Reggie Posted May 4, 2009 Posted May 4, 2009 Just be thankful you are out and doing so well financially. Frankly, trying to figure out what went into one particular OW's decison making process seems impossible. You will just be guessing. Why not ask her?
LucreziaBorgia Posted May 4, 2009 Posted May 4, 2009 I'm posting on a board trying to understand the OW's point of view- a woman that if she visited my home, she would avoid walking on the daisies 'cause it's the polite thing to do, but had no trouble walking over my marriage and my kid's relationship with their father. This is going to sound bad, really bad - but in my times as OW I would have to say that it wasn't so much 'not having trouble walking over a marriage and kids' so much as it was complete indifference to it. In at least one of those cases, it was merely the inconvenient thing keeping me from getting what I wanted. I didn't care about the marriage (in this particular case it was a man engaged to a woman with kids). The impending marriage wasn't part of my relationship with him, so it simply didn't factor in. It is hard to see the sanctity of something, or respect something like marriage when it is nothing more to you than something standing in your way. It is not easy to say stuff like this and particularly not easy to say it to someone who is in a BS position - but if you really want to know, there generally is rarely, if ever guilt. At least in my case. I never felt guilty in any of my times as OW. The wife/fiance/girlfriend/kids/whatever - I just felt indifferent. I guess in my case, it was easy to be indifferent - with that one exception above, I didn't want MM/BF/F for myself.
Author Intricategirl Posted May 4, 2009 Author Posted May 4, 2009 This is going to sound bad, really bad - but in my times as OW I would have to say that it wasn't so much 'not having trouble walking over a marriage and kids' so much as it was complete indifference to it. In at least one of those cases, it was merely the inconvenient thing keeping me from getting what I wanted. I didn't care about the marriage (in this particular case it was a man engaged to a woman with kids). The impending marriage wasn't part of my relationship with him, so it simply didn't factor in. It is hard to see the sanctity of something, or respect something like marriage when it is nothing more to you than something standing in your way. It is not easy to say stuff like this and particularly not easy to say it to someone who is in a BS position - but if you really want to know, there generally is rarely, if ever guilt. At least in my case. I never felt guilty in any of my times as OW. The wife/fiance/girlfriend/kids/whatever - I just felt indifferent. I guess in my case, it was easy to be indifferent - with that one exception above, I didn't want MM/BF/F for myself. Okay, but if it's not easy to say stuff like this, and especially not to a BS, how is that not its own form of guilt?? One of those, "Ehhh, I might hurt her feelings by saying this, but I'm going to say it anyway." It's not indifference, although it might be a close cousin. And I figured it was indifference and nothing more. She read, "Married but unhappy" thought "Hey, I kind of dig him and he's probably leaving anyway" and then started making plans with him. Some of the stuff he's said leads me to believe she possibly did feel guilty about it (like I should start believing him now!), but in the end, it really doesn't matter. Walked on is walked on, whether done intentionally or indifferently. And to be perfectly honest, this is a big reason I ventured over here. Wronged spouses and indifferent mistresses have a lot more in common than people think, IMO. Both tend to be tough-@ss women who put up with way too much from men who can't decide exactly what they want. I've seen a few posts here talking about how you can't provide that safety net for them to come back, because they'll just use you for the sex. Same thing from my side, but instead of the sex, it's someone to take care of his house and kids. lol I've seen posts over here talking about how the married men and BS have all the power and you're stuck with the leftovers. My side feels the SAME way. lol I've seen posts talking about how he'll never leave his wife and kids and really be in the relationship with you. My side knows he'll never really leave you and be with his wife and kids. And assuming I'm not completely off-base, we all put up with way too much crap.
LucreziaBorgia Posted May 4, 2009 Posted May 4, 2009 I wouldn't call it guilt so much as remorse. I haven't done the OW thing or the cheating thing in a long time now. I don't mind giving my perspective from when I was doing that though. Sometimes it is painful to see if from the other side, but ultimately helpful. As for it being hard to say - since I've been out of that game for a while, I can look back and recognize what I did, and understand that it does hurt others. Even offering a perspective like mine can hurt others. I don't do it to hurt, so much as to expose what it can be like from either side.
Author Intricategirl Posted May 4, 2009 Author Posted May 4, 2009 I don't do it to hurt, so much as to expose what it can be like from either side. And that's precisely what I asked for, so I really do appreciate it. Cheers.
jwi71 Posted May 4, 2009 Posted May 4, 2009 JWI, maybe you're onto something. I suppose it depends on what you mean by "care". Every single reason he left has been sorted out since he left. And not because I'm trying to get him back, but just because it's what had to be done. And the parts of my self-worth that got smashed when he left for such weak reasons got built back up when I started making plans for my own life. My friends have told me I seem much stronger, much happier, and much more sure of myself since he's been gone. Still, does it hurt to be tossed aside so flippantly? Sure. Of course. So care??? Not about him. But maybe yeah, I'd like him to realize he's a loser. lol OP... a few Q's for you... You have stated why you haven't filed, but why hasn't he? I see what you get out of it but not your H. In fact, the more he waits the more he pays...its NOT in his interest to wait. So why has he NOT filed? And by staying married, you leave the door open. There's no finality to it...yes, I know...you do it for the money and/or convenience. I wonder what happens when your H comes out of the fog... And its ok to still care. I didn't say love...I said care. (and we all know what happens when we nurture caring for someone...) Now for why he left. Ask him. Ask the OW. Why NOT ask them? Maybe I'm on Mars...or is it Venus?...but I get a different vibe...
2sure Posted May 4, 2009 Posted May 4, 2009 It sounds like although the OW was the initial motivating factor for him to make the move and leave.... It now seems as if he is simply happy to be free of the marriage - at any cost. He has no plans for him and OW to move forward, still wants to be the good guy to both, had a vasectomy yet wants more kids.... When he and OW entered into the A - part of the appeal of that was she sees only the parts of him he wanted her to see. He was able to say all the right words, give any impression he wanted to her...because reality was not a big factor. Because the A is long distance, reality still hasn't really touched it. She may be hanging on because she still believes all of things he impressed upon her which led to the A to begin with. For example - She may be financially struggling and he gave her the impression he is wealthy enough to support 2 families.
Author Intricategirl Posted May 4, 2009 Author Posted May 4, 2009 JWI, I don't ask her mainly because I have no way to really contact her. And no. There is no door open. It may appear that way, but I would never take him back. If he believes I would, he's absolutely delusional. But you are right. I do still care. That's become pretty obvious. He canceled plans with his kids this weekend to spend time with her. It's not the first time he's done it, and he's already making plans to shift another of his weekends so the kids stay with his mom. I'm making it very clear that I'm keeping detailed dates of every time he bails on his visitation. If he wants to see her, plan it for when I have the kids. And he knows this is a button he can push. What he doesn't know is how hard I'll push back. So yes, I care. I hate him, but that's an emotion that only he seems to be able to get out of me. 2Sure, he's not the only one that's glad to be done. Regardless, I sent him an email and asked him to ask her what she sees in him. I told him exactly what I said here, and dared him to ask her. I also told him I doubted he would because I don't think he'd like the answers he got, or the self-reflection. We'll see if he has the guts to respond, or whether he asks her.
jj33 Posted May 4, 2009 Posted May 4, 2009 Intricate I hope you dont get a response to that email. It is likely to either hurt you or cause you to want to engage more with him. Hes has hurt you terribly but hes gone and no amount of suggesting that he is a worthless POS who doesnt deserve anyone's love is going to change that. You say you dont want him back but if you didnt on some level, you wouldnt be emailing him.
Author Intricategirl Posted May 4, 2009 Author Posted May 4, 2009 Intricate I hope you dont get a response to that email. It is likely to either hurt you or cause you to want to engage more with him. Hes has hurt you terribly but hes gone and no amount of suggesting that he is a worthless POS who doesnt deserve anyone's love is going to change that. You say you dont want him back but if you didnt on some level, you wouldnt be emailing him. Dead wrong. I do not want him back. I'm emailing him because I'm at the stage where I want to crush him. It's not nice, but I don't have to be.
jj33 Posted May 4, 2009 Posted May 4, 2009 Sending him emails isnt going to crush him. He has moved on. Its only going to signal to him that you are still hurting. It may make him feel guilty but it wont crush him.
pkn06002 Posted May 4, 2009 Posted May 4, 2009 Dead wrong. I do not want him back. I'm emailing him because I'm at the stage where I want to crush him. It's not nice, but I don't have to be. Look been where you are at the anger does help move on. But thinking it will do anything by sending an e-mail or letter, it doesn't. Your just hurting and want to lash out, which is understandable. Just take in that anger and let it motivate you to move one. Let that anger color all those "wonderful thoughts" you have.
Author Intricategirl Posted May 4, 2009 Author Posted May 4, 2009 Look been where you are at the anger does help move on. But thinking it will do anything by sending an e-mail or letter, it doesn't. Your just hurting and want to lash out, which is understandable. Just take in that anger and let it motivate you to move one. Let that anger color all those "wonderful thoughts" you have. I understand, but I will not internalize my anger towards him. Whether he is crushed by it is not the point. The point is that I say it. For me. I'm not holding any hope that he'll actually listen. But I'm not about to shield him from what I think just because it might hurt his feelings or because it won't change anything.
pkn06002 Posted May 4, 2009 Posted May 4, 2009 I understand, but I will not internalize my anger towards him. Whether he is crushed by it is not the point. The point is that I say it. For me. I'm not holding any hope that he'll actually listen. But I'm not about to shield him from what I think just because it might hurt his feelings or because it won't change anything. I did what you are wanting to do, difference is I sent an actual letter. Actually one of the first sentences was that this is something I have to do for me to move on. Did take me like 2 weeks to write/rewrite the letter. You have to realize though that you can't expect a response. Internalizing the anger does help, because it takes that shine off of the other person.
Author Intricategirl Posted May 4, 2009 Author Posted May 4, 2009 I did what you are wanting to do, difference is I sent an actual letter. Actually one of the first sentences was that this is something I have to do for me to move on. Did take me like 2 weeks to write/rewrite the letter. You have to realize though that you can't expect a response. Internalizing the anger does help, because it takes that shine off of the other person. Internalizing it has never done a thing for me. And trust me, he's already lost the shine. And no. I don't expect a response. I don't expect he'll read it all the way through. If he opens it at all. Just because I want to crucify him doesn't mean I expect him to climb up on the cross and hand me the hammer.
pkn06002 Posted May 4, 2009 Posted May 4, 2009 Internalizing it has never done a thing for me. And trust me, he's already lost the shine. And no. I don't expect a response. I don't expect he'll read it all the way through. If he opens it at all. Just because I want to crucify him doesn't mean I expect him to climb up on the cross and hand me the hammer. I want to add this takes days (if not a week or more) to write the letter. Maybe when you are done writing it you may not want to send it. Then send the e-mail and close the e-mail account.
fooled once Posted May 5, 2009 Posted May 5, 2009 I actually really liked this that one person said t is hard to see the sanctity of something, or respect something like marriage when it is nothing more to you than something standing in your way. Very honest and I appreciated reading it. As for your EX bailing on the kids --- man, I know that well. My loser ex use to cancel with our son all the time -- for stupid reasons -- had to clean his car, had to clean his house, hunting, didn't feel like it, new girlfriend What these stupid men don't realize is they are showing their children how important they are to them. Keep documenting it. And I am sorry he is doing that to the kids. They don't deserve it and it just shows his character. I watched my son hurt for years and today, my son is 20 years old and has little to do with his father. He knows he can't count on him. Good luck to you!
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