Tony T Posted May 9, 2009 Posted May 9, 2009 Great story on infidelity on Dateline NBC last night. If you missed it, there's a link four posts below where you can watch the video on your computer.
Groovy Posted May 9, 2009 Posted May 9, 2009 Yeah, I'm watching it. Don't agree with it all. I have wanted to cheat but never have. And that one time years ago hasn't been about any of the reasons they list. Don't believe the media hype!
tami-chan Posted May 9, 2009 Posted May 9, 2009 WHAAAAT? this author said that for every man who cheats there is a wife slacking....too simplistic... and this guy JOE, says he accepts part of the blame that drove his wife to cheat....I thought he was going to cry.... I like the this new type of lie detector! THE MRI!
burning 4 revenge Posted May 9, 2009 Posted May 9, 2009 WHAAAAT? this author said that for every man who cheats there is a wife slacking....too simplistic... and this guy JOE, says he accepts part of the blame that drove his wife to cheat....I thought he was going to cry.... I like the this new type of lie detector! THE MRI! They shouldn't waste MRIs as lie detectors, especially as theyre so short of them in Canada and the United Kindgom Talk about us Americans being spoiled
Athena Posted May 9, 2009 Posted May 9, 2009 You can watch it on your computer at http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/30645239/
OpenBook Posted May 9, 2009 Posted May 9, 2009 Good call Tony! I turned on NBC last night after I read your post, then I watched the Drew Peterson interview after it. Haven't watched NBC in a lo-o-o-ong time. I was impressed. Both specials made me very glad I'm not married. Some comments about the "Your Cheating Heart" special -- It struck me that both men and women want the same thing - emotional validation - from their partners. The difference is in how they want to receive it: men thru sex, women thru adoring words. That's great to wish for. But is that fair to ask that of another human being, to constantly provide them with emotional validation (in the manner of their choosing) for the rest of their life? Is that REALLY what we sign up for when we exchange those vows? Both the reformed OW and the counselor/author maintained that the BS has to take some responsibility for the atmosphere in their marriage that led to their mate's cheating. If I'm interpreting this correctly, the BS is responsible for the health of their marriage and ergo the happiness of their partner. If their partner isn't happy with their marriage, they are more likely to stray. God knows I've argued this very same point on these boards. But now I'm beginning to see why BS's are so adamant about their refusal to take any responsibility for their mate's decision to cheat, completely separating the state of their marriage from the cheating. It seems a little precarious to me... and an awful lot of pressure on the BS to make sure their partner is always happy with them. How in the world can one accomplish that on a consistent basis over many years?!? It sounds like extortion to me. It also sounds like an excuse on the CS's part... a deflection of blame onto their S. "Well if you had taken better care of me at home, I wouldn't have gone out and cheated." It's a Catch-22. Nobody can win this. Well, except for the CS who gets his needs met thru multiple parties. And BTW, the good-looking black couple featured in the special who've weathered the H's A? I didn't buy his crocodile tears for one second. He reminded me of Kobe Bryant when he made his announcement to the press about his A. Lots of tears and pauses; what a performance! And I didn't buy the white dude's story who took the MRI either. Apparently his W isn't buying it either. I need to look up her website...
Reggie Posted May 9, 2009 Posted May 9, 2009 Good point, Open. It is ridiculous to expect someone else to take responsibility for one's happiness. I think most people want to meet their partner's "needs" but the communication of the needs is often lacking. And, folks just have unrealistic expectations about what marriage will be like. So, with these unrelistic expectations, they become unhappy. Expecting your partner to meet you at the door in a nightgown with a martini or to come home with roses after busting on'e butt all day is just too much. I see time and again WSs complaining that their 'needs" were not being met. I wonder how often they effectively communicated their dissatisfaction, in concrete language and how realistic their "needs" are.
Meaplus3 Posted May 9, 2009 Posted May 9, 2009 Some comments about the "Your Cheating Heart" special -- It struck me that both men and women want the same thing - emotional validation - from their partners. The difference is in how they want to receive it: men thru sex, women thru adoring words. And this is what will alway perplex me when I think back to my ea with xmm. Now, he claimed to have a good sex life with his wife So. I still often wonder what he was getting from me? Yes, I know I made him horny.. but he would never go all the way. Why would he need a rush from me if the sex was so plentiful at home? Was he lying?? So.. in this case perhaps it's not so true that men receive it through sex. The mechanics behind cheating baffle me. Mea:)
Montclair0011 Posted May 9, 2009 Posted May 9, 2009 So far I've watched the "mistress" turned infidelity expert and that was as barfable as it gets. I hate the way these media presentations just reinforce the stereotypes of women falling down in the job. It makes me want to scream because, as a woman who has been left by her husband for another woman, I have to endure much disdain and pity from others who are still married. Now I am watching the rest of it and . . . UGH. This woman, Marie, is pathetic. They never let normal looking women appear on TV except when they want to condemn them. The husband is better looking than she is and you can be sure the watching audience is on his side. Basically, in the media, it all gets presented in the end as the world needs to revolve around the happiness of the man, and any disruption in that will lead to cheating and abandonment. Women are responsible to keep the man from cheating and to appreciate the husbands, no matter how the husband act. They never mention how men ignore or appreciate women. Talking about men with BPD, or bi-polar or just nutjobs incapable of being loyal are never mentioned. Now it's Angela + Marshall (?) and he needs more sex. He's sleeping with a college senior (talk about inappropriate). This guy is bad news, but Angela was not putting out so on TV it's Angela's fault. "Maybe the fault lines are not so clear cut" OK, now it's back to the infidelty expert and I'm out of here.
Reggie Posted May 9, 2009 Posted May 9, 2009 BHs get it , too, Montclair. Folks wonder what you lacked in all types of areas.
Athena Posted May 9, 2009 Posted May 9, 2009 And I didn't buy the white dude's story who took the MRI either. Apparently his W isn't buying it either. I need to look up her website... What is her website?
angie2443 Posted May 9, 2009 Posted May 9, 2009 Good call Tony! I turned on NBC last night after I read your post, then I watched the Drew Peterson interview after it. Haven't watched NBC in a lo-o-o-ong time. I was impressed. Both specials made me very glad I'm not married. Some comments about the "Your Cheating Heart" special -- It struck me that both men and women want the same thing - emotional validation - from their partners. The difference is in how they want to receive it: men thru sex, women thru adoring words. That's great to wish for. But is that fair to ask that of another human being, to constantly provide them with emotional validation (in the manner of their choosing) for the rest of their life? Is that REALLY what we sign up for when we exchange those vows? ... Although I'm mostly satisfied with my marriage at this point, I totally understand bieng glad not to be married. I read the article that went with the show. This idea that you constantly have to take care of the other person's emotional needs or else, just sounds exhausting. I understand that a relationship has to be maintained and everyone needs validation from time to time, but there are going to be moments when you can't validate your partner. There going to be moments where you can't be the perfect partner. If you have to worry about your partner cheating everytime you didn't validate them or weren't a perfect communicator, then what's the point.
OldEurope Posted May 9, 2009 Posted May 9, 2009 Marriage isn't about "taking care of each other's emotional needs" and all this Oprah/Phil claptrap. It is about two happy, strong individuals with a sexual and spiritual attraction to each other that they wish to celebrate through committment to each other. When you are happy and humming along, you naturally look out for the other person; you want to dote on them or cook for them mainly for selfish reasons--i.e. the pleasure you get seeing them pleased. No reasonable married pair expect each other to be in a great mood all of the time. Nor is it, "Do this or else". Not with emotionally mature couples that is. Also, it would behoove married couples to get a sense of humor in gear when the going gets stupid. Humor is totally underrated as a couple's salvation, a therapy. I don't mean ha-ha-ha laughing at serious issues. Rather, the ability to smooth all the bumps of the quotidien through cheer and a great, light attitude without which so many allow silly things to rot out a relationship. My advice? Stay very good looking and very healthy and interesting and marry a little later. Learn who you are first, grow up, learn to value love. xoOE
Touche Posted May 9, 2009 Posted May 9, 2009 Good call Tony! I turned on NBC last night after I read your post, then I watched the Drew Peterson interview after it. Haven't watched NBC in a lo-o-o-ong time. I was impressed. Both specials made me very glad I'm not married. Some comments about the "Your Cheating Heart" special -- It struck me that both men and women want the same thing - emotional validation - from their partners. The difference is in how they want to receive it: men thru sex, women thru adoring words. That's great to wish for. But is that fair to ask that of another human being, to constantly provide them with emotional validation (in the manner of their choosing) for the rest of their life? Is that REALLY what we sign up for when we exchange those vows? Both the reformed OW and the counselor/author maintained that the BS has to take some responsibility for the atmosphere in their marriage that led to their mate's cheating. If I'm interpreting this correctly, the BS is responsible for the health of their marriage and ergo the happiness of their partner. If their partner isn't happy with their marriage, they are more likely to stray. God knows I've argued this very same point on these boards. But now I'm beginning to see why BS's are so adamant about their refusal to take any responsibility for their mate's decision to cheat, completely separating the state of their marriage from the cheating. It seems a little precarious to me... and an awful lot of pressure on the BS to make sure their partner is always happy with them. How in the world can one accomplish that on a consistent basis over many years?!? It sounds like extortion to me. It also sounds like an excuse on the CS's part... a deflection of blame onto their S. "Well if you had taken better care of me at home, I wouldn't have gone out and cheated." It's a Catch-22. Nobody can win this. Well, except for the CS who gets his needs met thru multiple parties. And BTW, the good-looking black couple featured in the special who've weathered the H's A? I didn't buy his crocodile tears for one second. He reminded me of Kobe Bryant when he made his announcement to the press about his A. Lots of tears and pauses; what a performance! And I didn't buy the white dude's story who took the MRI either. Apparently his W isn't buying it either. I need to look up her website... Although I'm mostly satisfied with my marriage at this point, I totally understand bieng glad not to be married. I read the article that went with the show. This idea that you constantly have to take care of the other person's emotional needs or else, just sounds exhausting. I understand that a relationship has to be maintained and everyone needs validation from time to time, but there are going to be moments when you can't validate your partner. There going to be moments where you can't be the perfect partner. If you have to worry about your partner cheating everytime you didn't validate them or weren't a perfect communicator, then what's the point. Did either of you see the Elizabeth Edwards interview? It's funny that she mentioned being in sweats and a headband and I guess she wondered if that drove him into the arms of another woman. She knows now that none of it matters....not looking our best and not always providing emotional validation.That's not always what drives a person to cheat. First of all, I believe the person who cheats doesn't do it, most if any of the time, because of anything the spouse is doing/not doing. This is about a person who needs external validation because of their own ego. The spouse has nothing to do with it. This kind of person has some impulse control issues as well. Marriage isn't about constantly providing validation or the spouse cheats. Let's please keep in mind that not all men cheat and not all women cheat either. They cited some statistics but I can't remember them now. Marriage isn't about "taking care of each other's emotional needs" and all this Oprah/Phil claptrap. It is about two happy, strong individuals with a sexual and spiritual attraction to each other that they wish to celebrate through committment to each other. When you are happy and humming along, you naturally look out for the other person; you want to dote on them or cook for them mainly for selfish reasons--i.e. the pleasure you get seeing them pleased. No reasonable married pair expect each other to be in a great mood all of the time. Nor is it, "Do this or else". Not with emotionally mature couples that is. Also, it would behoove married couples to get a sense of humor in gear when the going gets stupid. Humor is totally underrated as a couple's salvation, a therapy. I don't mean ha-ha-ha laughing at serious issues. Rather, the ability to smooth all the bumps of the quotidien through cheer and a great, light attitude without which so many allow silly things to rot out a relationship. My advice? Stay very good looking and very healthy and interesting and marry a little later. Learn who you are first, grow up, learn to value love. xoOE I don't always agree with you, OE but that was a very good post. I agree wholeheartedly with every point you made here.
Trialbyfire Posted May 9, 2009 Posted May 9, 2009 Although I'm mostly satisfied with my marriage at this point, I totally understand bieng glad not to be married. I read the article that went with the show. This idea that you constantly have to take care of the other person's emotional needs or else, just sounds exhausting. I understand that a relationship has to be maintained and everyone needs validation from time to time, but there are going to be moments when you can't validate your partner. There going to be moments where you can't be the perfect partner. If you have to worry about your partner cheating everytime you didn't validate them or weren't a perfect communicator, then what's the point.There's a reasonability litmus test. When there's a substantial gap between partners of what's reasonable, that points to serious compatibility issues. Some people are higher energy than others. As well, some are willing to give more than others. It should never be exhausting. If it is, then one partner isn't doing their share. Also, different people speak different languages of love. Let's pretend you cook for someone daily, as a gesture of your love. This doesn't mean that's what the other partner considers a gesture of love. They might appreciate a night out to a pro-sports game, as more a gesture of love. I don't buy into the propaganda that all men are only fueled by sex. IMO, no one takes rejection well, is probably more appropriate, since then, it becomes the sticking point within a relationship.
OpenBook Posted May 9, 2009 Posted May 9, 2009 Marriage isn't about "taking care of each other's emotional needs" and all this Oprah/Phil claptrap. It is about two happy, strong individuals with a sexual and spiritual attraction to each other that they wish to celebrate through committment to each other. When you are happy and humming along, you naturally look out for the other person; you want to dote on them or cook for them mainly for selfish reasons--i.e. the pleasure you get seeing them pleased. Well then I hope for your sake that happiness bubble you're in never bursts from any pinprick of reality; and neither one of you ever becomes unhappy, ever.
OldEurope Posted May 9, 2009 Posted May 9, 2009 I don't always agree with you, OE but that was a very good post. I agree wholeheartedly with every point you made here. Thanks Touche! I know we have our points of disagreement, but I enjoy your posts often too and respect your views! OE
OldEurope Posted May 9, 2009 Posted May 9, 2009 Well then I hope for your sake that happiness bubble you're in never bursts from any pinprick of reality; and neither one of you ever becomes unhappy, ever. Why should happiness and reality be two different things? For me they are one. No bubble. I went into my marriage in love with life as well as my H. This is a matter of personality and a view of the world. As for day to day "unhappiness"--that is to be expected from time to time, in all areas of life. But I choose whether any of that is going to profoundly change my life. My happiness stems from my outright refusal to remain unhappy. xoOE
Touche Posted May 9, 2009 Posted May 9, 2009 Well then I hope for your sake that happiness bubble you're in never bursts from any pinprick of reality; and neither one of you ever becomes unhappy, ever. Why would you say that to her? If I read her correctly she was saying that they handle their issues with humor and maturity so that they never become HUGE issues. At least that's the way it is in my "happiness bubble." The point being that we all play a huge part in creating our "happiness bubbles" as you put it. Of course there will be "pinpricks" of reality. Of course. No marriage is immune to that. But the important part is how we handle those pinpricks. They can make us grow closer and more united, or they can spit us apart and make us turn on each other. So trust me, even those shots of reality and just real life, can make us stronger and more secure in our little happiness bubble. I hope that one day you experience that with a good man. TBF, I agreed with your post except for this: It should never be exhausting. If it is, then one partner isn't doing their share. Not necessarily. It's really more about compatible expectations, which you did touch on. What's not doing their "fair share" for one person, might be perfectly acceptable to another partner. So it's not really as simplistic as one person doing their fare share or not. It's also more about the two people's character. Do you see what I'm saying? A person who doesn't do their fair share emotionally is not that hard to spot. You'll probably see signs of that manifested in other areas of their life. The key is to pick a person who you know will not likely slack off emotionally.
IrishCarBomb Posted May 9, 2009 Posted May 9, 2009 Initial reaction to Dateline piece: -Cheating statistics were surprising. Of those that cheat, only 60% are men. I would have expected the numbers of men to represent a higher percentage. -The "mistress" seemed to be a complete joke. Sort of like: "I used to be the bad guy, but don't hate me now because I've reformed and I'm helping you wives out by lecturing you after sleeping with your husbands. Respect me dammit!!" -Was surprised that 88% of men that cheated didn't set out/intend/try to have an affair. -I felt they phrased the issue wrong. They seemed to ask the question: "Why do men cheat?", and then they had as an aside that some women cheat. As a result, they said "men cheat because they lack the emotional connection/validation from their wives, not because of the sex or 'hot younger girl'". I think this ignores an important factor though: the wives are not dictators of how the marriages works. These men that lacked the emotional connection looked like they were victims (somewhat), but they really are also responsible for it. I think if they approached it instead as "why do people cheat?", it would have avoided the gender bashing tone.
Touche Posted May 9, 2009 Posted May 9, 2009 Thanks Touche! I know we have our points of disagreement, but I enjoy your posts often too and respect your views! OE Thanks so much, OE. I do appreciate that. Why should happiness and reality be two different things? For me they are one. No bubble. I went into my marriage in love witte, in all areas of life. But I choose whether any of that is going to profoundly change my life. My happiness stems from my outright refusal to remain unhappy. xoOE You posted while I was writing my post so I didn't see this until now. As you can see we were kind of saying the same thing. It's all about things being in our control and not letting outside forces i.e. "reality" as OB put it, dictate and control our state of being. Just about anything challenging or negative in life can either make us miserable or can make us grow and/or take us in a new and unexpected direction. It's really all up to us.
tami-chan Posted May 9, 2009 Posted May 9, 2009 Why would you say that to her? If I read her correctly she was saying that they handle their issues with humor and maturity so that they never become HUGE I suspect because misery loves company...and darnit! OE is just too happy for our own comfort!!!!
Trialbyfire Posted May 9, 2009 Posted May 9, 2009 I should have been more clear by stating that it's one or the other, Touche. Disparate energy levels hence compatibility issues or one partner is dragging dead weight.
Touche Posted May 9, 2009 Posted May 9, 2009 I should have been more clear by stating that it's one or the other, Touche. Disparate energy levels hence compatibility issues or one partner is dragging dead weight. But one partner dragging dead weight is a clear sign that they're not compatible with the other person. I guess what I'm saying is that it's all one and the same. To me, there's no either/or...no "one or the other." They're all one thing and that would be incompatible. That's the point I was trying to make. You can't consider yourself compatible with someone who you view as being dead weight.
Trialbyfire Posted May 9, 2009 Posted May 9, 2009 But one partner dragging dead weight is a clear sign that they're not compatible with the other person. I guess what I'm saying is that it's all one and the same. To me, there's no either/or...no "one or the other." They're all one thing and that would be incompatible. That's the point I was trying to make. You can't consider yourself compatible with someone who you view as being dead weight.It depends on how far along your relationship or marriage when this happens. You can't always tell at the outset since people tend to put their best face forward, at the beginning. I agree that WHEN something like this becomes evident, it's time to discuss it and if there's no change, you walk, due to incompatibility.
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