2sure Posted May 5, 2009 Posted May 5, 2009 In another life... *Although MM did not put me through college, he did pay off my student loan. * A different MM, who I never had sex with - once flew us from Tahoe to Vegas in a Helicopter ...where he let me gamble with his money. I had never gambled..when I walked away, I had lost $14,0000 and he never blinked. * I have always had a sports car and have never bought one. * An EX, divorced guy, but older - gave me an AMEX card to use whenever for whatever - for a year. He was out of the country 80% of the time.But I wouldn't marry him. I'm not saying this was right. I have regret. But all of that is over now and sometimes I look back and say WTF - both at myself and them.
Author MeaganRaye Posted May 5, 2009 Author Posted May 5, 2009 Jesus Meagan, how about a relatively normal relationship with a single guy? Is it the fact that there wouldn't be near as much drama or likelihood of being raped and/or murdered? What's with the fascination with being an OW or with "Sugar Daddy" crap? For chissakes girl, grow the hell up. You can go through just as much hell with a single guy as you can with any kind of man. A truly single guy is hard to find, everybody is coupled up or involved in some way with somebody. It's rare that I find a guy who is literally single, and a good catch, usually they are attached to somebody b/c the good ones that I usually am attracted to are never single for long. You pretty much have to steal them from somebody else.
2sure Posted May 5, 2009 Posted May 5, 2009 LOL. "The good ones are already taken" Funny - both men and women say that ... Yet it has not yet occurred to you - that all the good ones are married to each other??
GorillaTheater Posted May 5, 2009 Posted May 5, 2009 You can go through just as much hell with a single guy as you can with any kind of man. A truly single guy is hard to find, everybody is coupled up or involved in some way with somebody. It's rare that I find a guy who is literally single, and a good catch, usually they are attached to somebody b/c the good ones that I usually am attracted to are never single for long. You pretty much have to steal them from somebody else. Even if that's true, for the sake of argument, it seems a bit more preferable to "steal" an unmarried man than a married one. Is it the fact you want to have minimal emotional attachment with the guy? If so, why bother with them at all?
n9688m Posted May 5, 2009 Posted May 5, 2009 well because it's mutual exploitation Jersey Shorty How is alimony any different? Especially if alimony is paid to a walkaway wife who says in retrospect she never loved her husband? Well at least a hooker is smart enough to get paid upfront.
BCCA Posted May 5, 2009 Posted May 5, 2009 How is alimony any different? Especially if alimony is paid to a walkaway wife who says in retrospect she never loved her husband? Well at least a hooker is smart enough to get paid upfront. Not every divorced person who gets allimony is a walkaway husband/wife who never loved the person they married. Some people forgoe college, working, etc for the sake of raising a child with the person they intend to spend their life with, and things hit the rocks when they are in their middle ages. At that point, you would have a really hard time earning enough to even survive, or to go to school. Allimomy isnt as cut and dry as taking money from old guys because they think your hot and want you to sit on their lap.
n9688m Posted May 5, 2009 Posted May 5, 2009 Not every divorced person who gets allimony is a walkaway husband/wife who never loved the person they married. Some people forgoe college, working, etc for the sake of raising a child with the person they intend to spend their life with, and things hit the rocks when they are in their middle ages. At that point, you would have a really hard time earning enough to even survive, or to go to school. How about - for starters - making adultery an absolute bar to receiving alimony? Why should an adultress deserve to continue in the lifestyle "to which she has become accustomed"? She didn't hold up her end of the deal; why should he? Let her go flip burgers for a living and think about her marital misdeeds as she does so. Allimomy isnt as cut and dry as taking money from old guys because they think your hot and want you to sit on their lap. Agreed. The call girl and her client have engaged in a consensual transaction where each understands the deal upfront. That's as straightforward and moral as it comes. The adultress who divorces her husband and then wants alimony is a whole lot lower on my scale of character.
BCCA Posted May 5, 2009 Posted May 5, 2009 How about - for starters - making adultery an absolute bar to receiving alimony? Why should an adultress deserve to continue in the lifestyle "to which she has become accustomed"? She didn't hold up her end of the deal; why should he? Let her go flip burgers for a living and think about her marital misdeeds as she does so. Youre talking about a small fraction of the people getting divorced. Not every woman leaving her husband is a skank who sleeps around, and just wants his money. How about drug addiction, gambling problems, or a slew of other things that should potentially bar someone from getting money? The problem here is that you cant go around treating everyone like a crook. When you get married, you CAN have a pre-nup. Not doing so leaves you exposed to potential problems down the line. Agreed. The call girl and her client have engaged in a consensual transaction where each understands the deal upfront. That's as straightforward and moral as it comes. The adultress who divorces her husband and then wants alimony is a whole lot lower on my scale of character. I find it odd that you describe what a hooker does, and then go on about character. What moral fabric does it show when you objectify yourself to the point where you make a living by owning a vagina and a pair of boobs? It takes no drive, effort, or hard work on your part, you were just born a female. I take it you also see nothing wrong with married men sleeping with prostitutes then?
n9688m Posted May 5, 2009 Posted May 5, 2009 Youre talking about a small fraction of the people getting divorced. Adultery is present in a very large percentage of divorce cases. How about drug addiction, gambling problems, or a slew of other things that should potentially bar someone from getting money? No problem there. In fact I would argue that if a husband beats his wife then the wife should get 100% of the marital assets and a major part of the husband's future earnings - no argument there at all. The problem here is that you cant go around treating everyone like a crook. Nope - just those who break their vows or break the law When you get married, you CAN have a pre-nup. Not doing so leaves you exposed to potential problems down the line. It's not so easy. A pre-nup cannot address child support issues. If the pre-nup eliminates adultery and reduces a woman's share of marital assets, then it is quite possible a judge will compensate by increasing her child support award. What moral fabric does it show when you objectify yourself to the point where you make a living by owning a vagina and a pair of boobs? It takes no drive, effort, or hard work on your part, you were just born a female. It shows she is an entrepreuneur and self-supporting. That's great. I think it takes a bit more than some anatomy to earn a nice living as a call girl - marketing, exercise, diet, busines/scheduling organization, paying attention to a particular client's prefences, empathy listening to a client. There's a world of difference between say a $300/hr callgirl and a streetwalker doing BJs for $20. I take it you also see nothing wrong with married men sleeping with prostitutes then? That's adultery - of course it is wrong for the man to do that if he has pledged monogamy to his wife.
BCCA Posted May 5, 2009 Posted May 5, 2009 Well, for starters, cheating on your spouse is not illegal. Its not really acceptable, and a definite deal breaker in my eyes, but not something you can be arrested for. So they make be breaking their marrige vows, but not the law. Next, the single biggest cause of divorce is 'irreconsilable differences', not adultery. Whether that played a part is anyones guess, but I dont think you can say its the biggest. So, if its not the biggest reason, you cant tailor laws to address smaller issues. In fact I would argue that if a husband beats his wife then the wife should get 100% of the marital assets and a major part of the husband's future earnings - no argument there at all. What about a woman who hits her husband? And I also didnt mention anything about anyone being beat, so Im not sure where this came from. I think it takes a bit more than some anatomy to earn a nice living as a call girl - marketing, exercise, diet, busines/scheduling organization, paying attention to a particular client's prefences, empathy listening to a client. There's a world of difference between say a $300/hr callgirl and a streetwalker doing BJs for $20. I say the only difference is age and drug addiction. Obviously a 40 year old crack whore isnt going to make as much as a 20 year old clean girl. That's adultery - of course it is wrong for the man to do that if he has pledged monogamy to his wife. And I suppose you think most guys seeing prostitutes are single right? Um no. Most of the clients of high end prostitutes are married men. If you take them out of the picture, most of their high paying clients are gone.
n9688m Posted May 5, 2009 Posted May 5, 2009 Well, for starters, cheating on your spouse is not illegal. Its not really acceptable, and a definite deal breaker in my eyes, but not something you can be arrested for. So they make be breaking their marrige vows, but not the law. As I said, breaking either the law or your marriage vows ought to bar alimony. I don't see where we disagree here. What about a woman who hits her husband?Of course the penalties should be the same. And I suppose you think most guys seeing prostitutes are single right? Um no. Most of the clients of high end prostitutes are married men. If you take them out of the picture, most of their high paying clients are gone. We're talking about the ethics of being a prostitute -not the ethics of being a customer. I agree that it is immoral for a married man to visit a prostitute. I simply don't see anything immoral about a single man doing it. And I don't see it as the prostitute's job to determine her customer's marital status.
BCCA Posted May 5, 2009 Posted May 5, 2009 As I said, breaking either the law or your marriage vows ought to bar alimony. I don't see where we disagree here. You may have misunderstood, sorry if I wasnt clear. I do not agree here. I dont think you can make rules like this. You should not alter laws because of a few people. Pre-nups are an option, and you should be careful who you marry. Sorry, but I dont believe that people wake up one day and turn into a monster. They probably gave plenty of signs of who they were in the time leading up to your marrige, if you disregard them, its your fault. We're talking about the ethics of being a prostitute -not the ethics of being a customer. I agree that it is immoral for a married man to visit a prostitute. I simply don't see anything immoral about a single man doing it. And I don't see it as the prostitute's job to determine her customer's marital status. Well, for starters, its illegal. At least here in California. And my point is that MOST clients of prostitutes are married men. If you condemn the men, then why give a pass to the women they're visiting? Its like saying drug dealers are fine, but the users are crooks.
n9688m Posted May 5, 2009 Posted May 5, 2009 You should not alter laws because of a few people. What's wrong with saying that someone who commits adultery will not get alimony? Seems pretty simple to me - no matter how few or how many people would be affected. Pre-nups are an option Pre-nups cannot address child support so that is a very lucrative back door to get around a pre-nup and you should be careful who you marry Of course - but given a divorce rate of 50% or so that's clearly a lot harder than it seems They probably gave plenty of signs of who they were in the time leading up to your marrige, if you disregard them, its your fault. See above - that may not be true. And my point is that MOST clients of prostitutes are married men. If you condemn the men, then why give a pass to the women they're visiting? Its like saying drug dealers are fine, but the users are crooks. So is speeding illegal. And that's enforced more rigorously than behind-doors prostitution by a call girl. I don't look down morally upon people who get speeding tickets - neither do I look down upon a woman who is a successful entrepreneur practicing the oldest profession.
BCCA Posted May 5, 2009 Posted May 5, 2009 My point is that you should not add laws that deal with adultery when the act itself is not illegal. What about watching too much tv, or generally being a jerk? There are tons of things you could say, the problem is that the REASON for the split should not impact the allimony. Pre-nups cannot address child support so that is a very lucrative back door to get around a pre-nup Never heard that. I would be interested to see some numbers or something if you have a link or some proof. I'm sure it happens, but child support is supposed to be at the judges discretion. Whether he thinks that adultery or children = more money is his decision, and should not be abused. The fact that it is being abused is more the problem. See above - that may not be true. I dont buy it. People dont really change a whole lot, they usually are who they are. Cheaters usually always cheat, and liars usually always lie. Its YOUR responsibility to make sure the person you marry is the kind of person you want to spend your life with. If theyre just a pretty face, then youre shooting yourself in the foot. Take responsibility. Speeding and prostitution are the same? Seriously? By your logic, guys who are selling drugs are just trying to earn a decent living right?
burning 4 revenge Posted May 5, 2009 Posted May 5, 2009 If you're rich, whats holding you back from dating if youre lonely? And if youre rich arent there a lot of fun things to do anyways? I dont get it Its like buying a very expensive lap dance And they always suck
Sam Spade Posted May 5, 2009 Posted May 5, 2009 Actually, I can envision such a relationship without any prospect of sex. The term 'sugardaddy' profanises and disguises wide variety of possible scenarios, one of them being a purely mentorship relationship. A classy older dude showing the ropes of whatever the field in question and life in general to motivated, bright girl. (Moreover, the genders can be reversed.) Sure, sex does not *have* to be completely off the table, but in the classy scenario it would be completely the girl's initiative, rather than expected/assumed based on the delivery of money and gifts - people sleep with people they look up to all the time.
n9688m Posted May 6, 2009 Posted May 6, 2009 Its YOUR responsibility to make sure the person you marry is the kind of person you want to spend your life with. If theyre just a pretty face, then youre shooting yourself in the foot. Take responsibility. I am going to guess from that statement that you are quite young - surely under 30 and probably under 25. I would suggest you reconsider that statement in another 10 years or so.
BCCA Posted May 6, 2009 Posted May 6, 2009 I am going to guess from that statement that you are quite young - surely under 30 and probably under 25. I would suggest you reconsider that statement in another 10 years or so. I'm barely under 30, and just got out of a 5 year relationship. I take responsibility for the fact that I tried to make it work with the wrong person. If you really believe that people will trick you, and only show thier true colors after cheating and leaving you, I suggest you start identifying red flags earlier. Is it really not your fault that you married the person? I guess personal responsibility is dead; its always someone else's fault.
n9688m Posted May 6, 2009 Posted May 6, 2009 Is it really not your fault that you married the person? I guess personal responsibility is dead; its always someone else's fault. When women are physically abused by their husbands or significant others, is that the women's fault? As I said - I suggest you reconsider your thoughts in 10 years or so. Perhaps you will have some more perspective then. Thanks for the discussion.
BCCA Posted May 6, 2009 Posted May 6, 2009 When women are physically abused by their husbands or significant others, is that the women's fault? As I said - I suggest you reconsider your thoughts in 10 years or so. Perhaps you will have some more perspective then. Thanks for the discussion. Why would you allow someone to abuse you? It would happen to me ONCE, and I would be on the phone with the cops so fast. A lot of women never report these creeps or make excuses for them. Who's fault is that? You seem very bitter, and as though everyone out there is a terrible person. Seriously, you went on forever about cheating women that just steal their ex's money, and now we're on to abuse. I'm sorry, but most people arent terrible individuals, and if my 'perspective' ever gets that jaded, whats the point of life, right?
n9688m Posted May 6, 2009 Posted May 6, 2009 Why would you allow someone to abuse you? It would happen to me ONCE, and I would be on the phone with the cops so fast. A lot of women never report these creeps or make excuses for them. Who's fault is that? I suspect if you spent some time in a women's shelter or emergency room you might come away with a much more nuanced perception of the situation. You seem very bitter, and as though everyone out there is a terrible person. No I did not say that - you are assigning extremes and generalities to my statements which are in fact more nuanced. if my 'perspective' ever gets that jaded, whats the point of life, right? I'd bet money you will have a less black/white perspective once you get some life experience. Thanks for the discussion.
BCCA Posted May 6, 2009 Posted May 6, 2009 If 'wait 10 years' is your standard answer to everything, I'll take that as a cop out. Still waiting for your approval for drug dealers. I mean, its not THEIR fault if people want to use drugs, right?
MN randomguy Posted May 6, 2009 Posted May 6, 2009 I dated an older man that offered to pay for my college education. I didn't take it but I won't pretend the option wasn't attractive. Honestly, I think people are being harsh here. No one condemns a man for enjoying a hot woman's sexy body. Why should we condemn women for enjoying a man's hot money? What is all of this crap earlier about men being bad people for wanting to date younger women. Sounds like you didn't have a problem with it then. It seems that whatever does not benefit you in the season of life that you are in is inherently bad.
MN randomguy Posted May 6, 2009 Posted May 6, 2009 I'd bet money you will have a less black/white perspective once you get some life experience. Thanks for the discussion. You gotta lay off the life experience thing. You being 10 years older than someone does not mean that you are right all of the time. 30 isn't old enough for "life experience" When I was 20 all of the wankers that talked about life experience were 30. Now I'm 30 and windbags age 40 are still talking about life experience. Its hard to have a discussion without valid arguments.
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