where did you meet your MM

[MizzBlue72]

Met on mutual website....

 

You should not blame the OW. If the MM did not want to do this - he wouldn't be there - end of story. If there were not problems in the marriage prior to the OW - the MM would not be there.

 

Each person has a part to play in this - it just amazes me how the wife always blames the OW.

 

Do you ever THINK that when I met my lover - did he wear a ring?? Ah - NO. WHY I wonder and WHY was he not forthcoming with the information 'oh, by the way, I am married...'.

 

No - that's too easy - this man in particular waited to tell me after I was already head over heels. My fault - I should have known a guy like him was either married or gay ....

 

I am just saying - don't be so quick to judge. You have never ever been in this position - and you should be thankful that you haven't, because it hurts like hell, knowing something that you thought your had that was fantastic, amazing, etc. could be a lie. It hurts ---- you should really have a little more compassion here.

 

This is an open forum - not a place to knock each other around.

[bentnotbroken]

And as an open forum, you got the opinions of people on an open forum, good, bad or otherwise.

[mystiblue]

I met him at my work. It was love at first sight. THe day I got hired, I was coming out of the office manager's office and there he was: he stood at the front desk and we both locked eyes for what seemed a few minutes. It was the quintessential " across a crowded room" thing.

The first 6 months were the " I see you and want to be with you dance" at work. The sexual tension was there. He made it known that he liked me, but when I told him in the begginning that I had a boyfriend he backed off.

Only after he learned I broke it off ) for other reasons, did he start to come on again like a frieght train, with in the last two months.

He is egyptian and had an arranged marriage at age 24. He's been married 25 years and has two college age kids in college.

He has professed his love to me and is kind and very loving. We have NOT made love at this time. Our affections have been kissing, hugging and some petting. We both are confused and on the fence about our situation. The connection runs VERY deep and we both have tried to deny it for months. It is a day by day thing and the love runs deep. I don't care what ANYONE says, for you are NOT in mine or his shoes, nor do you understand the situation. I'm not posting the details of why he's doing what he's doing. You can "pooh pooh" me all you want, but I know the intimate details and if you knew, you'd have a better understanding and would be shocked; however, I will not post them out of respect.

Now, I understand that posting here on a public forum regarding a delicate subject as this will bring in much judgement, hate and disregard from people. But it's funny, because watch out what you say, for you may find yourself in the same situation. I too used to be one of those who passed judgement upon others and now I find that I'm on the other side of the coin.

" Judge not lest ye be judged". Matthew 7:1

[bentnotbroken]

I met him at my work. It was love at first sight. THe day I got hired, I was coming out of the office manager's office and there he was: he stood at the front desk and we both locked eyes for what seemed a few minutes. It was the quintessential " across a crowded room" thing.

The first 6 months were the " I see you and want to be with you dance" at work. The sexual tension was there. He made it known that he liked me, but when I told him in the begginning that I had a boyfriend he backed off.

Only after he learned I broke it off ) for other reasons, did he start to come on again like a frieght train, with in the last two months.

He is egyptian and had an arranged marriage at age 24. He's been married 25 years and has two college age kids in college.

He has professed his love to me and is kind and very loving. We have NOT made love at this time. Our affections have been kissing, hugging and some petting. We both are confused and on the fence about our situation. The connection runs VERY deep and we both have tried to deny it for months. It is a day by day thing and the love runs deep. I don't care what ANYONE says, for you are NOT in mine or his shoes, nor do you understand the situation. I'm not posting the details of why he's doing what he's doing. You can "pooh pooh" me all you want, but I know the intimate details and if you knew, you'd have a better understanding and would be shocked; however, I will not post them out of respect.

Now, I understand that posting here on a public forum regarding a delicate subject as this will bring in much judgement, hate and disregard from people. But it's funny, because watch out what you say, for you may find yourself in the same situation. I too used to be one of those who passed judgement upon others and now I find that I'm on the other side of the coin.

" Judge not lest ye be judged". Matthew 7:1

 

 

Thou shalt not commit adultery, 10 commandments.

[mystiblue]

Ok here we go with the first 'bashing':

 

 

[FONT=Arial]When a man takes a wife and marries her, and it happens that she finds no favor in his eyes because he has found some uncleanness in her, AND HE WRITES HER A CERTIFICATE OF DIVORCE, puts it in her hand and sends her out of his house, and goes AND BECOMES ANOTHER MAN’S WIFE...” (Deuteronomy 24:1, 2).[/FONT]

[bentnotbroken]

Where is the bashing. You quoted the bible, I quoted the bible. Are you saying you only live the parts of the bible you like?

 

1 Corinthians: 6:16-20;

 

Flee from sexual immorality, all other sins a man commits are outside his body but he who sins sexually sins against his own body. Do you not know that your body is a temple of the Holy Spirit, who is in you, whom you received from God? You are not your own,yo were bought at a price, therefor honor God with your body.

 

And before the rest of you jump in, I am only responding to this poster because she decided to use a part of the Bible as her shield.

[NoIDidn't]

I met my H at my work. He didn't hit on me or anything but left a note on how to contact him if I needed more information in my box. I just thought we were dating, so I guess you'd say he was the pursuer.

 

The bolded part is so disingenuous. A new poster that doesn't know the story might not read between the lines to see the part where you say he neglected to tell you his marital status.

 

But since you married him, I guess that means that little tidbit isn't important for anyone to know.

 

I'm not saying this to call you out. I just think its important for a new poster to know something like this because most women don't end up married to a guy that lied to them about something so important for them to know.

[NoIDidn't]

Ok here we go with the first 'bashing':

 

 

[FONT=Arial]When a man takes a wife and marries her, and it happens that she finds no favor in his eyes because he has found some uncleanness in her, AND HE WRITES HER A CERTIFICATE OF DIVORCE, puts it in her hand and sends her out of his house, and goes AND BECOMES ANOTHER MAN’S WIFE...” (Deuteronomy 24:1, 2).[/FONT]

 

 

LOL. I think you bolded the wrong part.

 

"AND HE WRITES HER A CERTIFICATE OF DIVORCE" should come before "ADULTERY".

 

Nothing worst than a cheater that quotes the Bible or any other Holy Book only picking and choosing what benefits them.

 

It was a good effort though. LOL

[GreenEyedLady]

The bolded part is so disingenuous. A new poster that doesn't know the story might not read between the lines to see the part where you say he neglected to tell you his marital status.

 

But since you married him, I guess that means that little tidbit isn't important for anyone to know.

 

I'm not saying this to call you out. I just think its important for a new poster to know something like this because most women don't end up married to a guy that lied to them about something so important for them to know.

 

I don't consider it calling me out. I would think that most posters know my story. I get pms from newbies frequently.

 

And it doesn't matter, does it? It sure doesn't matter to any BS who thinks as soon as you know his marital status you should end it. Or that one type of lie is different than another? Are you saying it is more noble of them to lie to their W's about where they are going and who they're going out with than whether they're married or not? A lie is a lie and when you're in this type of R, they abound.

 

I saw my H change his actions. I saw him change as a person. And our R is ours. And quite frankly I don't care what anyone thinks about it or us. What we think is what matters.

 

If BS's can get past their H cheating then why can't I get past him lying? W's are not the only ones who can forgive.

 

He's lucky I'm so "understanding." And I love him with all my heart.

 

And I wonder what if any is a correlation with how our R turned out. So you can say whatever you want on the forum. I have a couple thousand posts and anyone can look up what I say. And I've been pretty consistent, don'tcha think?

 

GEL

[Lucky_One]

Vodka, as I mentioned in your earlier post, please re-think trying to seduce one of your clients. Always a bad idea in a corporate environment.

 

 

Bumping, because I think it is a very valid point. Vodka, companies do NOT like it when you seduce their clients. A love affair goes back, the company loses the client's business, and the company suffers. Bad ju-ju all the way around.

 

Honestly, old married men are a dime a dozen. You can find them anywhere. If you really feel like you ought to have an affair because you like the sex and the secrecy, then at least do it away from your office.

[NoIDidn't]

I don't consider it calling me out. I would think that most posters know my story. I get pms from newbies frequently.

 

And it doesn't matter, does it? It sure doesn't matter to any BS who thinks as soon as you know his marital status you should end it. Or that one type of lie is different than another? Are you saying it is more noble of them to lie to their W's about where they are going and who they're going out with than whether they're married or not? A lie is a lie and when you're in this type of R, they abound.

 

I saw my H change his actions. I saw him change as a person. And our R is ours. And quite frankly I don't care what anyone thinks about it or us. What we think is what matters.

 

If BS's can get past their H cheating then why can't I get past him lying? W's are not the only ones who can forgive.

 

He's lucky I'm so "understanding." And I love him with all my heart.

 

And I wonder what if any is a correlation with how our R turned out. So you can say whatever you want on the forum. I have a couple thousand posts and anyone can look up what I say. And I've been pretty consistent, don'tcha think?

 

GEL

 

Like I said, I wasn't trying to call you out on anything and I certainly wasn't looking for another answer talking about how much he's changed. Its water under the bridge in your marriage now because you married him you must accept him for what he is and what he is capable of being.

 

I just think to say "I thought we were dating" when you found out later that you were dating a married man left an important part of your story out.

 

And again on the "how our relationship started" thing. I really don't care. You said many posts ago that you forgave him. My post wasn't a rehash of that.

 

I don't really understand the defensiveness.

[jj33]

Vodka you could get FIRED for seducing a client. The fallout is almost always apparent, you might not be comfortable dealing with the cilent afterwards or they might not be comfortable dealing with you. I was at a company where someone got involved with a vendor and was demoted and taken off the fast track he was on to being on the board (he was senior management) a very painful lesson... the vendor involved ended up having to leave the firm she was with.

 

Neither of them asked for assistance with the situation but the companies involved didnt care, they wanted to send a message that this type of thing was not acceptable.

 

I met xMM through my work. We both have our own companies so our bosses couldnt have fired us but if others had known they could have decided not to do business with us.

[mystiblue]

Hi BentnotBroken,

 

I appreciate your stand, and again, I fully realize that posting on a public forum was going to open myself to criticism, judgement, and other statements.

 

Playing devils advocate here, let's just say you were in my shoes. But since you are not, how can you sit and pass judgement on me? How do you KNOW truly what is going on?

 

Are you free from sin? Have you walked on water lately? Performed any miracles?

 

Do you think I ( and he) intentionally looked for something like this to happen? And how do you know he's not struggling with contemplating a divorce from an arranged marriage 25 years ago? How do you know he's not torn with wanting to be with the woman he TRULY loves vs staying in a marriage out of "honor" and "duty" to his daughters due to his cultural upbringing? Perhaps God has put us in each other's path to help us each learn a lesson that we need to learn. Perhaps the lesson for him to learn is to figure out that living a loveless marriage and playing a facade ( with or without) an affair just to keep up appearances and not devastate his daughters is just as dishonest as actually having an affair and certainly NOT fair to his wife who could be free to find someone who could TRULY love her.

 

Gods word is not always "black and white." If so, then the complex situations we are faced with would be easy.

Ecclesiastes 3:1

To every thing there is a season, and a time to every purpose under the heaven:

 

2 A time to be born, and a time to die; a time to plant, and a time to pluck up that which is planted;

3 A time to kill, and a time to heal; a time to break down, and a time to build up;

4 A time to weep, and a time to laugh; a time to mourn, and a time to dance;

5 A time to cast away stones, and a time to gather stones together; a time to embrace, and a time to refrain from embracing;

6 A time to get, and a time to lose; a time to keep, and a time to cast away;

7 A time to rend, and a time to sew; a time to keep silence, and a time to speak; 8 A time to love, and a time to hate; a time of war, and a time of peace

Thanks for your discussion.

[bentnotbroken]

HI to you too. Where did I pass judgement. That would require that I give you consequences for your sins, forgive you and then remove them from remembrance. You are the one who brought the Bible quote. I just gave you another in return. WE as in all of us are sinners, you don't hold the monopoly on that:laugh: Only he is perfect and without.

 

But the foolish idea that the Bible isn't black and white when it clearly states the wages of sin = death. God never puts you, me or anyone on a path of knowingly sinning (that's why we have the Bible & ten commandments) that's completely contradictory to why he went to the cross. The children of Israel wondered in the desert for 40 years on a journey that should have taken approximately 11 days because of sin.

 

And where is the time for adultery, I would like to read that for myself:lmao: Thanks for the discussion.

[NoIDidn't]

HI to you too. Where did I pass judgement. That would require that I give you consequences for your sins, forgive you and then remove them from remembrance. You are the one who brought the Bible quote. I just gave you another in return. WE as in all of us are sinners, you don't hold the monopoly on that:laugh: Only he is perfect and without.

 

But the foolish idea that the Bible isn't black and white when it clearly states the wages of sin = death. God never puts you, me or anyone on a path of knowingly sinning (that's why we have the Bible & ten commandments) that's completely contradictory to why he went to the cross. The children of Israel wondered in the desert for 40 years on a journey that should have taken approximately 11 days because of sin.

 

And where is the time for adultery, I would like to read that for myself:lmao: Thanks for the discussion.

 

Look in Proverbs for the "time for adultery". It says something about in the middle of the night, at the strange woman's house with the pit in it.

[tami-chan]

Hi mysticblue! I am not a Christian but I attended a Catholic school ( I know lol, they failed to educate me-my parents should get a refund ). Anyway, Christianity is very confusing to me....do you know that Abraham had many concubines? and yet in the end he still found "favor" in God's eyes...I even think that he is supposed to be sitting on the right hand side of God or something like that ( I could be wrong).

 

I love how a Christian can mouth off holy sanctimony whllst using crass language and when her/his own errors are pointed it, he/she can always then pull out the loophole of all loopholes: "I am human but I am a work in progress and with god's grace, etc.etc."...lol...I love it!

 

In the end, mysticblue, you will have to face your maker and explain yourself,right? Good thing your God is a just God.

[bentnotbroken]

Hi mysticblue! I am not a Christian but I attended a Catholic school ( I know lol, they failed to educate me-my parents should get a refund ). Anyway, Christianity is very confusing to me....do you know that Abraham had many concubines? and yet in the end he still found "favor" in God's eyes...I even think that he is supposed to be sitting on the right hand side of God or something like that ( I could be wrong).

 

I love how a Christian can mouth off holy sanctimony whllst using crass language and when her/his own errors are pointed it, he/she can always then pull out the loophole of all loopholes: "I am human but I am a work in progress and with god's grace, etc.etc."...lol...I love it!

 

In the end, mysticblue, you will have to face your maker and explain yourself,right? Good thing your God is a just God.

 

 

 

Good thing:laugh:

[jj33]

Tami Chan you do raise an interesting point. Many many cultures have historically been accepting of men having concubines, courtesans and mistresses. One need only look at various Asian cultures, European cultures and African cultures (the Emporer's concubines the King's courtesans the famous mistresses of aristocrats and noblemen).

 

Many of these people were Christian and indeed in England the heads of the Church. I think I even read somewhere that the aristocrats in England used to find favor with the King when he allowed them to sleep with their wives. And the King is the head of the Anglican Church. (And just look at Prince Charles for all those years with Camilla - and his mother is the head of the Anglican Church and he may be some day).

 

Many of these traditions live on. It sounds archaic but its true. Cultural norms are passed on through generations.

 

And while the men were celebrated for the beautiful and charming women they had at their disposal, the women were both reviled and respected for their ability to capture the attentions of such powerful men.

 

All that being said, I think that there has been a tension between what is in the 10 commandments and what has been been socially acceptable in practice for many centuries. yes it was based in large part on the idea that women were property but its interesting that it always goes hand in hand with the idea that a woman is a siren and that she has the power to tempt men. The man has historically escaped blame.

 

Adultery is socially taboo now in the United States and many other places but when you look at the fact that it was socially acceptable for so much of history, its harder (to me) to say that there are clear moral lines despite the obvious in the 10 commandments.

 

Im not condoning it, Im just saying I think you raise a good point. Its not as black and white as it seems.

[bentnotbroken]

But it is clear by this posters words, Christianity is a part of her life. She uses it to explain why she is with a MM. I too am aware of cultural norms being different all over the world. Typically because these norms are expected, there is no need to hide it. So I would assume this isn't the norm for these 2 people since they are so worried about just leaving and being in the open. If it is normal, there is no need to hide, right???

[jj33]

Oh you mean Mystic - am with you on that Bent. No support for adultery in the Bible of which I am aware but you are much more knowledgeable about it than I am.

 

Was just thinking about it more globally - even if its accepted for men to have other women the women are often looked down upon and deemed to be unmarriageable so they hide it. (not Camilla obviously).

 

 

 

Anyway that is not our case. Sorry for the t/j

[mystiblue]

In order to define adultery, we should discuss what a "true" marriage is first.

If a man/woman is in a marriage of convienence, perhaps an arranged marriage, or how about in name only for the sake of the children.

 

What if the man/woman are not currently sexually or emotionally tied to their partner? How about if a man/woman enters into a marriage with the wrong intentions, or there are issues?

 

The catholic church thoroughly investigates annulment petitions from civil divorces for those looking to marry in the church. It doesn't matter if you are not catholic and were not married in the church. ANY BAPTIZED CHRISTIAN WHO WISHES TO MARRY IN THE CHURCH HAS TO OBTAIN AN ANNULMENT.

 

The diocese requires interviews with the divorced couple, their parents, their relatives. The process requires intimate details of their pre and marital life, as well as affidavits from the relatives/close friends/god parents of the divorced couple. This is to determine if the marriage was entered into erroneously or if the marriage WAS VALID to begin with.

For example, I know of someone who got married, then got divorced because her husband divorced her because he was gay. She met someone and wanted to marry in the catholic church, but had to obtain an annulment. She went through the petiton/process, and it was determined that her marriage was null and she was granted the annulment on the grounds that the husband was not true and entered the marriage under false pretenses.

 

So my point in all this is what constitutes a marriage? To define adultery, you must first define what a marriage is first.

[MeaganRaye]

So my point in all this is what constitutes a marriage? To define adultery, you must first define what a marriage is first.

 

exactly, what if you are with a guy who is married but he and his wife are living in separate residence and have not seen each other for a very long time? not every affair is the same.

[bentnotbroken]

exactly, what if you are with a guy who is married but he and his wife are living in separate residence and have not seen each other for a very long time? not every affair is the same.

 

 

If there is no divorce decree, then the marriage is the same. No particular denomination can pigeon hold God's will or intent. The definition has stood for thousands of years, no matter what the current mood is. This does not include abusive(abuse to either spouse of the children) relationships.

[MeaganRaye]

If there is no divorce decree, then the marriage is the same. No particular denomination can pigeon hold God's will or intent. The definition has stood for thousands of years, no matter what the current mood is. This does not include abusive(abuse to either spouse of the children) relationships.

So you're saying the relationship is just as wrong if a woman was to be involved with a MM who has not seen his wife in months/years; they're not even living together anymore even though they are technically still married?

[Owl]

I'd take it further...you don't need a marriage to be in place in order to cheat on your significant other.

 

What "defines" the relationship is the expectation of emotional and physical commitment to each other. You know...the "Forsaking all others" in the marriage vows?

 

Even if you're not married...if you've expressed the intent and commitment of physical and emotional "faithfulness"...or monogamy if you like...then anytime you UNILATERALLY violate that commitment...you're in an affair. You're being unfaithful to your partner...spouse or not.

 

If you entered the relationship with both parties in agreemant to a DIFFERENT set of rules up front...say an "open" marriage...the definition for cheating would be different.

 

But since the vast majority of relationships that we're talking about here ARE built on the premise of commitment and monogamy...and that's the understanding that both parties entered the relationship with....the definition of cheating is equally simplistic.