taylor Posted May 12, 2009 Posted May 12, 2009 Her relationship has been exposed to all family and friends. I've even written to OM, just recently. I needed to get it off of my chest, let him see his part in the destruction of a 20-year marriage and a cohesive family with two small children. I just wanted him to sit in the s**t for a while, not that he gives a s**t. Did he respond back to you? I haven't exposed this to her boss because we depend on her income, especially in this horrible economy. It's been a real Catch-22. Neither of us earns enough to cover everything, her job has the medical benefits, yet she refused to change her job. On some level I've been hamstrung by that, and it's frustrating beyond words. This is the exact same reason why many women stay in marriages and "allow" their husbands to cheat...they are tied to them financially. They feel they are stuck. You aren't stuck five&dime. You are choosing to stay with a cheater who has no interest in fixing the marriage so that you can continue to enjoy financial security. Like jwi71 said, if you don't like the situation, change it..it's either, or. Your marriage is not going to get better. If your wife wanted that, she would have quit her job and gone NC with the OM. She isn't unhappy. She's got herself in a situation she is thoroughly enjoying. You're the unhappy one. So you either stay in the situation you are in or you gather strength, take control of your life, and make a change. Don't wait a minute longer for her to come around. It's not going to happen. Not in 10 months..not in a million years.
taylor Posted May 12, 2009 Posted May 12, 2009 Taylor...I think you and I are going to have to agree to disagree. I'll be honest...I used to agree with a lot of your posts, but in your posts I'm seeing less and less true regret over the affair, and more and more defense of the choice to cheat. Your posts are sounding a lot more like they did when you FIRST arrived here than they did shortly after you truly decided to end your affair and tell your husband the truth. Owl, What you are seeing is a wayward spouse who has finally been able to forgive herself for developing feelings for another man. I punished myself for nearly a year...long after my husband forgave me. The self-loathing and self-hatred were eating me alive and making marital recovery impossible. Both the therapists and my husband told me we would fail at marital recovery unless I could find a way to stop punishing myself and forgive myself. It was a struggle. But I have done it. I have forgiven myself. I will no longer punish myself or allow anyone else to punish me for it. My husband says he has moved on and wants me to move on, too. I am trying my best. I ended all contact with the OM within 6 weeks of D-day, expressed remorse and regret for months, recommitted to my husband, and continue to attend MC and IC. I have done all that has been asked of me and more. And the last thing I have done is forgive myself which was perhaps the hardest of things to do. This is the change you are seeing in my posts. Sorry for the T/J Five&Dime.
Dexter Morgan Posted May 12, 2009 Posted May 12, 2009 The only real person of note who is not aware of this is her boss (well, and the people at her work). Remember, my wife is #2 at a 65-person multi-million dollar non-profit. really? sweet, you should get one helluva settlement then!! I haven't exposed this to her boss because we depend on her income, especially in this horrible economy. and if she is #2 at a multi-million $ company, hell, you could even get alimony out of it! Not that you'd want it. i wouldn't go for it...but you should go for your share of any of her investment accounts and retirement. It's been a real Catch-22. Neither of us earns enough to cover everything ??? #2 at a company as you described, and you can't cover everything? Remember what she told me just a day ago: "I like my job! I'm good at it! I've been there for 11 years!" Which means she doesn't like her marriage, is crappy at it and doesn't care how many years is invested. She'd do someone else a favor if she never marries again...cuz she sucks at it. get rid of her...get as much of her retirement and investment as you can, and start a new life!!
Dexter Morgan Posted May 12, 2009 Posted May 12, 2009 Money can't buy you happiness five&dime. No, but getting rid of a cheater and starting a new life with their money sure can't be a downer:)
Dexter Morgan Posted May 12, 2009 Posted May 12, 2009 oh, and you are entitled to half of all marital assets. So let her have the house and have her pay you 1/2 the equity accumulated while you were married. In the marital settlement agreement, force her to refinance to get your name off the mortgage, if you have a mortgage, and you will be out from under the house and she will be on the hook for it....and you get 1/2 the equity:)
seibert253 Posted May 12, 2009 Posted May 12, 2009 5x10, it's time my man. She's not going to change. Time for you to make a change. She's not the person you married 20 years ago, and sounds like she never will be. It's hard to look at, but those were not wasted years. You've got some wonderful children. Maybe I missed it, but do they know what's going on? Just be the best father you can, and always look forward, never behind.
Author five&dime Posted May 12, 2009 Author Posted May 12, 2009 Windy - I wrote OM a 3-page email. Sent it to two different places I know he has to ensure he received it. I did not see him in person. That's probably not wise as I'm not interested in sporting an orange jumpsuit because of what might happen. Lifesontheup - I agree with you. I'd rather be poor and happy then financially secure and miserable. I told my wife I'd rather lose everything, go bankrupt and start over financially if that were the ultimate result of her leaving her job where OM was. She said that scenario was not an option she'd ever consider. Dexter - yeah, she's #2 at a multi-million dollar non-profit. Keyword: NON-PROFIT. Non-profit's don't pay jack, even to upper management. Taylor - no, OM never responded to me, and I doubt he ever will. What's he gonna say? My wife says she and OM have not spoken to each other about my email to him. Don't know if I believe her. Doesn't really matter one way or another. I'm focusing on me, my kids, my work, and the things I can control.
Dexter Morgan Posted May 12, 2009 Posted May 12, 2009 Dexter - yeah, she's #2 at a multi-million dollar non-profit. Keyword: NON-PROFIT. Non-profit's don't pay jack, even to upper management. even so, if she has more of a retirement/investment plan, then you need to go for your half of it. And again, let her have the house, get out from underneath it, make her pay you 1/2 the equity, and you split the marital assets. Lifesontheup - I agree with you. I'd rather be poor and happy then financially secure and miserable. I told my wife I'd rather lose everything, go bankrupt and start over financially if that were the ultimate result of her leaving her job where OM was. She said that scenario was not an option she'd ever consider. she chose work, and the OM as far as I'm concerned, over you, the marriage, and her kid's lives. So you get a divorce and take whats yours. If she thinks its worth losing her family over, then you get an attorney that knows how to put the screws to someone like that.
Author five&dime Posted May 14, 2009 Author Posted May 14, 2009 Jwi71 - yes, I could survive financially on my own. Neither of us makes tons of money, but I'd be okay, and she would, too. We'd probably need to sell the house, but I could give a s***. I've obviously been slow on the uptake with all of this because it doesn't appear, in hindsight, that she ever had much interest in making things work after D-Day. She wrote in her journal very early after D-Day...and said many months later in MC...that if I "focus on this issue, I was going to lose her" (the issue being her EA w/co-worker and continued contact with him). That's just not a real world scenario in my eyes. Maybe for someone else, but not for me. I tried not to focus on it. I tried a lot (10 freakin' months is a long time to put up with WW & OP having daily contact), but I just couldn't do it, especially when she did very little to try to rebuild trust (i.e. locked work emails, locked personal emails, no NC letter, less than 1 resume per month put out, telling me 9 months into this crisis that whenever she's near OP, she "...just feels peace. Total peace," etc.). So, as she prognosticated early in this crisis, I focused on it, and now I'm going to lose her. She recently admonished me that I "was warned!" about it. I guess that's all the cover she needs to justify her actions and blame ME for the end of our marriage. Since she "warned me" not to focus on it, and since I couldn't let it go...the end of our marriage is obviously ALL MY FAULT. How convenient.
Snowflower Posted May 14, 2009 Posted May 14, 2009 So, as she prognosticated early in this crisis, I focused on it, and now I'm going to lose her. She recently admonished me that I "was warned!" about it. I guess that's all the cover she needs to justify her actions and blame ME for the end of our marriage. Since she "warned me" not to focus on it, and since I couldn't let it go...the end of our marriage is obviously ALL MY FAULT. How convenient. five&dime, I am so sorry that this appears to be the end of your marriage. You are right...the handwriting was on the wall 10 months ago where you basically told to "get over it" or else. At least you can feel like you did everything that you could to try to save your marriage first. Unfortunately, your wife never realized that it takes two to recover a marriage and a whole lot of work. Her heart was never in it after D-day and so now your heart can't be either. As you know, it's not your fault. It's time to move on. I'm so sorry.
tami-chan Posted May 15, 2009 Posted May 15, 2009 I'd rather be poor and happy What kind of "poor" are we talking about? I have never met a poor person who was "happy"...I have however, met many who are "just making ends meet, who are happy".
jwi71 Posted May 15, 2009 Posted May 15, 2009 Jwi71 - yes, I could survive financially on my own. Neither of us makes tons of money, but I'd be okay, and she would, too. We'd probably need to sell the house, but I could give a s***. Forget the house. I walked from mine so you can too. Realize that material things are NOT worth it - no need to stay involved with a partner who so callously disregards your feelings. The "comfort" of home and the familiarity of the WS are NOT worth it. Find one who WILL VALUE YOU. I've obviously been slow on the uptake with all of this because it doesn't appear, in hindsight, that she ever had much interest in making things work after D-Day. She wrote in her journal very early after D-Day...and said many months later in MC...that if I "focus on this issue, I was going to lose her" (the issue being her EA w/co-worker and continued contact with him). That's just not a real world scenario in my eyes. Maybe for someone else, but not for meShe is saying in crystal clear terms: "My job, my lover - well EA, MY LIFE are more important than your feelings". Accept it, file and move on. Let her go because you have NO choice. You can't force her to stay with you and you can;t force her to quit...so walk away. BTDT. And its hard as hell. Then its not. Its really that simple. I tried not to focus on it. I tried a lot (10 freakin' months is a long time to put up with WW & OP having daily contact), but I just couldn't do it, especially when she did very little to try to rebuild trust (i.e. locked work emails, locked personal emails, no NC letter, less than 1 resume per month put out, telling me 9 months into this crisis that whenever she's near OP, she "...just feels peace. Total peace," etc.).No one blames you. You fought the good fight...did all you COULD. Its ok to walk...hold your head up high for there is NO shame. Be proud. So, as she prognosticated early in this crisis, I focused on it, and now I'm going to lose her. She recently admonished me that I "was warned!" about it. I guess that's all the cover she needs to justify her actions and blame ME for the end of our marriage. Since she "warned me" not to focus on it, and since I couldn't let it go...the end of our marriage is obviously ALL MY FAULT. Of course not. Its a defense mechanism to protect herself. It has nothing to do with you. And it isn't your fault. Its hers. There is NOTHING you can say or do to convince her otherwise. She has set a herself on a path of ruination and she will find it. I know you want otherwise but she does NOT. Let her go my friend...make the D as amicable as possible. Its better that way for ALL involved.
LifesontheUp Posted May 15, 2009 Posted May 15, 2009 What kind of "poor" are we talking about? I have never met a poor person who was "happy"...I have however, met many who are "just making ends meet, who are happy". I don't understand why have such an attitude Tami. Its like you try to stir the pot on nearly every thread you post on Five&dime - shes trying to put the blame on you, shes trying to justify what shes done and what she is continuing to do. I find it very sick She has made you suffer for the last 10 months. Make sure she doesn't make you suffer like this any longer. Yes its hard, but life does get better and there is light at the end of the tunnel.
tami-chan Posted May 16, 2009 Posted May 16, 2009 I don't understand why have such an attitude Tami. Its like you try to stir the pot on nearly every thread you post on Five&dime - shes trying to put the blame on you, shes trying to justify what shes done and what she is continuing to do. I find it very sick She has made you suffer for the last 10 months. Make sure she doesn't make you suffer like this any longer. Yes its hard, but life does get better and there is light at the end of the tunnel. I can't help it if you feel that way <shrug> But those people who say "better poor and happy" say that because they are really NOT THAT poor or they have no idea what it is to be poor....easy for them to say. "Being poor" is relative, I wanted to know what they meant by "better to be poor and happy"...oh really? like homeless poor? or living in a government subsidized apartment poor, etc...? If you have children and they depend on you for their daily subsistence...you would rather suffer until they are able to fend for themselves or until something better comes along....
Author five&dime Posted May 27, 2009 Author Posted May 27, 2009 Today's our 20th anniversary. She told me she woke up crying and that she wants to talk tonight after the kids go to bed (I wouldn't know how she woke up as I've slept on the other side of the house since October). She said she wants to talk tonight about HER resentment. Um...no thanks, dear. Not gonna let you unburden yourself and make your affair all MY fault on our 20th anniversary (especially since two weeks ago you told me you don't want to be married anymore and want a separation. Awesome timing, honey!). No thanks. I think I'll go celebrate our 20th anniversary at a movie by myself instead.
mark982 Posted May 27, 2009 Posted May 27, 2009 yep, i wouldn't sit around and let her vent on you.go out enjoy yourself,let her wallow in her own guilt.
seibert253 Posted May 27, 2009 Posted May 27, 2009 Today's our 20th anniversary. She told me she woke up crying and that she wants to talk tonight after the kids go to bed (I wouldn't know how she woke up as I've slept on the other side of the house since October). She said she wants to talk tonight about HER resentment. Um...no thanks, dear. Not gonna let you unburden yourself and make your affair all MY fault on our 20th anniversary (especially since two weeks ago you told me you don't want to be married anymore and want a separation. Awesome timing, honey!). No thanks. I think I'll go celebrate our 20th anniversary at a movie by myself instead. Do you one better, celibrate it with the hot 25 year old you work with.
Dexter Morgan Posted May 28, 2009 Posted May 28, 2009 Today's our 20th anniversary. She told me she woke up crying and that she wants to talk tonight after the kids go to bed (I wouldn't know how she woke up as I've slept on the other side of the house since October). She said she wants to talk tonight about HER resentment. Um...no thanks, dear. Not gonna let you unburden yourself and make your affair all MY fault on our 20th anniversary (especially since two weeks ago you told me you don't want to be married anymore and want a separation. Awesome timing, honey!). No thanks. I think I'll go celebrate our 20th anniversary at a movie by myself instead. exactly right my man. no way should you let her unburden herself. tell her to call someone who cares... "You say you were wrong To ever leave me alone And now your sorry....you're lonesome and scared And you say you'd be happy If you could just come back home Well here's a quarter, call someone who cares." Love that song
seibert253 Posted May 28, 2009 Posted May 28, 2009 exactly right my man. no way should you let her unburden herself. tell her to call someone who cares... "You say you were wrong To ever leave me alone And now your sorry....you're lonesome and scared And you say you'd be happy If you could just come back home Well here's a quarter, call someone who cares." Love that song Wait a moment, here 5X10, got one to give to the WW. Hand it to her on the way out the door.
Reggie Posted May 29, 2009 Posted May 29, 2009 Hopefully, therewas no discussionif it was just herattempting to blame you for her resentment. First, she has to own the affair and show remores nad a willingness to stop and fix it. My XWW tried to lay into me, as well, to justify. I simply told her that I had a longer list about her deficiencies and would not discuss them unless she agree to counseling. She was incredulous. She could not beleive that her years of abuse, lying , overspending etc would cause resentment in me. After all, she was perfect.
tami-chan Posted May 29, 2009 Posted May 29, 2009 Good song, Dexter Morgan. Five&dime, how was the movies?
Author five&dime Posted June 15, 2009 Author Posted June 15, 2009 It’s been a while, so I’ll try to catch you up quickly on what’s been going on. Our 20th anniversary passed, and it was not a joyous one. We barely spoke to each other, but I did find the time to send a quick email to her dreamy co-worker just so he could share in our special day with us. I let him know that she had woken up that morning crying (she had to tell me this because I’ve actually slept in the guest room since October.) I let her AP know that she was very sad on this special day and that maybe he could cheer her up, seeing as he seems to have the magic touch with her. He never responded to me, of course. A few days later, I sat her down and told her that if she really didn’t want to be married anymore like she had said a week or two before and that she wanted a separation then it was time to get the show on the road. I told her that we were going to speak with our two children (8 and 10 years old) in the next day or two. I told her that I was going to stop keeping quiet about why our marriage was about to end and I began listing all of the people one by one who I was going to tell. I told her that this wasn’t going to end well, that I wasn’t going to be her friend like she hoped and that she shouldn’t kid herself into believing that we would still actually work on the marriage if we separated. I reiterated that our innocent little 8-year old boy was a day or two from growing up way before he should have ever needed to. Well, halfway through that conversation came the first moment where she started to back-pedal. “You’re not planning on filing papers or anything are you? Because I’m not planning on it?” I told her I hadn’t specifically instructed my attorney to do that yet but that she shouldn’t kid herself about the reality of the situation. I reiterated that this was not going to end well and that whatever Pollyanna divorce fairytale she had in her brain about us quietly doing this and remaining good friends all along the way was just not going to happen. I told her that I had no intention of being her “friend.” A few minutes after the conversation ended, she knocked on my guest room door, poked her head in and said, “So it was always about me leaving me job?” I told her, “No, it wasn’t all about that. But that was certainly part of it.” Well, the next morning she calls me on the way from her therapist’s office to her work, and she’s emotional. She asked me to “…please wait to talk to the kids. Just for a few more days. Please.” I said whatever. Hell, what’s a few more days after nearly 11 months since D-Day. She said she was going on a 3-day retreat to think about everything and could we just wait to do anything like talk to the kids until after she got back. Another fresh sign that she was having second thoughts. Was she panicking? Was reality setting in? It’s like she’d had the ball this whole time, and the second I went up, snatched it out of her hands and started moving the proceedings forward, she went about-face. So she goes on her retreat (no, her dreamy work boyfriend didn’t go. I asked her, and she said he wasn’t going, and I believed her…). She returned and quickly wanted to talk to me. She said that while she was away, she had time to really think about everything, and she had come to a place where she could finally release her resentment and anger toward me. She said she now realized that she needed to get away from her AP by finding another job. And she apologized for not leaving her job sooner. Now, she still hasn’t apologized or even acknowledged that she had an EA to this day (most say since they still have daily contact that the affair continues) . She still maintains that she didn’t know she had these feelings for him at the time she was calling him 150 times and emailing him and texting him and going out alone with him multiple times and lying and hiding and deceiving me about it all the while. (Of course, if she didn’t know she had these feelings for him, then she’s innocent of any wrongdoing. It was only months after D-Day that she says she finally came to the realization that she must have had these feelings for him, she just didn’t know it at the time.) Um, huh? I told her that I knew she was in love with him the very second I read her emails on D-Day. “Well, you’re a better person than I am because I didn’t know!” (But, dear, why did you write in your journal, “I can’t tell my husband the truth…it would end our marriage…”?) Whenever I bring that little tidbit up, she blasts me for the violation of reading her journal. “That wasn’t meant for your eyes! It’s such a violation!” (Oh, okay, you’re right dear. My bad. I guess my violating your privacy negates the words you wrote. I see. Nevermind.) So, she comes back from her retreat and says that now, 11 months after D-Day, she finally wants to atone and make amends for not trying to get a different job to get away from her work-spouse. She even said that she'd called a couple of her friends to announce this, and later that night she even called my parents to tell them. Problem is, I don’t trust her. Not one iota. And I told her this. I don’t believe her epiphany has legs. She sent out a couple of resumes that day, but nothing more after that (2 weeks ago). And we’ve fought plenty during that time. She still can’t and won’t acknowledge that she deceived me in any way. She’s still not wearing her wedding ring. She’s still not opened up her work or personal emails. She’s not sent a joint NC letter to her co-worker. I told her that I would wager that she’ll still be working with him a year from now, and I believe it. After she told me she was done and didn’t want to be married anymore a month ago, I finally rounded some corner and started feel that I was going to be okay. So I became decisive in moving the process forward aggressively. The moment I did that is the moment reality started to settle in and she started back-tracking. And I’m confident that my contacting her AP at work again made her squirm even more because their boss doesn’t know a thing, and their boss wouldn’t take kindly to these shenanigans. Nobody at her work knows (I know, I should have announced it to her workplace a long time ago.) I think that contributed to the feeling that the noose was tightening. I just don’t trust her, and I just don’t know what to believe. This feels like such a slow death. I wish I had the answers, though I think I was on to something when I started just taking control and doing things on my terms. Thanks for listening.
tami-chan Posted June 15, 2009 Posted June 15, 2009 hi there, 5&10...wow, you have come a long way...even though there is still much, much work to do. it is possible that your wife has reached rock bottom and thus realized what's important in her life. Having said that, all that does not matter if you have lost trust in her. Are you willing to learn to trust her again? if so, then maybe you can work on saving your marriage. It will take more from you to save this marriage, are you prepared for that? It is ok if you are not. Maybe her realization came too late, her lost. If so, focus on moving on....you are in good company..
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