MissHollywood Posted May 7, 2009 Posted May 7, 2009 I've seen it happen. It takes one party to be terribly patient and willing to wait for the other party. But I've only seen a case and therefore labeled a rare case.
tinklebell Posted May 7, 2009 Posted May 7, 2009 most women know within the first few minutes of meeting a new dude whether he'll every sleep with her. so chasing for more than a few days is futile. Don't most men also know within seconds or minutes whether they like a woman? 1
Trialbyfire Posted May 7, 2009 Posted May 7, 2009 most women know within the first few minutes of meeting a new dude whether he'll every sleep with her. so chasing for more than a few days is futile.I disagree to an extent. Sometimes, even if you find them attractive, due to their actions in the long run, you don't end up doing the horizontal mambo. It's less to do with the chase factor and more to do with consistency.
carhill Posted May 7, 2009 Posted May 7, 2009 Don't most men also know within seconds or minutes whether they like a woman? Probably. Not my wiring. I need to become more superficial 1
Ruby Slippers Posted May 7, 2009 Posted May 7, 2009 The title of this book is misleading -- it's called Why Men Marry Bitches to up sales. A title that would more accurately reflect the main message of the book is Why Men Marry Women Who Have Their Own Lives, but that probably wouldn't end up on the book of the week table. I avoided books like this for a long time, but finally decided to read a few. All it's saying is that if you have your own life, loves, friends, activities, and goals, that makes you far more attractive than a woman who is just looking for some chump to step into her fantasy idea of husband. And of course, this is true for both women and men. 1
You'reasian Posted May 7, 2009 Posted May 7, 2009 Probably. Not my wiring. I need to become more superficial Ditto. I too need to become more superficial and women have actually reaffirmed this too. When I go for average-lookers with good personality, they usually don't feel the chemistry and want to be friends - which is strange, because I consider myself atleast average looking. When I go for women whom are really cool or smokin' hot, I somehow get a connection...lol Doesn't really make sense, but I'll take it.
Untouchable_Fire Posted May 7, 2009 Posted May 7, 2009 One important part of the "chase" is value. Men want valuable women. What makes a women "valuable"? Woman who don't give it up easily. The definition of "it" depends on the guy. Some define "it" as physical closeness, some emotional closeness, most a mix of the two. Why do they want women who don't give it up easily? Because if every guy can get "it" then it has no value. It's like saying you can bench 50 lbs. Big deal, anyone can do that. So this translates as such: Women should play hard to get in the sense of being selective, not in the sense of making the guy chase you. If a guy is interested in you, be receptive, but don't just jump right in. Take the time you need to know him. Don't jerk him around or play games or get close then pull back. Just show him that you're selective about who you get close to and that if he's the right guy he'll get something valuable in the end. RF Yeah, this part can be true for me.
Perrier Posted May 7, 2009 Posted May 7, 2009 Honestly with the explosion in relationship books of this nature, it's a wonder anybody is coupling up at all. I read a few books by mimi tanner on 'playing hard to get' for the ladies, 'calling men' etiquette and the like and was amazed that dan bacon and others have brought out their own 'dont chase her, make her chase you' books. In fact a lot of the male orientated forums Ive come across also promote this mentality amogst their members. The more natural less contrived boy/girl interaction now belongs to yesteryear it seems. Sometimes I wonder if these 'self help' books are the result of frustration with the opposite sex from wanting to avoid being 'taken for a ride' to wanting to 'get the upper hand', I believe these tactics take away the natural pleasure of courtship, dating and romance, if it exists any more. I agree the labels 'bitches' and 'bastards' or 'bad boys' are modern emotive buzzwords and frankly theses labels encourage disrespect for each other amongst all of us. What happened to kindness and referring to ourselves in nicer more palatable terms?
kizik Posted May 7, 2009 Posted May 7, 2009 This is all a game that we need to stop playing. As other posters have mentioned, I will show interest in a woman exactly ONCE. She either shows it back and we move from there, or she doesn't and I go live my f*cking life like everyone else. Still, I agree that there needs to be a bit of a "dance". Like Vince Vaughn says in Swingers: "Laugh all you want, Mike, but if you call too soon, you might scare off a couple of beautiful babies who want to party."
Trialbyfire Posted May 7, 2009 Posted May 7, 2009 Honestly with the explosion in relationship books of this nature, it's a wonder anybody is coupling up at all. I read a few books by mimi tanner on 'playing hard to get' for the ladies, 'calling men' etiquette and the like and was amazed that dan bacon and others have brought out their own 'dont chase her, make her chase you' books. In fact a lot of the male orientated forums Ive come across also promote this mentality amogst their members. The more natural less contrived boy/girl interaction now belongs to yesteryear it seems. Sometimes I wonder if these 'self help' books are the result of frustration with the opposite sex from wanting to avoid being 'taken for a ride' to wanting to 'get the upper hand', I believe these tactics take away the natural pleasure of courtship, dating and romance, if it exists any more. I agree the labels 'bitches' and 'bastards' or 'bad boys' are modern emotive buzzwords and frankly theses labels encourage disrespect for each other amongst all of us. What happened to kindness and referring to ourselves in nicer more palatable terms? Ba da bing! I rarely read these books or follow dating rules, beyond the simple rule of "never chase a man". If he's interested, he'll let me know by asking me out and if I reciprocate, I'll accept. Beyond that, our personalities will either complement each other or be incompatible.
carhill Posted May 8, 2009 Posted May 8, 2009 Simplicity is elegant kizik, I like your philosophy but will suggest one thing... remove this part: "or she doesn't and I go live my f*cking life like everyone else." Positive thoughts evoke positive responses.
Morgenstern Posted May 8, 2009 Posted May 8, 2009 idk, if a girls playing hard to get theres always another girl out there who isnt playing games thats just as good if not better! So dont over do it either. I personally wouldnt want my time wasted.
Admiral Posted May 8, 2009 Posted May 8, 2009 Any ATTRACTIVE man will have other women he can date, so he won't have to do any chasing. He'll make the women chase HIM.
kizik Posted May 8, 2009 Posted May 8, 2009 kizik, I like your philosophy but will suggest one thing... remove this part: "or she doesn't and I go live my f*cking life like everyone else." Positive thoughts evoke positive responses. Carhill, you're such a hippie. (Says the guy with Phish in his avvie.)
Author pinkberry Posted May 8, 2009 Author Posted May 8, 2009 Honestly with the explosion in relationship books of this nature, it's a wonder anybody is coupling up at all. I read a few books by mimi tanner on 'playing hard to get' for the ladies, 'calling men' etiquette and the like and was amazed that dan bacon and others have brought out their own 'dont chase her, make her chase you' books. In fact a lot of the male orientated forums Ive come across also promote this mentality amogst their members. The more natural less contrived boy/girl interaction now belongs to yesteryear it seems. Sometimes I wonder if these 'self help' books are the result of frustration with the opposite sex from wanting to avoid being 'taken for a ride' to wanting to 'get the upper hand', I believe these tactics take away the natural pleasure of courtship, dating and romance, if it exists any more. I agree the labels 'bitches' and 'bastards' or 'bad boys' are modern emotive buzzwords and frankly theses labels encourage disrespect for each other amongst all of us. What happened to kindness and referring to ourselves in nicer more palatable terms? Agreed. A woman I work with SWEARS by this and other such books to govern her love life. She kept insisting that I buy "Why Men Love Bitches" and read it because it would "change my life". Honestly, I find having to play all these "games" extremely exhausting! She actually got upset with me for texting a guy I'm interested in "too soon" after he texted me - I should've simply ignored him. What??? It's refreshing to hear opinions from real guys and gals.
runner Posted May 8, 2009 Posted May 8, 2009 Dating today is all but ruined because of crap like this. Instead of just meeting someone, deciding you like each other, and going from there, it's now all a stupid contest to prove how manipulative you can be. Books like 'The Game' teach guys to belittle and ignore the women they want, so as to build some sort of desire on the woman's part to garner your interest. Why in the world do I want to be a douche to someone I want to date, and play on their insecurities, just to get them to go out with me? If chatting with me for 5 -10 minutes isn't enough to give me your number, I guess we aren't meant to be. Then you have books like this, and others, which teach women to be evasive, not return calls, and generally show a very minimal amount of interest. This is intended to trigger the guys 'hunter' instincts, but let me tell you what it does: it pisses us off, and anyone with a pair bails. Seriously, if you like a guy - make it obvious! We like that, we're really simple creatures, we don't speak in inuendo or body language. We like it when you let us know you like us, it makes it easier for everyone. Books that teach you to use tricks and manipulation are just a waste of paper. Seriously, you just have to be yourself and roll with the punches. If youre not going to be yourself, youre not going to get the guy right for YOU, youre going to get some guy you beat in a test of stubborness. excellent yep - if she doesn't reciprocate my interests, hasta la vista. i'm way too busy for this crap.
Untouchable_Fire Posted May 8, 2009 Posted May 8, 2009 Agreed. A woman I work with SWEARS by this and other such books to govern her love life. She kept insisting that I buy "Why Men Love Bitches" and read it because it would "change my life". Honestly, I find having to play all these "games" extremely exhausting! She actually got upset with me for texting a guy I'm interested in "too soon" after he texted me - I should've simply ignored him. What??? It's refreshing to hear opinions from real guys and gals. Books like that are one size fit all. It may help her, but not you. Honestly, I don't feel like it addresses the underlying issue. If a girl is really clingy it's typically because she is insecure. Acting like she isn't for the first month of a relationship won't fix the underlying problem. The guy is just going to wind up feeling like he got caught in a bait and switch. Whereas if she had just kept on as is... chances are she would find a guy that likes her as she is. 1
Trialbyfire Posted May 8, 2009 Posted May 8, 2009 Books like that are one size fit all. It may help her, but not you. Honestly, I don't feel like it addresses the underlying issue. If a girl is really clingy it's typically because she is insecure. Acting like she isn't for the first month of a relationship won't fix the underlying problem. The guy is just going to wind up feeling like he got caught in a bait and switch. Whereas if she had just kept on as is... chances are she would find a guy that likes her as she is.Totally! This is applicable to both men and women. Also, clingy is subjective.
You'reasian Posted May 8, 2009 Posted May 8, 2009 Agreed. A woman I work with SWEARS by this and other such books to govern her love life. She kept insisting that I buy "Why Men Love Bitches" and read it because it would "change my life". Honestly, I find having to play all these "games" extremely exhausting! She actually got upset with me for texting a guy I'm interested in "too soon" after he texted me - I should've simply ignored him. What??? It's refreshing to hear opinions from real guys and gals. Check out the author of the next book you read. The first book you mentioned about we guys and hunting was probably written by a woman who has never gone hunting. Common sense would tell me that if I was a woman who wanted to learn about men, I'd read books written by men (I had to borrow some commen sense to write that last sentence lol). Better yet, if you have questions about guys, what a better way to find out by actually going out and talking to...guys. I know, its simple. When you ladies pick up all these angry author books, it basically trains you to push away the guys that you instinctively like in the first place by playing silly games. 1
gopher Posted May 8, 2009 Posted May 8, 2009 This is a great thread!, no gender bashing and just people sharing their opinions. I agree that it goes both ways....I enjoy dating women who are busy, have hobbies and especially friends. One of my red flags is a woman who has no close friendships, because those are the type who tend to make you the center of their lives. Frankly I don't need that much pressure... The reverse is true and even more so...a lot of guys have no friendships of any depth...and may have very few of the shallow friendships that revolve around sports or what not. I think the fact that I have a lot of friends, a very good job and hobbies that keep me busy make me far more interesting than if I was available at her beck and call, at home with the remote in hand. Also, I'm not one to chase too hard...if they don't show an initial interest, I move on pretty quickly. I do this for two reasons, the first is that I don't to make someone uncomfortable by pursuing them when they plainly have no interest. The second is a bit selfish, but I don't want to waste my time by working hard to try and date someone. Life is too short.
DMoon Posted May 8, 2009 Posted May 8, 2009 Ditto. I too need to become more superficial and women have actually reaffirmed this too. When I go for average-lookers with good personality, they usually don't feel the chemistry and want to be friends - which is strange, because I consider myself atleast average looking. When I go for women whom are really cool or smokin' hot, I somehow get a connection...lol Doesn't really make sense, but I'll take it. Maybe they thought you were out of their league and acted accordingly so they would not be rejected. Women I think are more cautious if they are acutely aware that they don't look like Aishwarya Rai and since men are more apt be motivated by looks they may have friendzoned to short circuit any hope on their part. I've seen that happen.
gopher Posted May 8, 2009 Posted May 8, 2009 Maybe they thought you were out of their league and acted accordingly so they would not be rejected. Women I think are more cautious if they are acutely aware that they don't look like Aishwarya Rai and since men are more apt be motivated by looks they may have friendzoned to short circuit any hope on their part. I've seen that happen. I had one woman tell me I was too good looking for her...but in the past, I've fmore often riendzoned myself right out of the box in order to avoid rejection. I'm still keenly aware of that, as my other thread dwells on.
WhyYesThankYou Posted May 8, 2009 Posted May 8, 2009 Women I think are more cautious if they are acutely aware that they don't look like Aishwarya Rai and since men are more apt be motivated by looks they may have friendzoned to short circuit any hope on their part. I've seen that happen. I do this. I'm certainly not a movie star, so when a guy approaches me, starts talking to me, I automatically assume he's just after information such as what time it is, or that he's a wingman and just talking to me so his mate can chat up my more attractive friend. Or, if it's clear that he's expressing interest in me, I wonder why. Why isn't he going for the more attractive girls? Is he just messing around? Is there something wrong with him that he's not having any success with the hot chicks, and so he's talking to me? So - if a guy approaches me out of the blue, yes, I can be very cautious at first. I try to be friendly and polite, but I'm sure some of those internal red flags come across anyway.
xpaperxcutx Posted May 9, 2009 Posted May 9, 2009 I do this. I'm certainly not a movie star, so when a guy approaches me, starts talking to me, I automatically assume he's just after information such as what time it is, or that he's a wingman and just talking to me so his mate can chat up my more attractive friend. Or, if it's clear that he's expressing interest in me, I wonder why. Why isn't he going for the more attractive girls? Is he just messing around? Is there something wrong with him that he's not having any success with the hot chicks, and so he's talking to me? So - if a guy approaches me out of the blue, yes, I can be very cautious at first. I try to be friendly and polite, but I'm sure some of those internal red flags come across anyway. I would think the same would go for guys as well. If I go up to a cute guy and ask him a question, I get automatically assumed I'm tying to hit on him. Do we really need to build a barrier around each other? I feel like we've all quarantined ourselves. 1
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