How do I let go of the OW?

[Anis]

I keep coming back to this part of the forum, and I feel like I don't belong here, but I'm so very curious about the OW's position. At first it was to just get a clue b/c I wanted to know that it meant something to "her," that what she tried to take away wasn't just for fun or flight of fancy. B/c that would mean that she lost something when she lost him. Then I realized how wrapped up and warped the whole A is. And now I'm trying to sympathize with you OW's b/c to feel you lost or tricked lessens the punch. I want to feel her human.

 

Then it's not her trying to take something from me. It's her naive and duped and then I don't feel so bad about myself - I guess.

 

My problem is I just want to stop thinking about her. I'm over a year healing from the A, I'm moving on with my H and I just want her out of my life. But why am I even focusing on her? I very logically know who the brunt of the fault starts with, I know who's really important in MY life, and I know that these thoughts are saying something to me about who I'm trying not to concentrate on.

 

I feel like I've been working so hard to get past it only to get preoccupied by these thoughts - and then the horrific thought --- What if she's already gotten over it?? And here I am with the "prize" and it really is going good and it seems I'm being awarded for my bravery by a relationship I really enjoy....but I can't put her away?? How sad. What am I missing?

[White Flower]

You are the W who won her H back from the OW?

 

If so, why are you concerned if she got over it or not? Perhaps you care about her feelings and that surprises you? Or perhaps you feel that if she has gotten over the A, then why haven't you? I guess I am looking for more clarification.

[IfWishesWereHorses]

Sorry you're still dealing with this. I think that one thing that the OW board does is to humanize the OW in the BS's eyes, for some that is, other's can't take it.

 

I believe that it depends on the person as well as their circumstances. In my case the OW, I felt, inserted herself into my life in other ways and that is why I have most of my residual problems with her. I've never had my say, but one day she will know exactly how I feel.

 

I think it does get better with time. And YES it makes sense that the only one who owed you anything was your husband, but if a friend or neighbor or stranger for that matter ever interferes in my life in a detrimental way purposefully, then they deserve my wrath, IMO.

 

Truth is, if you are working on your marriage, you will be happier once you let her go. It's just not as easy as that when emotions are involved. Also, I believe it is much easier to forgive someone you love than a stranger in any circumstance.

 

Good luck with your endeavors.

[wildsoul]

FWIW, you're doing the same thing that a lot of us OW's do:

 

We feel hurt, betrayed, and stuck in our pain. Then we imagine that our xMM and his W are having a perfect life. Somehow, their "happiness" makes a stark contrast to our grief. We wonder what's wrong with us. Why can't we move on.

 

You doing this very thing. I think it must be human nature. Part of the healing process. I call these "dark fantasies," because they're almost always fictitious (we don't really know what is going on in someone's marriage) and we are suffering from our own imagination. It's a kind of obsession.

 

Why do you think it is that you do that?

 

Speaking for myself (10weeks out of a 13-mos R with a separated man) I've been tempted to torture myself that way. It's a little bit of "what's wrong with me; why can't I have a good marriage" negative bullcrap. I know it's just a way to beat myself up, so I try to not go there.

 

Most women I know have been cheated on, so a lot of us OW's have been in your shoes. Quite a few of the BS's here have been caught up in affairs before too. We're not all that different.

[Anis]

Yes, well the A ended without me, so they ran their course a while before I "knew" about it. I suspected, but over time stopped worrying about it and thought I was being paranoid like my H was telling me.

 

When my H first confessed to the A, he made it sound casual and brief. MOnths of conversations later I found out it was definitely more than that, and actually everything he downplays I assume is the opposite. Well, he swears the sex wasn't that good or frequent, and I choose to believe that just b/c the alternative hurts too much.

 

So now 16 months later we - I'VE come very far in coping and healing, but this girl never seems to leave my head for good. I'm over the big ego trips (still working on the little ones ) but I don't need to compare myself to her anymore. She is what she is. I've accepted it. So WHY am I here spending my mind on her instead of doing something more interesting with my time? Why does she preoccupy me, when out of the 3 people involved here she's the one that deserves the least of my attention???

[Anis]

Also, I believe it is much easier to forgive someone you love than a stranger in any circumstance.

 

I hadn't thought of that. But you have a good point.

[NoIDidn't]

Do you know anything about her? Her name? Her age?

 

It seems that because he downplayed so much of what actually happened, you are still in the stage of wondering who she was/is.

 

Finding out that our H's had an A, IS a HUGE blow to the ego. It was to mine.

 

I don't wish ill or good on my H's exOW. She went through enough with the fallout of the work EA they had. But I still went through the stages of obsessively thinking about her. Wondering what was so great about her and things. Turns out there was nothing so great about her (no offense to her). They were just two wounded people that found each other.

 

Kind of like being in the right place at the wrong time. Or something like that.

[White Flower]

A,

 

It is really hard to compare yourself to the OW especially if you didn't know her personally yet I think it is second nature to do so.

 

I know I used to compare myself to exMM's W. We were so different in many ways but to tell you the truth I think we were very nice, loving people which gave us something in common. Once I found out that I was not his first OW, I realized he was not putting me above her nor did he love me any more than her. He was just always going to be a cheater. The one on the side was always going to be for entertainment. How sad for me to believe how much in love he was with me, how special I was, and how much more intelligent and intuitive I was than her. If all that were true, why was he right there by her side each night?

 

I began to feel really sorry for her. How many times had he sought entertainment outside the M while she stayed dutifully at his side? I do believe his guilt over this is one of the reasons he stayed yet I also feel he did love her to a degree; just not as completely as she would have preferred.

 

I believe he is trying his best to make her feel loved now though. We keep in touch and I consistently hear about the wonderful things he does for her. I hope your H continues to make it up to you and that you eventually forget the pain you now feel.

 

Have you ever had a conversation with her? Are you looking for any more 'truths'? If so, will the new truth put your mind at ease?

[Anis]

A,

 

Have you ever had a conversation with her? Are you looking for any more 'truths'? If so, will the new truth put your mind at ease?

 

I e-mailed her when I found out and asked how she felt about what went on between them. She never responded. Honestly I wasn't expecting her to, I just wanted some response to make her a real person and not just my biggest nightmare. In a way I understand, I mean how do you begin to answer that question? But at that time I was under the impression that it was "casual." I didn't believe she felt any real pain over it. Maybe I was hoping for more truth than I was getting from my H.

 

I would still take the chance to sit down with her, now that I'm farther away from it and feel like I wouldn't start screaming names, but then I know I'm bound to hear things I didn't know, and at this point in our recovering will rehashing a bad situation do any good? Either way bad is bad, do I need more details? Not really. I need to move on.

 

I met her once for a second almost 4 years ago (works with H) and have seen her on a few occassions since then. She's always stayed away from me to where I never would see her even though she was there.

 

I don't really pray but I heard from a recovering addict that part of the 12 steps is to pray for the people you resent or think have done you harm, you wish them love and peace - even if you don't mean it, and eventually you do mean it. It is supposed to release you, I guess with the power of an affirmation. I tried it a few times and felt like I meant it at the time, but no not really.

 

It is a relief to hear that I'm not alone in that, b/c I'm actually ashamed of it. So thank you for all the input.

[White Flower]

I e-mailed her when I found out and asked how she felt about what went on between them. She never responded. Honestly I wasn't expecting her to, I just wanted some response to make her a real person and not just my biggest nightmare. In a way I understand, I mean how do you begin to answer that question? But at that time I was under the impression that it was "casual." I didn't believe she felt any real pain over it. Maybe I was hoping for more truth than I was getting from my H.

 

I would still take the chance to sit down with her, now that I'm farther away from it and feel like I wouldn't start screaming names, but then I know I'm bound to hear things I didn't know, and at this point in our recovering will rehashing a bad situation do any good? Either way bad is bad, do I need more details? Not really. I need to move on.

 

I met her once for a second almost 4 years ago (works with H) and have seen her on a few occassions since then. She's always stayed away from me to where I never would see her even though she was there.

 

I don't really pray but I heard from a recovering addict that part of the 12 steps is to pray for the people you resent or think have done you harm, you wish them love and peace - even if you don't mean it, and eventually you do mean it. It is supposed to release you, I guess with the power of an affirmation. I tried it a few times and felt like I meant it at the time, but no not really.

 

It is a relief to hear that I'm not alone in that, b/c I'm actually ashamed of it. So thank you for all the input.

It sounds as though she is trying very hard to respect you and your feelings. She may have been lied to or had truths withheld as well. I'm sure talking it out together will help all of you to put it behind you, but only if you're ready to hear surprising facts. It may make the difference that truly helps your marriage or breaks it depending on your reaction or response. And remember, we react with emotion, but respond with intelligence.

 

Good luck in your quest to get over the OW.

[NoIDidn't]

It sounds as though she is trying very hard to respect you and your feelings. She may have been lied to or had truths withheld as well. I'm sure talking it out together will help all of you to put it behind you, but only if you're ready to hear surprising facts. It may make the difference that truly helps your marriage or breaks it depending on your reaction or response. And remember, we react with emotion, but respond with intelligence.

 

Good luck in your quest to get over the OW.

 

I disagree. She said she met her once four years ago, but that she's only one year out from the affair. That sounds like the affair hadn't started yet. Unless he didn't tell her the truth of the start time of the affair.

 

I think she's just keeping to the OW Handbook: never EVER talk to his W as nothing good could ever come from it.

 

It could be that the OW didn't want to make her real either and ignoring her accomplished that.

 

I got lucky in that the OW didn't know I knew her phone number so she answered when I called. She never intended to speak to me. She didn't want to face me. She didn't want to see or ever admit that her actions contributed to my new reality.

 

I'm not mad at her for it. I got that admission from her then boyfriend. I don't think I would ever want to face a woman if I was messing around in any way with her "man" as well.

[White Flower]

I met her once for a second almost 4 years ago (works with H) and have seen her on a few occassions since then. She's always stayed away from me to where I never would see her even though she was there.

 

I was responding to this when I said I thought the OW was trying to respect her.

 

I do believe there is a 'handbook', especially at the beginning of the A. I did get a call from the W once, but did not get a voicemail and I never called back. She gave up.

 

At the time I probably would have lied to her because it was all new to me and I didn't want to lose a good thing. If she called me now I would give her the information she was looking for. If she tried hard enough to reach me, then she deserves to get her answers.

 

So I think Anis would probably get all honesty from the OW given that the A is over and she has nothing to lose by telling her story.

 

And yes, I understand it would be hard to face her, but I would if she asked. She deserves that much, but she's got to ask for it.

[NoIDidn't]

I was responding to this when I said I thought the OW was trying to respect her.

 

I thought so, but it still seems that that was before the A even started.

 

I'm not sure, but given the timeline she's stated, it seems to be the case.

[Anis]

At the time I met her the A wasn't happening yet, it started about 6 months later, but the attraction/flirting was there. It has been about 2 1/2 yrs since the affair ended, but I got the confession about a year after it ended.

 

H and I had a ton of problems at the start of our M, one being opposite work schedules. When that changed and we had time to work on things together is when our R started turning around, b/c the love was there, incredibly immature but there still. That's also when theirs got strained. By the time he told me we were at a strong point and he wanted it off his chest and I guess thought if there was any chance of me staying it was at that point.

 

The very last detail to come out was that she told him she was pregnant, he thinks as a last resort, b/c she wanted him to tell me and at that time we weren't strong enough and I would have left him. He dragged his feet and since she was sleeping with other men at the time accused it of being someone else's. It turned out she was never pregnant to begin with, but that ended the A for good.

 

He admitted telling her we were close to ending, that we barely had sex. I'm sure when they began the A she was under the impression we would split, not that we were troubled but still trying. He called her after some huge fights we had and basically got her as support and sympathy. She was misled from the beginning.

 

I won't ask her for a meeting. I made a move which took considerable guts for me to do and I thought her lack of acknowledgment was cowardly. I accepted that closure will have to come without her, but I haven't figured out the way yet. I've heard I need to train my mind away from it, b/c I just seem to give in. But then again a meeting could be that missing piece to peace. But I'm not counting on it.

[jj33]

Anis - Im sorry for your pain. if I were in your shoes Im not sure what would give me comfort that he would never cheat again. Im not surprised she isnt meeting with you. What can she really say? Nothing she could say would be enough.

 

It sounds like this was not a great love situation for either of them. She was sleeping with other men, she faked a pregnancy -- high drama. Maybe she did love him maybe she was duped but it doesnt sound like it to me. But who cares?

 

Your H made a mistake (so to speak or erred wildly in his judgment) he was looking for comfort in the wrong way when he took up with someone else while you had problems.

 

You may never know if she is over it. The real question is has your H learned a new way of dealing with conflict in your marriage?

 

Every marriage has its ups and downs. If or when you hit another rough patch, would he be tempted to go into the arms of someone else rather than facing your marital issues and toughing out the valleys until things get better between you again?

 

You are looking at this as a competition - from that vantage point - you won.

 

In terms of taking something that was yours, hes an autonomous individual. If you need to keep him on a short leash and put blinders on when hot chicks are flirting with him and tempting him, then you may need to tag him or something because he is out and about in the world every day.

 

The issue is that he hasnt regained your trust yet. Nothing the OW can say will change that. Either you trust him when he walks out the door in the morning, or you dont. Either you worry if he goes away on business (that he may meet some impossibly seductive creature who is staying at the hotel) or you dont.

 

This OW is not the issue - your relationship with your H is the issue. Otherwise every woman he comes in contact with is a potential threat who may take something that is yours.

 

Other BSs may be able to give you more advice on how to rebuild that trust. Perhaps if you post on the infidelity board they will have some suggestions for you.

[Anis]

 

In terms of taking something that was yours, hes an autonomous individual. If you need to keep him on a short leash and put blinders on when hot chicks are flirting with him and tempting him, then you may need to tag him or something because he is out and about in the world every day.

 

The issue is that he hasnt regained your trust yet. Nothing the OW can say will change that. Either you trust him when he walks out the door in the morning, or you dont. Either you worry if he goes away on business (that he may meet some impossibly seductive creature who is staying at the hotel) or you dont.

 

This OW is not the issue - your relationship with your H is the issue. Otherwise every woman he comes in contact with is a potential threat who may take something that is yours.

 

 

You are absolutely right. It's easier to fixate on her than to deal with the issue of trusting him. Actually reading your scenario gave me the creeps and it's true - while he's next to me I'm at ease but all these other situations fill me with anxiety - I doubt that I know who he is. I'm just more refined at reacting to my fears.

 

I also think that them still working together keeps me from closing that door. But that's another issue.

 

I really appreciate everyone's support .

[White Flower]

You are absolutely right. It's easier to fixate on her than to deal with the issue of trusting him. Actually reading your scenario gave me the creeps and it's true - while he's next to me I'm at ease but all these other situations fill me with anxiety - I doubt that I know who he is. I'm just more refined at reacting to my fears.

 

I also think that them still working together keeps me from closing that door. But that's another issue.

 

I really appreciate everyone's support .

Will one of them retire soon? Is there room for transfer?

[Anis]

Will one of them retire soon? Is there room for transfer?

 

They are both young. He's pretty much just begun his career and thinks he can reach the top in that place. She's not really going anywhere and from what I understood was unhappy, but it hasn't pushed her to leave yet, although if anyone does I see it being her.

 

The issue of him not willing to quit is very sensitive. I never made it an ultimatum - the job or me - but that's about what it would take.

 

I choose my battles so I haven't gotten anywhere with that one, especially now with the economy blah blah. I say that but we are really lucky to have stable jobs. I just have to deal with it for right now. But I do indulge in those "dark fantasies" and until I rip myself out of it it drives me nuts.

[jj33]

The fact that she is a manipulative drama queen (tell him she was pregnant when she was not - MAYBE she thought she was and she wasnt but how unlikely is that...) and the fact that she was unhappy at work explains a lot. She sounds a bit lost. And if she was unhappy there she doesnt have a lot to lose if the affair went really wrong.

 

I dont know what I would do in your position. I often wonder how I would have coped if the man I was seeing had left his W. He travels a lot. She didnt care what he did when he wasnt at home. I would have cared deeply. And I think I would have been a bit anxious when he was away unless he made a supreme effot to show me that he had changed his ways and didnt need the freedom he was previously afforded.

 

Maybe you need to have a very frank and open talk with him and explain that although you have "forgiven", the whole episode has left you feeling shaky and that you need to know that he is going to handle conflict differently in the future and that he is 300% committed to being faithful to you.

 

My guess is you have done that.

[Anis]

The fact that she is a manipulative drama queen (tell him she was pregnant when she was not - MAYBE she thought she was and she wasnt but how unlikely is that...) and the fact that she was unhappy at work explains a lot. She sounds a bit lost. And if she was unhappy there she doesnt have a lot to lose if the affair went really wrong.

 

I dont know what I would do in your position. I often wonder how I would have coped if the man I was seeing had left his W. He travels a lot. She didnt care what he did when he wasnt at home. I would have cared deeply. And I think I would have been a bit anxious when he was away unless he made a supreme effot to show me that he had changed his ways and didnt need the freedom he was previously afforded.

 

Maybe you need to have a very frank and open talk with him and explain that although you have "forgiven", the whole episode has left you feeling shaky and that you need to know that he is going to handle conflict differently in the future and that he is 300% committed to being faithful to you.

 

My guess is you have done that.

 

We've had that conversation numerous times in various ways. So far he's doing what he can to show me I can trust him. But I've come to understand that he has problems building boundaries with women - friends. He inevitably takes it to the borderline of inappropriate, like discussing sex or getting flirty. That's been a topic in counseling and I can only "trust" that he's applying it.

 

I got to a point where it was poo or get off the pot - I've jumped in declaring or deciding to trust him, although there must be a better word for what that actually is - crossing my fingers with a hokey pokey around a caldron.

 

Above all I've asked to not be blind a second time. I didn't want to know the truth then, that's why I couldn't get solid proof. I'll never settle for that again.

[jj33]

I understand how you would feel that way. I used to joke that by the time he divorced hed be 80 and my karma would be that when I went to the pharmacy I would have to worry if he was hitting on his nurse...

 

But the difference is he is trying and you know that. It may just be time. Over time you may relax into it. Its a major betrayal and its not something that you get over quickly.

[White Flower]

We've had that conversation numerous times in various ways. So far he's doing what he can to show me I can trust him. But I've come to understand that he has problems building boundaries with women - friends. He inevitably takes it to the borderline of inappropriate, like discussing sex or getting flirty. That's been a topic in counseling and I can only "trust" that he's applying it.

 

I got to a point where it was poo or get off the pot - I've jumped in declaring or deciding to trust him, although there must be a better word for what that actually is - crossing my fingers with a hokey pokey around a caldron.

 

Above all I've asked to not be blind a second time. I didn't want to know the truth then, that's why I couldn't get solid proof. I'll never settle for that again.

Anis,

 

I believe we all choose to trust people. Every time we trust someone, we choose to do so. Trust is truly a gift to the person we trust.

 

There are some people in our lives whom we really don't have to think about it so much yet when we trust them we are choosing to do so. Then there are others who we will always be suspicious of and making the choice to trust them is all the more difficult. Yet, it is a choice. The day you 'jumped in and declared to trust him' was the day your H should have thanked you.

[Heather1]

I just hope he's telling the truth about the drama queen stuff. Funny, the OW hears the stuff about the W, but this might be what they say about the OW?

 

I met OM a year or so before anything happened. We were both in crisis mode when something did happen, or I'm sure we would have remained casual friends.

 

If the W were to call me & ask questions, I'd tell her a few crucial things to why it happened in the first place (for him). Unfortunately, I don't think a rational conversation would ever happen. He actually really loves her.

[Anis]

Anis,

 

I believe we all choose to trust people. Every time we trust someone, we choose to do so. Trust is truly a gift to the person we trust.

 

There are some people in our lives whom we really don't have to think about it so much yet when we trust them we are choosing to do so. Then there are others who we will always be suspicious of and making the choice to trust them is all the more difficult. Yet, it is a choice. The day you 'jumped in and declared to trust him' was the day your H should have thanked you.

 

I agree with you WF. Now, not before, I can believe the small situations - home an hour or so later, helping a friend for half a day. But I still don't trust that a seductive woman on his travels would be denied. And I didn't worry about that before, but I thought I knew this man's boundaries. Of course I was so wrong. And there's a part of me that still worries about the OW. Are there still feelings in there that could come back? There was always a chemistry between them. But I'm choosing to believe his words and actions now even though I was lied to so many times before. I don't know, just the same old race track in my head.

[Anis]

I just hope he's telling the truth about the drama queen stuff. Funny, the OW hears the stuff about the W, but this might be what they say about the OW?

 

I met OM a year or so before anything happened. We were both in crisis mode when something did happen, or I'm sure we would have remained casual friends.

 

If the W were to call me & ask questions, I'd tell her a few crucial things to why it happened in the first place (for him). Unfortunately, I don't think a rational conversation would ever happen. He actually really loves her.

 

It's true, in the course of his telling me the "truth" he lied every step of the way. It went from sex twice, 3, 4, 5 times, 6 month A to a year to a yr and half. It was casual to they said I love you, but not in "that way":sick:.

 

I was losing it emotionally and one day said - all or nothing. All truth right now or we're done. If you tell me the truth about every aspect of everything I will stay here and work it out with you. If you tell me you slept with her yesterday I will stay with you. If you lie about one more thing I won't spend another day here.

 

That's when the pregnancy bit came out. He didn't want me to know b/c that meant he was doing her without a condom and that also extended his timeline. It also made her unable to let go, and he tried to make me think she was over it immediately after. At the end of the conversation I felt, for the first time in a year, that I was getting truth from him. I learned a lot that night.