Best Course of Action to Take?

[Bluebird In My Heart]

I met this man two years ago. He was separated. He said he did not love her. I hadn't been to LS yet...I would become a lurker shortly after everything went up in smoke, to try to sort out what happened.

 

I fell for him, it was at a very vulnerable time in my life. According to him, he did the same, it was a very vulnerable time in his life, and incredibly enough, we managed to find one another.

 

He was so emotionally open to me, or so I thought. I did know he was separated, not divorced yet. I never touched him, never slept with him. Thankfully I never did. I wanted to.

 

Predictably (so says the wiser me today), he went back to her to try to work on it. She left him, this is why they were separated to start with. She left him for another man. They have two small children, twins, Elementary School aged little ones. Little boys. They'd been married 10 years.

 

I was caught completely off guard with everything. Now I know, I never knew, would never, will never know what goes on behind closed doors.

 

He pushed me away, but would never give up on being friends. The problem with this is it became nothing but a whirlwind I was signing up for when we became friends. He would tell me how glad he was because he was "getting his family back". I was happy for him, and reading around I discovered this is simply "the way it is" with men (generally).

 

I tried not to take it personally. I did end up doing that though. Of course. He never knew the pain he put me through.

 

Not until now.

 

I always knew she would leave, or continue her second life with another guy. On some level, did he know it too? Likely. Very likely.

 

I could always tell he had a lot of feelings for me. Love? He says that now. I never stopped loving him. Not for TWO YEARS of being silent, never telling him how I felt, what he put me through - what *I* put *myself* through by staying in his orbit.

 

As time went on, I realized I was in an emotional affair for all intents and purposes. I intentionally went about - inside - I very intentionally tried to kill my love for him. Things would never change, I told myself.

 

For my own sanity I needed to get out.

 

I did. I was healing. Not without some setbacks, but I started to feel a little self-esteem coming back. A little, but I was very grateful for it. I learned a LOT.

 

Fast Forward --- He calls. Out of the blue. The gist? She wants out, she will be out later this year. Physically separated for a year, then divorced at that time.

 

He says he loves me - he loved me, this entire time. I brought up a bunch of times he hurt me, why I doubt everything...he is surprised I am hurt (?!?!?!). He tells me to be open to him, not to have let things go like that, it will only cause resentment. He wants a real relationship with me, unlike the one that is ending, one based an openness, honesty, communication, trust.

 

There's more, but this is getting too long. Sorry about this.

 

I know if I come back to him she will attempt to get him back, this would be typical of her. Also, she asked him the other day if after they are separated, could they date - have family night still?

 

The fact that he has come along and is just now giving me what I needed so, so much from him back *then* is difficult to take. I got abandoned as far as I am concerned.

 

However, he seems sincere. I could go on but don't want to get too lengthy and I am just drained here. I do know he loves me.

 

This post is all over the place. I apologize.

 

I love him just as much now as I did 2 years ago. More, if that is possible.

 

I am however, regaining the sense of self-worth I gave away - and for what, I wonder?

 

I am *torn*. I do believe he is sincere. I do believe he wants something real, and he wants it from me. I do believe he loves me.

 

But I am a bit more cynical now than I used to be, a lot more wary, and it seems he doesn't entirely "get" that. He is starting to, it's starting to sink in.

 

And now I wonder what the future holds. I am afraid of what could happen, I don't want to get blasted again. I would never in a million years think of (maybe) trying this for anyone else. He is an exceptional man.

 

What we are thinking of is: he can call me for now, keep the lines of communication open (we have talked a lot of this stuff through, he is being transparent with me, even when it hurts), when they are apart - to start seeing each other...

 

Could this work? How many ways can this mess up?

 

Mostly I need to ask...what can *I* do to make it work? AND what can *I* do to mess this up?

 

I really could use the voice of experience here. I am lost atm.

[Bluebird In My Heart]

Mods?

 

I wasn't sure where to put this post, so I put it here.

If 'Separation and Divorce' would be better, of course please do move the thread.

 

Thanks - and thanks for all of the work you put into the board!

[wildsoul]

Since you already know the pain of being in an ambivelent back/forth situation, the smartest thing would be to tell him that you are open to dating him after he's divorced and gone through his adjustment phase.

 

Explain that you care for him, but that don't want to be his fall back girl. He needs to progress with his divorce on his own.

 

You don't want to get in a position where you are waiting for him or suffering if he gets back together with her.

[whichwayisup]

Fast Forward --- He calls. Out of the blue. The gist? She wants out, she will be out later this year. Physically separated for a year, then divorced at that time.

 

Things can change and him calling you out of the blue is very selfish of him. Why wouldn't he wait until atleast a FULL year of separation? Or even after he was offically divorced? He isn't thinking of you, he's thinking of himself. I mean, what if you two do get together and in 2 or 3 months he changes his mind and wants to go back home? You are the one who is left out and left alone hurting..

 

Besides, his life is a mess now or will be, that is IF they do separate. They have kids, the house, finances to settle.. He is in NO position to offer you anything, and what he can offer you isn't and shouldn't be enough right now.

 

If you love him, focus on your life, live your life and when the timing is better/right in the future, then date him. Until then, don't get sucked into his life, his impending possible separation/divorce. All it will do is hurt you..

[wildsoul]

BTW, I recommend the book called "Surviving Your Boyfriend's Divorce" by Robyn Todd.

 

Although I don't recommend dating a separated man. I knew I couldn't handle being in an affair, but told my xMM that I'd date him if was separated. He did separate, but it was still a torture-fest.

 

Instead of wondering, "Will he leave?" You'll find yourself wondering, "Will he really get divorced? and when?" It's not all that different in feeling! And trust me, your whole sense of timing will get screwed up. You won't know if you're being impatient or a sucker as you wait for his D. Nerve-wracking.

[boogieboy]

I'd try to get out ASAP. You could tell him to leave you alone until his divorce is final and hes fully separated from his wife, but the way he used you, he can tell you anything and you will believe him. You never know which of his words to believe. Plus his wife is trying to screw with his mind when she knows hes with you? This is messy and ugly and you should get out until the smoke clears at least.

[fooled once]

Have you put your life on hold for 2 years waiting for him?

 

If so, I am sorry you did that.

 

How can you love someone you really don't know?

 

You don't know him day in and day out.

 

I would NOT date him until he has been on his own --- in his own place --- for a minimum of 6 months.

 

He seems to be jumping from one woman to the next.

 

And for you -- get out there and get a life for you <hug>

 

Date others. Enjoy life.

[jj33]

If you have been apart for 2 years, I would hang on until he is REALLY separated. You dont want to be the crutch while he goes starts the divorce process only to find that he doesnt go all the way through with it (it happens).

 

He may also need time on his own when he gets out to get used to the fact that he is single (possibly for the first time in years)

 

But more to the point you feel you have been abandoned. Much as you love him, you dont want to go into this as his emotional security blanket his support etc during the divorce when deep down inside you feel that he has abandoned you.

 

Seems to me you want him back when he is prepared to make YOU the number one priority in his life, not when he is going through a million emotions regarding his divorce and you are in a number 2 position... again.

 

But I get where you are. Its almost the same time frame since MM and I ended things. If he called tomorow and said we are divorcing I have left the house... Im not sure how I would react.

 

It seems to me that it would take a lot to put the relationshp back on track after the whole abandonment feeling and I wonder if the divorce cycle is the best time to do it.

 

That being said if he is clear in his mind that he is leaving then he may be able to start things fresh with you without you feeling like you are 2nd again.

[Heather1]

This kind of depends on how old you are....

 

The older you are, the more baggage. If you're in you're 20's, that would be a lot to tackle.

 

I've been with my H almost 20 years & I was a "rebound." They decided to end it the week before I met him, but no kids. She's going to be in his life, so bank on that one. My girlfriends, co-workers etc. were telling me to get out, not a chance, blah, blah, blah. Nothing good. He said he never wanted to remarry, never wanted kids, and everyone was telling me to listen to that. A woman in a restaurant overheard my girlfriends giving me advice. She was pregnant, and walked over to say her H told her the same thing, and this was her 3rd kid. Positive advice from a total stranger. It's not easy at first, as a matter of fact it kind of sucked loaning my car so they could share theirs & not really being able to date or have a wedding because he didn't have any money. But I couldn't envision my future without him, if that makes sense. In my case, it was worth the risk. We didn't have problems until last year when our lives became overwhelming. Any relationship is a risk. I did, however, make sure my H xW was nothing like me so he didn't repeat himself. Turns out, we're nothing alike...they got married because his family told him not to.

[norajane]

He's not free to offer you anything worth having right now. And he's not offering you anything, nothing you can really hold on to. He's afraid to be alone, so he's turning to you because you're still there.

 

If he wants to be with you, make him work for it. Tell him he has to do the hard work now and go through his separation, and go through his divorce, and go through his healing process. Only then will he have a whole heart to give you, rather than sucking you dry of the emotional support he's so desperate for right now as his life crumbles (again) at the hands of his wife. Don't let him use you as his crutch!

 

HE did not leave HER. SHE left him, both times. THAT should tell you how much he was thinking of you and loving you. All this love he says he's had for you this whole time? You wouldn't be hearing a word of it if she hadn't left him again. Not. One. Word. He'd still be with her if she hadn't left, and you wouldn't have gotten the call. The only reason he's calling you now is because SHE left HIM.

[White Flower]

It sounds like his W is still calling all the shots. She wants to leave and so NOW he wants to see you? What, he was just hanging around in his M until she tired of him? And now he chooses you??? Tell him how his sudden change of mind (thanks to his W changing her mind) to choose you doesn't seem so sincere.

 

And date night? Hello??? No way. The children will be fine once they are separated and divorced. I've heard of divorced couples attending birthday parties at the same time but not together, especially when there is a new person in the R.

 

Transparency is wonderful, but this time it is apparent that he is allowing his W to call the shots. Don't let this pattern begin at the outset of your R.

[Bluebird In My Heart]

Since you already know the pain of being in an ambivelent back/forth situation, the smartest thing would be to tell him that you are open to dating him after he's divorced and gone through his adjustment phase.

 

Explain that you care for him, but that don't want to be his fall back girl. He needs to progress with his divorce on his own.

 

You don't want to get in a position where you are waiting for him or suffering if he gets back together with her.

 

I already did suffer immensely. I can so identify with ow who have a full-blown affair for those reasons, although the intensity is no doubt much greater. When he went back to her the first time, he "won" her back (temporarily, and I knew that the entire time!)...so, right he "won"!

 

The prize. I told him congrats.

 

At the same time, who knows, it could have worked with her. I told him I was happy if he was happy.

 

Yet I never got over the feeling that I am second-best, at best.

 

This whole thing did a number on my feeling of self-worth and self-esteem.

 

I just finished venting with him - he may very well call again --- he may very well not -- I think I ruined it with him before it had a chance to begin out in the open. Oops. He had to know my pain, though. He asked to know about it.

 

So...I think I ended up looking like tooooo much, Wildsoul...

 

I told him all about how he hurt me -- I feel I made a mistake doing so on one hand...on the other, he wanted to know, and if it's going to be real, we needed to get that out of the way, no?

 

I feel kind of ill. Now I am worried he will think I'm just too much.

 

If I never hear from him again, his LAST IMPRESSION of me will be a crying mess who is likely way too sensitive...

[Bluebird In My Heart]

Things can change and him calling you out of the blue is very selfish of him. Why wouldn't he wait until atleast a FULL year of separation? Or even after he was offically divorced? He isn't thinking of you, he's thinking of himself. I mean, what if you two do get together and in 2 or 3 months he changes his mind and wants to go back home? You are the one who is left out and left alone hurting..

 

I do feel it was selfish. He put me through so much, that all I am left with his doubts. If I want to look at this one way, I could say he is being selfish - if I want to see it another way, I could say he is finally unloading how he truly feels. Things he has been holding back.

 

I am pretty confused about it.

 

Besides, his life is a mess now or will be, that is IF they do separate. They have kids, the house, finances to settle.. He is in NO position to offer you anything, and what he can offer you isn't and shouldn't be enough right now.

 

If you love him, focus on your life, live your life and when the timing is better/right in the future, then date him. Until then, don't get sucked into his life, his impending possible separation/divorce. All it will do is hurt you..

 

What if he thinks I abandoned him in his time of need?

 

What if he gives up on me and finds someone new, since I left him out in the cold?

[Bluebird In My Heart]

BTW, I recommend the book called "Surviving Your Boyfriend's Divorce" by Robyn Todd.

 

Although I don't recommend dating a separated man. I knew I couldn't handle being in an affair, but told my xMM that I'd date him if was separated. He did separate, but it was still a torture-fest.

 

Instead of wondering, "Will he leave?" You'll find yourself wondering, "Will he really get divorced? and when?" It's not all that different in feeling! And trust me, your whole sense of timing will get screwed up. You won't know if you're being impatient or a sucker as you wait for his D. Nerve-wracking.

 

And remember, she is not making this easy nor clear at all. She is still very much in the mode that she wants him still eating out of her hands while she treads new waters.

 

I just do not know...

[jj33]

Two things.

 

1. You had to tell him. You are not "too much". Anyone in your position would have been deeply hurt. If you have a future he has to know the hurt you carry from this.

 

And if its too much for him to own his role in how you were hurt, then hes not the man for you.

 

2. Maybe you can explain to him that you are afraid and that you cant go through this divorce with him because of the history and that you dont want to abandon him in his time of need, but you cant welcome him back with open arms until you are sure that he is going to stand behind his words and you dont think he will be able to do that while he is going through a divorce.

[Bluebird In My Heart]

I'd try to get out ASAP. You could tell him to leave you alone until his divorce is final and hes fully separated from his wife, but the way he used you, he can tell you anything and you will believe him. You never know which of his words to believe.

 

BINGO!

 

I honestly thought nothing in the world could truly, truly kill my love for him.

 

And while I still DO love him - there's something else in there, and it's something ugly and I don't know quite how to feel right now.

 

Maybe with time...

 

 

Plus his wife is trying to screw with his mind when she knows hes with you? This is messy and ugly and you should get out until the smoke clears at least.

 

She is one of "those" women - hate to put it this way, but it is true. She doesn't want him, but if she so much as sees me in the picture she WILL come racing back. And why? Just because she can.

 

Up to him then, isn't it?

 

*laughing a little hysterical-like*

 

You got to the heart of the matter there.

[Bluebird In My Heart]

Have you put your life on hold for 2 years waiting for him?

 

If so, I am sorry you did that.

 

How can you love someone you really don't know?

 

You don't know him day in and day out.

 

I would NOT date him until he has been on his own --- in his own place --- for a minimum of 6 months.

 

He seems to be jumping from one woman to the next.

 

And for you -- get out there and get a life for you <hug>

 

Date others. Enjoy life.

 

Thank you so much, Fooled Once.

 

You gave a larger perspective and simplicity that really comes in handy when I am so mired in detail.

 

Maybe, I need to let go of the fear of losing this guy? I really don't know what it is right now that is keeping me so bound.

 

It could be shock. This is all overwhelming and it JUST happened?

 

You've given me a lot to think about. Thanks for the lovely way you put it.

 

*hugs back*

[Bluebird In My Heart]

I shall complete replies to everyone later, must get some fresh air.

 

Thank you so much for the ideas and different points of view - all of them are valuable and I've taken them on board.

 

For now, fresh air and a long walk!

 

Back later, love.

[Bluebird In My Heart]

If you have been apart for 2 years, I would hang on until he is REALLY separated. You dont want to be the crutch while he goes starts the divorce process only to find that he doesnt go all the way through with it (it happens).

 

He may also need time on his own when he gets out to get used to the fact that he is single (possibly for the first time in years)

 

But more to the point you feel you have been abandoned. Much as you love him, you dont want to go into this as his emotional security blanket his support etc during the divorce when deep down inside you feel that he has abandoned you.

 

Seems to me you want him back when he is prepared to make YOU the number one priority in his life, not when he is going through a million emotions regarding his divorce and you are in a number 2 position... again.

 

You have addressed all of my concerns in a nutshell right there.

 

I don't want to let him in again, only to go back to her. He wants me there, and very soon. I think it is too soon, because there is a very real and present danger of this happening all over again. I wouldn't entirely blame them if they did end up back together - but it would just be more games, only to go back to baseline and I don't think I could ever be around for the next round of this.

 

Or, even this round. I have a lot of thinking to do.

 

He did ditch me, and it is tough to get past. He believes that we can.

 

He's rather thrown by the things I have said.

 

We will see.

 

He thinks time will help, he can prove himself. Maybe he doesn't think it anymore after this last talk, though. I might have screwed this up already.

 

But I get where you are. Its almost the same time frame since MM and I ended things. If he called tomorow and said we are divorcing I have left the house... Im not sure how I would react.

 

It seems to me that it would take a lot to put the relationshp back on track after the whole abandonment feeling and I wonder if the divorce cycle is the best time to do it.

 

That being said if he is clear in his mind that he is leaving then he may be able to start things fresh with you without you feeling like you are 2nd again.

 

He thinks we can. I remain skeptical.

 

Like I said though, I think I stuck a fork in this, perhaps.

 

He has some thinking to do as well. I would imagine!

[Bluebird In My Heart]

This kind of depends on how old you are....

 

The older you are, the more baggage. If you're in you're 20's, that would be a lot to tackle.

 

I've been with my H almost 20 years & I was a "rebound." They decided to end it the week before I met him, but no kids. She's going to be in his life, so bank on that one. My girlfriends, co-workers etc. were telling me to get out, not a chance, blah, blah, blah. Nothing good. He said he never wanted to remarry, never wanted kids, and everyone was telling me to listen to that. A woman in a restaurant overheard my girlfriends giving me advice. She was pregnant, and walked over to say her H told her the same thing, and this was her 3rd kid. Positive advice from a total stranger. It's not easy at first, as a matter of fact it kind of sucked loaning my car so they could share theirs & not really being able to date or have a wedding because he didn't have any money. But I couldn't envision my future without him, if that makes sense. In my case, it was worth the risk. We didn't have problems until last year when our lives became overwhelming. Any relationship is a risk. I did, however, make sure my H xW was nothing like me so he didn't repeat himself. Turns out, we're nothing alike...they got married because his family told him not to.

 

I'm rather unlike her. We are both nice women, I think. It's just they aren't compatible.

 

The only thing I really dislike about her obviously what she did to hurt him...that, and sadly she is emotionally immature and likes to play games with people's heads. And lives.

 

You can be like that and still not be a bad person, so that's what she is like.

 

And that's another thing - sometimes it works out. I've heard about this too. Guess I have to get past the hurt if it is possible.

 

I still love him.

[Bluebird In My Heart]

He's not free to offer you anything worth having right now. And he's not offering you anything, nothing you can really hold on to. He's afraid to be alone, so he's turning to you because you're still there.

 

If he wants to be with you, make him work for it. Tell him he has to do the hard work now and go through his separation, and go through his divorce, and go through his healing process. Only then will he have a whole heart to give you, rather than sucking you dry of the emotional support he's so desperate for right now as his life crumbles (again) at the hands of his wife. Don't let him use you as his crutch!

 

HE did not leave HER. SHE left him, both times. THAT should tell you how much he was thinking of you and loving you. All this love he says he's had for you this whole time? You wouldn't be hearing a word of it if she hadn't left him again. Not. One. Word. He'd still be with her if she hadn't left, and you wouldn't have gotten the call. The only reason he's calling you now is because SHE left HIM.

 

 

This is hard to hear, but it is something that's been going around in my head again and again. Trust me on that one.

 

As tough as it is, I need to know that. It brings every single negative emotion and doubt back up.

 

Thanks.

[Bluebird In My Heart]

It sounds like his W is still calling all the shots. She wants to leave and so NOW he wants to see you? What, he was just hanging around in his M until she tired of him? And now he chooses you??? Tell him how his sudden change of mind (thanks to his W changing her mind) to choose you doesn't seem so sincere.

 

And date night? Hello??? No way. The children will be fine once they are separated and divorced. I've heard of divorced couples attending birthday parties at the same time but not together, especially when there is a new person in the R.

 

Transparency is wonderful, but this time it is apparent that he is allowing his W to call the shots. Don't let this pattern begin at the outset of your R.

 

 

I brought this up. He was shocked.

 

I think - there might be some part of him that is looking at me as an escape from these realities - and when I "got real" with him - his reaction has been...really shocked.

 

I do not like the idea of someone else pulling the strings like this. It seems so disempowering.

 

I think the shock is starting to wear off a bit on my end.

 

Thanks, WF.

[wildsoul]

He thinks time will help, he can prove himself. Maybe he doesn't think it anymore after this last talk, though. I might have screwed this up already.

Time will help, but it's what he does with that time. He'll never be more motivated to get through his divorce quickly than if he doesn't already have you on board! (been there done that)

 

Also, I'd like to gently point out that you seem to be worrying excessively if you "blew it" by telling him your feelings. It's making me worry for you a little bit, because it shows that the power differential is off here. You're a little too afraid of losing him (correct me if I'm wrong.) It worries me that he might exploit that weak spot, for example trying to make you feel guilty for not "unconditionally loving him," or some other such oft-repeated manipulation in the MM handbook. My advice is for you to get comfortable in your own skin and expressing yourself.

 

Let him have the space to process your words. Don't go rushing back into taking them back! (Just in case you're thinking of doing that.)

[Bluebird In My Heart]

^

 

Oh yes, and what do you do with a crutch when you don't need it anymore?

 

Don't think I haven't had those same thoughts.

[Bluebird In My Heart]

Two things.

 

1. You had to tell him. You are not "too much". Anyone in your position would have been deeply hurt. If you have a future he has to know the hurt you carry from this.

 

And if its too much for him to own his role in how you were hurt, then hes not the man for you.

 

2. Maybe you can explain to him that you are afraid and that you cant go through this divorce with him because of the history and that you dont want to abandon him in his time of need, but you cant welcome him back with open arms until you are sure that he is going to stand behind his words and you dont think he will be able to do that while he is going through a divorce.

 

1. At least I did tell him, jj - I couldn't go on about it otherwise. And perhaps if nothing else, even IF everything happens he could end up with someone else - and I want him to be very aware re: how this could hurt a woman - any other woman, not just me. So I do feel some consolation from that. *hugs*

 

2. I'm leaning in this direction. JJ, the things is...damn it I loved him for so long and I could end up losing him by not being there. At the same time, if I AM there, I could end up destroyed.

 

Tough decision.