BlueEyedGirl Posted May 10, 2009 Posted May 10, 2009 I have said before that I wish I was born 100 years ago where the world valued different set of qualities in a person. I value humility, kindnes, genoroisity, modesty and good heart above all else and this is how I was raised. But today it's all about confidence, assertivnes and self promotion. Is there anyone who actually does not consider confidence among top few traits important in a romantic partner?
Mycroft Posted May 10, 2009 Posted May 10, 2009 I don't think society necessarily overvalues things like confidence and assertiveness, these are generally good qualities to have to an extent. OTOH I do feel society has undervalued the other things you mention, I sometimes can feel that people were raised on confidence and assertiveness but forgot the other stuff(which is more important imo).
Ruby Slippers Posted May 10, 2009 Posted May 10, 2009 I think the current emphasis on confidence has to do with how heavily we're saturated with information, people, distractions. Confidence is a waving flag that says: "I am worth your attention/time."
paddington bear Posted May 10, 2009 Posted May 10, 2009 I think it depends on how you define confidence. The kind of confidence you are talking about in a negative way is really arrogance masquerading as confidence, that go-getting arrogant attitude that is more appropriate if you want to get to the top of the corporate ladder and less (or not at all) appropriate in relationships. I think true confidence is knowing who you are, what you want and being confident enough to admit when you're wrong, to be open to other people, to be not so wrapped up in your own world that you can be kind and generous and so on.
marlena Posted May 10, 2009 Posted May 10, 2009 I think it depends on how you define confidence. The kind of confidence you are talking about in a negative way is really arrogance masquerading as confidence, that go-getting arrogant attitude that is more appropriate if you want to get to the top of the corporate ladder and less (or not at all) appropriate in relationships. I think true confidence is knowing who you are, what you want and being confident enough to admit when you're wrong, to be open to other people, to be not so wrapped up in your own world that you can be kind and generous and so on. I couldn't agree more. Lots of bullies hide behind a veneer of "confidence" which is nothing but arrogance, self-absorption, cruelty, egotism, lack of empathy and other negative qualities. True confidence is being aware of both your virtues and shortcomings.
IcemanJB Posted May 10, 2009 Posted May 10, 2009 I think it depends on how you define confidence. The kind of confidence you are talking about in a negative way is really arrogance masquerading as confidence, that go-getting arrogant attitude that is more appropriate if you want to get to the top of the corporate ladder and less (or not at all) appropriate in relationships. I think true confidence is knowing who you are, what you want and being confident enough to admit when you're wrong, to be open to other people, to be not so wrapped up in your own world that you can be kind and generous and so on. I also agree. Confidence has to go hand-in-hand with humility, otherwise it's just plain arrogance.
jayOG Posted May 10, 2009 Posted May 10, 2009 I have said before that I wish I was born 100 years ago where the world valued different set of qualities in a person. I value humility, kindnes, genoroisity, modesty and good heart above all else and this is how I was raised. But today it's all about confidence, assertivnes and self promotion. Is there anyone who actually does not consider confidence among top few traits important in a romantic partner? Confidence is the foot in the door type deal. It has nothing to do with who the person really is. People still very much value these qualities.
OpenBook Posted May 10, 2009 Posted May 10, 2009 I couldn't agree more. Lots of bullies hide behind a veneer of "confidence" which is nothing but arrogance, self-absorption, cruelty, egotism, lack of empathy and other negative qualities. True confidence is being aware of both your virtues and shortcomings. Well said marlena!! What bothers me most about these people is their cruelty toward others. It shocks me how completely unaware they are of their own viciousness. It's almost like they don't care about it, or don't consider it to be a negative quality. The self-absorption and egotism don't bother me as much. I'm actually attracted to self-confident people IRL. But they must also be kind, or I have nothing to do with them.
Trialbyfire Posted May 10, 2009 Posted May 10, 2009 The thought of what women were, a hundred years ago, makes me shudder. Give me technology, the freedom to do what we want, to get where we want to go in life using the tools we're either born with or given, any day, over domestic drudgery, whale bone corsets and being the little woman with no recourse except to get married or be a prostitute.
justin180 Posted May 10, 2009 Posted May 10, 2009 Confidence does not mean believing I can get any woman I want. That would be arrogance. For any man to believe that he is God's gift to women is NOT confidence. It's the epitome of arrogance. I don't get to be the judge as to whether or not I'm worth a woman's time. She gets to judge that because she's the one who has to decide whether or not she can live with me for the rest of her life. She's going to decide what her deal-breakers are and what issues she can let slide. Confidence means being honest with myself that I cannot get any woman I want and being ok with that. A confident man knows he doesn't need every woman to be attracted to him. He only needs one woman who will accept him for who he is. Once he finds that one then it is a moot point whether or not other women would be turned off by him. Confident people are realistic and accept the fact that the world does not revolve around their needs & wants. Confidence means I admit that there will always be men out there who are better looking in the eyes of women than I am. Confident men are not desperately seeking the attention & approval of women. Confident men will interact with women and be indifferent about where the interaction leads. Whether it leads to a marriage or whether it's just a 5 minute encounter he's ok with it either way. The key for overcoming shyness for me when I want to approach a woman is to not to expect any outcome from my interactions with her. I won't get excited if she accepts a date & I won't get disappointed if she says no. If you are expecting a certain outcome then of course you're going to be paralyzed with fear when talking to her.
carhill Posted May 10, 2009 Posted May 10, 2009 I value humility, kindness, generosity, modesty and good heart above all else You've described the essence of self-confidence
Taramere Posted May 10, 2009 Posted May 10, 2009 I have said before that I wish I was born 100 years ago where the world valued different set of qualities in a person. I value humility, kindnes, genoroisity, modesty and good heart above all else and this is how I was raised. But today it's all about confidence, assertivnes and self promotion. Is there anyone who actually does not consider confidence among top few traits important in a romantic partner? I don't think that confident people are necessarily less kind and generous. I can think of very confident people I've known who sought to instill that same self confidence in others around them, and they seemed to me to be very good-hearted people. To be aware of one's own weaknesses is wise, but the word "humility" smacks of some kind of belly-crawling in atonement for anything you've ever done wrong in life. Maybe it's just something about the word I find off-putting....or that it makes me think of "humble" - which, in turn, puts me in mind of Uriah Heep. BEG, from your posts you seem confident that you have various very positive qualities to offer. Kindness, generosity, a good heart etc. Do you regard yourself as lacking in confidence about your own merits....or do you lack confidence in your ability to draw other people's attention to them? Or is it that you don't feel these qualities are valued highly enough by society?
Isolde Posted May 10, 2009 Posted May 10, 2009 Haven't you ever known someone more quietly confident, who radiated positivity without being arrogant or annoyingly chipper, who attracted people due to that inner radiance, and knew what they deserved and therefore wouldn't settle for anyone that didn't love them for who they were? Confidence has always been valued, it's just it used to be moreso in men. To this day, a man without confidence, no matter how good looking and smart and nice, projects the vibe that he doesn't know what he wants. In women, I'll admit that being demure has somewhat fallen out of fashion, but there are still plenty of guys who are attracted to that as long as you are also independent and not needy. I don't think many people will tell you confidence is the number one requirement for a long term partner but the fact is that a partner without confidence is far more likely to settle for whatever they can get. How sexy is that?
Sam Spade Posted May 10, 2009 Posted May 10, 2009 I have said before that I wish I was born 100 years ago where the world valued different set of qualities in a person. I value humility, kindnes, genoroisity, modesty and good heart above all else and this is how I was raised. But today it's all about confidence, assertivnes and self promotion. Is there anyone who actually does not consider confidence among top few traits important in a romantic partner? I don't value confidence above all - in fact, my girlfriend is all that you list. The problem is that i often need to remind myself that these are precisely the important qualities that I'm looking for (but I, like everybody else, is bombarded with the alpha stereotypes, which apply to women as well). From the opposite angle, i consider myself to be a very confident guy, however many people would never know, simply because I refuse to participate in the freakshow that is putting myself in social situations to demonstrate alpha-ness to attract the run of the mill girl . I bet my dating life would have been a lot more varied if I had the patience to put up with the con(fidence) game, but I just don't like the cliche and don't want any part of it . Somewhere along the way confidence stopped being an expression of quiet inner strenght and mutated into being the life of the party .
You'reasian Posted May 10, 2009 Posted May 10, 2009 Haven't you ever known someone more quietly confident, who radiated positivity without being arrogant or annoyingly chipper, who attracted people due to that inner radiance, and knew what they deserved and therefore wouldn't settle for anyone that didn't love them for who they were? I know alot of guys like this. Guys whom honestly deserve the best. Unfortunately, alot of women never notice them. I don't know why.
Sam Spade Posted May 10, 2009 Posted May 10, 2009 I don't think many people will tell you confidence is the number one requirement for a long term partner but the fact is that a partner without confidence is far more likely to settle for whatever they can get. How sexy is that? I'm settling for whatever I can get , and that is not a bad thing, because I'm getting a maximum return on the minimum effort I'm willing to put in . I could attract a girl that is hotter, smarter than my current one, but the marginal extra benefit would not compare favorably with the marginal extra cost. Moreover, there is a risk that even if I find her, she won't be quite as feminine and demure and reserved and traditional as my current gf .
You'reasian Posted May 10, 2009 Posted May 10, 2009 From the opposite angle, i consider myself to be a very confident guy, however many people would never know, simply because I refuse to participate in the freakshow that is putting myself in social situations to demonstrate alpha-ness to attract the run of the mill girl . I bet my dating life would have been a lot more varied if I had the patience to put up with the con(fidence) game, but I just don't like the cliche and don't want any part of it . Somewhere along the way confidence stopped being an expression of quiet inner strenght and mutated into being the life of the party . Quiet strength is absolutely potent in some fields of work but is an absolute turn-off to most women. I found myself very attracted to a woman who was quietly strong and would have snatched her up, if she wasn't just separated. Perhaps, being quietly strong is itself a deterrent against inconsistent/inconsiderate/shallow partners?
Author BlueEyedGirl Posted May 11, 2009 Author Posted May 11, 2009 The thought of what women were, a hundred years ago, makes me shudder. Give me technology, the freedom to do what we want, to get where we want to go in life using the tools we're either born with or given, any day, over domestic drudgery, whale bone corsets and being the little woman with no recourse except to get married or be a prostitute. You are the perfect example of the set of qualities that are considered positive in today's world - no wonder you like it.
Author BlueEyedGirl Posted May 11, 2009 Author Posted May 11, 2009 Like Isolde said, being more shy and demure was what I was thinking as the opposite of being confident. I know that confident people can have a good heart, but I am instantly turned off by their attitude, loudness, thinking they are "top s$it" etc. On the other hand I instantly warm to and befriend more demure individuals male or female. I had a student last year (in one of the college classes I was teaching). Anyway she was extremly loud and opinionated. I took an instant dislike to her. On the other hand, this was the first class that I have ever thaught and I felt very nervous and insecure. I think she picked up on it and started sending me e-mails now and then about how she liked my class, thinks that I am fantastic teacher etc. We still keep in touch today. She has actually helped me build my confidence up in my teaching. This is an example of a confident person with a good heart. I certainly don't think of confidence as negative. My life would be a lot easier if I had more of it. I just hope that there are men out there who can find demure girls cute.
Isolde Posted May 11, 2009 Posted May 11, 2009 I'm settling for whatever I can get , and that is not a bad thing, because I'm getting a maximum return on the minimum effort I'm willing to put in . I could attract a girl that is hotter, smarter than my current one, but the marginal extra benefit would not compare favorably with the marginal extra cost. Moreover, there is a risk that even if I find her, she won't be quite as feminine and demure and reserved and traditional as my current gf . But SS, you're not settling because you clearly are into your GF and are attracted to her. If you HAD settled, you would be wanting to put in extra effort to find someone else. It's not like you are with someone you don't truly like or who doesn't like you, due to lack of confidence. The way I see it, it seems like she's just right for your wants and needs. That isn't settling.
monkey00 Posted May 11, 2009 Posted May 11, 2009 Quiet strength is absolutely potent in some fields of work but is an absolute turn-off to most women. I found myself very attracted to a woman who was quietly strong and would have snatched her up, if she wasn't just separated. Perhaps, being quietly strong is itself a deterrent against inconsistent/inconsiderate/shallow partners? I don't think quiet strength is necessarily a turn-off to most women. I think the issue here is simply because you aren't noticed. Someone who possesses inner confidence as well as exuding it externally from time to time will get him noticed because that is when his personality shines the most. But don't get me wrong, women will notice the strong silent types too. I think the former though will probably be more successful on most occasions. I certainly don't think of confidence as negative. My life would be a lot easier if I had more of it. I just hope that there are men out there who can find demure girls cute. Personally I find demure girls cute. However if I want things to progress with her, I would hope or expect her to eventually (if not slowly) come out of her shell and take some initiative. Relationships are a two way street. And I would want to know or have her show she's as interested in me as I am in her.
MN randomguy Posted May 11, 2009 Posted May 11, 2009 I don't think quiet strength is necessarily a turn-off to most women. I think the issue here is simply because you aren't noticed. Someone who possesses inner confidence as well as exuding it externally from time to time will get him noticed because that is when his personality shines the most. Its all about how much we're marketed to, and then you don't have to accept responsibility for when it goes wrong. Take houses, in 2004 I was repeatedly told how stupid I was for not buying a house. Now, I've started shopping, and I tell the same people who wanted me to buy when they did of the great finds I'm finding, and they're too self absorbed to be happy for me. The poster above is right. There's no observing and evaluating men. Just go out, see what catches your attention, make sure its socially aceptible with your friends, then start your game to trap him. If you do catch him and you find a lack of truth in advertising, he's not the greatest thing since sliced bread, you want your money back. Amazingly many don't learn that not all that shimmers is gold. Next guy that hits on them and makes then fell good emotionally, they're back at it. Never is it their fault that things don't work out for lack of seeing empirical evidence of character before getting invested. Just give your emotional capital to the Bernie Madoff of love, He promises great returns, its magic.
Trialbyfire Posted May 11, 2009 Posted May 11, 2009 You are the perfect example of the set of qualities that are considered positive in today's world - no wonder you like it.If I want anything bad enough, I go get it, which includes busting arse for it. Some of us believe in hard work. And no, I'm far from loud. I'm soft spoken but assertive. When I get angry, the pitch drops lower and gets harder. I mean what I say.
MN randomguy Posted May 11, 2009 Posted May 11, 2009 BEG, Do you think that confidence is really important for a woman? I don't think it is nearly as much for a woman to be considered attractive. Lots of men are fed-up with stereotypical pushy feminist type women. I would think there would be opportunities there. I have been attracted to some. You almost have to meet online or something like that for it to work-out though. Her friends usually get in the way. If she isn't assertive enough, her friends like to decide who dates who. I know it gets better as you move away from college age though.
Mycroft Posted May 11, 2009 Posted May 11, 2009 BEG, Do you think that confidence is really important for a woman? I don't think it is nearly as much for a woman to be considered attractive. I think its important. Its not attractive if someone has so little confidence they are constantly worried about what others think, insecure, jealous, things like this. Being too confident is sorta like false confidence which is not attractive.
Recommended Posts