Reggie Posted May 18, 2009 Posted May 18, 2009 I've probably read hundreds of these stories about infidelity and I have yet to come across one where a BS reacted angrily toward the person that informed him or her. On the other hand, I've read many stories of BS's resenting those that knew and did not tell. Does anyone recall a story where the BS got pissed at the messenger? All I've seen in gratitude.
amerikajin Posted May 18, 2009 Posted May 18, 2009 It doesn't matter how the friend reacts. No one but the friend can control his reaction whether it be disbelief or sadness or whatever. This isn't about the friend's potential reaction...its about the OP, his W and the decision they face. They BOTH know the friend is being horribly abused and betrayed by the W. The question they face is do they allow themselves to become complicit in this? For me, by NOT telling, they betray the friend every bit as deeply and horribly as the WS. They too twist the dagger. So...do they stop twisting the blade or continue...that decision reflects upon THEM. So OP...will you continue to twist the blade? I generally share the same views, but I don't necessarily think it's always as straightforward as one might assume on the face of it. That's all I'm saying.
NoIDidn't Posted May 19, 2009 Posted May 19, 2009 Personally, I could probably live with losing a friend over this issue, but what if the friend goes back to grade school and is a friend of the family? It's not always so cut and dry. I stop with the "losing a friend over this issue", part. I know its a cliche, but its true: season, reason, lifetime. Not every friend is meant to be in your life forever. Telling is not for cowards, that's for sure.
mental_traveller Posted May 19, 2009 Posted May 19, 2009 My problem is this. He is a friend of mine and his wife is a friend of my wifes. The last thing I want to do is be the presenter of information in this case. I wish I could tell someone else who could break it to him, but then the trail could lead back to me. She's a crappy wife to him anyways. I have undeniable proof. Just would like it to come anonymously to him. At least then he knows what's going on. Stop being such a wimp and tell him. So you get a bit of clack from his wife, who the hell cares? It's not like you are going to have to lead a platoon into machine gun fire, or get diagnosed with cancer.
NoIDidn't Posted May 19, 2009 Posted May 19, 2009 Stop being such a wimp and tell him. So you get a bit of clack from his wife, who the hell cares? It's not like you are going to have to lead a platoon into machine gun fire, or get diagnosed with cancer. I think his bigger concern is the fact that the wives (his and the cheating one) are friends. He's in a pickle if this comes back to bite his own marriage.
mental_traveller Posted May 19, 2009 Posted May 19, 2009 I think his bigger concern is the fact that the wives (his and the cheating one) are friends. He's in a pickle if this comes back to bite his own marriage. The cuckolded husband could contract HIV and die thanks to his cheating wife. OP having a bit of temporary earache from his wife it utterly trivial in comparison. Get a bloody grip people.
NoIDidn't Posted May 19, 2009 Posted May 19, 2009 The cuckolded husband could contract HIV and die thanks to his cheating wife. Oh yeah, THAT'S not too extreme. LOL. I think his concern about his W is valid. It means he's thinking of all the ways that telling will affect him and his life. I get what you are saying too, but its not so cut and dry. I can honestly say that my H wouldn't be mad at me for telling on one of his friends if I knew he was cheating. In the post I made earlier, I was in such a position as we both were friends with the couple. I was told it was my choice. I made a choice. I didn't tell.
amerikajin Posted May 19, 2009 Posted May 19, 2009 I stop with the "losing a friend over this issue", part. I know its a cliche, but its true: season, reason, lifetime. Not every friend is meant to be in your life forever. Telling is not for cowards, that's for sure. What if the OP's friend beats the crap out of his wife in private?
Dexter Morgan Posted May 19, 2009 Posted May 19, 2009 What if the OP's friend beats the crap out of his wife in private? that being a possibility wouldn't sway me from telling him.
Reggie Posted May 19, 2009 Posted May 19, 2009 Lots of what ifs, and I agree there are concerns. Presumably, this guy has a handle on his friend's propensity for violence and can factor that in. It is fairly rare for a BH to react that way, although it clearly happens. I just cannot imagine witholding this info from my friend, though. As I stated earlier, I am not aware of any tales where the BS held it against the informer. It may happen, but it must be rare. The truth is his friend is being treated very badly, abused, no doubt. His finances may be depleted by the resources devoted to the affair. Despite the claim of on poster tha HIV risk is extreme, it is real and I have read three situations where the BS was infected with an STD, although not HIV. He may be being gaslighted and that affects his mental health. I think you should tell your friend what his wife is doing.
amerikajin Posted May 19, 2009 Posted May 19, 2009 that being a possibility wouldn't sway me from telling him. It probably wouldn't keep me from telling him either. I'm just pointing out that there might be things that happen behind closed doors that none of us know about. Personally, I think the degree of obligation that he has to tell is something that the OP ought to know internally. Frankly, if it were just a casual acquaintance and I didn't really know either party all that well, I probably wouldn't get involved. I have no desire to delve into people's private lives but that's just me. If it were a close friend, I would probably have no choice but to tell, although I would do so with great care for the facts and I would do so with a lot of reservation. I don't blame the OP for being cautious. He probably knows and might even like both people.
Reggie Posted May 19, 2009 Posted May 19, 2009 Oh yeah, THAT'S not too extreme. LOL. I think his concern about his W is valid. It means he's thinking of all the ways that telling will affect him and his life. I get what you are saying too, but its not so cut and dry. I can honestly say that my H wouldn't be mad at me for telling on one of his friends if I knew he was cheating. In the post I made earlier, I was in such a position as we both were friends with the couple. I was told it was my choice. I made a choice. I didn't tell. IMO, it is not extreme at all . I have read of 3 situations where the BS contracted an STD from the WS. It is a very real risk.
Dexter Morgan Posted May 19, 2009 Posted May 19, 2009 I don't blame the OP for being cautious. He probably knows and might even like both people. I agree and also don't blame for being cautious. I would be cautious myself, but would eventually find the best way to let him know. And I might like both people too, but if one turned out to be a cheater, I wouldn't like one of them any longer.
a4a Posted May 19, 2009 Posted May 19, 2009 I don't understand the need to interfere in other peoples relationships. Does this somehow make the "informer" feel good about him or herself? Does it relieve their own "issues" within their relationship? What does the informer get out of informing?
Dexter Morgan Posted May 19, 2009 Posted May 19, 2009 I don't understand the need to interfere in other peoples relationships. Does this somehow make the "informer" feel good about him or herself? Does it relieve their own "issues" within their relationship? What does the informer get out of informing? making sure their "friend" isn't walked all over and betrayed any longer. just a guess.
Reggie Posted May 19, 2009 Posted May 19, 2009 Having been through this, the months of gaslighting, the resource depletion, the abuse etc, I would want to help my friend avoid some of it.
Reggie Posted May 19, 2009 Posted May 19, 2009 I don't understand the need to interfere in other peoples relationships. Does this somehow make the "informer" feel good about him or herself? Does it relieve their own "issues" within their relationship? What does the informer get out of informing? CAn you explain the question re relieving issues in their own relationship? I don't see the connection. Thanks.
amerikajin Posted May 19, 2009 Posted May 19, 2009 I agree and also don't blame for being cautious. I would be cautious myself, but would eventually find the best way to let him know. And I might like both people too, but if one turned out to be a cheater, I wouldn't like one of them any longer. I've known several cheaters. Funny thing is, almost all of the ones I can think of at the moment are/were men, except for one woman. They were/are actually all friendly and easy to get along with. Some were just friendly schmucks, while others were basically decent people who had issues and didn't have the best relationship skills. They've run the gamut. There are some 'cheaters' I would still consider friends; others I would not. The same applies for people who haven't to my knowledge cheated on their partners. I do believe that those who make the decision to engage in an affair are showing a weakness in their character, but I don't pass harsh judgment of them. Obviously, that's a matter of perspective and I would feel one hell of a lot different if I were the one being affronted. But when I look at it objectively, I think just about everyone has the capacity to cheat. Everyone has the capacity to tell a lie, the capacity to do things in a moment of weakness that they're not proud of. I believe in holding people accountable, and making sure that people accept responsibility and take action to change, but I don't believe in simply dividing the world into two distinct categories, cheaters and everyone else. We're all sinners.
a4a Posted May 19, 2009 Posted May 19, 2009 CAn you explain the question re relieving issues in their own relationship? I don't see the connection. Thanks. People that have themselves experienced infidelity in their own R's or when growing up with their parents that may have had an affair. (projection of anger and obtaining their own justice in a way) Or people that have nearly had an affair EA or PA that need to use a friends issue to relieve their own guilt for their own actions. - continue making up your own possible scenarios as to why someone would like to "inform". Man have you ever lit up a cigarette around a smoker that recently quit........ good god! People rarely do anything without some form of personal/emotional paycheck for themselves.
amerikajin Posted May 19, 2009 Posted May 19, 2009 making sure their "friend" isn't walked all over and betrayed any longer. just a guess. I think a4a touched on some of what I was getting at, although the precise wording of what I'm trying to say has proven to be difficult. I think it also requires dropping the conventional notion that the cheater is always to blame for everything bad that happens in the marriage, as is so often the case here on the LS threads on infidelity. The OP apparently has evidence that his friend's wife is fooling around with another man, but that might be all he knows. We don't know what goes on behind closed doors. How do you know that it isn't the wife who is, in fact, being walked over and ignored, and that this isn't just a manifestation of that. Cheating is obviously not an appropriate response -- I'm not debating that. But I wouldn't be inclined to judge the cheater as harshly for the simple reason that there might be a lot of things going on in private that I don't know about. I know of one guy (he was actually my brother's friend more than mine) who cheated on his wife. However, there were times - and I saw this with my own eyes - when they would literally tear into each other with insults. It's hardly surprising that he resorted to cheating. Again, it was the wrong response, but his wife wasn't blameless either. Again, not saying don't tell. But make sure you're clear on why you're telling. Make sure you have a clear idea about what you're going to get out of it, weighing the positives and negatives. Don't just rush into this with some simplistic assumption that you're a hero who's coming to save the day.
Dexter Morgan Posted May 19, 2009 Posted May 19, 2009 Having been through this, the months of gaslighting, the resource depletion, the abuse etc, I would want to help my friend avoid some of it. and I would have wanted a friend to come forward with the information. None of my good friends knew what was going on in my situation with my xW. But a few people I consider "friends", just not ones I hung out with, told me of what they knew AFTER they heard I was getting a divorce. My conversation with one of them was pretty much a "WHY THE HELL DIDN'T YOU SAY SOMETHING YEARS AGO???" I told her that she could have saved about 8 years off my life and that she allowed me to be played for fool for all those years knowing what was going on. I don't talk to those people any longer. I feel they robbed me just as much as my X did since they didn't want to tell me, but I bet they made it gossip and told everyone else about it.
Dexter Morgan Posted May 19, 2009 Posted May 19, 2009 I think a4a touched on some of what I was getting at, although the precise wording of what I'm trying to say has proven to be difficult. I think it also requires dropping the conventional notion that the cheater is always to blame for everything bad that happens in the marriage, as is so often the case here on the LS threads on infidelity. So don't inform a good friend he/she is being cheated on because said freind might be to blame? The OP apparently has evidence that his friend's wife is fooling around with another man, but that might be all he knows. We don't know what goes on behind closed doors. What difference does it make what the circumstances are? Nothing excuses or justifies cheating. So basically I am hearing, this friend doesn't necessarily deserve to know the truth? How do you know that it isn't the wife who is, in fact, being walked over and ignored, and that this isn't just a manifestation of that. then that is something the wife would know and something they can talk about. and in any case, that doesn't justify what she is doing and doesn't in any way lessen his right to know. Cheating is obviously not an appropriate response -- I'm not debating that. But I wouldn't be inclined to judge the cheater as harshly for the simple reason that there might be a lot of things going on in private that I don't know about. Even though I don't care what the excuse is for cheating...we are not talking about judging the cheater harshly. We are talking about making a friend aware that his wife is cheating on him.
amerikajin Posted May 19, 2009 Posted May 19, 2009 This is a perfect example of how two reasonable individuals can have slightly different value systems. One person might view the friend's right to know and preserving the friendship the higher priority. I get that, but I don't entirely agree. I believe that if you're going to disclose something as defamatory and as emotionally explosive as infidelity, you have a moral obligation to reveal sources so that both sides can evaluate the credibility of those sources. I don't see what good it does to disclose the affair in an attempt to reveal the truth about someone's marriage, yet not having the decency to step forward and claim responsibility for disclosure. If it's truth we're interested in, then let's have it -- all of it. Don't hide behind some anonymous letter or an email. Keep in mind though that the affair itself only reveals partial truth. There might be a lot more truth out there that the OP doesn't know about, and it might even surprisingly reflect poorly on his friend. You just never really know. It's no wonder to me why the OP would want to be very cautious in his approach. Would he really want to hear from the indignant wife that his friend is impotent or has become awful in bed over the years? Would he really want to put his friend through that kind of humiliation? Would he really want the wife to reveal about how his friend might have flirted or drunk texted one of his co-workers months ago? Would he really want to hear about how he drinks too much? Would the OP want to hear about the time the OP's friend and his wife were talking in private about what a d*ck the OP can be sometimes, thinking it was just a private conversation? Because I can assure you, the wife will feel compelled to get out her side of the story. I'm telling you -- when you decide to get involved in someone's marriage, be prepared, because there is a good possibility the proverbial sh*t will hit the proverbial fan. Again, not saying don't tell, just saying don't be naive about the consequences.
carhill Posted May 19, 2009 Posted May 19, 2009 As I mentioned prior, show, not tell. Present the evidence in written/audio form and stand by for support. Sometimes few or no words are better. If anything tell the friend you support *him* and leave it at that, and then, as appropriate, leave him to process.
a4a Posted May 19, 2009 Posted May 19, 2009 This is kinda funny since the OP has not posted in a bit. What proof does he actually have? Photos....... witness to the actual sex? Dexter you were cheated on? This explains your need to wave the "tell no matter what" flag. Personal/emotional paycheck. I have been cheated on - I choose not to get involved in other peoples M's and "tell". I know plenty of "cheaters" right now. I will not get involved to further destory or manipulate their relationships. That is between them. I can respect boundaries. Not my Marriage, so not my place to get involved in it.
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