ihateusernames Posted April 30, 2009 Posted April 30, 2009 It feels almost traitorous to post here - but I need to do this! Please excuse me if this is a tad lengthy. Long story short: married almost 10 years agodifferent cultural/country backgrounds (me Australian, her from Asia)different generations (me an early Gen X, her a Gen Y)marriage worked really well up till around a year and a half or so backdiffering attitudes to responsibilities and 'driving' one's own life (I returned to education as an adult and created a career, she often has to be pushed quite hard to do anything)differing approaches to raising our two children (boy 4, girl 7 - I try to be supportive but with clear boundaries and clear discipline, she can be a bit off-handed and IMHO a bit harsh)kids respond quite differently to each of us (they come to me for almost everything {in itself quite frustrating}, which I interpret as them rejecting her off-handedness)the marriage, whilst lacking in romance and 'heat' (i.e., sex), has always been and remains amicable - and I need to acknowledge she is working hard to get some 'heat' back into the marriagediffering approaches to tech and distractions (she will burn hours each day on her laptop, though I admit I can easily watch too much TV)she has made a couple of semi-serious errors of judgement, and fundamentally I do not trust her judgement and ability to make rational adult decisions and choicesI left home and school at 14 and keep a big distance from my original family (they are all bloody hopeless and useless), she was still in her original family right up to when we married and has never 'flown solo' as an adult (which I believe has seriously restricted her opportunities for personal growth - through no fault of her own)her family live in poverty in Asia, this causes her no end of guilt, me no end of frustration (its money that comes out of my own family and ultimately will affect what I can provide to my own kids - and I make no apologies for being selfish about giving my kids a decent start in life), and I have had to establish a separate account so she can put money away for her parents and deal with those issues herself.So, here's the rub. I love her, but feel drained and am just not interested in romance or sex. I feel like I am the father of three kids, not the actual two that are children. I am tired, sick of directing the wife in her chores, tired of the house being a mess unless I clean it up or do a 'dummy spit' to make things happen, tired of (out of sight/hearing of the kids) adjusting her behaviour to the kids, tired of doing all the adult thinking and decision-making, and sick and completely fed up with feeling like I am the only adult in this family. There are no infidelities, there are no abusive arguments - there is just no 'heat' (mostly my fault - I am emotionally and physically exhausted, and I have rejected all sex for ages now), and I do not see that changing soon. She has also had terrible acne for over a year now, and I admit this has been quite off-putting too. She has also been quite vocal in letting me know she is not happy with the lack of 'heat'. I have, for some 6-12 months, been seriously thinking of asking her for a separation. We have discussed the matter, and thankfully she agrees not to ruin me financially and that I would have sole custody of the kids (she would of course have reasonable access/visitation/custody - but not shared custody). I believe her in this, and believe she would negotiate a separation agreement in good faith. What concerns me is: most importantly, how this would affect the kids - they love their Mum very much, and miss her when she is not there (e.g., when I recently took them sailing for a couple of weeks on our own - wife could not get leave)whether this situation will change as my son starts school next year and life gets a little easierwhether I have fallen into a negative frame of mind, and am judging her too harshly (as per cognitive beaviour therapy)would this have impacts to my mental health - this situation drove me into depression about 8-10 mths ago which I sought counselling on, got medication to treat, have corrected (though I feel it coming back on lately), and (very sadly) my wife appeared not to believe (stating that depression was 'make believe)if I could be "throwing the baby out with the bathwater" (i.e., acting prematurely, and creating a bad situation for all four of us.I am seriously confused. I just want my wife to carry her share of the load, grow up a bit, and to have a reasonably organised and in-control life. An option that is shaping up is in relation to some travel for her. She has been saving (well actually, I have been putting part of her wages into an account for her) for some travel. She wants to do some travel, and then visit her parents and siblings in Asia. My thinking at this point is: have the difficult discussion that acknowledges that her travel will be a separation periodsee what happens when she travels, and hopefully see her achieve some personal growthreconsider how we both feel after that, but not necessarily having her return to the family home.The risks are that she might, being younger (and sexually frustrated), have relations with other men. In some senses that is a risk I may just have to take - she needs to grow up, and travelling is the only way I can see her getting the space to do so whilst stil leaving the option open for us to kick this marriage back into top gear again. So in short: I have booked some counselling for us as a couple - when the appointment is confirmed next week I will advise her, and this is not up for negotiation! I am seriously considering negotiating a separation, but fear that we could easily move from separation to divorce. I feel I can give the kids what they need on my own, but dread having to do that and believe tht kids benefit much more from having both parents in a happy and functioning marriage. I really do believe my wife needs to have some room to grow and mature. Feel that the travel option, as a set-term separation with negotiation to follow, may be the best approach which leaves the most options open to moving forward in the future. Ultimately, I think we are likely to go for the travel option (probably making booking within a few weeks), and I fear we may well end up separating and eventually divorcing (that negative thinking is back again - see!). Any feedback appreciated. p.s. no responses that involve God/prayer/religion please - I am a confirmed atheist and have absolutely no interest in such responses thank you!
FragileSwan Posted April 30, 2009 Posted April 30, 2009 If you aren't Christian, there are no problems with divorce. The idea of monogamous marriage, for life, is from ancient Israel, and was made popular in The Western World by The Roman Catholic Church. Other than Mother Church, there is no one that says marriage is for life. That's squarely a Christian custom. If you are Catholic, then you got married in a Catholic Ceremony, and you know you are forbidden to divorce.
FragileSwan Posted April 30, 2009 Posted April 30, 2009 If you aren't Christian, there are no problems with divorce. The idea of monogamous marriage, for life, is from ancient Israel, and was made popular in The Western World by The Roman Catholic Church. Other than Mother Church, there is no one that says marriage is for life. That's squarely a Christian custom. If you are Catholic, then you got married in a Catholic Ceremony, and you know you are forbidden to divorce.
Cinnamon777 Posted April 30, 2009 Posted April 30, 2009 I have been going through some similar feelings. My husband and I have been married for 8 years, 2 children also 4 & 7, where I feel completely exhausted from trying to make things work. I've supported him through his "bad habit", encouraged changes, and done my best to keep some fire in the bedroom. I feel your confusion in wanting to do the best thing for you, your wife, and your children. My kids come to me for pretty much everything as well. My love bank is completely empty though, and as a matter of fact feels like it is in the negative numbers. I think giving the travel separation idea a chance is very good. It will give you the opportunity to see if you miss her and how the kids react to her absence. I would not force her into marriage counseling before she goes. Wait until she comes back so you will have a more clear perspective on how you feel about both her and the marriage. I would have a talk with her before she leaves. Let her know how you are feeling and that you are going to view her time away as a trial separation. This will give her time to think about things while she is gone too. When she returns, you should try to have someone take care of the kids for a day or so for the two of you to spend time together. Compare notes regarding the time apart and see where you are both feeling emotionally toward one another and the marriage. You can decide at that time to start marriage counseling, which could help improve things or at the very least to help make a transition plan for a longer separation. I don't know if you are just having negative thinking to believe you are ultimately going to separate and divorce. If you have been feeling this way for a long time, then it's likely you are just doubting yourself (intuitions), but the fact you are reaching out for help/advice means you either want to feel like it's ok to move on or that you want someone to tell you to keep working on things. I feel the same way! The best advice I can give you is to be patient right now, mostly with yourself. It's ok to be having these thoughts, as questioning things gets us to where we need to be. If by questioning things you find you can work things out, it will make your marriage stronger and the future challenges will be faced with more confidence. If however the questioning makes you realize that things need to end for you to be happy and be the best parent you can be for your children, then you will be able to proceed with the separation and divorce with confidence you are making the right decisions. Best of luck!!
sally4sara Posted April 30, 2009 Posted April 30, 2009 I can see why these issues tax you out. It does weigh one down to carry the other all the time. Now, you'll get some flack about the age difference and there is some validity to but, what can you do about that now right? What it is boiling down to is her immaturity lead you to control too many aspects of your relationship. While you cite the reasons why you did so with controlling the assets and her wages, doing so long term just perpetuates the problem. You constructed a life that didn't just prevent her from making mistakes, you also constructed a life that prevented her from learning from mistakes made and then denied her the ability to improve upon those lessons she could've learned through those mistakes. You got to go through these stages and reap the benefit of it. You got an early start by breaking away from your family at a young age. I did the same and because of it, I can tend to be a bit controlling if I don't watch it. It sounds like years of making things work YOUR way has lead you to be unwilling to weather the mistakes of others; even your wife. This is why, 10 years later, you're still married to a child. Because you did so, abandoning your marriage is a tad cruel. You helped (unwittingly indeed, but still......) keep her stunted and now you want rid of the problem it causes. Before you call it quits, why not be controlling just a tish longer and insist she go for her education as well? If marriage is for better or worse to you, and this isn't about abuse in any form, shouldn't her higher learning be to your benefit too and thereby a worthwhile goal to "push" her towards. I mean, if you're going to set ultimatums with counseling, can't you set ultimatums with education as well? If she goes, her earning power increases which means she could be more able to contribute to both your unit as well as her relatives. You also need to recognize that you have had a tough time with your extended family and that has likely put a spin on her connection to her own family. It isn't that important to you, so you have trouble respecting and lending validity to her familial connection. That is a you problem, not a her problem. Please try to recognize that. And if she goes to school and things still don't work out, she will be better off as a single mother to your kids and less of a continued drain to you. The acne thing is likely bothering you a lot more because of the other issues than it ever would without them. If not, you never really loved this woman to begin with. It is trifling so stop focusing on it and get her some Proactive or whatever. Then, at some point, you have to loosen up, give her some freedom and see if she can correct her mistakes and truely be your partner. Good luck!
mark982 Posted April 30, 2009 Posted April 30, 2009 she has family living in poverty in asia, and you don't think she's going to rake you over the coals in a divorce? you're already sending them $$, if she's no longer gonna be you're wife, she's gonna take every dime she can to help them.
Author ihateusernames Posted April 30, 2009 Author Posted April 30, 2009 she has family living in poverty in asia, and you don't think she's going to rake you over the coals in a divorce? you're already sending them $$, if she's no longer gonna be you're wife, she's gonna take every dime she can to help them. Mark, with respect, you really need to open up to the fact that some people can operate with integrity. You are right off the mark here.
Author ihateusernames Posted April 30, 2009 Author Posted April 30, 2009 I can see why these issues tax you out. It does weigh one down to carry the other all the time. Now, you'll get some flack about the age difference and there is some validity to but, what can you do about that now right? What it is boiling down to is her immaturity lead you to control too many aspects of your relationship. While you cite the reasons why you did so with controlling the assets and her wages, doing so long term just perpetuates the problem. You constructed a life that didn't just prevent her from making mistakes, you also constructed a life that prevented her from learning from mistakes made and then denied her the ability to improve upon those lessons she could've learned through those mistakes. You got to go through these stages and reap the benefit of it. You got an early start by breaking away from your family at a young age. I did the same and because of it, I can tend to be a bit controlling if I don't watch it. It sounds like years of making things work YOUR way has lead you to be unwilling to weather the mistakes of others; even your wife. This is why, 10 years later, you're still married to a child. Because you did so, abandoning your marriage is a tad cruel. You helped (unwittingly indeed, but still......) keep her stunted and now you want rid of the problem it causes. Before you call it quits, why not be controlling just a tish longer and insist she go for her education as well? If marriage is for better or worse to you, and this isn't about abuse in any form, shouldn't her higher learning be to your benefit too and thereby a worthwhile goal to "push" her towards. I mean, if you're going to set ultimatums with counseling, can't you set ultimatums with education as well? If she goes, her earning power increases which means she could be more able to contribute to both your unit as well as her relatives. You also need to recognize that you have had a tough time with your extended family and that has likely put a spin on her connection to her own family. It isn't that important to you, so you have trouble respecting and lending validity to her familial connection. That is a you problem, not a her problem. Please try to recognize that. And if she goes to school and things still don't work out, she will be better off as a single mother to your kids and less of a continued drain to you. The acne thing is likely bothering you a lot more because of the other issues than it ever would without them. If not, you never really loved this woman to begin with. It is trifling so stop focusing on it and get her some Proactive or whatever. Then, at some point, you have to loosen up, give her some freedom and see if she can correct her mistakes and truely be your partner. Good luck! Sally There is a lot in what you say. I should have provided more detail - though did not want to be too lengthy. We have been down the education route, and it worked quite well. It has resulted in her gaining employment (with a little 'encouragement'). My wife also ran all our finances for several years. When we first married I bought into the routine of learning through doing and making mistakes - and I think we both did okay. I do acknowledge I am also a bit harsh though. I expect quite a bit, and maybe I am simply asking too much. Indeed I think you are correct - I am a bit controlling, and I justify it because it has been te only way to make my life work and improve. Jesus, I even do it at work with my staff. But is it wrong to try and make things work better, and to want to have a life that is (at least moderately/sufficiently) under control? But I think fundamentally you are correct - I had/made the opportunities to take control and grow, and my wife has not had those opportunities (through no fault of her own). This is why I see the travel option as attractive - she gets space, she gets some fun and independence, we maintain the connection (at least hopefully), and ultimately 'our' family gets two fully operating adults - be it together or apart. Thanks for the constructive feedback.
Author ihateusernames Posted April 30, 2009 Author Posted April 30, 2009 I have been going through some similar feelings. My husband and I have been married for 8 years, 2 children also 4 & 7, where I feel completely exhausted from trying to make things work. I've supported him through his "bad habit", encouraged changes, and done my best to keep some fire in the bedroom. I feel your confusion in wanting to do the best thing for you, your wife, and your children. My kids come to me for pretty much everything as well. My love bank is completely empty though, and as a matter of fact feels like it is in the negative numbers. I think giving the travel separation idea a chance is very good. It will give you the opportunity to see if you miss her and how the kids react to her absence. I would not force her into marriage counseling before she goes. Wait until she comes back so you will have a more clear perspective on how you feel about both her and the marriage. I would have a talk with her before she leaves. Let her know how you are feeling and that you are going to view her time away as a trial separation. This will give her time to think about things while she is gone too. When she returns, you should try to have someone take care of the kids for a day or so for the two of you to spend time together. Compare notes regarding the time apart and see where you are both feeling emotionally toward one another and the marriage. You can decide at that time to start marriage counseling, which could help improve things or at the very least to help make a transition plan for a longer separation. I don't know if you are just having negative thinking to believe you are ultimately going to separate and divorce. If you have been feeling this way for a long time, then it's likely you are just doubting yourself (intuitions), but the fact you are reaching out for help/advice means you either want to feel like it's ok to move on or that you want someone to tell you to keep working on things. I feel the same way! The best advice I can give you is to be patient right now, mostly with yourself. It's ok to be having these thoughts, as questioning things gets us to where we need to be. If by questioning things you find you can work things out, it will make your marriage stronger and the future challenges will be faced with more confidence. If however the questioning makes you realize that things need to end for you to be happy and be the best parent you can be for your children, then you will be able to proceed with the separation and divorce with confidence you are making the right decisions. Best of luck!! Cinnamon I really appreciate the feedback. Your are correct - patience is critical! I feel similarly to your responses about the travel. And fundamentally I believe I want this marriage to work. So your suggestions on how to make the travel option work to better effect is greatly appreciated - thank you.
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