in denial that she had a five year affair.

 

I wouldn't bother speaking to a person that treated me like that ever again, love or not. Some disrespect a person should never tolerate.

 

I do agree with the others though, that WF is projecting things onto this woman and her H that she really has no idea about. When one has to consider the truth, what's being said by the cheater through the cheater's helper is typically not true or to be believed unless one can verify it for themselves. Being on the internet means we can't verify it so we shouldn't assume the BH is some horrible monster that deserves to be cheated on. Heck, the facts of the case prove otherwise - the woman didn't even want to leave him. She's mad she's getting divorced. That's saying something.

 

Yeah, it IS saying something! It is saying that she doesnt want HER world to change. That world is that she now has a husband that avoids her like the plague. Leaves early for the gym, then goes to work, works late, takes a class here and there, ALL WHILE SHE stays at home, goes to lunch with the girls, doesnt have to get a job, doesnt have to find a new place, doesnt have the "stigma", doesnt have to tell her family and friends, doesnt have to own that she DID have a relationship, WITH ME! Why would she want a divorce? Why wouldnt she want the status quo?

 

As far as wanting me? maybe, maybe not. BUT, keep in mind, she wasnt just gonna move in. ALL of these other things were going to happen to HER, way before we would ever be together...

[NoIDidn't]

That is one of my "personal codes of conduct", too, so I TOTALLY get it.

Like you, I had to learn the really hard way that there is a huge difference between helping others see their own Truth and Light, and bashing and bulldozing them with MY version of "truth and light". For me, it was my Lesson in humility.

 

 

That's the part that makes me sad: Instead of being/staying her compassionate and understanding lover/supporter/friend, you somehow allowed yourself to take on the roles of her accuser, judge, jury and executioner.

 

It's as if you chose "being right" over being compassionate and supportive. That's what it LOOKS like from the outside, I mean...NOT that is necessarily what you intended, or what was going on in your mind and heart.

 

Her boat DID get rocked in a most violent manner. That is, and will always be, separate and apart from her love for, and life with, you. How it comes across is that you forgot the person who had been tossed, against her will, into chaos. And that it happened to her because she had, for five years, chosen you.

 

IMHO, under the complex and emotion-filled circumstances, it would have been okay for you to cut her some slack about you perceived/perceive as her "misplaced values". I humbly suggest that THAT may have been for the highest good of all concerned.

And there is still time, if you wanted to go along a path that looks more like this

 

Actually, your post made me think of something. That maybe Stamp is concerned about the children because, subconciously, he doesn't want to deal with custody drama if/when he gets her permanently.

 

That is usually the reason that we help people that are close to us. We do it to help make our lifes and interactions with them easier.

 

Either way, I have no issue with his reasons, just with the fact that she is deliberately dragging the kids through the mud because her H is justifiably divorcing her lying you-know-what.

[stampdaddy]

That is one of my "personal codes of conduct", too, so I TOTALLY get it.

Like you, I had to learn the really hard way that there is a huge difference between helping others see their own Truth and Light, and bashing and bulldozing them with MY version of "truth and light". For me, it was my Lesson in humility.

 

 

That's the part that makes me sad: Instead of being/staying her compassionate and understanding lover/supporter/friend, you somehow allowed yourself to take on the roles of her accuser, judge, jury and executioner.

 

It's as if you chose "being right" over being compassionate and supportive. That's what it LOOKS like from the outside, I mean...NOT that is necessarily what you intended, or what was going on in your mind and heart.

 

Her boat DID get rocked in a most violent manner. That is, and will always be, separate and apart from her love for, and life with, you. How it comes across is that you forgot the person who had been tossed, against her will, into chaos. And that it happened to her because she had, for five years, chosen you.

 

IMHO, under the complex and emotion-filled circumstances, it would have been okay for you to cut her some slack about you perceived/perceive as her "misplaced values". I humbly suggest that THAT may have been for the highest good of all concerned.

And there is still time, if you wanted to go along a path that looks more like this

 

First, this isnt neccessarily "against her will", as she had MANY opportunities to have things go differently...

 

Please remember, it is not as much because of her "choice" to follow along with the attorney's game. That IS her choice. I was disappointed, sure. I am STILL disappointed. I AM VERY FEARFUL of what may come next" her husband VOWED to fight her for SOLE if she did this, he said as much that same day, yet, she still chose this path. Think about it, how does a husband fight for Sole? tap, tap, tap... THEY TRY TO PROVE THE MOTHER UNFIT, right? they drag everything out into court. They supeona people, ME, friends, who knows who else. They supeona phone records, receipts etc. And like I said earlier, I am a big boy, if I get supeonaed, I will go, but what happens then? Does she perjur herself?

 

ALSO, it was the Jeckl and Hyde moment too that has me, what, a week and a half later, still reeling. I can get over it, I WILL get over it. I am sure my "compassion" will return, but it will be from afar.

[stampdaddy]

Actually, your post made me think of something. That maybe Stamp is concerned about the children because, subconciously, he doesn't want to deal with custody drama if/when he gets her permanently.

 

That is usually the reason that we help people that are close to us. We do it to help make our lifes and interactions with them easier.

 

Either way, I have no issue with his reasons, just with the fact that she is deliberately dragging the kids through the mud because her H is justifiably divorcing her lying you-know-what.

 

 

thank you!!

[Reggie]

Stamp, as has beenpointed out repeatedly, you have no firsthand knowledge re the previous 17 years(not that it matters). I cannot understand why you are so willing to accept her version of the truth in light of her dishonesty during the affari.

Surely, you've researched this enough to understand the re-writing marital history pehnomena.

I have no doubt that my XWW has a different take on what went on in our marriage. Clearly, neither of us was happy toward the end. We had no physical relationship for two years. I admit, I shut down in that area and just stopped trying.

But, I expect she leaves out the part about consistently rejecting my overtures, insisting our kids sleep in our bed, and telling me I am like a woman and have no dick or balls.

Yeah, that stuff killed my desire. It was just too scary for me to be intimate with her.

You've been given a window into her true persona. She cheated for 5 years. She is vindictive in the custody issue. So, why beleive anything she says, despite timelines. The relationship was, undoubtedly, bad for some time. But, have you thought about the possibility that she was the main reason for this.

I wonder if WF has thought about this, as well. Seems whenever a wife cheats, she feels it goes back to some neglect or deficiency on the BH's part. With you not painting her H as a bad guy, I wonder where she comes up with that.

[Ronni_W]

the H doesnt deserve this to happen to him. ... I just feel that this is SO WRONG to do to him ... he, the BH, DOES NOT deserve to lose his children....

I get that you are ALSO trying to look out for her ex, albeit at a rather late stage in his marriage. But your recently-discovered care and concern for HIM has come at her expense.

 

You knowingly and willingly became and, for five years, remained HER LOVER; her affair partner. That sort of precludes you from ALSO being able to act in the best interest of her children and (former) spouse now that her marriage has gone south, to which you contributed it going south.

Your need/desire to all-of-a-sudden advocate on behalf of the children and HIM is pointing to your own currently-misplaced values, is it not?

 

My gut is still saying it is/was your guilt-reaction that motivated you to want HER to act in ways that are most noble and comfortable for HIM. Why else would you all-of-a-sudden be that aware and concerned about what HE does and does not deserve?

 

NOT that I don't have compassion for what he is going, and will go, through as a divorcing man, spouse and dad. I most certainly do. But you were HER lover, not his.

[norajane]

How about this? the 17 plus years BEFORE ME? What happened then?

 

I don't know! And neither do you. Because you only have her version of what actually happened in their family all those years. And surely you can see how the version she's told you might not actually be what happened. Because she doesn't want to look like the bad guy.

 

Whatever their marriage was like, she didn't want to leave her H and didn't seem to have any qualms about leaving her kids with her H while she went to be with you - for years and years.

 

Whatever happened then, she didn't leave him and he didn't leave her. She started an affair that lasted years and she still didn't leave him. He found out about the affair and she still didn't leave him and he gave her another chance. You were waiting with open arms and she still didn't leave him. So maybe he wasn't the bad guy, maybe?

 

Now she's worried what the neighbors and family will think if they find out about her affair, and if she doesn't get sole custody, and if she doesn't get the house, so she's leaving a slew of damaged people in her wake, including her kids, because she still doesn't want to look like the bad guy.

 

If she had really wanted to change anything, SHE COULD HAVE. She had over 20 years to do something.

 

So maybe he wasn't the bad guy, yeah?

[stampdaddy]

I get that you are ALSO trying to look out for her ex, albeit at a rather late stage in his marriage. But your recently-discovered care and concern for HIM has come at her expense.

 

You knowingly and willingly became and, for five years, remained HER LOVER; her affair partner. That sort of precludes you from ALSO being able to act in the best interest of her children and (former) spouse now that her marriage has gone south, to which you contributed it going south.

Your need/desire to all-of-a-sudden advocate on behalf of the children and HIM is pointing to your own currently-misplaced values, is it not?

 

My gut is still saying it is/was your guilt-reaction that motivated you to want HER to act in ways that are most noble and comfortable for HIM. Why else would you all-of-a-sudden be that aware and concerned about what HE does and does not deserve?

 

NOT that I don't have compassion for what he is going, and will go, through as a divorcing man, spouse and dad. I most certainly do. But you were HER lover, not his.

 

As I said to her: "some things are just this simple". There is a RIGHT way to go about this, especially since he, the BH, wasnt trying to take the children away from their cheating mother of 5 years, right? He was taking the "high road", right? So why should she, who has already done enough damage (yes, and me too) take the lowest of low roads? WHY?

 

Do I feel guilty? Sure I do. Is it my driving force with this? NO. It is just that simple, do the right thing for once, and DO NOT use your children as pawns. I dont understand what is so hard to see about that. Why does this have to be so compicated with a 1000 "hidden agendas" behind everything??

[stampdaddy]

I don't know! And neither do you. Because you only have her version of what actually happened in their family all those years. And surely you can see how the version she's told you might not actually be what happened. Because she doesn't want to look like the bad guy.

 

Whatever their marriage was like, she didn't want to leave her H and didn't seem to have any qualms about leaving her kids with her H while she went to be with you - for years and years.

 

Whatever happened then, she didn't leave him and he didn't leave her. She started an affair that lasted years and she still didn't leave him. He found out about the affair and she still didn't leave him and he gave her another chance. You were waiting with open arms and she still didn't leave him. So maybe he wasn't the bad guy, maybe?

 

Now she's worried what the neighbors and family will think if they find out about her affair, and if she doesn't get sole custody, and if she doesn't get the house, so she's leaving a slew of damaged people in her wake, including her kids, because she still doesn't want to look like the bad guy.

 

If she had really wanted to change anything, SHE COULD HAVE. She had over 20 years to do something.

 

So maybe he wasn't the bad guy, yeah?

 

I have NEVER, EVER said he was. And the 17 years before? I have NEVER said I know it all, dont really care. Those years were theirs. I am, however, just like all of my intelligent peers here on this thread, ABLE to add things up a little. I never held things as concrete. I always thought that ANY relationship is 50/50, especially those where there is no abuse. I have ALWAYS thought with them it was 50/50. Bad communication, lack of interest, no affection towards the other, growing apart, whatever. Doesnt make either one of them "the bad guy", UNTIL, she takes off and has an affair. Now SHE is the bad guy. And as far as not leaving, I have already covered that. WHY WOULD SHE?

[OldEurope]

Your Royal Stampness,

 

Not to interrupt the fun here, but if you already have answered this somewhere, apologies for missing it....

 

Has the lady at any point "in all of this" said that she WOULD like to live with you/marry one day/ride off into the sunset together?....

 

Or are sentiments for the time being buried beneath the rubble?

 

As ever curious,

 

Your humble subject,

 

OE

 

re: message....aye aye, captain...