five&dime Posted May 9, 2009 Posted May 9, 2009 Well, ten months after D-Day (EA with co-worker she still sees daily) and she told me yesterday she wants a separation. She's "...tired of being under seige by my verbal abuse during this crisis...and just needs a break from the conflict..." She started out the conversation with "I don't want to be married anymore..." but it evolved to just needing "separation from the conflict." Is this separation from the conflict to take a break, or is it separation leading ultimately to divorce? I don't truly know what's in her heart, but as one of my friends told me a few weeks ago, it sure seems like the boat is pulling away from the dock. I have no doubt she is tired from this conflict, and I have certainly made my unhappiness known to her during these ten months because of the inhumane reality I have had to endure because of her continued contact with OM. It makes me sick for our two little children (8 and 9 years old). I told her it's a shame we couldn't work on the "other bigger issues" of our marriage with the stain of her continued contact with OM muddying the waters. She continues with her mantra that the EA is nothing more than a symptom of bigger underlying problems in our 20-year marriage. You know what? I know it's a symptom, but nonetheless it's been brutal for me to endure that continued daily contact. I know I'm not crazy here. Regarding her job, she said yesterday "I like my job. I'm good at what I do." Well, bully for her. There is no question that the economy is horrible and that we need her income, but she has put out less than one resume a month since D-Day and stopped even pretending to try some time ago. I fear if our marriage does ultimately end, I'm going to look back with regret that I was unable to overlook the continued daily contact and interactions with OM. I tried. I really did. I just couldn't do it. I've been in IC since the beginning, and we went through two MC's. The continued contact with OM just proved too much for me to ever be content with. I asked her what she would have done if the tables were turned and it was me having continued daily contact with a co-worker I'd fallen for, and she said she would have "looked at the EA as a symptom of other issues, and she would have tried to understand what the other person was supplying to me, and she would have tried to win me back, make me love her even more." In other words, she was wanting me to be a knight in shining armor coming in on my white horse to "win her back." Maybe she has a point. I just wasn't strong enough to do that. I tried to endure the continued contact. Hell, D-Day was 10 months ago, and her going NC with OM has never happened. I have never enjoyed that luxury, that peace of mind. Never. She has seen him every work day since D-Day. I know there are probably better people than me who could have endured this better than I have and who maybe could have handled it better than I have. I fear I may look back on this with regret that I could have/should have been stronger in the face of her continued daily contact with OM. Unfortunately, I've never been content with it. Just the opposite. It's been a torturous purgatory. And now she wants out because of how I've been during these 10 months. Yes, I've been ugly. I've never touched a hair on her head, but I've certainly called a spade a spade, and, at times, I've let her have it with both barrels. I understand she feels "under siege" and that my "verbal abuse" has been too much for her to handle. My "verbal abuse" is in response the the inhumane situation she has forced me to endure. She's called me a "bully"...I've told her that she's just as much of a "bully" for the way she has handled this. There is no winner here. At least she likes her job and is good at it. Our 20th anniversary is in two weeks. Thanks for listening.
Reggie Posted May 9, 2009 Posted May 9, 2009 No, the truth is that just about nobody could have tolerated this and healed. It is pretty well accepted that NC is essential to recovery and your wife has been unwilling to do what it takes to reconcile. Her claim that she would have been able to overlook this if the tables were turned is just untrue. Sounds like you gave this your best shot,, but your wife was unwilling. You cannot control her actions. This imminent divorce is all on her, the affair and the unwillingness to do what it takes. You will be better off without her.
jwi71 Posted May 9, 2009 Posted May 9, 2009 five&dime, Sit your W down and begin dividing up property and assets. Then discuss a shared custody arrangement. As an example, for my stbxw and me, I have them for 7 weeks with a weekend visit in the middle for her, then it switches - she gets them for 7 weeks and I get the middle weekend. Works for us and the kids (5 and 3) are adjusting well. Then hire your lawyer, explain the agreements and explain SHE moved out. Then when he asks if you want to file...say yes. Its that simple. Because my firend, she will NEVER end this A on her own. So end the M for her on YOUR terms. And to be frank, THIS IS THE ONLY THING YOU CAN DO TO REGAIN CONTROL OF YOUR LIFE. I am sorry your M came to this. Let it go. Let her go. Stop trying to hold on to smoke.
Darth Vader Posted May 9, 2009 Posted May 9, 2009 You can figure that they've slept together already. It's apparent by her actions, even if they didn't saddle up, they'er probably planning on it very soon. Time to lose her.
PhoenixRise Posted May 9, 2009 Posted May 9, 2009 What your wife is doing is abusive and emotional extortion. She is not committed to your marriage and she is telling you that she won't commit to the marriage. Unless and until you do A, B, and C, she will hold on to the other man. A marriage can not heal this way. Is your wife seriously surprised that you are upset that she won't stay away from the man she has fallen for? She is suprised that you get angry and tell her what you think about it? Really? AND this notion that she would take an EA that you had as a wake up call and work harder to win you back while you continue the relationship with the OW is just not true. I don't think anyone could recover from an affair if the AP is still in the WS life. It is impossible. Your wife is/was asking for too much. If she is saying she wants out of the marriage the YOU start divorce proceedings. The marriage will only continue to deteriorate if you try to stay in it while this OM is still in her life, and your children will still be living in the atmosphere of anger generated by a slowly dying marriage.
lkjh Posted May 9, 2009 Posted May 9, 2009 Listen to jwi71. Do not let her make you out to be the bad guy. She cheated and refused to do anything about it. When a woman leaves for another man there is no taking her back
Windy27 Posted May 10, 2009 Posted May 10, 2009 EA my axx. They slept together and they continue to sleep together during "lunch breaks," etc. It only takes them 30 minutes to an hour to go to a local motel during lunch our to do their thing. Get yourself tested. She needed to quit her job 10 months ago. Why did you let her stay. Your letting her stay is like choosing her income over your family and allowing to her to continue the affair. Did you confronted the OM? Did you exposed the affair? If so, to whom...did that include her and his bosses, their co-workers, her family, his family...?
LucreziaBorgia Posted May 10, 2009 Posted May 10, 2009 If you were to turn on her, and plant a foot firmly on her ass and shove her out of your life so hard her teeth rattled, she would likely start to realize what she is doing. I'm serious - go to a lawyer, spill everything, and make sure that your lawyer rakes her over the coals and makes her pay as much as he can get out of her. Give her the equivalent of a hard drop to the pavement, right on her butt so hard she bounces. Right now you have to consider the wife you knew to have been brainjacked and replaced by a manipulative, lying bitch. I second the STD thing. There is no way that this affair stayed just 'emotional'.
Windy27 Posted May 10, 2009 Posted May 10, 2009 Right now you have to consider the wife you knew to have been brainjacked and replaced by a manipulative, lying bitch. I second the STD thing. There is no way that this affair stayed just 'emotional'. The reason she wants a seperation is because: 1) She can persue the affair full time. Instead of an hour or so during lunch, she can spend the night at his place. 2) She can use the justification "I am not cheating because we are seperated" crap.
seibert253 Posted May 11, 2009 Posted May 11, 2009 five&dime, Sit your W down and begin dividing up property and assets. Then discuss a shared custody arrangement. As an example, for my stbxw and me, I have them for 7 weeks with a weekend visit in the middle for her, then it switches - she gets them for 7 weeks and I get the middle weekend. Works for us and the kids (5 and 3) are adjusting well. Then hire your lawyer, explain the agreements and explain SHE moved out. Then when he asks if you want to file...say yes. Its that simple. Because my firend, she will NEVER end this A on her own. So end the M for her on YOUR terms. And to be frank, THIS IS THE ONLY THING YOU CAN DO TO REGAIN CONTROL OF YOUR LIFE. I am sorry your M came to this. Let it go. Let her go. Stop trying to hold on to smoke. Also, she leaves, you do not. She's the one who wants to disrupt everyone's life by pursing her fantasy. Then 180 her azz to death. If you want to keep you wife, this is the ONLY thing that will snap her out of the fog. The 2x4 of reality.
joybean72 Posted May 11, 2009 Posted May 11, 2009 Windy I am sorry you are going through this. It's sad more times than not it seems that the ones who have been betrayed are the ones that have to take the initial steps and file. We certainly didn't sign up for this s#%t, but are the ones who get to clean it up for some odd reason while they float on in happy la la land. It does get easier in time friend...just hang in. Take the actions you need to protect yourself and your heart. Good luck to you.
Owl Posted May 11, 2009 Posted May 11, 2009 Tell your wife that she's right...it is "just a symptom"...like a fever during a major infection. Then remind your wife that a doctor has to treat a high fever FIRST...even before he focuses on clearing out the infection...because that SYMPTOM will kill the patient well before the underlying cause will. And her continuation of working with OM...and clearly DISREGARDING your very real and understandable NEED for her to end her interactions with him completely...will kill your marriage well before her "underlying causes" ever will.
taylor Posted May 11, 2009 Posted May 11, 2009 Also, she leaves, you do not. She's the one who wants to disrupt everyone's life by pursing her fantasy. Then 180 her azz to death. If you want to keep you wife, this is the ONLY thing that will snap her out of the fog. The 2x4 of reality. If you have to hit someone over the head that hard with a 2X4 to get them to re-commit, why bother? Five&Dime, your wife has been telling you for 10 months that she does not value her marriage or you. She has been telling you for 10 months that she is not committed to you. Her decision to continue contact with the OM tells you this. If she wanted to re-commit to you and save your marriage, the FIRST step she would have taken would have been total NC with the OM at whatever costs and knowing that this was the ONLY way to save the marriage. She chose not to do that. As a WW who had an EA with a co-worker I worked side by side with every day, I KNEW there was NO WAY to end the affair with continued contact. Your wife KNOWS this, too. She has chosen to continue this affair every day for 10 months post D-day. And every day she has chosen NOT to work on the mariage. It is totally impossible to recover a marriage...recommit to a husband, while there are continued opportunities for feelings to grow for another man. There is no way, shape or form for a husband to "compete" with an OM who is still in the picture. I wouldn't hit your wife over the head with a 2X4 and drag her back to the cave. I would just file for divorce. She made her decision long ago. You just didn't realize it.
Owl Posted May 11, 2009 Posted May 11, 2009 I would partially agree with you, Taylor. You're right about her treatment of 5&10...and of what it says about her priorities and viewpoints. I'd suggest that she not be hit with a 2x4 and drug back to the cave...but I would heartily suggest that she be summarily kicked out of the cave with absolutely nothing whatsoever in the way of support from him. If she doesn't value the marriage or him...she gets nothing from the marriage, or him. Realizing just what all she has lost may be the wake up call she needs...or if nothing else, a learning experience for her in future relationships.
Chrome Barracuda Posted May 11, 2009 Posted May 11, 2009 I'd go for the jugular, seperation is just an excuse for her to continue the affair unimpeeded. I'd file for divorce and have her served. it can either wake her up or she'll be with the OM, either way you should not be put through the ringer because she cant be faithful and keep her legs closed! She's an idiot because she has turned her back on everything she ever was, and she is a lie.
taylor Posted May 11, 2009 Posted May 11, 2009 I would partially agree with you, Taylor. You're right about her treatment of 5&10...and of what it says about her priorities and viewpoints. I'd suggest that she not be hit with a 2x4 and drug back to the cave...but I would heartily suggest that she be summarily kicked out of the cave with absolutely nothing whatsoever in the way of support from him. If she doesn't value the marriage or him...she gets nothing from the marriage, or him. Realizing just what all she has lost may be the wake up call she needs...or if nothing else, a learning experience for her in future relationships. I doubt she can just be "kicked out" as she lives in the house, too, and has as much legal right to live there as he does. But he can start a legal separation. I don't know what that would mean in terms of financial support. However, if he did "kick" her out and "cut her off" completely, "with nothing from him by way of support", what good would it do? I am assuming by "support" you mean financial? If she did come crawling back because she couldn't make it financially, would that satisfy Five&Dime? Would he really want a wife back who only came back to him for financial reasons? I truly do not understand men who want to save their marriages by kicking their wayward wives out and cutting off all financial support...letting her see what it's like to live without him. Sure, I can see that with men who don't want to save their marriages and just want a little payback before the divorce. But again, for men who want to save their marriages, how does cutting the wayward wife off financially make them love you more or want to emotionally recommit to you? If I was a man and my WW tried to crawl back to me because she couldn't make it on her own financially, I wouldn't take her back because I would know she only wanted me for my money. Can a BH ever be truly at peace with his marriage or his wife knowing it was his money..not him...that made her come back? My therapist told me many WW recommit to their marriages solely for financial reasons...not out of love. And BH take them back. I don't understand this.
Dexter Morgan Posted May 11, 2009 Posted May 11, 2009 I fear if our marriage does ultimately end, I'm going to look back with regret that I was unable to overlook the continued daily contact and interactions with OM. The only alternative would have been to put up with her interactions with the other man and her unwillingness to get out there and really look for another job. you shouldn't have had to put up with her keeping a job where she will see her OM every day. The marriage ending to such a woman unwilling to do WHATEVER it takes to make things right is a good thing in my opinion. I know it doesn't seem like it now, but trust me, there is light at the end of the tunnel, and when its all said and done, especially later on when you find a woman that knows the meaning of the word respect, you will think to yourself, "gee, wish I would have done this sooner". I asked her what she would have done if the tables were turned and it was me having continued daily contact with a co-worker I'd fallen for, and she said she would have "looked at the EA as a symptom of other issues, and she would have tried to understand what the other person was supplying to me, and she would have tried to win me back, make me love her even more." In other words, she was wanting me to be a knight in shining armor coming in on my white horse to "win her back." No, what she was doing was excusing her behavior. Maybe she has a point. She would have had a point if she highlighted that there may have been problems in the marriage. But the way she answered that question of yours was self-serving, thoughtless, and not at all the way she would have seen it if it had happened to her. I just wasn't strong enough to do that. I tried to endure the continued contact. See thats just it, she could have seen it as there were problems in the marriage that needed to be addressed, but she totally ignored that fact that if the tables were turned, and that if you were still in contact with the theoretical OW, that working on problems in the marriage are pretty much futile if the WS still has contact with the OP. Hell, D-Day was 10 months ago, and her going NC with OM has never happened. I have never enjoyed that luxury, that peace of mind. Never. She has seen him every work day since D-Day. I know there are probably better people than me who could have endured this better than I have and who maybe could have handled it better than I have. Its not a matter of "better people". It doesn't make anyone "better" to be able to ignore the fact that a spouse still has contact with their affair partner. I fear I may look back on this with regret that I could have/should have been stronger in the face of her continued daily contact with OM. What you are describing here is someone that would have considered being a doormat out of desperation just to keep the marriage. It makes me wonder what else you would have put up with just to stay married to her. She is doing you a huge favor, take the ball and run with it. I can see you being regretful if she had gone NC with the OM and isn't seeing him on a daily basis. But that isn't the case here. Unfortunately, I've never been content with it. Just the opposite. It's been a torturous purgatory. And now she wants out because of how I've been during these 10 months. Which just shows me that she wasn't that willing to work on the marriage in the first place, as if refusing to get out of contact with the OM was indication of that enough. Yes, I've been ugly. I've never touched a hair on her head, but I've certainly called a spade a spade, and, at times, I've let her have it with both barrels. I understand she feels "under siege" and that my "verbal abuse" has been too much for her to handle. My "verbal abuse" is in response the the inhumane situation she has forced me to endure. She's called me a "bully"...I've told her that she's just as much of a "bully" for the way she has handled this. There is no winner here. I would have point blank asked her, "was I a bully BEFORE you developed an EA with another man?...did I mistreat you BEFORE you decided to stray?"
Dexter Morgan Posted May 11, 2009 Posted May 11, 2009 You can figure that they've slept together already. It's apparent by her actions, even if they didn't saddle up, they'er probably planning on it very soon. Time to lose her. nothing here to "lose", but rather dispose of.
Windy27 Posted May 11, 2009 Posted May 11, 2009 nothing here to "lose", but rather dispose of. Seriously, you need to stop copying my style of posting.
Owl Posted May 11, 2009 Posted May 11, 2009 I doubt she can just be "kicked out" as she lives in the house, too, and has as much legal right to live there as he does. But he can start a legal separation. I don't know what that would mean in terms of financial support. However, if he did "kick" her out and "cut her off" completely, "with nothing from him by way of support", what good would it do? I am assuming by "support" you mean financial? If she did come crawling back because she couldn't make it financially, would that satisfy Five&Dime? Would he really want a wife back who only came back to him for financial reasons? I truly do not understand men who want to save their marriages by kicking their wayward wives out and cutting off all financial support...letting her see what it's like to live without him. Sure, I can see that with men who don't want to save their marriages and just want a little payback before the divorce. But again, for men who want to save their marriages, how does cutting the wayward wife off financially make them love you more or want to emotionally recommit to you? If I was a man and my WW tried to crawl back to me because she couldn't make it on her own financially, I wouldn't take her back because I would know she only wanted me for my money. Can a BH ever be truly at peace with his marriage or his wife knowing it was his money..not him...that made her come back? My therapist told me many WW recommit to their marriages solely for financial reasons...not out of love. And BH take them back. I don't understand this. Here's my thought...as a BS...I firmly encourage any BS to let the WS leave the home during the initial battle times when it appears that someone has to leave. Because...and this is only my opinion...I firmly believe in letting the one who wanders and wants out of the marriage to be the one to have to deal with the entire "starting over" issue. PART of that marriage that they're rejecting IS that "financial security"...for many, this is an emotional need. One step towards "reality" is letting the OM/OW be forced with meeting ALL of the WS's emotional needs...not just the ones that they WANT to meet. Sometimes that severe does of reality does wonders towards waking up a WS who otherwise remains in their fantasy affair bubble. Frankly, it was part of my wife's "wake up call" as well...because I made it clear that if she wanted to do a long term seperation...it would be divorce. And...one of the very first things I helped her with to plan her seperation was to work on her resume, and hone her interview skills...because she was going to have to make her own way in the world, for the first time in decades. Her choice to reconcile may well have BEEN part of that "reality check"...honestly, I don't care that it was...because WHATEVER it was that caused her to stay, she eventually DID catch on, and began wholeheartedly working on our marriage for it's own sake...not just her financial security. Last thought...I'm not targetting WW's with all of this...I'm targetting WS's...of both sexes. It doesn't matter to me if the WS is the main bread winner or a partner who stays at home, nor does it matter if they're male or female.
LifesontheUp Posted May 11, 2009 Posted May 11, 2009 I agree with you to a point Owl but this WS is 10 months more deep into the affair. Despite her husband five&dime finding out, she has continued to disregard his feelings. In fact she continues to see the OM day in day out. I think she has passed the point of no return - just my honest opinion. five&dime - she started off by telling you she didn't want to be married anymore, then it changed to seperation. I think she watered it down when she realised how hurt you were. IMHO, it very much sounds like seperation leading to divorce at this stage. With this in mind, I would tell her if she wants to seperate, she finds her own place and do so urgently. You need to then start planning and looking after yourself. Get legal advice (you don't have to go ahead with anything if you don't want to yet), take comfort in friends and family. Its hard, I know I've been there but it will get better.
Owl Posted May 11, 2009 Posted May 11, 2009 Actually, I agree with your assessment, Life. She's either "done"...in which case, booting her out and letting her start dealing with living life on her own without help from 5&10 is good for both of them........or.......she's not done, and it's a wake up call. From my viewpoint...this action would be a "win/win" for 5&10...
taylor Posted May 11, 2009 Posted May 11, 2009 Here's my thought...as a BS...I firmly encourage any BS to let the WS leave the home during the initial battle times when it appears that someone has to leave. I totally agree with you here, Owl. Why hold anyone to a marriage they don't want anymore. If my husband told me he wanted out, I'd pack his bags for him. But the thing is, once he went out the door, he'd never be allowed back in. I wouldn't want him back. And I certainly wouldn't want him back if he crawled back because of a need for financial security. I would laugh all the way to the front door as I showed him the way out....again. Her choice to reconcile may well have BEEN part of that "reality check"...honestly, I don't care that it was...because WHATEVER it was that caused her to stay, she eventually DID catch on, and began wholeheartedly working on our marriage for it's own sake...not just her financial security. It would be hard for me to even consider working on a marriage with a wayward spouse who only came back for financial reasons. That wouldn't give me one ounce of incentive. And even if I did give the marriage a second chance (I doubt I would) I would always wonder in the back of my mind if he only came back and was only staying for my money.
tami-chan Posted May 11, 2009 Posted May 11, 2009 Seriously, you need to stop copying my style of posting. LOL...cute..
Owl Posted May 11, 2009 Posted May 11, 2009 I totally agree with you here, Owl. Why hold anyone to a marriage they don't want anymore. If my husband told me he wanted out, I'd pack his bags for him. But the thing is, once he went out the door, he'd never be allowed back in. I wouldn't want him back. And I certainly wouldn't want him back if he crawled back because of a need for financial security. I would laugh all the way to the front door as I showed him the way out....again. Something to consider...as a very real possibility...had your EA continued on unabated...you could well have been in the role you describe here. Had your husband discovered the affair first and busted you...you may well have been the one who initially wanted to leave, but later decided that it was a mistake. It's easy to say that "if he wanted out, I'd pack his bags"...I used to say something very similar about what would happen if my wife ever cheated on me...but you don't know until you get there. It would be hard for me to even consider working on a marriage with a wayward spouse who only came back for financial reasons. That wouldn't give me one ounce of incentive. And even if I did give the marriage a second chance (I doubt I would) I would always wonder in the back of my mind if he only came back and was only staying for my money. Another thought...my money is that very, VERY few WS's actually think through all the reasons that they decide to work on reconciling their marriage. And I'd bet that a very darned few of them were ENTIRELY, 100% based on utter and total feelings of love for their BS's at the time. With not one bit of "self-serving, looking out for myself, not losing my security-blanket" kind of feelings tucked in there...frankly...I'd say that some part of your choice to end your affair/and not escalate it was likely based off not wanting to lose what you had...not solely based off of your feelings of love for your husband. Have you ever considered what doubts your husband may still have about your reasons for staying in the marriage after your emotional affair?
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