Trialbyfire Posted May 3, 2009 Posted May 3, 2009 Only cars I've raced at the track (road race) are Mustangs and a few GM and Chrysler products. I've never been in a BMW at the track. Based on that comparison, driving the tow vehicle (the pickup) is boring and pedestrian. This is the important distinction. I raced at the track for the better part of 20 years. I don't need to drive fast or have a performance car on the street. Obviously everyone is different. Because of my track experience, I'm very cautious on the street. My wife says I drive like grandpa, and she's right. Once in awhile I would scare her to death with a few track moves on the street, driving her Acura, then go back to being grandpa. Life's interesting I've done some non-comp drag racing myself but wouldn't bother with my 330i. It's not intended for raw power and anyone who abuses one for this purpose, doesn't understand their car's strengths. It's like autocrossing with an F-body. Your needs are different than mine. While I defensive drive like mad, I still enjoy spirited driving on streets and highways. I think it assumptive that people think it's solely for the status symbol. If you do your homework, bang for the buck for a well-rounded car = BMW, IMO.
Ruby Slippers Posted May 3, 2009 Posted May 3, 2009 I know a guy in the car industry, and he tells me that there is virtually NO difference in the performance of a Toyota versus a Lexus. A Lexus is just a $40,000+ Toyota in a fancy marketing package. It's the exact same concept as a Gucci bag. It's really no better in terms of performance that your garden variety handbag. Of course, the marketing team will come up with a hundred reasons why the status item with the brand name is better, but it's a ruse. Excerpt from a book I'm reading: Designer labels are primarily collective identities that you buy into. They are expensive and "exclusive". If everybody could buy them, they would lose their psychological value and all you would be left with would be their material value, which likely amounts to a fraction of what you paid. I think the ownership of a status car is an exercise in ego.
Trialbyfire Posted May 3, 2009 Posted May 3, 2009 I know a guy in the car industry, and he tells me that there is virtually NO difference in the performance of a Toyota versus a Lexus. A Lexus is just a $40,000+ Toyota in a fancy marketing package. It's the exact same concept as a Gucci bag. It's really no better in terms of performance that your garden variety handbag. Of course, the marketing team will come up with a hundred reasons why the status item with the brand name is better, but it's a ruse. Excerpt from a book I'm reading: Designer labels are primarily collective identities that you buy into. They are expensive and "exclusive". If everybody could buy them, they would lose their psychological value and all you would be left with would be their material value, which likely amounts to a fraction of what you paid. I think the ownership of a status car is an exercise in ego.Most car salesman know diddly-squat, no offense intended but anyone who says an IS350 is the same as a Corolla, needs his head examined...
allina Posted May 3, 2009 Posted May 3, 2009 When I get a little worried is when I see a 26 year-old still paying for college, has no 401k, has no emergency cash cushion, and is driving a new BMW. The above situation describes someone shallow and not very bright. Overspending and living outside of your means is sad, and far from impressive. I would be so put off by a guy who felt like he needed a car as a status symbol, especially is he couldn't afford it At the same time, I don't think a BMW or a Mercedes are necessarily "status" cars. To me they're good cars that professionals like. Most of the new BMWs and Mercedes you see on the road are well under 100k. A status car is something like a Bentley or Porsche. I would never date a guy who drove a Hummer Tackiest monstrosities I've ever seen I always :lmao: when I see some idiot trying to manoeuvre a Hummer around San Francisco.
Jake Barnes Posted May 3, 2009 Posted May 3, 2009 The above situation describes someone shallow and not very bright. Overspending and living outside of your means is sad, and far from impressive. I would be so put off by a guy who felt like he needed a car as a status symbol, especially is he couldn't afford it At the same time, I don't think a BMW or a Mercedes are necessarily "status" cars. To me they're good cars that professionals like. Most of the new BMWs and Mercedes you see on the road are well under 100k. A status car is something like a Bentley or Porsche. I would never date a guy who drove a Hummer Tackiest monstrosities I've ever seen I always :lmao: when I see some idiot trying to manoeuvre a Hummer around San Francisco.would you ever date a butcher who drove a Ford 4X4 and listened to Rush Limbaugh
Star Gazer Posted May 3, 2009 Posted May 3, 2009 Most car salesman know diddly-squat, no offense intended but anyone who says an IS350 is the same as a Corolla, needs his head examined... No joke!
allina Posted May 3, 2009 Posted May 3, 2009 would you ever date a butcher who drove a Ford 4X4 and listened to Rush Limbaugh Never, absolutely not
Trialbyfire Posted May 3, 2009 Posted May 3, 2009 Oh, and if a girl with a BMW can explain in 30 seconds or less the virtues of rear wheel drive and an inline-six vs. a V6, I might just propose marriage on the spot. I've already got a fiance but I'll answer your questions. Balance v. space considerations. What is more efficient, pushing v. pulling? Check out the physics of the matter.
allina Posted May 3, 2009 Posted May 3, 2009 Oh please they are status cars. To the average person, which if you look at society as a whole not just the rich pockets of a country, those cars are still symbols of status. Problem is, we have been inundated by the media to think the way that the kids live on OC is the status quo. If you can't afford it you should not do it. Save for the life you want. A sacrifice today goes a long way tomorrow. Well I am an average person and in my opinion they are nice/good cars but not status symbols. We have different opinions on that and that's ok. And with me it's not really about media as I don't watch any stupid TV shows like The OC. I absolutely agree with the other part of your post.
Author rchrd881 Posted May 3, 2009 Author Posted May 3, 2009 It probably depends on your upbringing and what part of the country you grew up in. Here, a $40k 3-series or a C-class isn't much of a status symbol because there are so many of them. Where I grew up, $40k was a typical annual household income for two working parents; These people don't even dream about owning a $40k car. They're dream is to someday send their kids to a good college. To these folk, a $40k car is very obvious status marker. Most of the country lives like this. Those of us living in SoCal dreamland, NYC, Chicago, or other wealthy metro areas forget that we're the exception, not the norm.
Trialbyfire Posted May 3, 2009 Posted May 3, 2009 Where here, every Tom, Dick or Henrietta, drives a BMW, Lexus, Mercedes, Infiniti, etc. They're no big deal here so that's why it's assumptive for people to believe it's solely a status symbol. I do agree with everyone, that if you're spending beyond your means, then it's silly. Of course this should include anything bought on credit, which I suspect, most of you who are knocking decent cars or perceive them to be an "issue", have debt, including possibly student loans. Why not just enjoy the life you have, instead of looking elsewhere with green-eyed envy?
Author rchrd881 Posted May 3, 2009 Author Posted May 3, 2009 Why not just enjoy the life you have, instead of looking elsewhere with green-eyed envy?Careful there. I've no envy as I have the ability to pay cash for one. I'm railing against the stupidity of being expected to own one if you have the means to do so.
Author rchrd881 Posted May 3, 2009 Author Posted May 3, 2009 Made what though?The job that pays well enough to allow you to pile-on enough debt to force you to keep showing up at that job.
Trialbyfire Posted May 3, 2009 Posted May 3, 2009 Well they all drive them because it IS a status symbol. Where I live we don't have autobonds, I bet where most of you live your areas don't cater to roads where you can truly drive in speed, unless you are in Germany. So there is no use for cars of that magintude for urban, city, or inter urban driving. It's PURELY status. You don't understand cars if you're only concerned about top-end speed. Careful there. I've no envy as I have the ability to pay cash for one. I'm railing against the stupidity of being expected to own one if you have the means to do so. Who can make you do anything, you don't want to do? I drive something that's way below my means. It's cost effective for me.
Author rchrd881 Posted May 3, 2009 Author Posted May 3, 2009 Who can make you do anything, you don't want to do? I drive something that's way below my means. It's cost effective for me.As do I, but you're engaged and female(?). You have a Get Out of Jail Free card x2. As a male in the dating scene, even the non gold-diggers tend to assume I'm broke because I drive an under $20k car.
Jake Barnes Posted May 3, 2009 Posted May 3, 2009 Where here, every Tom, Dick or Henrietta, drives a BMW, Lexus, Mercedes, Infiniti, etc. They're no big deal here so that's why it's assumptive for people to believe it's solely a status symbol. I do agree with everyone, that if you're spending beyond your means, then it's silly. Of course this should include anything bought on credit, which I suspect, most of you who are knocking decent cars or perceive them to be an "issue", have debt, including possibly student loans. Why not just enjoy the life you have, instead of looking elsewhere with green-eyed envy? You can't compare student debt to luxury sports cars Not everyone grew up with rich parents TBF
Trialbyfire Posted May 3, 2009 Posted May 3, 2009 As do I, but you're engaged and female(?). You have a Get Out of Jail Free card x2. As a male in the dating scene, even the non gold-diggers tend to assume I'm broke because I drive an under $20k car.Yes, female, although I find it funny when people misjudge me. If anything, I play into it, which is something you might want to consider doing, for your personal amusement. You can't compare student debt to luxury sports cars Not everyone grew up with rich parents TBF My parents never funded my education so I don't know why you're even bringing that up.
Trialbyfire Posted May 3, 2009 Posted May 3, 2009 And you think all those little rich girls in California understand about the cars they are driving? You're right I probably don't. But I know that a Dodge Viper costs more than the BMW or Mercedes and yet you will never ever hear someone say a Dodge Viper is a symbol of wealth. But just like it takes no effort in someone's head to equate the golden arches of McDonalds to obesity, it takes just as much effort to equate a Mercedes and BMW to social status and $$$. I would go out on a limb here and say most people are wired the same way. Who cares what rich girls in Cali understand? If they're wealthy, they can afford whatever they want. Why is that a big issue with you? A Dodge Viper isn't known for its handling. Now if you're talking an SSC Ultimate Aero, that's another ballgame. Do you consider a Jag, a status symbol car?
Star Gazer Posted May 3, 2009 Posted May 3, 2009 You're right I probably don't. But I know that a Dodge Viper costs more than the BMW or Mercedes and yet you will never ever hear someone say a Dodge Viper is a symbol of wealth. And I am (er, was!) one of those people. Just for curiosity, I looked it up just now. $91K retail! OMG! I don't know why, but I cannot fathom ever spending that much money on a Dodge anything...
Star Gazer Posted May 3, 2009 Posted May 3, 2009 I guess I consider the lineage of the engineering and luxury when determining "status." A 3-series or C-series (entry levels) would always beet out a Viper in terms of status for me.
allina Posted May 3, 2009 Posted May 3, 2009 I cannot fathom ever spending that much money on a Dodge anything... :laugh:
Jake Barnes Posted May 3, 2009 Posted May 3, 2009 My parents never funded my education so I don't know why you're even bringing that up.Because you are comparing taking out loans for higher education to buying sports cars I know very few people who didnt have to take out educational loans and the ones who didn't had rich families
jerbear Posted May 3, 2009 Posted May 3, 2009 Unfortunately symbols, stuff, clothes, labels, education etc... are status symbols and also signs of achievement. I must admit to having some doubts about this many people (neighbors and co-workers) having to meet with million-dollar clients as part of their job. SG already pointed it out. Some of the clients I meet, I have to wear a suit to meet them. You're not going to a realtor who drives a worse car than you when buying a house, knowing full well that the commission is 6% of the selling price. One has to be professional and even dress for the part. You're right, it's not likely. I wasn't meeting with them often either. But as a Plaintiff's attorney (at the time), I still felt compelled to put on an air of success, like the partners at my firm did. Can you imagine an attorney trying to convince you how successful they are at suing people if they're driving a ho-hum car? Ya know? Seriously, in Laguna/Newport and CC/BevH/Palisades/BelAir, etc., you still dress for the job/LIFE you want, not the one you have, because unfortunately, in places like that, you have to "fit in" first before you'll ever be able to move up. I guess it's one of many requirements for getting your foot in the door.Dress for success, dress for the job you want not have. I think it assumptive that people think it's solely for the status symbol. If you do your homework, bang for the buck for a well-rounded car = BMW, IMO. BMW's are one of the cars with the most bang for the buck because of their service. A 4 year ultimate service helps save on TCO. When Lexus and Infiniti entered the market, BMW and MB focused on quality, experience, and SERVICE. One unique thing for BMW and MB is their European delivery, Lexus and Infiniti does not do that! How many Americans get to drive their MB/BMW/ (& Porche) on the Autobahn?! (plus get up to 7% off to boot) I know a guy in the car industry, and he tells me that there is virtually NO difference in the performance of a Toyota versus a Lexus. A Lexus is just a $40,000+ Toyota in a fancy marketing package. It's the exact same concept as a Gucci bag. It's really no better in terms of performance that your garden variety handbag. Of course, the marketing team will come up with a hundred reasons why the status item with the brand name is better, but it's a ruse. Excerpt from a book I'm reading: Designer labels are primarily collective identities that you buy into. They are expensive and "exclusive". If everybody could buy them, they would lose their psychological value and all you would be left with would be their material value, which likely amounts to a fraction of what you paid. I think the ownership of a status car is an exercise in ego. Not necessarily true about collective identities or brand name is better. I will use the BMW and Armani suits as examples. If I have a problem with a BMW, shoes, and the suits, I usually get it resolved in one call versus being put on hold for Dodge, write a letter, and I have to pay first then get reimbursed. In regards to the material value to monetary value, yes the designer label does not make sense sometimes. Why pay 3x the cost for something that is twice as good? sometimes it does not make sense to pay $40k for a car when one can spend $20k for a car then replace it 3 years later; versus driving the $40k car to the ground in 5 years. A few years ago, you couldn't get a car with built-in NAV for under $35k now you can find them in Civics for around $20k. The above situation describes someone shallow and not very bright. Overspending and living outside of your means is sad, and far from impressive. I would be so put off by a guy who felt like he needed a car as a status symbol, especially is he couldn't afford it So true! Well for me it would be a gal versus guy. I do agree with everyone, that if you're spending beyond your means, then it's silly. I'm a reformed silly person. :laugh:
Star Gazer Posted May 3, 2009 Posted May 3, 2009 I know very few people who didnt have to take out educational loans and the ones who didn't had rich families My family is dirt poor and didn't fund one cent of my education. I put myself through undergrad, and if I had chosen either one of two certain schools, I would have had a free ride to law school via scholarships and grants.
Star Gazer Posted May 3, 2009 Posted May 3, 2009 Not necessarily true about collective identities or brand name is better. I will use the BMW and Armani suits as examples. If I have a problem with a BMW, shoes, and the suits, I usually get it resolved in one call versus being put on hold for Dodge, write a letter, and I have to pay first then get reimbursed. Yup. I have to say, now that I've had the taste of high-end service, I sometimes have trouble considering down-grading. MB service is something else, let me tell you!
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