marty7 Posted May 13, 2009 Posted May 13, 2009 Many think of jewish men as good husbands. Therefore, are there non-jewish women that will target jewish men because non jewish men do not want to deal with their baggage? I think some of these women get away with murder since the jewish guy is a good family guy. There are exceptions of course. Have you found jewish-husband seeking cougars other men would not bother with?
JustLooking123 Posted May 13, 2009 Posted May 13, 2009 I have never heard of or observed this phenomenon. And I am confused by your question(s). Why would they put up with some woman's baggage? What does that have to do with being a "good family man?" Why are they letting women get away with murder? If this is happening, neither party is a good catch (one has no spine, the other is getting away with murder, whatever that means).
Trialbyfire Posted May 13, 2009 Posted May 13, 2009 Whoah, that's pretty convoluted! I don't necessarily think people target specific other races, unless they have a fetish or are using generalized concepts of Jewish = wealthy.
curiousnycgirl Posted May 13, 2009 Posted May 13, 2009 Actually yes I have heard of plenty of non jewish women who target jewish men for marriage. I have even known a few of these women. With the advent of dating web sites, a whole new world has opened up for these women as they join JDate to snare their unsuspecting jewish men. (a family friend met a very nice christian woman on JDate) The theory is that jewish mothers are so overbearing, they have raised their sons to treat women well. The related theory is that jews value education and money and therefore a jewish man will be a good provider. I am a jewish woman who never dated out of my faith until 4.5 years ago, when I started to see my current b/f. My parents were insane when they realized he wasn't jewish. 4.5 years later, they have finally realized that he makes me happy, and is likely here to stay. They also realized that none of those jewish men I dated for 20 plus years made me happy. Truth is I am not likely to ever go out with another jewish man.
quankanne Posted May 13, 2009 Posted May 13, 2009 to be honest, I'd never really though of dating a Jewish man when I was single, mostly because where I grew up, you couldn't swing a cat by it's tail without hitting a Catholic. In my case, Mexican or Polish ... however, the standard for a longterm relationship is based on what kind of person that guy is, be he Jewish or not, ethic or not. Good decent guy = good dating material, possibly even marriage material.
Jersey Shortie Posted May 13, 2009 Posted May 13, 2009 I have a thing for Jewish guys but I am not Jewish. I like big noses and dark hair and they fit that stereotype often. Also, yes Jewish men do treat women a certain way sometimes that can be more respectful then the average man. And I like their strong family values. Just stereotyping here though. not al lJewish men are like that of course. I don't get the OPs question either or why Jewish grown men would be "unsuspecting victims" of anything.
Okfine Posted May 13, 2009 Posted May 13, 2009 I don't get the question, do non-Jewish women target Jewish men because who does not want to deal with whom's baggage!?!? I find Jewish men appealing intellectually speaking, and that's big for me. Not to generalize but my experience has been they tend to be more culturally well rounded. Fom a physical standpoint some not all have a strong sex appeal I respond to. curiousnycgirl: I am curious to know what it was that you see in your non-Jewish man that has made your realize you don't want to go back? Funny how we are coming from opposite sides of the sepectrum, maybe we just reach a point in our lives where we seek something completely different to what we already know?
curiousnycgirl Posted May 14, 2009 Posted May 14, 2009 OKFine - I grew up in a very religous environment - we were all very cloistered and typically get married very young. In fact I was engaged when I was 18 - and had my fiancee not died unexpectedly - I would have been a very happy married lady with a bunch of kids ready to start their lives - never having worked a day in my life. Perhaps the good ones marry young, so that by the time I was ready to date again they were all taken - who knows. However I found the jewish men I met later (let's say they were age 28+) were all a bunch of mamas boys who were intimidated by my career success, etc. Oh and when the going got tough (specifically my family is very scary) they RAN. My b/f graduated from an ivy school undergrad and a top 2 MBA program after that. Intellectually we are comparable - have lots to talk about and are both open to things that are new to us (ok truth be told, I can't get him to the opera, but I can live with that). We are also both very outdoorsy/active people (not at all usual for NYC jews). Everyone on this board is aware of the fact that he's been a bit stunted professionally for the past 4 years (so alpha can rest assured I am not a gold digger) - but I truly believe that will finally resolve in the next few weeks. AND he has stuck it out despite my family being just about as hellacious as they can be to him. He's been there for me. Yup that's about it - does that help?
westernxer Posted May 14, 2009 Posted May 14, 2009 gold-diggers generally don't care about religion HAHAHA You alleging Jewish men have fatter wallets than the rest of us?
Jersey Shortie Posted May 14, 2009 Posted May 14, 2009 I don't think AlphaMale ever heard about a little thing called "the Jewish Money Roll".
xpaperxcutx Posted May 14, 2009 Posted May 14, 2009 Huh? when I date i don't really consider religion. The guy I'm casually seeing is jewish, but I never really thought about his religion until he had brought it up. And even then, I didn't really hold it against him. Why would women want to date jewish men just because they're supposedly wealthy and treats their women right? I think alot of men treat their women right if they grew up with great family and mothers who they respect. I mean my family is buddhist and my uncle is as respecting to his mother as they come. So being Jewish wouldn't exactly play any role except maybe they just attract alot of gold diggers?
Isolde Posted May 14, 2009 Posted May 14, 2009 Another vote for Jewish guys being more intellectually well rounded, but other than that, there's nothing about them I'm more attracted to than non-Jews, and I guess I'm a little intimidated by the complications that can arise from them dating non-Jews.
curiousnycgirl Posted May 14, 2009 Posted May 14, 2009 Huh? when I date i don't really consider religion. The guy I'm casually seeing is jewish, but I never really thought about his religion until he had brought it up. And even then, I didn't really hold it against him. Oh but he may have an issue with the fact that you are not jewish - should the relationship get serious. According to judaism, religion of the child is that of the mother - so either you'll have to convert to marry - or your children will have to be converted upon birth. So being Jewish wouldn't exactly play any role except maybe they just attract alot of gold diggers? Huge misconception that all jews are wealthy - trust me we're not!
xpaperxcutx Posted May 14, 2009 Posted May 14, 2009 Oh but he may have an issue with the fact that you are not jewish - should the relationship get serious. According to judaism, religion of the child is that of the mother - so either you'll have to convert to marry - or your children will have to be converted upon birth. That's why I said we're casually seeing each other. I suppose we'll talk about it if we ever get there? Did you ever ask your bf to convert? Since he's non-jewish?
Okfine Posted May 14, 2009 Posted May 14, 2009 Couriousgirl that was awesome! Thanks for the detailed explanation. I can definitely draw some parallels to my own experiences. I thought it was due to the dynamic I had in my particular situation but I see now it might just come with the territory. Interesting! I heard that when the woman is the ousider it is a lot harder to be accepted into the family but when it's the man who is the non-Jewish, parents can be more accomodating, is this true? Though in your case it seems like it was either or, your parents were tough period. Glad they came around for your sake!
curiousnycgirl Posted May 14, 2009 Posted May 14, 2009 OKFine - you first have to understand that the disparity among jews (chassidic, ultra orthodox, orthodox, modern orthodox, conservative, reform) is almost as diverse as that between christians. However for the most part all are very rooted in tradition. I grew up modern orthodox, religious school K-12 - which equates to being in a little ghetto despite the fact that I actually grew up in one of the most diverse cities in the world. My family feels that it is either their way or the highway and their way is the ancient european way (my family is in the US only because of WWII - and we went from being a rather large group, to only 3 siblings making it out). The amusing thing is that their life is pretty much a big lie - it's all about keeping up appearances. Give my parents a dime, they spend a dollar. As the "spinster" (I got that title when I hit 30 and was still unmarried) daughter the expectation was that I would give up my life and support them. Yup that didn't happen! My b/f on the other hand is from a very small town in Wisconsin. His father was career army (jews don't go to the army unless it is the Israeli) who died when he was young. He grew up hunting etc. My parents were HORRIFIED. However he is honest, and sincere. He supports my charity work (my parents never have) and as I've already said, he's quite intellectually stimulating. Oops I digressed. You asked about the difference in experience for men vs. women. Again it depends. I've known some families to sit shiva (a week of mourning when someone in your nuclear family dies) when their child married out of the faith. As I said earlier typically it is harder for guys to marry out of the faith, because the religion of a child is determined by the mother. Personally I did not start dating outside the faith until I realized I had missed the chance to have kids. I always felt it was important for both parents to raise a child in the same religion (just my opinion) - but once that past for me - hey what the heck! A dear girlfriend of mine married a muslim guy. They have a son and there is no question he is being raised jewish. Another friend has daughters with her christian husband - and again the same, they will be raised jewish. I also know jewish guys who would not even get engaged until their g/f's converted. I know a lovely girl who was raised jewish - went to Israel when she was 18 - and was told she was not a jew because her mother wasn't. It devastated her - thankfully she got over it. Hope this helped - feel like i've just droned on and on.
Okfine Posted May 14, 2009 Posted May 14, 2009 Yeah I do understand the disparity and the more hardcore the practice the more stringent the rules apply, should have been more specific... In general terms I was questioning in terms of the women being less accepted than a man and it is precisely for the exact reason you poposed that I had heard, which was for the progeny to remain and inherit the faith. I forgot about that one very important detail. LOL It does happen but keeping in line with the topic of this thread, or at least what appears to be the topic in what I can decipher, is that if a woman actively seeks out a Jewish man too many factors do need to fall into place before that could be a viable union. Where as if it is the man being the active pursuer considering he is being honest in his intentions and not just looking to kill time with a "shikse", that all those things would have been taken into consideration in terms of how to deal with the family in the long run. Like every culture/or way of conditioning I am sure it has its pros and cons, I still think in terms of cultural richness and intellectual wealth the Jewish take the cake! ;-) You haven't droned on at all!
curiousnycgirl Posted May 14, 2009 Posted May 14, 2009 One important point to note however, once you've converted to Judaism, you are accepted as a jew by everyone (well it probably needs to be an orthodox conversion for EVERYONE) - however getting to that point can often be tricky. To "test" one's committment to the religion a jew is supposed to try to talk a prospective convert out of conversion. We are supposed to tell them how hard it is to be a jew, keeping kosher is a pain in the butt, and of coures remember hitler! But again that is simply to make sure the person really wants it. Once you're a jew you are accpeted with open arms. So it's really not an exclusive club or anything.
alphamale Posted May 14, 2009 Posted May 14, 2009 Once you're a jew you are accpeted with open arms. So it's really not an exclusive club or anything. thats not what i've heard. my understanding is one can only be a true jew if their natural birth mother was jew. converts are treated as 2nd or 3rd class citizens. arabs and moslems are treated as 4th and 5th class citizens
Okfine Posted May 14, 2009 Posted May 14, 2009 Alpha, I think that applies more to Isreal which tends to be more homogenic, but I could be wrong. That is my understanding at least.... Curious: I don't know why but I like that! It's a tough club to get into but once you are in you are good as gold. Trying to convince my folks of my giving up my faith, that's another story....
Glenn Quagmire Posted May 14, 2009 Posted May 14, 2009 Sorry to go off topic but why have jews been kicked around so much in history? me and a few buddies went a coke bender back in college and talked about this for like 7 hours. Seriously, what the **** did jews do to people in the modern world? Jews seem so meek and harmless yet Hitler chose THEM as the race/religion that needed to be cleansed. Why? I can see blacks or mexicans ... they're at least recognizable and let's face it, some generalizations exist for a reason but is being cheap and smelling bad worth genocide? During our bender, the best we could come up with is that jews essentially invented the concept of lending, and popularized the idea of inflating interest rates in the most recent century. Still,l I can't imagine thats what keeps the Gaza strip aflame.
mortensorchid Posted May 14, 2009 Posted May 14, 2009 Hmm, I was curious about this thread based on the title. And I see what is being said here. I dated a Jewish man a few years ago, we are still friendly. I admired him quite a bit now that I think of it, and still do. He's smart, driven, intellectual, and doesn't beat about the bush to get the things that he wants. He and I just were not a match, but he's still a friend. I admire him for what he's achieved in life, but knowing his cultural heritage dictates that he, unlike non-jews, learn and motivate. Providers? Well, I guess that goes hand in hand with being a driven person. But that's a stereotype, not always.
Isolde Posted May 14, 2009 Posted May 14, 2009 thats not what i've heard. my understanding is one can only be a true jew if their natural birth mother was jew. converts are treated as 2nd or 3rd class citizens. arabs and moslems are treated as 4th and 5th class citizens Technically converts are the same as natural born Jews and conversion isn't even allowed to be mentioned, as though it never happened. In the Reform and Conservative branches, there is nothing converts are barred from in the congregation. Individual reactions to the convert however, may be discriminatory.
curiousnycgirl Posted May 14, 2009 Posted May 14, 2009 thats not what i've heard. my understanding is one can only be a true jew if their natural birth mother was jew. converts are treated as 2nd or 3rd class citizens. arabs and moslems are treated as 4th and 5th class citizens Alpha - those who behave in that manner are not following the rules. Of course it happens - but that doesn't mean it's right! I will admit to finding it very funny that my b/f was stunned when an arab couple moved in next door and I was the first to invite them to dinner - and we have since become close friends. I keep telling him people don't make war - governments make war! I grew up afraid of Chassidic people, later I was disdainful of them because they would have so many children with no visible means of support. But have since met folks in Chabad - and I truly believe they exemplify jewish values. They are warm and welcoming and non judgemental, they simply provide the opportunity for a jew to follow the rules, if they want to.
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