xpaperxcutx Posted May 6, 2009 Posted May 6, 2009 One of my dearest and closest friends is about to turn 20 this year. When we had dinner last night, she told me she had considered marrying her current bf when she turns 22. That information just scared me. She's Indian, and i understand that it's her custom to have arranged marriages. But she had met her bf from school and they're only recently approaching their 1 year mark. I'm happy for her that she found someone who loves her, but when I think about her getting married, I wonder if she is moving too fast too soon. She's an accomplished student, studying for her Masters, and pursuing a PHD later on. But if she gets married, would her life be too divided for her to pursue her dreams?
bean1 Posted May 6, 2009 Posted May 6, 2009 You are looking at it from a non-Indian cultural lens. What she is doing is very, very normal in Indian culture. My close friend, who is Indian, is 28, divorced, and childless. She is quite the exception. The majority of Indian girls, at age 22, are either married or planning their marriage. It's normal.
Author xpaperxcutx Posted May 6, 2009 Author Posted May 6, 2009 You are looking at it from a non-Indian cultural lens. What she is doing is very, very normal in Indian culture. My close friend, who is Indian, is 28, divorced, and childless. She is quite the exception. The majority of Indian girls, at age 22, are either married or planning their marriage. It's normal. I tried to look at it from an Indian point of view. But I also remembered that she had told me before she would never get married too soon or fast because she wanted to be her own person. I know she still has 2 years to decide, but I don't want her to jump the gun. The marriage isn't so much an arranged marriage as she just loves her bf very much. Her parents had no say in who she was dating but they both agreed that the bf was a good guy.
Els Posted May 6, 2009 Posted May 6, 2009 Culture doesn't make it any wiser a decision. Then again, she's only considering it two years in the future. By that time, she might realize that she would want to wait further, or might have broken up with her bf, etc... bit too early to start worrying for her I would say.
bean1 Posted May 6, 2009 Posted May 6, 2009 I tried to look at it from an Indian point of view. But I also remembered that she had told me before she would never get married too soon or fast because she wanted to be her own person. I know she still has 2 years to decide, but I don't want her to jump the gun. A lot of girls think that way but then at a certain age or stage in their relationship, they feel it is the right time. I'm sure she is also under enormous social pressure because a lot of girls in her culture are getting married, having babies, etc. If she is happy with her boyfriend then there is no reason she can't continue to go to school after marriage. I thought the same as her at 21 and changed my mind by 23.
Trialbyfire Posted May 6, 2009 Posted May 6, 2009 Holy Dinah! She's doing her postgrad at 19? How old was she when she graduated from highschool? Sounds to me like she's on an accelerated program for life!
bean1 Posted May 6, 2009 Posted May 6, 2009 Culture doesn't make it any wiser a decision. No, but I'm not sure why people are so against people getting married at 20-22. Yes, it is unusual to many people here (I would wager the majority of LS'ers are American and view marriage from that perspective) but in a lot of cultures it is the norm. OP's friend seems to have a good relationship, the family likes him, and is accelerating at her studies. Marriage does not end your life as an individual - in a good marriage, it enhances it. A lot of MA students and especially PhD students are married and have children. As the Simpsons so eloquently put it, "Marriage? But 1 out of 25 Indian marriages ends in divorce!"
Author xpaperxcutx Posted May 6, 2009 Author Posted May 6, 2009 Holy Dinah! She's doing her postgrad at 19? How old was she when she graduated from highschool? Sounds to me like she's on an accelerated program for life! Yeah TBF she graduated from high school in her second year, entered college on scholarship, took summer classes, and is going to do done with masters probably by the start of next year? She is smart, and she's majoring in physics. Her bf even teaches at the college, and he's 26
Author xpaperxcutx Posted May 6, 2009 Author Posted May 6, 2009 No, but I'm not sure why people are so against people getting married at 20-22. Yes, it is unusual to many people here (I would wager the majority of LS'ers are American and view marriage from that perspective) but in a lot of cultures it is the norm. OP's friend seems to have a good relationship, the family likes him, and is accelerating at her studies. Marriage does not end your life as an individual - in a good marriage, it enhances it. A lot of MA students and especially PhD students are married and have children. As the Simpsons so eloquently put it, "Marriage? But 1 out of 25 Indian marriages ends in divorce!" Bean you know people always say that, but when you think about it, sometimes they also go through unexpected pregnancies. I just think she has so much potential, and she told me herself that marriage is fine. But what happens when she starts popping out babies?
bean1 Posted May 6, 2009 Posted May 6, 2009 Bean you know people always say that, but when you think about it, sometimes they also go through unexpected pregnancies. I just think she has so much potential, and she told me herself that marriage is fine. But what happens when she starts popping out babies? It could happen, true. When I was your age (and her age), all I cared about was my career and getting my MA. Later on when I met my SO, I realized that being a wife and mother is actually what I want from life. Perhaps that is the route she will choose. Maybe she won't. An unwanted pregnancy will happen with or without the ring (despite what many Indian girls say, it is likely they are already sexually active!). Besides, an unexpected pregnancy is often a result of frequent sex, a lot more likely to happen pre-marriage than post-marriage lol!
Els Posted May 6, 2009 Posted May 6, 2009 No, but I'm not sure why people are so against people getting married at 20-22. Yes, it is unusual to many people here (I would wager the majority of LS'ers are American and view marriage from that perspective) but in a lot of cultures it is the norm. OP's friend seems to have a good relationship, the family likes him, and is accelerating at her studies. Marriage does not end your life as an individual - in a good marriage, it enhances it. A lot of MA students and especially PhD students are married and have children. As the Simpsons so eloquently put it, "Marriage? But 1 out of 25 Indian marriages ends in divorce!" I'm Asian. I live in an Asian country, and about 20% of our population are Indians. I know the culture. I know it enough to know that culture is not always based on the wisest principles. Many of us, and those who subscribe to the early marriage beliefs too, like to think of marriage as a 'for-life' thing. How much does a person really know of what he/she wants in life at 20? Especially when she's only been with the guy for a year? But like I said, she isn't saying "I want to get married NOW!", so no real cause for concern.
bean1 Posted May 6, 2009 Posted May 6, 2009 I'm Asian. I live in an Asian country, and about 20% of our population are Indians. I know the culture. I know it enough to know that culture is not always based on the wisest principles. Many of us, and those who subscribe to the early marriage beliefs too, like to think of marriage as a 'for-life' thing. How much does a person really know of what he/she wants in life at 20? Especially when she's only been with the guy for a year? But like I said, she isn't saying "I want to get married NOW!", so no real cause for concern. Exactly, she is talking about 2 years in the future, so I don't think it is alarming. I just don't believe that a person has to be at a certain age to know themselves and what they want in life. There are lots of people who never figure it out. Likewise, there are many happy marriages that started in their late teens/early 20's. Sometimes, LS tends to forget some of the more positive realities of relationships.
Els Posted May 6, 2009 Posted May 6, 2009 Yes, that's true. But for the same person, the likelihood of her knowing herself better would be higher at, say, 25 than 20, no? It can only increase with age and experience. Not saying that it's impossible to have a happy marriage at 20 or 22. Just that it might be wiser to wait sometimes. Why the rush after all?
Kamille Posted May 6, 2009 Posted May 6, 2009 I don't think this is anything to worry about. Marriage isn't antithetical to PhDs. If anything, my friends who are married seem to benefit from an economic and emotional stability I wish I had. AND, some friends and professors have reported that it's better to have kids during the PhD then after. (You have more flexibility during the PhD, and many programs allow you to take an (unfunded) maternity year - a perfect time to actually get a little bit ahead in your program.
manugeorge Posted May 6, 2009 Posted May 6, 2009 There are other cultures besides indian where peopled get married at a young age. This is the case in many African countries and there, marriages are not even arranged. People finish undergrad and the next logical step is marriage and kids. There are many places where if you are not married by 26, they start to consider you some sort of a wierdo. And these marriages last well into old age, I guess they don't really believe in divorce either. They certainly take that "for better for worse" vow seriously. If your friend wants to get married at 22, then support her and be happy for her. Her life--her choices, mistakes and triumphs to make, right?
Els Posted May 6, 2009 Posted May 6, 2009 There are other cultures besides indian where peopled get married at a young age. This is the case in many African countries and there, marriages are not even arranged. People finish undergrad and the next logical step is marriage and kids. There are many places where if you are not married by 26, they start to consider you some sort of a wierdo. And these marriages last well into old age, I guess they don't really believe in divorce either. They certainly take that "for better for worse" vow seriously. If your friend wants to get married at 22, then support her and be happy for her. Her life--her choices, mistakes and triumphs to make, right? Again, as one who lives in that culture, I really must point out the difference between 'low divorce rate' and happy marriages. I know many families here whose parents would never, never divorce. Some of them are not happy. My mum has a friend whose husband hits her and did not support her through her cancer therapy. She is still with him for their children. My SO's mother used to throw raging fits at her husband -- he dreads coming home to her and lives only to bring his children up and make them happy. They too would never divorce. All this would never be tolerated by the more modern cultures with higher divorce rates. THAT is why the divorce rates are higher -- because people realize that they cannot make themselves unhappy all their lives because of a vow. Marrying early if one is unsure just because it's 'in their culture' is not a very wise choice IMO. However, of course it is possible that she truly is mature enough to know what she wants, will not change drastically, and will live happily ever after with this man.
Sam Spade Posted May 6, 2009 Posted May 6, 2009 No offense, but your concern - while surely with the best of intentions - is condescending. The US is one of the few, if not the only, countries where endless adolescence is okay. People 30+ years old still "too young" to marry, all that crap. Just because somebody is so young doesn't mean that they don't have their life completely in order, including sufficient psychological maturitye and discipline. Having life experiences has rarely hurt somebody, but much of this ideology is just a disguise/excuse for endless self-gratification . I know, because it got me too .
manugeorge Posted May 6, 2009 Posted May 6, 2009 Again, as one who lives in that culture, I really must point out the difference between 'low divorce rate' and happy marriages. I know many families here whose parents would never, never divorce. Some of them are not happy. My mum has a friend whose husband hits her and did not support her through her cancer therapy. She is still with him for their children. My SO's mother used to throw raging fits at her husband -- he dreads coming home to her and lives only to bring his children up and make them happy. They too would never divorce. All this would never be tolerated by the more modern cultures with higher divorce rates. THAT is why the divorce rates are higher -- because people realize that they cannot make themselves unhappy all their lives because of a vow. Marrying early if one is unsure just because it's 'in their culture' is not a very wise choice IMO. However, of course it is possible that she truly is mature enough to know what she wants, will not change drastically, and will live happily ever after with this man. I grew up in "that" culture too and the same expectations were/are imposed on me so I am speaking from experience. I agree with you that longevity of a marriage is not a measure of its happiness by any means. But on the other hand, "happiness" is relative, it varies by individuals, by households and by cultures. Many people that are not from western societies are raised to endure difficulties in a different way. I have found that they tend to grow up fast too just based on their life experiences so I will say that their maturity rates do tend to differ. What many American marriages consider deal breakers are just a tip of the iceberg for couples in other cultures. I've attended countless weddings where the single most prevalent piece of advice from older generations is "no matter what, hang in there". Meaning, marriage is for life, and it is not an easy journey by any means. But divorce is absolutely out of the question unless in extreme cases. Right or wrong, that is their way of life, their values and beliefs. These are people who ridicule western cultures for their knee-jerk attitude towards divorce. They think westerners are a spoiled over-indulgent population who expect to live life in a perpetual state of happiness and bliss, while to them, life doesn't work that way. It's hard to say which way of life is right. To each his own
Els Posted May 7, 2009 Posted May 7, 2009 I grew up in "that" culture too and the same expectations were/are imposed on me so I am speaking from experience. I agree with you that longevity of a marriage is not a measure of its happiness by any means. But on the other hand, "happiness" is relative, it varies by individuals, by households and by cultures. Many people that are not from western societies are raised to endure difficulties in a different way. I have found that they tend to grow up fast too just based on their life experiences so I will say that their maturity rates do tend to differ. What many American marriages consider deal breakers are just a tip of the iceberg for couples in other cultures. I've attended countless weddings where the single most prevalent piece of advice from older generations is "no matter what, hang in there". Meaning, marriage is for life, and it is not an easy journey by any means. But divorce is absolutely out of the question unless in extreme cases. Right or wrong, that is their way of life, their values and beliefs. These are people who ridicule western cultures for their knee-jerk attitude towards divorce. They think westerners are a spoiled over-indulgent population who expect to live life in a perpetual state of happiness and bliss, while to them, life doesn't work that way. It's hard to say which way of life is right. To each his own Certainly, it's PC's friend's choice to make, hers and only hers. On the flip side, people are so afraid of 'offending other cultures' that whenever anything is considered 'tradition', it's off-limits even for discussion. People think that they must not seem insensitive to traditions, so they err on the side of not even having a productive discussion with the other person on the issue -- much like the death of a parent, or a cancer diagnosis, etc. And because of that, many people grow up thinking that following their own culture and tradition must always be the right way... so they marry the first man they meet, give birth early and pop out lots of children because the parents want them to 'carry on the lineage' and when better to do it than in the most fertile years? Years later they might be unhappy, but tradition dictates that they must never divorce. So they live their lives plodding along out of duty, never experiencing true love, never experiencing all that life has to offer. They might be content, but not happy. I'm NOT saying that this is necessarily true for Papercut's friend. What I'm saying is that if the friend is really close to Papercut, there shouldn't be a problem with talking to her about it. It's hardly 'condescending'. If giving advice were condescending, then we'd all either be lousy friends or condescending.
SoulSearch_CO Posted May 7, 2009 Posted May 7, 2009 Not even sure how to start this post out because this thread has my head swimming big time. You guys think marriage at 22 is too young??? :confused: Holy ****. I'm being totally, straight-up serious. Not sarcastic at all (I know I tend to be most of the time, but I'm seriously not this time). When do most Americans think is an appropriate age to get married??? I grew up in a freaking Mormon bubble. It was VERY normal for people to either get married straight out of high school if the guy was not going on a mission. If he was going on a mission, then he was usually back by 21 and the GF that waited on him was his wife pretty quick after returning. I felt like a freaking spinster getting married at 24. I'm divorced now, and fully agree that marriage at a young age contributes to higher divorce rates (although - ALL of my brother's friends and my brother are still married to their first...and they all married about 21/22). I feel that marriage should wait until the late 20's, early 30's. But I had NO IDEA that so many people felt that early 20's was too early. You guys seriously have ruptured my world and rocked me back. LOL So...anyway...in regards to the friend. Whew. Um. She is looking at it two years in the future. I wouldn't be worried about her. They've been together 1 year, it'll be 3 total by the time they get to the marriage point. I really do think that's adequate time to decide if somebody would make a good life-mate. Getting married is not the death of going to school. She sounds pretty damn motivated. And it really is possible to go to school even with kids. Harder, yes, but maybe it'll just slow her down to the normal rate instead of her current accelerated rate.
JeezLouise Posted May 7, 2009 Posted May 7, 2009 Good gosh. You are concerned about a woman who is 19 and is in the midst of her post-grad degree in physics who has dated a man for 1 year and says that they are thinking of getting married when she is 22. She sounds like she can handle triplets while getting her PhD. What is really going on here? That a close friend of yours can have her head on so straight and have clear priorities and a good plan for meeting those - and you don't - so you want to up-play the minimal negatives so that she can be more like you?
IcemanJB Posted May 7, 2009 Posted May 7, 2009 Two of my closest friends got married at 22 (not to each other haha). My dad was 22 and my mom was 21 when they got married. Hence, he occasionally says things like this to me: "...weird, I was married at your age." haha, thanks dad.
Author xpaperxcutx Posted May 7, 2009 Author Posted May 7, 2009 Good gosh. You are concerned about a woman who is 19 and is in the midst of her post-grad degree in physics who has dated a man for 1 year and says that they are thinking of getting married when she is 22. She sounds like she can handle triplets while getting her PhD. What is really going on here? That a close friend of yours can have her head on so straight and have clear priorities and a good plan for meeting those - and you don't - so you want to up-play the minimal negatives so that she can be more like you? Excuse me? Wow, I really hate your tone. Why is it that a friend can get worried about the best friend's future? I love her to death, and fine if she marries, she marries. But no way in hell would I " up- play" any negativity towards her. She's wonderful, and for you to say that about me is disrespectful, and I will just ignore you from now on.
Author xpaperxcutx Posted May 7, 2009 Author Posted May 7, 2009 Two of my closest friends got married at 22 (not to each other haha). My dad was 22 and my mom was 21 when they got married. Hence, he occasionally says things like this to me: "...weird, I was married at your age." haha, thanks dad. haha your dad is pretty hilarious.
JeezLouise Posted May 7, 2009 Posted May 7, 2009 Sorry that my tone upset you. But you are worried over something that has zero basis. She is obviously more than intelligent and motivated, and she isn't planning a midnight elopement to Vegas tomorrow night. It is a bit condescending for you to "worry about her future", when it looks like her future is trundling along very, very well.
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