sally4sara Posted May 8, 2009 Posted May 8, 2009 sally4sara, that's why through most of this thread, I've avoided responding to you. It's too personal for you and any questions or comments from me, are viewed and responded to, with hostility, but when it suits the points you want to make, you bring up your own experiences. As well as the things I witnessed others experiencing. So I can understand why someone with no experience on a subject would avoid arguing with someone who knows much about the topic being debated. Women are just exploited victims...of themselves. That is the easy opinion of someone with no experience on the subject. It is not hostility I extend to you ON THIS SUBJECT, it is disrespect. I don't know an easy life so I have no respect for that which is easy or the tendency people have for favoring the easy solutions and ignoring problems with no easy solution. I know the easy solutions don't solve real problems. They are only useful for imaginary problems. Like -can't find the proper chintz curtains to match the new formal dining room wall paper- type of problems. Many times I've seen your posts and you come up with good advise from years of experience and gained wisdom. This just isn't one of those times.
Jersey Shortie Posted May 8, 2009 Posted May 8, 2009 Women choose to be in porn. Women and men consume porn. Beyond the minimal number of sex addicts, it's only womens' personal insecurities, thus the need to control what their man thinks, that ruin relationships. Talk about being sexist Trial. You directly told me one reason you didn't respond to me was because I didn't include men in my posts and here you are doing the same. Double sexism for making the statement that it's only women and how they behave taht ruins relationships. Last time I checked men were human too. Women who choose to be involved in porn, do it for skilled wages, for unskilled labour. Why are these women being overpaid? Aren't women exploiting not only the dumb-arse men who do this, as well as exploiting the strip-bar owners and other porn employers? They are being paid highly because it's a soul eating chem-them-up and spit-them-out job. You need more of an incentive for such a high emotional price. The average porn star lasts 6 months to 1 year. and within that time frame she is asked to do more graphic and demeaning things. It starts off with lesbain porn and can exculate to anal or double penetration. Most women emotionally and physically can't last longer the 6 months to a year. They made that choice and that is their responsibility but seriously, lets look at ourselves too. We rather buy into the fantasy the industry creates then the reality of what it i to make ourselves feel better. It's the people that own these places or make the videos that make the real money. So noe, the women aren't exploiting the people paying them. Ridiculous notion actually, especially in understanding basic economics. It's as if you believe that exploitation = sex. That's sad. No one said sex = exploitation. I think what is being said is porn/strip clubs = exploitation. With the below definition of exploitation, if you believe these women are being exploited, you also must believe that every person is being exploited by their respective employers. Definition of exploitation: Unfair treatment or use. The practice of taking selfish or unfair practice of a person or situation, usually for personal gain. Oh no really, this is just silly. Leave the dictionary to define quatam physics but when talking about tangibles and sexuality and male and female relationships, i think we can do a little better then that don't you?
gopher Posted May 8, 2009 Posted May 8, 2009 Have you ever noticed some of the men in strip bars? Not the frat boys or the bachelor parties...but the men sitting by themselves...I've never seen a lonelier or sadder group of guys in my life....Thankfully, I'm past the point in my career where I have to go to these places for business...I just say no and head back to my hotel room and watch tv.
Trialbyfire Posted May 8, 2009 Posted May 8, 2009 As well as the things I witnessed others experiencing. So I can understand why someone with no experience on a subject would avoid arguing with someone who knows much about the topic being debated.I hope you hold Jersey Shortie to the same standards... Do you assume that every single woman in the skin industry agrees with your knowledgeable perspective? We appear to have happy hookers on this board, so what does that mean? We appear to have many women who enjoy pornography on this board, so what does that mean? Since you've openly stated that employment of any kind = exploitation, I can understand your perspective that the skin industry = exploitation, since it's a viable form of employment for unskilled labour, to acquire skilled labour wages. The argument that unskilled labour is entitled to skilled labour wages does defeat me but hey, it takes all kinds of entitlement attitudes to make the world go 'round.
Trialbyfire Posted May 8, 2009 Posted May 8, 2009 Have you ever noticed some of the men in strip bars? Not the frat boys or the bachelor parties...but the men sitting by themselves...I've never seen a lonelier or sadder group of guys in my life....Thankfully, I'm past the point in my career where I have to go to these places for business...I just say no and head back to my hotel room and watch tv.I'm glad you're unwilling to be exploited! The strange part is that I don't support the skin industry. I just don't buy into the propaganda that women are mewling victims when they make the personal decision to work in the skin industry.
a4a Posted May 8, 2009 Posted May 8, 2009 Have you ever noticed some of the men in strip bars? Not the frat boys or the bachelor parties...but the men sitting by themselves...I've never seen a lonelier or sadder group of guys in my life....Thankfully, I'm past the point in my career where I have to go to these places for business...I just say no and head back to my hotel room and watch tv. I done did seen't em! and some of these guys build strange relationships with strippers. Like they are their bf's in some fantasy world. Bring them gifts and just sit and talk with them.
sally4sara Posted May 8, 2009 Posted May 8, 2009 I hope you hold Jersey Shortie to the same standards... Do you assume that every single woman in the skin industry agrees with your knowledgeable perspective? We appear to have happy hookers on this board, so what does that mean? We appear to have many women who enjoy pornography on this board, so what does that mean? Since you've openly stated that employment of any kind = exploitation, I can understand your perspective that the skin industry = exploitation, since it's a viable form of employment for unskilled labour, to acquire skilled labour wages. The argument that unskilled labour is entitled to skilled labour wages does defeat me but hey, it takes all kinds of entitlement attitudes to make the world go 'round. Jersey doesn't seem to share much about where her personal perspective comes from. I just chalk it up to part of her defensive nature. She ever leaves herself open to me in that way then, hell yeah, its on like Michelle Kwan. You have a long history on here and speak with experience about many things. For those topics, I do respect you beyond the normal respect I pay everyone. Believe it or not, I rarely fuss with you because I find myself often agreeing with you. I avoid the infidelity and OW boards for the most part because I don't identify. The ex did cheat, but that was the small stuff I dealt with in my marriage. I usually avoid the porn topic too because I have never had it play a large part in my relationships. Dancers and strip clubs? I have much to share without being completely damning of them. I know there are people who happily work these jobs. It is just much rarer than even the girls who do work these jobs will let on for a matter of pride. I got paid more and treated better through an agency, but the shine even wore off under those conditions pretty quickly. Had you asked me if I enjoyed it in the first 6 months I'd have said yes yes and yes. 6 months after that? Not so much so. I ended up hating it. I've only ever known one prostitute and I didn't know her well. She didn't seem overly happy and wasn't open about how she made her money so......... happy hookers? Who knows; all things are possible I guess. Read a great graphic novel last month called "Mystery Date" by Carla Speed McNeil. The main character was a prostitute who grew up knowing she wanted to be a prostitute. Of course she was from a different world with different attitudes about sex, women, and social class in general. I wish that world was our world. I know this problem isn't just a sex thing or a woman thing. I don't think it only exploits women. Its just one part of a much bigger intertwined problem we haven't found a way to solve yet. But I refuse to pretend the problem doesn't exist.
Enema Posted May 9, 2009 Posted May 9, 2009 I think you guys are arguing over semantics re: the definition of "exploitation". All it means is, "to use to ones advantage". Are women in porn: degraded? sometimes. disprespected? sometimes. dominated? sometimes. exploited? sure. If exploited means simply to use to your advantage. Hell yeah, almost everyone in any profession is exploited. It's not a negative term. Perhaps Jersey would like say what her extraordinary definition of exploited is.
spookie Posted May 9, 2009 Posted May 9, 2009 I look at strippers as performers and if I went to a concert and just started throwing crap at the artist I would be thrown out. Why shouldn't the same standard apply in this case? Those dollar bills add up though.
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