Woggle Posted May 2, 2009 Posted May 2, 2009 Yeah... the question is how effed up do you need to be to actually "need" somebody to "stand up" to you. How hard it is to have a reciprocal, sane, low-maintenance relationship . This exactly what little children do when behaving terribly - test their parents limits, because they are insecure in their love, and so if they really love them, they'll love them no matter what and how terrible they do, right? :sick: I'm holding onto my "nice girl" for dear life and won't swap her for any of that kind of drama. It seems that for many women it is pretty much rocket science to have a happy and healthy relationship. I will never understand a woman's need to be put in her place. Sure I can stand up for myself but why should I even be thinking about that with somebody I love and supposedly loves me.
You'reasian Posted May 2, 2009 Posted May 2, 2009 It seems that for many women it is pretty much rocket science to have a happy and healthy relationship. I will never understand a woman's need to be put in her place. Sure I can stand up for myself but why should I even be thinking about that with somebody I love and supposedly loves me. Don't ask why. Just accept it lol
refurb Posted May 2, 2009 Posted May 2, 2009 Just had to comment on this as well, again I agree. Have a friend who had a long-term partner, who was malleable and did what she wanted, but she didn't seem happy and nor did he. She eventually left him for another guy. She said what I love about him is that he stands up to me, won't take any crap from me or let me boss him around. By not allowing her to walk all over him, he had her respect and let's face it, who can truly love someone if you can't respect them? That kind screams "Look for a father figure", don't you think? RF
Woggle Posted May 2, 2009 Posted May 2, 2009 Don't ask why. Just accept it lol I don't accept it because I found a woman who knows how to have a healthy relationship.
BobSacamento Posted May 2, 2009 Posted May 2, 2009 I always went with the idea of being a nice guy but not letting them know your a nice guy. The goal of this - not attracting high maintenance princess'. So I guess to answer the threads OP a nice guy's type would be the high maintenance woman.
Taramere Posted May 3, 2009 Posted May 3, 2009 I have found that many of these ballbusting super independent types secretly have fantasies of a man that can stand up to them. They just melt when they meet their match. When a man won't take their crap they become attracted. Mental strength and independence are admirable qualities in men and in women. Why wouldn't a strong woman want a man who's as mentally strong as (or stronger than) herself? If she admires intellect, strength of character and independence, then of course she's going to prefer men who display these traits. I would think that a genuinely strong man would be glad to find a woman who shared his values. I can't fathom the notion that any genuinely strong, intelligent and independent woman would want to be with a man who dismissed those values as "crap". Surely people look for others who share their values and encourage them to be the best they can be, rather than deriding and trying to destroy the best aspects of them?
paddington bear Posted May 3, 2009 Posted May 3, 2009 That kind screams "Look for a father figure", don't you think? RF Actually now you mention it, her beloved dad died a few months before she met this new guy. The thing is, she's loyal, determined, confident, she knows what she wants and gets what she wants, without stepping over other people to get it, might I add. My point is, she's well aware of what she's like, and is unapologetic about who she is, as all of us should be. I think a forceful personality can whip up and whirl away someone not so stong only for both parties to realise later that they are incompatible. The quieter, submissive half feels dominated and the more dominating half feels like they have to do all the work, make all the decisions. No one wants to really 'run the show' they want an equal partnership, so when her boyfriend 'stands up to her' it is more that he, like her, knows his own mind, own wants, own needs and won't allow her to make him deviate from that and vice versa. It's an equal partnership based on similar personalities, which compliment each other. I don't see anything wrong with it, so long as both are happy. And I agree with what Taramere wrote above.
lino Posted May 3, 2009 Posted May 3, 2009 In my experience as a nice guy, the girls that I've attracted in the past have been ones that used me as a 'stepping stone' to get to what they really wanted
carhill Posted May 3, 2009 Posted May 3, 2009 1. Jealousy maneuver 2. Time marker - part of the weak branch theory (aka "stepping stone") 3. Exit strategy 4. Emotional whore 5. Shopping buddy I can go on
jerbear Posted May 3, 2009 Posted May 3, 2009 Well it does take a certain girl to be attracted to a nice guy, and usually its the one that has dated many aholes and just finally wants a nice guy who isn't too much of a pushover but you must take the better of both sides and use it to help your advantage. I'm finding I get along alot better with ones that have been smoked before in past relationships, but if a nice guy did have a better chance with a certain type of girl which would that be....honestly I don't know if it is the nice girl that matches with him (thats what most would think)Buuuutt...From what i've seen it's the hardcore party girls and rebellious ones that are used to guys coming on to them and wanting to sleep with them all the time....that always seem to want to keep me around funny as it may sound, but i don't know maybe its just a connection that is part of the "exception" of course I'm nice but not a pushover. But id like to hear your thoughts A few thoughts:Carry a whip around and be a domBe yourself and the nice guy may get itLook for the one in the corner
wierdmunky Posted May 3, 2009 Posted May 3, 2009 I wished nice guys would just show more of their personality, and what they actually want. Being nice covers all the areas of "I'm not going to be an a.hole to you, and I don't need to be" but then after than then what. Some nice guys I felt like were a little too occupied of being that perfect guy. Next thing I know I'm falling for an ideal, and not getting to know someone enough. If your nice your nice, you don't have to try to be "extra".
You'reasian Posted May 3, 2009 Posted May 3, 2009 I wished nice guys would just show more of their personality, and what they actually want. Being nice covers all the areas of "I'm not going to be an a.hole to you, and I don't need to be" but then after than then what. Some nice guys I felt like were a little too occupied of being that perfect guy. Next thing I know I'm falling for an ideal, and not getting to know someone enough. If your nice your nice, you don't have to try to be "extra". Maybe the guys you were with were just really nice, decent guys Either way, if you think the guy was being too nice - he was either a doormat or just didn't have that level of raw, roughness that you need.
SoulSearch_CO Posted May 3, 2009 Posted May 3, 2009 I don't get it - is there no gray area? Because I'd say my XH was a wolf in sheep's clothing. He APPEARED to be a nice guy, but deep down I think he'd be happier as a partier, or "bad boy." My BF now IS a nice guy. He treats me really well, we communicate great, he takes care of me, he is emotionally available (although not over-emotional at all), he does nice things for me, he shows concern when I'm having to drive a long distance, etc. BUT - there is no way in hell he would put up with ME being a jerk. If I were to chew him out in public, he'd probably walk off and leave me there...driving off in his truck. And no - he would not come back. I am not even close to a party-girl. I was wronged in my relationship past, but nowhere near "broken." If anything, my past taught me better ways to relate in future relationships. I'm grateful for what I have learned. We both treat each other well. And Fishtaco is right - you'd better find somebody on LS to date. Everybody else out there is ****-crazy.
Yamaha Posted May 3, 2009 Posted May 3, 2009 Nice guys need to have criteria for dating and if the gal doesn't meet your needs, end the dating. Many nice guys hang on when they really have a problem with the person but don't want to rock the boat in case she might give him sex. There are other women out there and YOU are not going to like everyone of them. Find the gal that meets your needs in EVERY way.
Trialbyfire Posted May 3, 2009 Posted May 3, 2009 Nice guys need to have criteria for dating and if the gal doesn't meet your needs, end the dating. Many nice guys hang on when they really have a problem with the person but don't want to rock the boat in case she might give him sex. There are other women out there and YOU are not going to like everyone of them. Find the gal that meets your needs in EVERY way.Manipulative, wouldn't you say? I do agree that if someone isn't meeting your needs, get out sooner, rather than later. Just do it in a mature and respectful manner. This is applicable to both genders.
7117 Posted May 4, 2009 Posted May 4, 2009 As the saying says nice guys finish last is about the most truthful thing I have ever heard.Anytime I have went after a girl that I liked and got her was because of my tough guy roll I played.Anytime I have tried the I like you so much let me take you out open the door meet your parents I have been waiting for a response to the 5 voice mails I left on your phone.Most not all of girls like the bad boy or really as I should call them *******s.
39388 Posted May 4, 2009 Posted May 4, 2009 As the saying says nice guys finish last is about the most truthful thing I have ever heard.Anytime I have went after a girl that I liked and got her was because of my tough guy roll I played.Anytime I have tried the I like you so much let me take you out open the door meet your parents I have been waiting for a response to the 5 voice mails I left on your phone.Most not all of girls like the bad boy or really as I should call them *******s. Do you mean nice guy or doormat? Doormats finish last as I know so well, but do you find that applies to nice guys that are not doormats?
Taramere Posted May 4, 2009 Posted May 4, 2009 Do you mean nice guy or doormat? Doormats finish last as I know so well, but do you find that applies to nice guys that are not doormats? To describe someone as nice is such a write off really. If you genuinely admire someone, there's always a better way of describing them than "nice". Whether it's that you think they're genuinely kind, or that you admire their consistency or respect them for their courage and honesty. Anyone who genuinely believes that they're finishing last because of their qualities rather than because of their weaknesses, needs to remove themselves from that environment which is serving them so badly. Or maybe just from the company of those people who don't share their values. If they won't do that because they desperately want the validation of the people who keep rejecting their qualities and values, then that suggests some personal conflict. One that might be a painful and difficult thing to address. Perhaps the essence of the Nice Guy/Girl is that they're not equipped to face up to conflict (especially their own internal ones)....and that's why they remain stuck forever in victim mode, and at the mercy of leeches and persecutors.
39388 Posted May 4, 2009 Posted May 4, 2009 If they won't do that because they desperately want the validation of the people who keep rejecting their qualities and values, then that suggests some personal conflict. One that might be a painful and difficult thing to address. Perhaps the essence of the Nice Guy/Girl is that they're not equipped to face up to conflict (especially their own internal ones)....and that's why they remain stuck forever in victim mode, and at the mercy of leeches and persecutors. Isn't a doormat somebody who is not equipped to handle conflict and is in victim mode all the time? A doormat can be extremely passive agressive and thinks they are a "nice guy". Many posts on here confirm most people avoid doormats, as was my experience when I was a quite the doormat for many years. From what I read on here a "nice guy" is not necessarily a doormat and some of them can stand up to others when necessary, rather than get taken advantage of. However they don't usually fight or argue when there is no reason. What still confuses me is whether most women find non doormat nice guys undesirable.
carhill Posted May 4, 2009 Posted May 4, 2009 What still confuses me is whether most women find non doormat nice guys undesirable. Undesirable for banging Not globally undesirable...
Taramere Posted May 4, 2009 Posted May 4, 2009 From what I read on here a "nice guy" is not necessarily a doormat and some of them can stand up to others when necessary, rather than get taken advantage of. However they don't usually fight or argue when there is no reason. If you don't see a useful purpose to be had from arguing with a particular person, then it makes sense to refuse to argue. What still confuses me is whether most women find non doormat nice guys undesirable. You'd have to conduct a poll of most women, and you'd have to believe that they were giving truthful answers. Or you could debate the topic with other men, and form a view based on their opinions and experiences....bearing in mind that the guys who contribute most to those debates won't necessarily be the ones who are successful with women in real life.
Yamaha Posted May 4, 2009 Posted May 4, 2009 What still confuses me is whether most women find non doormat nice guys undesirable Women want drama and the roller coaster ride. If you can't provide this then she isn't attracted to you in a sexual way. Nice guys are stable and predictable so they are good for conversation but bad for f*cking.
carhill Posted May 4, 2009 Posted May 4, 2009 There's absolutely nothing worse than a guy who shows up on time for dates and calls when he says he will. Epitome of a nice guy and epitaph of any possibility for an intimate relationship. As an older man, I'm finding the more I piss women off, the more they hang around. Since I'm crabbier now anyway, perhaps in part due to resentment for all those years of being a stable, honorable and perhaps predictable guy, it's interesting how life works out
monkey00 Posted May 4, 2009 Posted May 4, 2009 Women want drama and the roller coaster ride. If you can't provide this then she isn't attracted to you in a sexual way. Nice guys are stable and predictable so they are good for conversation but bad for f*cking. Exactly, look at all the threads here that women make about a guy not calling them (when they said they would).
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