zhsoj Posted May 11, 2009 Posted May 11, 2009 These are some ruminations of mine that stem from a recent (and my first) dating experience. I thought I'd share them here as it helps for me to write them down, and I'd appreciate any feedback on the viability of my conclusions... First off I'm not at all confident in my self when it comes to dating. I think that that largely has to do with my inexperience; though that is pretty difficult to resolve when you are an average-guy with no self-confidence in a society that expects the guy to by and large do the initiating. Anyways, the problem I've been mulling over pertains to how to balance the societal expectation of the guy doing the initiating, and my own need to have my affection be reciprocated. In order to overcome my lack of confidence I approached the recent situation with a carpe diem attitude; fully expecting to be rejected pretty quickly. Instead what I learned is that women really are as confusing to date as everyone says. I found myself "getting dates" with her, but pretty much always having to initiate contact. I even found the courage to finally ask to kiss her and as far as I know that went okay. But what never happened was a clear rejection or a clear indication of interest. Instead I got this semi-enthusiasm when we'd meet up, and then a seeming certainty that if I never contacted her again, I'd never hear from her again. I managed to try that out twice and after a week and a half I was reasonably reassured I was correct. Weather or not she ever really was interested and I simply never made "the move" is beside the point. What I've learned is that I simply need more reciprocation. A lot more. Not having a clear rejection is simply not enough for me to continue to put myself on the line. This leads me to think though that the resulting tightrope that I need to walk is almost impossibly thin. On one side if I don't initiate I know exactly how much interest that generates. On the other side if I initiate too much I'm left far too exposed for my own good. I'm thinking that while "carpe diem" is great in theory, in reality for me it just doesn't work. If I error on the side of caution by only initiating a little and then leaving the ball in "her" court, I may loose a few good ones due to a simple miscommunication of interest, but then that's better compatibility-wise for the long term anyways. I'm not really sure how to go about demanding more from "her" next time. Maybe it would just come naturally after the first date with the right person? Maybe I should be aggressive during the first few dates and then stop and see if she is going to reciprocate at all? I know this sounds like "playing games", but I think it sounds reasonable for me to ask this much.
BCCA Posted May 11, 2009 Posted May 11, 2009 Self esteem is hard to improve while youre looking to date at the same time. You might want to start by sparking up conversations with women WITHOUT trying to ask them out. That way, youre building up your confidence that they WILL talk to you, without having it leave a bad taste in your mouth if they arent romantically interested. There is nothing worse than having a good long conversation with someone, and then right when you ask for their number, youre shot down. Ruins the whole experience. On one side if I don't initiate I know exactly how much interest that generates. On the other side if I initiate too much I'm left far too exposed for my own good Thats dating, sadly. Women usually do next to nothing to let you know they are interested, and youre left wondering if youre being creepy by trying or showing interest. And if the woman likes you, its fine, otherwise, youre a creep lol Just be yourself. Not everyone will like you, but everyone that matters will.
Okfine Posted May 12, 2009 Posted May 12, 2009 People think that confidence in dating only comes from lots of experience and I think that is somewhat of an illusion or misconception You don’t need a lot of experience what you need is self-awareness. Just enough awareness to know how you will handle rejection or pain because this is the biggest confidence downer and our biggest fear, we want to avoid pain at all costs. Ultimately, confidence in any realm is having confidence in yourself. Does that make sense? In other words don't let your lack of experience intimidate you from going out there and getting what you feel is right for you. On the topic of what you need, we all need to have our romantic actions reciprocated in order for the interest level to progress. If you are doing all the work and you don't feel that the level of interest is being reciprocated it’s normal to feel dissatisfaction. Take into account women play a lot of dating games as well with all the silly "rules", especially younger women who lack experience they take these rules too seriously, they don’t do it to be mean they are also trying to “find their way” and avoid pain or rejection. But when you follow too many rules the dating experience becomes mechanical instead of easy flowing and natural. I suspect this is what happened in your case. It's ok to follow a certain code when it comes to dating in terms of the "gender roles" but not at the expense of your needs. The last girl you dated sounds like she was too wound up in playing games or perhaps her interest level was not as high as yours. But by what you expressed here, it seems you are doing things correctly. Back on the horse you go!
Author zhsoj Posted May 12, 2009 Author Posted May 12, 2009 Thanks, both of you. I get the point about picking myself up and trying again. Unfortunately that just can't happen for now as I'll be moving in a few months and I really don't meet a lot of new single people my age very often. If I did all of this would probably make a lot more sense as it would provide more of a context. I guess I'll just have to get used to never knowing. Makes me terrified that all of the "good" relationships my friends and family have could be simply surface deep. Oh well; time shall tell on that one.
shinedown Posted May 12, 2009 Posted May 12, 2009 I was going to post something like this (almost word-for-word in fact) just this past weekend. I am going through the exact same thing at the moment. Been on about 5 or 6 dates with this particular girl, all seems great when we're together. We laugh alot, talk alot, and generally have a good time. But after that....zilch. I too have tested the 'no contact' theory to see if 'playing it cool' works, and I just get nothing in reply. It's always me initiating everything. And I realise that this is just what happens and it's the guys role, but I need something in return to keep me going. Otherwise I'm just gonna get annoyed and/or lose interest. Women usually do next to nothing to let you know they are interested, and youre left wondering if youre being creepy by trying or showing interest. And if the woman likes you, its fine, otherwise, youre a creep lol That is spot on. Why it has to be this way is beyond me. We may as well just be flipping a coin.
jadziaidaris Posted May 12, 2009 Posted May 12, 2009 You know this is funny. I fing myself in the exact opposite situation. I as the woman usually initiate dates/contact with the man I'm seeing. But as an aries it is something that am used to and comfortable with. Call me crazy. However, though I initiate the dates, the man I'm seeing does somehow end up making the plans. Which I don't mind. I'm prett laid back so I don't really expect that much. I have tested the no contact theory myself. It CAN be effective. But not always. It all really depends on what is going on in the other persons life. So I find that it can be very specific to a particular situation.
Author zhsoj Posted May 12, 2009 Author Posted May 12, 2009 I was going to post something like this (almost word-for-word in fact) just this past weekend. I am going through the exact same thing at the moment. Been on about 5 or 6 dates with this particular girl, all seems great when we're together. We laugh alot, talk alot, and generally have a good time. But after that....zilch. I too have tested the 'no contact' theory to see if 'playing it cool' works, and I just get nothing in reply. It's always me initiating everything. And I realise that this is just what happens and it's the guys role, but I need something in return to keep me going. Otherwise I'm just gonna get annoyed and/or lose interest. Indeed. It makes me wonder if this truly is normal or if it's an indication of lukewarm interest. Part of me now thinks that regardless of interest that style isn't compatible with my own, but then if that is the norm I'm going to be incompatible with most women it seems for a reason I never considered before. Maybe it's just plain old insecurity... date older women we know what we want We are mid-20s... How old do I have to go? And what experienced older woman is really going to want an insecure kid? Frankly I start feeling a bit weird when I think about dating a woman who is as old as my older sister (or as young as my younger brother)... Otherwise, bring it on You know this is funny. I fing myself in the exact opposite situation. I as the woman usually initiate dates/contact with the man I'm seeing. But as an aries it is something that am used to and comfortable with. Call me crazy. However, though I initiate the dates, the man I'm seeing does somehow end up making the plans. Which I don't mind. I'm prett laid back so I don't really expect that much. I have tested the no contact theory myself. It CAN be effective. But not always. It all really depends on what is going on in the other persons life. So I find that it can be very specific to a particular situation. This sounds pretty wise. For my own situation there were extenuating circumstances that I've written about elsewhere that make sense (she did seem genuinely busy). While it makes sense, it's not definitive, and I really don't handle ambiguity very well. It's a personality trait that I don't really like about myself; I'm working on it...
You'reasian Posted May 12, 2009 Posted May 12, 2009 Call me crazy. Ok you're crazy. Maybe I misread that... oh, ok, I'll call you
loser101 Posted May 12, 2009 Posted May 12, 2009 it's not definitive, and I really don't handle ambiguity very well. It's a personality trait that I don't really like about myself; I'm working on it... I think you'll find that most people don't handle ambiguity well. that's normal. most of us can't just shrug our shoulders and push someone flaky out of our mind and move on to the next person. I mentioned age before but seriously as someone older what I have learnt is to be open about what I want - I can't expect someone to be straight-up if I am ambiguous myself. it's the terrible twenties, you have to conquer your insecurities but if you give off that kind of vibe then that's what you get back as well.
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