Intricategirl Posted May 3, 2009 Posted May 3, 2009 I'm a BS whose husband recently left me for another woman. If you read around the boards, I've made my peace with that, and while I don't necessarily wish them well, I don't want him back. I get the reasons he cheated. What I'm trying to understand is her motivation. From what I understand, he posted on a message board related to a particular (and very unusual) kink back in December that he was married but unhappy. She responded, they started making plans to meet, and eventually he left me. I've seen this girl's website, and just knowing my ex, they have very little in common. They share a lot of the same superficial things in common (like the same kind of music, etc), but some of their deeper core values are completely at odds. When we split, my husband and I agreed that it was probably in our best interest financially to stay married because he gets tax benefits and I had health insurance. But now that I'm working, I will have my own health insurance and don't particularly care whether he gets tax benefits or not (as long as I continue to get my alimony and child support). A few days ago, I asked him to make the divorce legal, because I want to be completely free of him. He ran some numbers and found that there's no way he could pay me that much in alimony if we divorced. I am disappointed, but understand. Furthermore, she lives several states away and he doesn't have many opportunities to see her. He has said that she eventually wants children, however he got a vasectomy several years ago because he wanted it (not a decision I pushed on him). He knows that because of the circumstances, she is not welcome to celebrate "family" events, such as our children's birthdays and agrees it would be inappropriate. And when I bring up that I expect she will move here soon just to be close to him, he cringes and says, "You're really loving this, aren't you?" But it's not like he's ever told me that she wants to move here, and kind of confirms that they have already had the discussion a few times and he's made it clear he has no intention of moving in with her. So, I guess what I'm trying to understand is what in the world this woman sees in him? While I'm not so generous as to welcome her into my life and my kid's life (and feel I shouldn't have to), what makes her think that he's a catch? Their first interaction begins with "I'm married and unhappy", she wants kids and knows he doesn't, she wants to move here and he doesn't want her to, and most of all, I'm offering him a divorce and he's turning it down. I'm not asking to start a flame war- that's not my style. But doesn't this seem a little desperate, even apart from my feelings on the matter? I get my feelings and I get his feelings. But hers are completely puzzling to me, and I'm trying to understand why anyone would actively seek a relationship like this. It's not an attempt to demonize her, but actually the opposite. I am curious why a person would act that way.
desertmoon Posted May 3, 2009 Posted May 3, 2009 So, I guess what I'm trying to understand is what in the world this woman sees in him? What did you see in him before everything went sour? might be the same things she's "seeing".
Author Intricategirl Posted May 3, 2009 Author Posted May 3, 2009 And I considered that already, because you don't really ask for who you fall in love with. But what I'm getting at is this- isn't it just a little naive that she's not looking at the potential problems as well as benefits? I mean, when I'm looking at potential dating partners, I think, "Hmmm, kinda clingy... drinks too much... still hung up on someone else..." I'm not saying that the cons can't be overcome, because there wouldn't be a relationship anywhere on the planet if they couldn't. But isn't the fact that I've offered up a divorce that he doesn't want, that he won't move there and doesn't want her here, and that he's okay with relegating her to a role where she'll never be fully involved in his life a little bit bigger of a red flag than most?? Literally, the numbers he gave me, it will probably be at least 6-7 years before he begins the divorce, and about a 1.5 year legal process after that. I don't want to wait that long, but he's fine with it!
wildsoul Posted May 3, 2009 Posted May 3, 2009 Let's say we could actually answer this. Totally impossible, but lets say we could answer it. What are you hoping the answer is going to do for you? Do you want to hear it's because she's an idiot? (which is what it sounds like you want to hear.) Do you want to hear that it's because he's telling her that he wants to spend the rest of his life with her (often the case!) and that he's either downplaying it to you or lying to her? Do you want to hear that she doesn't want a fulltime committed relationship and that she deliberately chose someone whose circumstances prevent one? Those are the 3 most common scenarios here. But I don't really see why the answer really matters one way or the other, except that you're still hurt and obsessing.
whichwayisup Posted May 3, 2009 Posted May 3, 2009 She probably is still in the affair fog and hasn't thought the 'future' out. It's all roses right now - She has it in her head that your ex is the best...Obviously you know he isn't and someday she'll be disappointed. Seems already he isnt' singing the same tune towards her and probably will end up breaking off with her eventually. For obvious reasons. But, for the kids sake, IF she is moving, and they don't break up, then deal with this then. Until the move happens, don't stress out about it. Focus on your own healing, and help your kids through the D.
desertmoon Posted May 3, 2009 Posted May 3, 2009 And I considered that already, because you don't really ask for who you fall in love with. But what I'm getting at is this- isn't it just a little naive that she's not looking at the potential problems as well as benefits? I mean, when I'm looking at potential dating partners, I think, "Hmmm, kinda clingy... drinks too much... still hung up on someone else..." I'm not saying that the cons can't be overcome, because there wouldn't be a relationship anywhere on the planet if they couldn't. But isn't the fact that I've offered up a divorce that he doesn't want, that he won't move there and doesn't want her here, and that he's okay with relegating her to a role where she'll never be fully involved in his life a little bit bigger of a red flag than most?? I think the OW is in what they call "in fog"...she only wants to see what she wants to see. Most affairs are not based on logic and practicality. At any rate I read what you wrote about our H in another thread...I wonder why you even stayed with this man? He is gay, maybe not, but maybe bisexual..and you said it yourself..he has a lot of problems. I have a feeling that somewhere you are relieved that he cheated on you-now you can ask for a divorce and you do not even have to factor in your reasons, you only have to say "he cheated"-when perhaps the reality is you have been very unhappy with this man and find him weak, clingy and too much of an emotional burden. If I were you, I wouldnt care what the OW found so attractive in your husband---she will find it soon enough that he is not that good of a catch. In the meantime, can you afford to live comfortably on your own without your husband's help? Divorce him. Unless you want to prolong carrying his emotional problems.
Author Intricategirl Posted May 3, 2009 Author Posted May 3, 2009 Let's say we could actually answer this. Totally impossible, but lets say we could answer it. What are you hoping the answer is going to do for you? Do you want to hear it's because she's an idiot? (which is what it sounds like you want to hear.) Do you want to hear that it's because he's telling her that he wants to spend the rest of his life with her (often the case!) and that he's either downplaying it to you or lying to her? Do you want to hear that she doesn't want a fulltime committed relationship and that she deliberately chose someone whose circumstances prevent one? Those are the 3 most common scenarios here. But I don't really see why the answer really matters one way or the other, except that you're still hurt and obsessing. Sure, it's an impossible question to answer without the actual woman in question doing the answering. And I don't think I'm looking for MY answers so much as SOME answers. Question 1: Not exactly. 'Cause then my ex left me for an idiot. lol Question 2: He very well might be telling her they'll be together forever. They've at least had a conversation (no matter how those conversations went) about who will move where and children. Question 3: It's not necessarily that I want to hear that... but if that's the explanation, it makes a lot more sense. And I'll be the first one to admit that the answer really doesn't matter. I'm looking for clues and insight because I'm curious what would make someone settle (which she is, IMO). I know my own reasons for settling and staying with him as long as I did, and I know my reasons I wouldn't go back with him. But my reasons are different than hers would be, just because of the circumstances. As I start to date again, I suppose I'm curious why someone would desire that sort of relationship. Maybe if I can understand those reasons, I can avoid it in my own future ones. But you might be right. I don't feel hurt, and I don't think about him or her that much, but I'll admit that there's the possibility that I am hurt and obsessing. Certainly worth considering.
Author Intricategirl Posted May 3, 2009 Author Posted May 3, 2009 I think the OW is in what they call "in fog"...she only wants to see what she wants to see. Most affairs are not based on logic and practicality. At any rate I read what you wrote about our H in another thread...I wonder why you even stayed with this man? He is gay, maybe not, but maybe bisexual..and you said it yourself..he has a lot of problems. I have a feeling that somewhere you are relieved that he cheated on you-now you can ask for a divorce and you do not even have to factor in your reasons, you only have to say "he cheated"-when perhaps the reality is you have been very unhappy with this man and find him weak, clingy and too much of an emotional burden. If I were you, I wouldnt care what the OW found so attractive in your husband---she will find it soon enough that he is not that good of a catch. In the meantime, can you afford to live comfortably on your own without your husband's help? Divorce him. Unless you want to prolong carrying his emotional problems. Yep. I am sort of relieved that he left. It made it pretty easy to realize how unhappy I was and how weak I felt with him. There ya go- my own type of "fog". lol Yeah, I suppose you're right. Since when has love ever made sense? If she sees something I missed, then I really have no reason to pout about it. As far as making it financially... I can. The problem is, he doesn't believe it. Despite having a signed contract detailing exactly how much alimony and child support I will get, it would leave him with about $300 a month if we legally divorced. No, I don't owe him anything, but I do have kids and he does have visitation. I don't want them walking into daddy's apartment and wondering why there's no food to eat, and why he can't afford furniture, and knowing that I'm doing pretty good. So, it's letting him save face sort of. And apart from that, I don't care about the legal status. I've got no problem dating and already consider myself divorced. I just have to make it legal someday. lol
MWC_LifeBeginsAt40 Posted May 3, 2009 Posted May 3, 2009 Just remember that she is his girlfriend, not his new wife. Their expectations in the relationship may be completely different than what you think. If they do ever get married, I don't see why he couldn't bring her to family events involving his kids. Why be vindictive at this point? You have every right to go find yourself someone worthy of your love who loves you in return, and I don't think you'd be very happy if your ex banned him from your kids events. The circumstances that led to it really make no difference at that point.
LucreziaBorgia Posted May 3, 2009 Posted May 3, 2009 He ran some numbers and found that there's no way he could pay me that much in alimony if we divorced. Just alimony? I'd be going for that AND child support. If OW wants him, OW can help pay for the privilege of having him to herself now. It would be far better for your kids seeing their Dad paying the price for his mistakes, then seeing you pay for his by staying married. In the long run, kids need to know that marriage is not a trap, and that if you mess up like their Dad did, then there are consequences. And I'm saying that as a former multiple-time, stretching over the course of decades OW.
Author Intricategirl Posted May 3, 2009 Author Posted May 3, 2009 MWC, not much to say except that I disagree. Circumstances do matter. And my new relationship would have been started after the end of the marriage. Besides, she's not their mother and if she wants to have a separate party so she can celebrate with them- feel free. Anything else is purposefully rubbing my nose in it. You use the word "vindictive" to describe my actions in this scenario, but it's okay for her to act that way? Sorry, no. Maybe in a few years, if they do marry, I'll feel differently. But right now, I disagree. Besides, and possibly more importantly, my ex was pretty anxious to agree she has no place at such events. Regardless of how she feels about it, he doesn't want her there, especially as of this moment. Ouch.
whichwayisup Posted May 3, 2009 Posted May 3, 2009 I don't see why he couldn't bring her to family events involving his kids. Not for a long time. You can't rush kids into this and make them accept daddy's new girlfriend. IF this OW is going to be in the picture, then arrangements can be made..But, until that actually happens, her ex and this OW shouldn't be rushing into another marriage or moving in together. I hope your ex knows HE needs abit of time to sort himself before hopping out of the marriage and smack into another relationship.
jwi71 Posted May 3, 2009 Posted May 3, 2009 I read your post. Twice actually. I happen to think you still care. I also happen to think you are trying to gain some "self-worth" by understanding the OW. It sucks when your spouse leaves for virtually no reason (its far better to have been dumped for "love"). Does a real number on the self-worth. So...if you truly don't care and are genuinely curious...ask the OW what she sees in him.
GreenEyedLady Posted May 3, 2009 Posted May 3, 2009 Honestly, I don't see why you care... I'd be asking myself why I'm letting him call the shots in getting a divorce...
Author Intricategirl Posted May 3, 2009 Author Posted May 3, 2009 Just alimony? I'd be going for that AND child support. If OW wants him, OW can help pay for the privilege of having him to herself now. It would be far better for your kids seeing their Dad paying the price for his mistakes, then seeing you pay for his by staying married. In the long run, kids need to know that marriage is not a trap, and that if you mess up like their Dad did, then there are consequences. And I'm saying that as a former multiple-time, stretching over the course of decades OW. I'm getting child support and alimony. You're not legally allowed to turn down child support, because it's seen as money that's owed to the kids, not you. So I didn't even mention it. They see him paying for his mistakes. Just in different ways.
White Flower Posted May 3, 2009 Posted May 3, 2009 Just alimony? I'd be going for that AND child support. If OW wants him, OW can help pay for the privilege of having him to herself now. It would be far better for your kids seeing their Dad paying the price for his mistakes, then seeing you pay for his by staying married. In the long run, kids need to know that marriage is not a trap, and that if you mess up like their Dad did, then there are consequences. And I'm saying that as a former multiple-time, stretching over the course of decades OW. Too cute LB! IG, I think the OW is seeing him for his potential and not for who he really is. In fact, most women marry under the same circumstances only to end up very unhappy later. The fact that he messed up could be your trump card. I think you should set your standards and let everyone else follow suit. Don't be trapped with someone you can't even stand anymore. JMHO.
Author Intricategirl Posted May 3, 2009 Author Posted May 3, 2009 JWI, maybe you're onto something. I suppose it depends on what you mean by "care". Every single reason he left has been sorted out since he left. And not because I'm trying to get him back, but just because it's what had to be done. And the parts of my self-worth that got smashed when he left for such weak reasons got built back up when I started making plans for my own life. My friends have told me I seem much stronger, much happier, and much more sure of myself since he's been gone. Still, does it hurt to be tossed aside so flippantly? Sure. Of course. So care??? Not about him. But maybe yeah, I'd like him to realize he's a loser. lol GEL, mainly because I've got nowhere else I have to be right now. I'm not dating and have no intention of serious dating for at least 5-6 years while I sort out my career. And if I happen to fall for someone during that time, then my ex won't have any say in it. In the meantime, if it keeps me from hearing him whine about not having enough money to pay me, it's worth it.
Author Intricategirl Posted May 3, 2009 Author Posted May 3, 2009 Too cute LB! IG, I think the OW is seeing him for his potential and not for who he really is. In fact, most women marry under the same circumstances only to end up very unhappy later. The fact that he messed up could be your trump card. I think you should set your standards and let everyone else follow suit. Don't be trapped with someone you can't even stand anymore. JMHO. Good advice, and I suppose there's my answer. You're right. It's the reason most people get together, so why should she be any different? And I don't want the trump card. Trump what? I'm not jumping into any new relationship, I'm trying to sort out my feelings on the matter, and I'm excited about all the new opportunities I've got in front of me. Really, I've had a lot of stuff that I've planned to do for years, and this was just the push I needed. I don't have anything to trump, 'cause it's all going pretty well. Thanks everyone. I worried that I'd get a lot of hate, coming over here and asking about viewpoints from the OW. I'm just trying to figure it all out, same as anyone else.
fooled once Posted May 4, 2009 Posted May 4, 2009 You do NOT sound like you still care for HIM -- anyone who thinks you do is laughable. I think you sound incredibly fair considering how sh*tty he has treated you. He cheated. He is a liar, he is untrustworthy, he is immoral and he is a pig. Why don't you file for divorce? I would. And I would without a doubt go for alimony and c/s. C/S isn't even negotiable as you stated because fathers SHOULD financially support their children. I would divorce his butt and get every single dime I could from him. In doing so, it doesn't mean you care about him or love him it means you are getting what you rightfully are entitled to. But I sure wouldn't wait on HIS timetable. I would want to be free of him legally. You two will always be tied because of the kids, unfortunately. And you do NOT have to include his little chippy in any family events. He can have his own "family events" with her. No BS should ever HAVE to include the OW in events. Hell no. That is laughable. And more than likely, in a year, they won't be together any way. I too have always wondered what my ex's new wife sees in him. Does she see the drunk abusive loser I divorced? Does she see what a pathetic father he is (especially since they have no children)? Then again, my DH's ex probably wonders what I see in her ex (my husband). We all see different things in different people. Doesn't mean we still care. Means we are normally curious. But I would divorce him and not wait for him to file. You do it.
Author Intricategirl Posted May 4, 2009 Author Posted May 4, 2009 It's not solely his timetable. Trust me, I took care of myself very well in the alimony arrangement, and he left everything except his clothing and gifts that were given specifically to him behind. I also got our commercial property, which brings in income. And I have some alimony coming to me for 13 years, unless I remarry or live with someone else over 18 months (which most lawyers would even not have the guts to go for). And more than that even. In short, I got everything that's worth anything. Trust me, I'm good. But the one area where it may prove to be tricky is by tying it to a percentage of his income (with a clause about him not having any reason to not make that much or more per year). The reason I did it that way is because he's due a big fat raise soon, and a bigger, fatter bonus. And in about five years time, he could be VP at his company. The downside of that is that if he has less income because he's handing it to Uncle Sam, that means less for me. My alimony would currently drop from about $650 a month to about $50 a month. Not enough to live as comfortably as I would like. I could still do it, but I really don't want to if I don't have to. Any man I get involved with will already understand that I already have children with him. And just strictly personality-wise, he'd have to understand why I'm staying legally married to my ex. Now, I don't care if future-guy uses it as an excuse to have fun with me on someone else's dime, but he will know the score and have to be okay with it, or he's not the guy for me. Now, if my plans go the right way, in about 5-7 years, him being a VP isn't going to make a damn bit of difference, because I'll be making more money than I know what to do with. So, at that point, if I'm ready to get married or divorced, I don't care about his money and I'll do whatever I want, no matter what financial state it leaves him in. In the meantime, I'd rather have the money than hand it to the government. Before he left, I told him that if I can't have him, I'll have his paycheck, and he took me seriously. When I asked him for the divorce, I'll admit that it was mostly to prove a point to him that I'm not under his thumb anymore. But when we did our contract, we specifically stated in it that the legal marriage should remain in place as long as possible. In that 5-7 years time, I won't care about any possible penalties. But it also works the other way too. If he wants out so he can marry her, fine. Let me know when so I can have the kids there. But he's a sucker if he thinks his alimony will go down because of that- percentage be damned. He would have violated the contract. So no, it's not solely his decision. If you want to be honest, I have a lot more of a say in it than he does because he knows I'll get every dime he makes for the next 13 years at least. Right now, it suits me to remain legally married. When it doesn't, he's gone. (And even worse, he knows that I'm considering going into divorce law. He needs to keep me content. )
White Flower Posted May 4, 2009 Posted May 4, 2009 Good advice, and I suppose there's my answer. You're right. It's the reason most people get together, so why should she be any different? And I don't want the trump card. Trump what? I'm not jumping into any new relationship, I'm trying to sort out my feelings on the matter, and I'm excited about all the new opportunities I've got in front of me. Really, I've had a lot of stuff that I've planned to do for years, and this was just the push I needed. I don't have anything to trump, 'cause it's all going pretty well. Thanks everyone. I worried that I'd get a lot of hate, coming over here and asking about viewpoints from the OW. I'm just trying to figure it all out, same as anyone else.Oh, I wasn't assuming you were jumping into anything else; it just seemed you were unhappy with who he was anyway and if so it might have been difficult for you to get out of the M. Many people tend to feel trapped in a M unless something big happens, like cheating, and he kinda took care of that for you.:laugh:I'm just wondering if you would still be happy with him if he didn't cheat.
wildsoul Posted May 4, 2009 Posted May 4, 2009 This thread sure took a depressing turn. I understand wanting to protect the kids interests and being angry over the cheating. Taking him to the legal limit, I get that too. But staying married for all these twisted financial reasons is making a SHAM out of marriage.
Author Intricategirl Posted May 4, 2009 Author Posted May 4, 2009 Oh, I wasn't assuming you were jumping into anything else; it just seemed you were unhappy with who he was anyway and if so it might have been difficult for you to get out of the M. Many people tend to feel trapped in a M unless something big happens, like cheating, and he kinda took care of that for you.:laugh:I'm just wondering if you would still be happy with him if he didn't cheat. I was unhappy with him. I didn't have the guts to end it. Although I think he ended it badly and needs to grow up, I also think it's the only way he knew how to end it. Yeah, he totally took care of it for me. And no, I wasn't happy with him for a very long time. Every time I start tracing back, trying to find a point where I was happy with him, I realize that I wasn't happy even then. I mean, this is a guy that told me the night after we got married that he thought he made a mistake. I didn't have a lot of delusions of this ending well. I may not respect the reasons he left, but he left. Thank goodness!! lol (And there's not a single nail you didn't hit on the head in that paragraph. )
White Flower Posted May 4, 2009 Posted May 4, 2009 I was unhappy with him. I didn't have the guts to end it. Although I think he ended it badly and needs to grow up, I also think it's the only way he knew how to end it. Yeah, he totally took care of it for me. And no, I wasn't happy with him for a very long time. Every time I start tracing back, trying to find a point where I was happy with him, I realize that I wasn't happy even then. I mean, this is a guy that told me the night after we got married that he thought he made a mistake. I didn't have a lot of delusions of this ending well. I may not respect the reasons he left, but he left. Thank goodness!! lol (And there's not a single nail you didn't hit on the head in that paragraph. ) I think what he did was called an 'exit affair'. Many people do this because they know of no other way to end a M other than doing it big. It is sad that he chose such a way because it made you feel bad, yet, you are now going to be free of someone who made your self-worth plummet immediately after the wedding. Now you will work on you and begin to demand better things for yourself, including better men (if you so choose:)).
Author Intricategirl Posted May 4, 2009 Author Posted May 4, 2009 This thread sure took a depressing turn. I understand wanting to protect the kids interests and being angry over the cheating. Taking him to the legal limit, I get that too. But staying married for all these twisted financial reasons is making a SHAM out of marriage. *snort* Sorry, but that is actually really funny to me. This is a man that cheated on me more times than I can count. He decided that first he was bi, then he was gay, then wanted to bring home a girl to live with us, then had a fetish that he never really talked to me about but held it against me when I didn't magically know what was on his mind. When he finally left, I was right smack dab in the middle of a breast cancer scare and he knew about it. And frankly, I'm posting on a board trying to understand the OW's point of view- a woman that if she visited my home, she would avoid walking on the daisies 'cause it's the polite thing to do, but had no trouble walking over my marriage and my kid's relationship with their father. But yeah. The financial stuff is what made it a sham... Right. ------------------------------------------------------ WF, holy cow, there's a term for it!! lol He pulled the exit affair quite a few times, but forgot to follow through. But you're right. I'm working on getting it together. I'm back at school, I just got a full-time job, and I'm literally picking up exactly where I was 13 years ago when I met him, and see nothing but potential in front of me. And heck yeah to the better men. Cheers!
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