Long Term EA - Serious or Not?

[HookedOnHim2]

My WH had a long term EA with a fellow coworker of ours (has lasted close to 5 years). On D-Day #1, he claims that she meant nothing to him, they never had sex, it was just a close friendship with a woman and nothing else.

 

I told him since it meant nothing to him, he can go NC immediately and forever and if he doesn't, that means he no longer wants to be married.

 

Well we ended up having a D-Day #2 six months later and I then told him I wanted a divorce.

 

I guess that woke him up a little bit because he put away his secret prepaid phone (that's how I found out he was still in contact with her). Its in the closet and he has not left our home without me since January.

 

He has not apologized, nor has he shown any remorse and he feels that he's done nothing wrong but be a friend to her.

 

She has been avoiding me like the plague! I've known her for the past 20 years and my confrontation with her was not pretty. I totally "went off" on her in the parking garage of our job and made her cry. She said she would never talk to him again.

 

I think she stopped talking to him after our confrontation because on D-Day #2 he said that he had called her a few times but she didnt answer her phone and didnt call him back.

 

I also think he is punishing me for breaking up his relationship with her by withdrawing sexually and emotionally. We barely have sex and never show affection towards me but we take care of our business as far as the kids, the house and our outside interests.

 

He is doing a lot of husbandly things - more than he did before the A. We have totally lost our "loving connection" with each other.

 

I noticed that he texted her on Mother's Day. I didnt say anything, I will wait and see if he does it again. I don't have that feeling in my gut so it was probably a "happy mother's day" message.

 

I'm not as upset about this as I was in the beginning (July 2008). I've had time to cry, think, yell, shout, accuse and all the other emotions a BW has when you find out your husband has been unfaithful.

 

We've been married 22 years with two kids and he doesnt want to lose that, but I think he wants to eat his cake. Wants both of us. Well, can't happen.

 

Is it possible to have a long term relationship with someone and when you realize you will permanently lose your family because of that relationship, you dropped them totally?

 

I want to believe him when he says "she's nothing to me".

 

Is that possible?

[Owl]

Marriage counseling. Insist on it.

 

There are a couple of books to check out too..."Surviving an Affair", and "His Needs/Her Needs"...both can give you a good idea on what steps to take to recover your marriage.

 

There should be NO contact whatsoever....that includes his text on Mother's Day.

 

Right now, he may still be suffering "withdrawls" at the end of his affair...affairs are addictive, like drugs. And he's going to go through withdrawl symptoms just like if he ended a drug addiction. Anger/depression/etc...

 

It's POSSIBLE to recover a marriage from an emotional affair...I know...I live in one that's recovered now.

 

But...it's NOT easy. It's hard work, and it will eventually require hard work on both parts to make happen.

 

First step...get into marriage counseling, and INSIST that he talk about the affair and all that led to it, what went on during it, etc...

 

He needs to divulge every secret you think you need to hear...he needs to rebuild your trust in him.

[carhill]

Has she known your H for 20 years?

 

Were you and she friends in the past?

 

What evidence do you have that the contact was anything more than platonic?

 

Will he go to MC?

 

What do you think would happen if you filed for divorce tomorrow?

[Reggie]

The evidence seems to me to be the fact that he has a secret cell phone and has tried to hide his recent contact, the Mothers' Day text. Pretty damning in my mind.

As well, his reaction, the witholding of affection is a huge sign that she encroached on more than a mere friendship.

One of the things I did not undertand until I did a lot of thinking and reading on this is that the type of defensive attitude, the resentment etc being displayed is not the normal reactiuon of an innocent person.

At first blush, this reaction seems to make sense, righteous indignation due to a false accusation. But, in reality, when you think about it, it is not at all like the reaction of a truly innocent person concerned with quelling a spouse's insecurity.

Rather, a truly innocent person who cared for his spouse might have some initial consternation and bewilderment over his spouse's misimpression. But, that is soon over and real concern for the spouse's insecurity should take over. A desire to talk about what has given the false impression and concerted efforts to get accurate information to the forefront would start. There would be worry about the emotional well being of the distraught spouse. None of this is being displayed.

In fact, the opposite is being demonstated, punishment by witholding affection and physical intimacy. This type of behavior, I am sure many of us have seen, is a huge red flag for infidelity.

I would lay odds this has been more than emotional and that there has been more contact than the recently discovered text. Disposable phones are easil obtained and the one laying in the closet is simply his old one.

No way has he not had any opportunity since January to contact her.

So, do you feel you want to remain in a relationship where you have had to be a watchdog and may need to remain so? What does he say about a polygraph? (I think it is pretty clear what his response would be: Fake indignation, anger, accussing you of paranoia and jealousy. Again this type of reaction is a pretty clear sign that you are onto something).

[HookedOnHim2]

Has she known your H for 20 years?

 

Were you and she friends in the past?

 

What evidence do you have that the contact was anything more than platonic?

 

Will he go to MC?

 

What do you think would happen if you filed for divorce tomorrow?

 

1. I worked there before they did. She came, then I got him a job there. (What a mistake!!!!)

 

2. I tracked our family cell phone records back two years and it shows calls to her cell, home and work number. Between the two of them, I saw calls 4-5 times a day, 7 days a week.

 

She's single (divorced), lives alone. She's the sexy dressing looking lady at an office. The kind that the guys always look at and say they'd like to "hit that". She smiles and switches around getting the guys attention. She has very few woman friends and is known to get overly friendly with men who are married or committed to someone.

 

My WH had prostate cancer surgery two years ago and isnt that good in the sex department anymore and he says he would never embarrass himself and try to have sex with someone. He still wears Depends. So he probably isnt doing anything with her now, but before the surgery, he was fine.

 

There was a rumor around the office about 15 years ago that they were having an affair and I brought it to his attention and he denied it and I never pursued it. Wish I had of.

 

This has made me lose a lot of respect for him and I do not love him like I used to. I've been taking care of myself right now (joining the gym, losing weight, saving money, paying off my personal bills) just in case I find myself single. I'll be prepared.

[HookedOnHim2]

The evidence seems to me to be the fact that he has a secret cell phone and has tried to hide his recent contact, the Mothers' Day text. Pretty damning in my mind.

As well, his reaction, the witholding of affection is a huge sign that she encroached on more than a mere friendship.

One of the things I did not undertand until I did a lot of thinking and reading on this is that the type of defensive attitude, the resentment etc being displayed is not the normal reactiuon of an innocent person.

At first blush, this reaction seems to make sense, righteous indignation due to a false accusation. But, in reality, when you think about it, it is not at all like the reaction of a truly innocent person concerned with quelling a spouse's insecurity.

Rather, a truly innocent person who cared for his spouse might have some initial consternation and bewilderment over his spouse's misimpression. But, that is soon over and real concern for the spouse's insecurity should take over. A desire to talk about what has given the false impression and concerted efforts to get accurate information to the forefront would start. There would be worry about the emotional well being of the distraught spouse. None of this is being displayed.

In fact, the opposite is being demonstated, punishment by witholding affection and physical intimacy. This type of behavior, I am sure many of us have seen, is a huge red flag for infidelity.

I would lay odds this has been more than emotional and that there has been more contact than the recently discovered text. Disposable phones are easil obtained and the one laying in the closet is simply his old one.

No way has he not had any opportunity since January to contact her.

So, do you feel you want to remain in a relationship where you have had to be a watchdog and may need to remain so? What does he say about a polygraph? (I think it is pretty clear what his response would be: Fake indignation, anger, accussing you of paranoia and jealousy. Again this type of reaction is a pretty clear sign that you are onto something).

 

 

Whenever I've tried to bring it up, he gets extremely angry and acts like he wants to pack and leave. It doesnt get me upset anymore. I just tell him if he feels like leaving, then "step"! He's still here.

 

I'm going to bring it up again next week. This weekend is our daughter's college graduation and I don't want it to be a bad weekend so I'll keep my peace until thats over with.

[steve978]

I wouldn't care too much about her being nothing. I would care more about you be everything to him!!! If you are everything to him, he should have NO problem doing anything it takes to make you feel that way. If Van Gogh cut off his ear for love, he can stop talking to her and make her disappear. Absolutely no contact !!!!

[carhill]

OP...

 

1. Will he go to MC?

 

2. What would happen if you filed for divorce tomorrow?

 

BTW, there's always going to be another graduation/birthday/anniversary/special event. People's lives are full of them. There's never a good time to deliver bad news. Your graduating daughter likely knows what's going on. Children always do. "Peace" is a relative term.

 

Considering what you've added, I'd be inclined to go with plan B from marriagebuilders. Sorry...

[travelgirl]

I think I agree with carhill. If there was a rumor that they were having an affair 15 years ago and they have been having a confirmed EA for 5 years, D-day was June 2008 and he is STILL sending texts in May 2009 - you need to go to plan B. You have already done Plan A (better yourself, forced NC, let him stay in the house) but it isn't working. He is still taking advantage of you.

 

I am sorry but you are the mother of HIS children. What the F is he texting her for on Mother's Day, a sunday, a holiday in honor of you?? I would have FLIPPED out.

 

And no one else mentioned this but how in world do they not have contact if the STILL work together. If they have been close for decades and this affair has been going on behind your back, there is NO WAY they will ever stop contacting each other if they still see each other. I have a feeling there is a lot more going on then the little blurbs you have been scoping out. He seems to be hiding behind the anger/guilt.

 

I would flat out say:

"You promised no contact, you contacted her on Mother's Day which is a total slap in the face to me, so you need to move out after daughter's graduation. If questioned, YOU will explain to our children and others why you are moving out. Your so-called friendship, and your addiction to it, means more to you then our marriage and my respect at this time. No more excuses. If you want to try and salvage anything of the past 22 years, you will tell me all the secrets and lies, you will lose all contact with her even if that means you need to change jobs, you will set up MC for us and you will give me time to decide if I even want to take you back. If you have anymore contact with her from this day forward, I will serve you with divorce papers."

 

You need to show him you are serious. He is showing no respect towards you and if you continue down this path, you are showing no respect for yourself.

[HookedOnHim2]

You know, you are right. He is disrespecting me and I'm sitting back letting him do it. I've tried to show affection to him and he just lays there like a stone. He did it this morning. No reciprocity. Funny thing though, my feelings weren't hurt this time and I was so glad. Before when I would try to be romantic and got nothing back, I would go in the bathroom and have a good cry. It really didn't bother me this time. Is that my heart telling me that I've had enough?

 

Guess what, he caught me red handed looking in his cell phone this morning. I quickly put it down but he saw me. On the ride to work this morning I was waiting for him to mention it but he didnt. If he had asked me why I did that, I was ready to tell him "because I don't trust you".

 

I feel like things are about to come to a head anyway because this lack of affection is not working for me. I do not plan to be married to a man, and just be his roommate. I could be doing someone, I mean something else. Right now he is interferring in my future by being with me when its obvious he would rather be with someone else.

 

I kept telling him that there is no way he could be platonic friends with someone he has been in contact with that long. I told him that no one has that much conversation with a member of the opposite sex unless they are "courting". I also said that in order to talk to someone that much on the phone, that person is on your mind - a lot. Of course, he says its in my mind, I should let it go, I'm making too much of this, he doesnt want no one else but me, etc. - But, he won't touch me like a man who's in love with his wife. I've told him some time ago that if this keeps up (no affection), he's going to find himself a single man. Maybe he's doing this on purpose so I will ask him to leave because he doesnt have the guts to just tell me he wants out of the marriage? But if that's the case, why is he doing so much physically to make me happy? On everything else, he's been a perfect husband except for the emotional closeness with me. We laugh, do things together, and with the kids, he is now giving me his entire paycheck and I decide how much he should have until the next payday. So many things he's done since D-Day #1 that were extremely thoughtful and kind of him.

 

Then when I look at the other side of him, I'm ready to end the marriage. No affection, little sex (and not good either), no kisses (unless I initiate). What's the point in being married if I can't have that or am I asking too much? Do couples who've been married for 20 plus years eventually stop all the passionate hugs and kisses with their spouse and turn into roommates?

 

I'll bet the answer is no. Its just my husband, or roommate who isnt doing me any good and I'll be better off without him.

 

Do I ask him to leave now, or wait until I've filed the divorce? Whats the customary way of doing this? The house is in my name (he quit claimed it to me years ago).

[travelgirl]

I think you should just tell him he needs to leave. Don't mention divorce but say we need to separate. Let him know why. Not only the "friendship" of another woman and his disrespect by going behind your back, but his lack of emotionally or physical intimacy with you. Tell him you know there is more going on then what is on the surface right now and can't go on living like this.

 

Part of his lack of physical intimacy could be his surgery you mentioned too. Plus with the surgery, age and kids moving out, he is a prime candidate for a mid-life crisis. She boosts his ego and you don't. It is messing with his mind. I am not condoning his actions though and neither should you. But, you have 22 years and I really think MC could really work for you but at this point, I don't think he would respond well unless he realized you are serious and this is a crisis. If you acted nice and said "please lets go to MC" I think he wouldn't want to go and if he did, he wouldn't open up. Just tell him you need time apart and if he says no and wants to work at things, then tell him to set up MC for you both. But after reading your last post, I still think it would be a good thing for you to both have some time apart and only meet to go to MC.

 

Good Luck

[HookedOnHim2]

 

Part of his lack of physical intimacy could be his surgery you mentioned too. Plus with the surgery, age and kids moving out, he is a prime candidate for a mid-life crisis. She boosts his ego and you don't. It is messing with his mind. I am not condoning his actions though and neither should you.

 

Just tell him you need time apart and if he says no and wants to work at things, then tell him to set up MC for you both. But after reading your last post, I still think it would be a good thing for you to both have some time apart and only meet to go to MC.

 

Good Luck

 

I agree. Time apart might clear his mind and allow him to think rationally. Right now she feeds his ego, then he comes home. If he was in a position to be with her more openly and for longer periods of time, he might find that she is not the person he's fantasized her to be.

 

I've known her for 20 years. The 'scuttlebutt" around the office about her - she's divorced, lives alone. She has had run-ins with other wives on her close friendship with their husbands. She dates and is used to coming and going on a regular basis and does not want a man living with her. She just wants them "to do" for her. So if I tell him we need to live apart for awhile, he will go to her and she will either let him temporarily, or tell him he cant move in with her.

 

There's personal things about my husband that only I know about he wants it to stay that way. There are things about my husband that would bug her if he lived with her. So even if he went there, he wouldnt be there long and would see her in a different light and then he will want to come home.

 

The only problem with that is that once he leaves, my new life will start. I have no intention of waiting for him to get himself together and decide who he wants to be with. Once he walks out that door, his choice was made and I don't intend to look back.

 

I'm only willing to take so much. If he can't help work on our 22 year marriage, then it will have to be over.

 

I mentioned in another post that I figured out one of our problems.

 

He needs to be needed. I am an independent woman and don't really need him and thats how I've lived. The OW is a needy woman. She needs men to talk to her, do things for her and he stepped right into that.

 

What I've been doing for the past few months is to let loose alot of the responsibilities of our home and children and let him handle it and he's been doing a great job. It's put a little spring in his step because he's needed at home. He's been doing things around the house, for me and the kids that he's never done before. Major decisions I now talk to him about instead of making the decisions and telling him about it after the fact. When the kids have a crisis or major question, I tell them to "talk to your daddy". His chest puffs out when they do that. He talks about them more and has taken more of an interest in what they are doing.

 

He enjoys doing things I need him to do. He smiles and says "you dont know what you are doing, let me do that" and I smile and let him, instead of saying "I dont need you to do it, I can do it myself".

 

So I'm giving him what he needed and now he needs to give me what I need which is emotional closeness and we will be fine. Not taking care of my needs makes me feel that its because he has feelings for OW and not me anymore.

 

Maybe with TIME away from OW and his new responsibilities that he has with our home, children and me, she will one day be just a memory and then he will want to embrace me, kiss me deeply and tell me he loves me.

 

Sound like some romantic movie doesnt it? And if I'm wrong, I'm emotionally prepared to walk away from this marriage.

[Windy27]

1. I worked there before they did. She came, then I got him a job there. (What a mistake!!!!)

 

2. I tracked our family cell phone records back two years and it shows calls to her cell, home and work number. Between the two of them, I saw calls 4-5 times a day, 7 days a week.

 

She's single (divorced), lives alone. She's the sexy dressing looking lady at an office. The kind that the guys always look at and say they'd like to "hit that". She smiles and switches around getting the guys attention. She has very few woman friends and is known to get overly friendly with men who are married or committed to someone.

 

My WH had prostate cancer surgery two years ago and isnt that good in the sex department anymore and he says he would never embarrass himself and try to have sex with someone. He still wears Depends. So he probably isnt doing anything with her now, but before the surgery, he was fine.

 

There was a rumor around the office about 15 years ago that they were having an affair and I brought it to his attention and he denied it and I never pursued it. Wish I had of.

 

This has made me lose a lot of respect for him and I do not love him like I used to. I've been taking care of myself right now (joining the gym, losing weight, saving money, paying off my personal bills) just in case I find myself single. I'll be prepared.

 

They were definately in an affair. Most likely an emotional and physical affair. But, I don't think they sleep with each other on a regular basis, like weekly. Maybe once a month or once every other month. If they have sex six times a year, chance are, you won't catch them in bed or in a motel together, but just the phone records. Other than teenage girls, no one talk to another person who they are not involved with on a daily basis, unless they have someting to gain, either money or sex. Since it's not business related, it must be the latter.

[HookedOnHim2]

They were definately in an affair. Most likely an emotional and physical affair. But, I don't think they sleep with each other on a regular basis, like weekly. Maybe once a month or once every other month. If they have sex six times a year, chance are, you won't catch them in bed or in a motel together, but just the phone records. Other than teenage girls, no one talk to another person who they are not involved with on a daily basis, unless they have someting to gain, either money or sex. Since it's not business related, it must be the latter.

 

 

I guess the fear of us breaking up is keeping him from just telling the truth. Instead, he is reacting in an angry matter to scare me into stop talking about it and then he's insulting me with "you have to let this go", "I'm where I want to be", "you have to get past this", etc. His reasons for staying (I'm guessing) suck too. It could be because she doesnt want him to move in with her (he's not in a financial position to get his own place), he loves me but wants to love her too, doesnt want to leave the kids (son is 16).

 

I dont want to feel like he's using me and that thought is in my mind all the time. My self esteem would take a hugh hit if I'm correct and my fear is that this will make me hate him and our breakup will get ugly. One of my problems that I need to work on is when someone hurts me, I try to get even. I can be very vindictive and my husband knows that. I think he might be just a little afraid of what I might do if I knew they had a real relationship going on for years contrary to what he keeps telling me it was.

 

Maybe I'm thinking too much on this and it isnt as complicated as I'm making it out to be.