This Book is complete

[White Flower]

Of course people from good homes with kids cheat. Where on earth did you come up with the idea it never happens? Haven't you been reading?Personality disordered types do this all the time.

I didn't say they didn't; I said they did it for a reason.

 

And there need no personality disorder in order to step out either.

[Reggie]

Of course Stamp was instrumental in the breakup of the family. So was the MW. These concepts are not mutually exclusive. Stamp, himself, will admit he was part of the cause.

No one on this board, including Stamp, has obtained info re the husband's efforts from a reliable source. Stamps info is all from the MW, a habitual liar. Folks like this woman, longtime serial cheaters, cannot be helped.

[White Flower]

Of course Stamp was instrumental in the breakup of the family. So was the MW. These concepts are not mutually exclusive. Stamp, himself, will admit he was part of the cause.

No one on this board, including Stamp, has obtained info re the husband's efforts from a reliable source. Stamps info is all from the MW, a habitual liar. Folks like this woman, longtime serial cheaters, cannot be helped.

Well you can't know that. Perhaps he has and just won't post it. Maybe he is more gentlemanly than you think, but that's OK. Again the main point is that nobody cheats without a reason (serial cheaters exempt, of course.) I'm not sure a one-time affair of five years qualifies as serial cheating. Serial cheaters start cheating as early as they start having sex, but that is another subject.

 

I hate to think there is no help for anyone, including cheaters of five years. If people can't change, then let's just burn down all the prisons and detention centers.

 

So many people post here in order to get help; for what? To change of course! I know not all will change but I believe most of us are put here on this planet to grow (change) in some fashion.

[norajane]

You are right about that, the problem could lie completely on the side of the wife in this story. SHE may be the problem in the marriage but if she is/was, then why didn't her wonderful, innocent H figure that out and get her help years ago? Probably because he was gone all the time, workaholic that he sounds like.

 

Maybe because she'd been practicing her lies and deception for years and had become really good at it?

 

If I recall correctly, it was her H who was caring for the children while she was off golfing with stamp every weekend. And if she had time to live a double life with stamp, but he's never met her kids, then her H was probably caring for them while she was with stamp many other times as well. So, perhaps H was a workaholic (though I don't recall stamp saying so), but it doesn't sound like she spent much time at home, either. So, she's no mommy of the year, or 5 years, either.

 

What I'm saying is, there's plenty of blame to go around, but do not lose sight of the fact that this woman is not an innocent and yes, she played her husband for a fool. And it's the children she's using now as a bargaining chip in the divorce.

 

Whatever their marital problems were, she chose an affair, deception and lying, rather than dealing with those problems with her husband, one way or another. She did not file for divorce. She preferred staying with her husband and having stamp, too. That's why she continued the affair while "trying" marriage counseling. So I fail to see what kind of help her husband could have offered her when her idea of a solution was to stay married and enjoy the home and income her husband provided, while continuing an affair for as long as stamp would go along with it.

[stampdaddy]

Maybe because she'd been practicing her lies and deception for years and had become really good at it?

 

If I recall correctly, it was her H who was caring for the children while she was off golfing with stamp every weekend. And if she had time to live a double life with stamp, but he's never met her kids, then her H was probably caring for them while she was with stamp many other times as well. So, perhaps H was a workaholic (though I don't recall stamp saying so), but it doesn't sound like she spent much time at home, either. So, she's no mommy of the year, or 5 years, either.

 

What I'm saying is, there's plenty of blame to go around, but do not lose sight of the fact that this woman is not an innocent and yes, she played her husband for a fool. And it's the children she's using now as a bargaining chip in the divorce.

 

Whatever their marital problems were, she chose an affair, deception and lying, rather than dealing with those problems with her husband, one way or another. She did not file for divorce. She preferred staying with her husband and having stamp, too. That's why she continued the affair while "trying" marriage counseling. So I fail to see what kind of help her husband could have offered her when her idea of a solution was to stay married and enjoy the home and income her husband provided, while continuing an affair for as long as stamp would go along with it.

 

you are 100% right and I was 100% a FOOL.. ahhh clarity. Please dont read into this that I am OK with being "free", couldnt be further from the truth. I am VERY sad that THIS is the reality of it all... BUT, I tried my hardest and I am OK with that. Nothing I can do now, but move on with my life and pray for us all...

[tami-chan]

It made me SICK! If it fed anything, it fed my doubt! How is that, Tami?

 

Did it? but still you stayed and waited and hoped....

[stampdaddy]

Did it? but still you stayed and waited and hoped....

 

I did, didnt I?

[tami-chan]

I did, didnt I?

 

 

Apparently- until the moment when it actually counts...although...I am of the camp who thinks this saga is not yet over....

[Reggie]

Norajane makes an excellent point. MC is a complete waste of time if there is an active affair going on. Sounds like the H was participating in good faith but with the W cheating, MC was not going to do any good.

This guy was played for a foll for 5 years, exposed to STDs , potentially, and fooled into subsidizing the affair. He watched the kids and contributed to the family income, some of which was being siphoned off toward the affair. His time was siphoned off, as well, so they could be together.

Stamp, do you consider that there was some tangible theft going on in this manner, in addition to the betrayal?

[stampdaddy]

Stamp, do you consider that there was some tangible theft going on in this manner, in addition to the betrayal?

 

Reg, are you talking about "time" being "taken or stolen"? Do you mean any money that she may have spent on me?

 

depends on how you look at it I guess, and I didnt look at it. I will let you guys kick it around

[lkjh]

I gotta laugh at this:p. HE did not split up THEIR home! THEY split up their home.

 

I am not saying it is ok to start an affair during the M at all when I say that; YET, the marriage was badly broken beyond belief for the WS to even THINK of stepping out on her H. This is widely understood, isn't it?

 

Blaming the OP for splitting up a family is so 17th century. We understand things now, like the world is round!

 

I am not being mean to you when I say this.

 

And what about forgiveness? Why hasn't the BS in this case sat his W down and said, 'Look, I forgive you for looking outside the M when I was such an a$$ all those years. Please, let's work this out. If I can forgive you for 5 years of cheating, can you forgive me for 20 years of cheating your heart out of affection, kindness, consideration, help, respect for all that you do?'

 

This can and does happen. Why hasn't the BS done so in this case? Maybe because he is too STUBBORN? MEAN? HARSH? SELFISH? UNWILLING? Maybe he is a narcissist? Can YOU live with someone like that? I think not because that would be too much comptetion, I suspect.

 

Of course, I don't know him and I could be entirely wrong about this man. But NOBODY lives in a beautiful home and raises four beautiful children as a stay-at-home mother and steps out on the M FOR NO REASON. NOBODY.

 

 

Your entire post is way off. First off we do not have it all figured out now, there is a reason why 50% of marriages end in divorce. If anything we know less now than people in the past.

 

First off, yes he does carry some of the blame, not a 100% of it but some of it. He could have easily said no I will not get involved with a married woman. Instead he carried on a affair for several years. These things just don't happen. People are in control of their life and they decide what they will and won't do.

 

Second, happy spouse's can and do cheat. Why in the world should the H try to stay with his wife when she has been cheating for years. Lied to him several times about ending the affair, and even carried it on during MC. Re-read the threads, the H already tried to save his marriage he finally had enough.

 

Why are you so quick to blame this guy for his wife spreading her legs. If her life was actually as bad are you tried to make it out she could have divorced him or actually tried MC without a affair. In case you haven't followed the the story the H has forgiven her before and tried to work it out but stamp and the wife just continued the affair, they just got more sneaky about it. The H finally had enough.

 

You can only forgive someone so many times. Eventually you realize the person will not change and you have to let them go.

 

There is something wrong with your wiring if you honestly believe its the bs's fault. You are actually looking for reasons to blame the H, you even ignored the fact that he has already done the things you said he should do. Which is forgive his wife and try to work on their marriage. Unfortunately she just carried on with her old behavior.

[NoIDidn't]

True again, I agree. But I have heard nothing in THIS story so far that even points ONCE to the BH having provided any help to the WW in any fashion. I believe I read that he ATTEMPTED counseling on three separate visits spanning over a long period and never stuck to any of it.

 

Sorry, that is not really trying IMHO.

 

Somehow I still see this as blaming the BH.

 

Would you continue counselling when you keep finding evidence that your spouse is still cheating on you and lying in counselling? Would you continue counselling when its obvious that your spouse is only going through the motions to appease you?

 

Not to mention, didn't the MW decide not to continue counselling? It was my understanding that SHE is the one who called it quits on counselling. This man was clearly trying to save his marriage. Stamp wanted it over and was still in the A waiting for her to leave him. She didn't want a divorce but now has to deal with one. Poor, poor, cheating MW is getting divorced for not being faithful to her marriage and now she wants make it look like she is somehow the victim.

 

I think some women rush in to defend other women (as in, just another woman nothing affairish about it, lol) too quickly. She made her bed. Now she gets to lie in it.

[White Flower]

To lkhj,

 

Visiting a counselor once, twice, even three times does NOT consist of trying. Going to a counselor for as long as the counselor sees that the M has improved is trying. I think you are standing up for a man due to the 'man code' you live by. Otherwise, you would not refer to this MW as someone who 'spread her legs' for Stamp. She actually 'made love' to a man she loves, pure and simple. You don't have to agree that is right or wrong, but this wasn't a hooker or a slut who 'spreads her legs' for just anyone; this was a woman who fell in love.

 

But guys like you tend to believe a man owns a woman's parts and when she shares those parts with others for love (or not) your kind gets all indignant about it. Just curious as to how you would describe a man about town who picks up on a girl. How would you describe his sexual behavior? I'll bet it isn't as derogatory as the line you use about women.

 

Norajane,

 

I agree that Stamp's girl lied and deceived. I was talking about a post where someone suggested the MW could have some psychological disorder. If she does, then why does the BH have to toss her aside for cheating? Why doesn't he look for the root cause of it such as a personality disorder, depression, NPD, whatever? He hasn't suggested she check in to a psychiatrist as far as we know either and so I have every right to assume he is not doing what he can to look into the reasons why the A started in the first place.

 

And finally, NID, no I wouldn't continue getting counseling if I saw evidence of continued cheating, although I suppose it would depend on how long the cheating continued and if I thought my S.O. was making a serious attempt at ending his behavior.

 

And yes, I do see blame on the part of the BH for the demise of the M. Not saying he deserved the complication of the A, but he does deserve a D for not being a better H. No way do I believe he was a perfect angel of a H. No way.

 

None of us know the entire story with all the details. I think Stamp is very careful not to include TMI. When I first read his story I so sided with this MW because I kept getting the feeling her H was just like mine. If he is anything like my exH I believe this MW was in deep, deep pain from the neglect and emotional abuse she must have suffered from a man who could care less that she cried herself to sleep at night for years. No, I don't agree she should have stepped out before ending her M. No I don't agree that she should have lied (we don't know she lied) in counseling. No I don't agree on so many things she has done throughout all of this. But I do know beyond anything else that THIS MW turned to the arms of another man because her HUSBAND was NOT there for her. He did not fulfill his duty as a real man; he was lacking in everything except a paycheck. Husbands need to be more than just a paycheck. He needs, we all need, to recognize this.

 

Stamp, I am SO sorry for going off on your thread. I just can't stand it when stone-throwers still exist in the 21st century. I hate it when people can't see a woman who cried for 20 years, a good woman. They only see the deed she did after the crying was over. Such a shame.

[Reggie]

You could not know anything of the sort, WhiteFlower. Your cheating on your husband was not justified and you are projecting his alleged (doubtful) qualities onto this particular H.

[stampdaddy]

Somehow I still see this as blaming the BH.

 

Would you continue counselling when you keep finding evidence that your spouse is still cheating on you and lying in counselling? Would you continue counselling when its obvious that your spouse is only going through the motions to appease you?

 

Not to mention, didn't the MW decide not to continue counselling? It was my understanding that SHE is the one who called it quits on counselling. This man was clearly trying to save his marriage. Stamp wanted it over and was still in the A waiting for her to leave him. She didn't want a divorce but now has to deal with one. Poor, poor, cheating MW is getting divorced for not being faithful to her marriage and now she wants make it look like she is somehow the victim.

 

I think some women rush in to defend other women (as in, just another woman nothing affairish about it, lol) too quickly. She made her bed. Now she gets to lie in it.

 

Just let me clarify a few things so you guys can keep arguing..

 

Counselling was BEFORE the affair, during the affair BUT not after the affair was found out. HE called it quits because he didnt think they needed it. When they went after the affair started, she was hoping that h would see that the Marriage wasnt working (I agree, this was chicken s*it, to have a counsellor tell him instead of her).

[Chrome Barracuda]

Bullchit WF this man was probably nothing like your ex husband. Your projecting the negative qualities onto this man, who you dont know from adam. You havent heard anything about him beating her or abusing her.

 

You need to understand that the husband is the victim and the kids are the victim. How can you honestly take the woman's side when she's the one doing other's dirty!

 

That doesnt make any sense.

 

Isnt that how affairs get started? I mean when there's a cheating wife one woman will claim oh her husband takes care of the children and she's such a bitch. See how perceptions change through other's eyes?

 

One thing we know for certain and this is fact is that this woman, is selfish, is trifling , a liar and a deceiver and no good woman or mother. She's been living a double life with another man for what, 5 years?

 

Can you honestly think her husband deserved her BS for 5 years?

 

What if he was doing it, would you think it was ok?

 

P.S. : Stamp he probably got fed up with her crap, you cannot council others while one partner is in the affair. it wont work and it wont help, he is right to finally kick her to the curb.

[Reggie]

Reg, are you talking about "time" being "taken or stolen"? Do you mean any money that she may have spent on me?

 

depends on how you look at it I guess, and I didnt look at it. I will let you guys kick it around

 

Stamp, I cannot quantify the $$ she spent on this affair. Surely, there were some $$ expended.

But, even if not, you guys stole time from her husband. Do you think, but for the subterfuge , he would have subsidized the affair with his services taking care of the kids and contributing to the overhead at home?

Also, consider that had he known, he might have divorced sooner with a chance to meet someone himself sooner.

Same with the MC, if insurance covered it, there were most likely still co-pays. It was a waste of his time and $$ to invest in Mc with an active affair going on.

[stampdaddy]

Stamp, I cannot quantify the $$ she spent on this affair. Surely, there were some $$ expended.

But, even if not, you guys stole time from her husband. Do you think, but for the subterfuge , he would have subsidized the affair with his services taking care of the kids and contributing to the overhead at home?

Also, consider that had he known, he might have divorced sooner with a chance to meet someone himself sooner.

Same with the MC, if insurance covered it, there were most likely still co-pays. It was a waste of his time and $$ to invest in Mc with an active affair going on.

 

I cant argue with any of this whatsoever.... The only 'arguement" I have is this.. In these said 5 years that I witnessed, did BH ever take a day off to spen with her? NO Did he ever take a half day off to spend with her? NO Did he EVER ask her out for lunch? NO Did he ever come home for lunch? NO NO NO... I wont get into the rest of the questions where the answer is NO

[White Flower]

You could not know anything of the sort, WhiteFlower. Your cheating on your husband was not justified and you are projecting his alleged (doubtful) qualities onto this particular H.

What do YOU know about my M???

 

I HAVE projected my exH's attributes to the H of Stamp's MW, I don't deny that. That is my experience, my perspective. We are all here to share OUR perspectives. I admit that.

 

What bad thing can you admit about yourself?

 

I will admit any and every bad thing about myself because I have no fear in doing so. I am very introspective. What can you say about yourself? So far all I've seen is that you're 'perfect'.

 

My exH (since you seem to know him so well) was not really 'cheated on' since I told him our M was over. It was his fault for staying in the house (in a separate room) and not moving on. He moved on from me, but not the position of power he liked holding over my head so much. No, he wasn't done yet. He just wanted to show me he was still the KING, control me still, make me cry more, bla bla bla. Don't pretend that you knew the kind of hell I suffered while living with him. He emotionally abused me Reggie.

 

Oh I could go off on you right now but this is Stamp's thread. At any rate, I did project my exH's attributes onto MW's H. I could totally relate to her at the time Stamp first arrived here at LS. She changed, though, and I've been disappointed a bit. I couldn't have stayed JUST for money as it sort of appears now in Stamp's story (of course we don't know all the details). There would have to have been a lot more there to work with such as repentence (for being an absent H, for being derogatory [in the good times, not now] for not being willing to try harder, etc.)

 

Because when you love someone so much and they look at you with disgust, dishonor, disgrace when you've done nothing wrong, well, you will take love when it comes. I believe this happend to Stamp's girl. And I understand it. If you DON'T understand it, then it COULD happen to you! So please understand this so it doesn't happen to you.

 

And finally, we don't know all the details. You all post as if you do. I am only suggesting that if she had it as bad as I did, then it is understandable that she would fall for someone who had a heart bigger and deeper than the ocean. Where the sun would always shine on her and where the sand would be soft to fall on. Right or wrong, she needed this.

[White Flower]

 

Can you honestly think her husband deserved her BS for 5 years?

 

What if he was doing it, would you think it was ok?

 

Chrome you crack me up, you really do. And I happen to agree with you on so many counts, I really do!

 

Again, yes, I did project but only to make a point. This woman was NEGLECTED in every way a man could neglect his W. I saw it from the very beginning and so I related to her. Wrong or right, a woman has needs just like a man does. Usually men need sex while women need emotional bonding. Stamp's lady probably got her emotional bonding and probably hoped she would never allow it to become physical, but it did.

 

I do see that after 5 years of living a double life she went terribly wrong. She gaslighted her H, Stamp and even worse, HERSELF. She is lost, and needs to find herself. We agree there.

 

I just have a hard time with you people for not AT LEAST wondering how and why her H went wrong; what made her turn to Stamp in the first place. There is always a reason. Sure, it could be ALL her, I am not denying that BUT it could very well be her BH and I suspect it was.

 

And he doesn't have to beat or physically abuse her--neglect alone can cause a woman to turn. (I am actually helping you by writing this, not that you need it.)

 

To answer your question, no, I don't believe her H deserved her BS for 5 years. She should have left him and found someone after the D, or at the very least when she knew she no longer loved him. And no, if he were doing it I don't think it would be OK.

 

But I do understand the reasons why she did it, IF it was anything like my experience. I said IF.

[bentnotbroken]

WF, I am a former neglected BS. Emotional abuse to the point of wanting to commit suicide. Believe me I looked for ways to blame myself. Did I push him to cheat? After months of counseling, both spiritually and psychologically, I became convinced that just like nothing he did pushed me to make the choices I did dot deal with the issues. It was my lack of coping skills that made me want to lash out. I made the choice to take that path. Nothing he could have done would have changed my choices. Only I could change my actions.

 

On the other side of the coin, nothing I did or said made him cheat. That was the decision he made to deal with his issues. His choice. While Stampy was indeed an instrument that added to the issues in her M, and her H definitely contributed to any marital issues, she and she alone made her choices. No one can make you do things that aren't in you. No one can make me kill indescriminently, it is not in me. No one can push me to steal. If I chose to do any of those things, it would be because I justified them in my own mind and felt entitled to the action I chose to take.

 

I really do understand the need to find what's missing somewhere else. It still has to be a choice. I don't understand an A and I probably never will. But years in a hidden relationship strikes me as something is off more than a little. How can you be content with hurting so many for so long?

 

As I have spoken with you privately, I have spoken with Stampy. I believe the purity of both your hearts is real. There is no denying that good people do jacked up stuff, lil ole me included. But at some point the goodness rises to the top and we get it. We really get it and either try to fix the situation, sometimes ineptly, or we walk away with the knowledge and fortitude to never put ourselves in that position again. Whatever it is the BS did or didn't do can only be answered for by the BS. IMHO it is this woman's intent to keep the balls juggling in the air until one or all fall and slap her right between the eyes. Pray that she is able to see clearly the damage she has already caused and the damage she will continue to do if she doesn't change her path.

[White Flower]

WF, I am a former neglected BS. Emotional abuse to the point of wanting to commit suicide. Believe me I looked for ways to blame myself. Did I push him to cheat? After months of counseling, both spiritually and psychologically, I became convinced that just like nothing he did pushed me to make the choices I did dot deal with the issues. It was my lack of coping skills that made me want to lash out. I made the choice to take that path. Nothing he could have done would have changed my choices. Only I could change my actions.

 

On the other side of the coin, nothing I did or said made him cheat. That was the decision he made to deal with his issues. His choice. While Stampy was indeed an instrument that added to the issues in her M, and her H definitely contributed to any marital issues, she and she alone made her choices. No one can make you do things that aren't in you. No one can make me kill indescriminently, it is not in me. No one can push me to steal. If I chose to do any of those things, it would be because I justified them in my own mind and felt entitled to the action I chose to take.

 

I really do understand the need to find what's missing somewhere else. It still has to be a choice. I don't understand an A and I probably never will. But years in a hidden relationship strikes me as something is off more than a little. How can you be content with hurting so many for so long?

 

As I have spoken with you privately, I have spoken with Stampy. I believe the purity of both your hearts is real. There is no denying that good people do jacked up stuff, lil ole me included. But at some point the goodness rises to the top and we get it. We really get it and either try to fix the situation, sometimes ineptly, or we walk away with the knowledge and fortitude to never put ourselves in that position again. Whatever it is the BS did or didn't do can only be answered for by the BS. IMHO it is this woman's intent to keep the balls juggling in the air until one or all fall and slap her right between the eyes. Pray that she is able to see clearly the damage she has already caused and the damage she will continue to do if she doesn't change her path.

Bent, this is a very good post and I appreciate all the points you made. I am grateful that you understand that her H contributed to marital issues and you are right, the choice was HERS to make whether to cheat or not. I fully agree.

 

But agreeing with you does not minimize his contribution to the demize of the M. He was so wrong in the way he treated her (if he was indeed anything like my ex). If she had committed suicide or became numb with anti-depressants the rest of her life would we all be standing and applauding her for having a 'successful marriage'? God, I hope not.

 

And by saying that I am not condoning her having an A; I am just understanding the reasons that drove her to it. I only wish she would have handled it better, fessed up, and moved on to either repair the M or be with Stampy.

[lkjh]

WF, you live in lala land. Earlier you posted that she had everything but obviously she wasn't happy(thats why she cheated) and now in your response to chrome you claim she has been negeleted in every way possible. You are making up a false character to justify what she has done. I am sorry but she did not make love.....she spread her legs for another man. This has nothing to do with man code or wanting to pretend a woman is her mans property. It is the plain and simply truth. I havent seen one thing in any of these post that makes her into a good person. Every single characteristic that has been shared has shown her to be a greedy and decitful person who will use anything to get ahead..........even her children. Which is what this entire thread is about.

 

You are just trying to justify yourself through this post, are you sure your ex was the problem in your relationship? Maybe you were not a good spouse and it was all your fault? After all you were the one that cheated right?

[lkjh]

WF, if you really want to know why a woman like this will cheat on her H I will tell you............. its becaue you can't turn a hoe into a housewife.

 

 

I know everyone is going to get mad about saying something like this but it is the truth.

[lkjh]

Bent, this is a very good post and I appreciate all the points you made. I am grateful that you understand that her H contributed to marital issues and you are right, the choice was HERS to make whether to cheat or not. I fully agree.

 

But agreeing with you does not minimize his contribution to the demize of the M. He was so wrong in the way he treated her (if he was indeed anything like my ex). If she had committed suicide or became numb with anti-depressants the rest of her life would we all be standing and applauding her for having a 'successful marriage'? God, I hope not.

 

And by saying that I am not condoning her having an A; I am just understanding the reasons that drove her to it. I only wish she would have handled it better, fessed up, and moved on to either repair the M or be with Stampy.

 

No you don't understand because for some reason you can not comprehend that people are capable of making their own decisions. You can not see that all women that cheat are not mindless people who need a man to push them in that direction. You can not realize that she is responsible for her own actions just like you were. But the two of you chose to commit adultery and blame others