I lied to OW

[tami-chan]

Just wanted to add that when the woman sent the email, I looked at all the previous correspondence between them. Nothing from my H that would raise a flag...She emailed him quite often and her messages had started to take on that "personal" touch - like, "I saw your photos and you looked sooo handsome"

 

My H's response:

 

"Hey, thank you so much for all the work you did at the fund raiser!

You are a real doll to volunteer your time.

I look forward to seeing you at the next event. "

 

Thats how he talks, especially to people he hardly knows. Its generic blather.

 

She took that as flirting with her.

 

She was "crushing" on him, which is fine by me...but she took friendliness as flirting because she wanted to.

 

 

and of course, you husband was totally offended by it, right? so I assume he tried to put her on her right place? Say, by responding: "oh thank you, that picture is also one of my beautiful wife's favorite"

[Owl]

If someone was going around telling people, lying, that *your* wife was whoring it up with many men would that not be disrespectful to you, your wife and your marriage? Assuming people believed the lie.

 

Went back reread my post and it was unclear. I meant this woman's marriage. To the rest post 140.

 

 

Yup, he's not affair material. He never once cheated on 2sure. How many other impacts do you need? From the OP.

 

OK...so maybe I've totally misunderstood your position on this.

 

What you're trying to point out is that 2Sure's actions were disrespectful to her own marriage, to her own husband...not that her actions were disrespectful to OW or OW's marriage?

 

I've been working under the concept that you were trying to state that 2Sure was being disrespectful to OW and OW's marriage with her actions.

 

Perhaps that's the source of our disconnect?

[2sure]

I dunno, maybe it was talk of Karma , which is important to me.

I think Tami Chan is focusing not so much on the event itself - but MY part in it regarding my own Karma. She is just WAY more into the technicalities of it than I feel is necessary in my life.

 

And thats ok. Like I said, most of what I know about Karma is taken from the TV show "My Name Is Earl" .

[carhill]

Out of respect to Mr. T's current situation, I can gently suggest that he be a bit less "friendly" with people, especially women, considering his position and attractiveness. This same advice would apply to an attractive married woman who is friendly and refers to men as "honey" and "dear". The words and tone can be taken in a way which is not appropriate. I think it's respectful of a married person not to use such tools while standing behind the shield of their marriage.

 

As far as the lie is concerned, I know I would've regretted saying or doing anything to hurt an innocent third party, in this case the H of the potential (not actual) OW. YMMV...

[2sure]

Not for nothing - H is Italian, with almost every stereotype that involves. Asking him not to say "doll" or "honey" would be like telling him to stop urinating. I mean, he would if he could. He uses it more often when he doesnt remember first names. He never uses it with his staff.

 

Most of his friendliness is just par for the course as part of his glad handing job. to be honest, as a marketing tool , it seems to have some merit. Just sometimes, like this example, ...its the wrong type of market!

[carhill]

Asking him not to say "doll" or "honey" would be like telling him to stop urinating. I mean, he would if he could.

Yes, I surmised that. There is no intent on his part, but it is perception that has caused and likely will continue to cause "misunderstandings". I'm a firm believer that we are not responsible for others feelings, but it is instructive for us to be aware of the effects of our words and actions and adjust as appropriate. I see this in your analysis of your words and actions in your OP. Reflection has been valuable.

 

Hope the convalescing is going well

[NoIDidn't]

Seems to me the ow infected her own marriage by flirting with another woman's husband. Seems also that she not only had little respect for 2sure's marriage, but absolutely no respect for her own or her H. JMO.

 

I agree. Whatever happened in her marriage was her own doing. She had the option of asking her husband directly if she had a suspicion of such. Its quite likely that her own actions, inactions, insecurities and other things drove her H away.

 

None of this lands on 2sure's door. But its interesting to see read the responses of those that think it does. Oh well.

[Hi.P.O'Crit]

OK...so maybe I've totally misunderstood your position on this.

 

What you're trying to point out is that 2Sure's actions were disrespectful to her own marriage, to her own husband...not that her actions were disrespectful to OW or OW's marriage?

 

I've been working under the concept that you were trying to state that 2Sure was being disrespectful to OW and OW's marriage with her actions.

 

Perhaps that's the source of our disconnect?

 

Nope, you were correct in the first place. Not sure where or how I confused you.

 

I understand that the lie occurred at a time when 2sure was not in a good place emotionally, in her marriage. When this woman called to inform 2sure of her impending divorce she stated that the lie fueled a paranoia that she felt contributed to the fall of her marriage. 2sure apologized. All good, right? Not in my opinion.

 

It's been my impression of this forum that many here try to save marriages. At least those that are salvageable. So why doesn't 2sure call this woman's husband and tell of the lie? I realize it is highly improbable that it will save it but it may give him reason to attempt reconciliation. Without it he is making a decision without all information. That is something I've seen posted on here a lot.

 

2sure doesn't want to lie to this woman's husband, the reason for the lie, and she shouldn't. But perhaps this woman has already considered that and is willing to attempt the long shot of saving her marriage. But 2sure never questioned her on that. So 2sure may never know.

 

Just because none of us here know the particulars of this woman's marriage doesn't mean that we should condone the ending of it. That is what this forum is for isn't it?

[NoIDidn't]

Nope, you were correct in the first place. Not sure where or how I confused you.

 

I understand that the lie occurred at a time when 2sure was not in a good place emotionally, in her marriage. When this woman called to inform 2sure of her impending divorce she stated that the lie fueled a paranoia that she felt contributed to the fall of her marriage. 2sure apologized. All good, right? Not in my opinion.

 

It's been my impression of this forum that many here try to save marriages. At least those that are salvageable. So why doesn't 2sure call this woman's husband and tell of the lie? I realize it is highly improbable that it will save it but it may give him reason to attempt reconciliation. Without it he is making a decision without all information. That is something I've seen posted on here a lot.

 

2sure doesn't want to lie to this woman's husband, the reason for the lie, and she shouldn't. But perhaps this woman has already considered that and is willing to attempt the long shot of saving her marriage. But 2sure never questioned her on that. So 2sure may never know.

 

Just because none of us here know the particulars of this woman's marriage doesn't mean that we should condone the ending of it. That is what this forum is for isn't it?

 

Now this I can understand based on what is usually said in this forum. But my only problem with this logic is that its not likely to help once he finds out why she told the lie. Its only going to further push him along in his desire for a divorce. What man wants to hear that his STBXW was flirting with another man when that man's W made a statement to his STBX that may have made her paranoid?

 

I just don't see it as helpful. I can certainly concede that 2sure's H just wants to stuff it and not dredge up the shame and pain of that time period, but I don't see how talking to her H is helpful in the manner that she thinks it is. Not to mention, no one here knows the reasons for the divorce. So her talking to him is not actually in the best interest of that marriage, IMO.

[Hi.P.O'Crit]

The way I see it is that none of us here has the right to determine what this husband should know. It is a bad, well somewhat, assumption to believe that it will drive him further away.

 

What I see is that many here expected her to react rationally to the lie. But how many times do we see the exact opposite here? The paranoia fueled by, at least in part, the lie further eroded the marriage. Rather than begin a dialog between her and her husband, it did the opposite. Which was foreseeable, considering that they were probably already distant. Why else for the flirting?

 

This is where I think 2sure bears a little responsibility.

 

EDIT: Besides, as i posted previously. This woman may be looking for a long shot at saving her marriage.

[NoIDidn't]

The way I see it is that none of us here has the right to determine what this husband should know. It is a bad, well somewhat, assumption to believe that it will drive him further away.

 

What I see is that many here expected her to react rationally to the lie. But how many times do we see the exact opposite here? The paranoia fueled by, at least in part, the lie further eroded the marriage. Rather than begin a dialog between her and her husband, it did the opposite. Which was foreseeable, considering that they were probably already distant. Why else for the flirting?

 

This is where I think 2sure bears a little responsibility.

 

EDIT: Besides, as i posted previously. This woman may be looking for a long shot at saving her marriage.

 

But aren't you now making 2sure responsible for this woman's marriage? I disagree with that line of thinking.

 

If, as you say, the marriage was already distant and hence the reason for the flirting - then I say, the marriage was already on the rocks and would've ended up in the same place without the lie.

 

If this woman thinks that having her flirting revealed just to get 2sure to tell him where she got the paranoia from will save her marriage, she is looking for far more than a long shot. She's looking for a miracle.

 

I don't think that 2sure needs to speak with this woman's H. This woman needs to do that for herself. If her H is intent on getting a D, I don't think having the Pope talk to him is going to change his mind.

[Hi.P.O'Crit]

But aren't you now making 2sure responsible for this woman's marriage? I disagree with that line of thinking.

 

That's why I wrote "little responsibility". Could be very little. The lie was a corrosive element.

 

If, as you say, the marriage was already distant and hence the reason for the flirting - then I say, the marriage was already on the rocks and would've ended up in the same place without the lie.

 

But you're making an assumption that their divorce was inevitable. By that logic we shouldn't demonize OM/OW when they enter into an affair because the marriage was already on the rocks. They would've ended in divorce anyway, no harm no foul.

 

If this woman thinks that having her flirting revealed just to get 2sure to tell him where she got the paranoia from will save her marriage, she is looking for far more than a long shot. She's looking for a miracle.

 

Well long shots are miracles. Hail Mary pass with 3 seconds, 100 yards to go and down by 5. All else failed, why not?

 

I don't think that 2sure needs to speak with this woman's H. This woman needs to do that for herself. If her H is intent on getting a D, I don't think having the Pope talk to him is going to change his mind.

 

And I think that is too much assumption. The paranoia may have him thinking she's crazy. Hearing it from a third party, that has no vested interest, may give him reason to reconsider reconciliation. Or at least another shot at MC.

 

I'm not saying that it will but what does it cost 2sure? A few minutes maybe half an hour on the phone.

 

At least at that this woman will be able to say "I gave it every shot I had. He knows everything and still wants the D." Without it, who knows?

 

The other thing is that everyone here is assuming that it was inevitable that this woman would cheat with 2sure's husband. Another assumption.

[NoIDidn't]

That's why I wrote "little responsibility". Could be very little. The lie was a corrosive element.

 

Agree and disagree. The corrosive element wasn't the lie, but her (the other W) actions that preceded it.

 

 

But you're making an assumption that their divorce was inevitable. By that logic we shouldn't demonize OM/OW when they enter into an affair because the marriage was already on the rocks. They would've ended in divorce anyway, no harm no foul.

 

Nope. That would be your assumption. I don't think this woman's marriage would have ended in divorce anyway. I was responding to your assumption that there was already distance in the marriage. Distance doesn't mean divorce is inevitable, but you seemed think it rationalized the flirting.

 

 

Well long shots are miracles. Hail Mary pass with 3 seconds, 100 yards to go and down by 5. All else failed, why not?

 

Can't disagree with this. But I don't see why 2sure is being held to a standard that noone else would hold themselves to. Would you go back to the last person you told a lie to and apologize to everyone that that lie may have affected in their life? I wouldn't.

 

And I think that is too much assumption. The paranoia may have him thinking she's crazy. Hearing it from a third party, that has no vested interest, may give him reason to reconsider reconciliation. Or at least another shot at MC.

 

I'm not saying that it will but what does it cost 2sure? A few minutes maybe half an hour on the phone.

 

At least at that this woman will be able to say "I gave it every shot I had. He knows everything and still wants the D." Without it, who knows?

 

The other thing is that everyone here is assuming that it was inevitable that this woman would cheat with 2sure's husband. Another assumption.

 

I think you are making the most assumptions here. I am certainly not operating off the assumption that cheating would have ensued. Nothing that 2sure said about the incident even led to that conclusion. The only assumption I am making is that the woman was willfully involving herself in another's marriage and not worth much more than an apology - which she has already gotten.

 

You raise some valid points, but not enough to merit 2sure being responsible for saving this woman's marriage. Maybe the woman IS crazy.

[Hi.P.O'Crit]

Agree and disagree. The corrosive element wasn't the lie, but her (the other W) actions that preceded it.

 

Worded that wrong. The lie fueled the paranoia which was a corrosive element, one of other possible elements.

 

Nope. That would be your assumption. I don't think this woman's marriage would have ended in divorce anyway. I was responding to your assumption that there was already distance in the marriage. Distance doesn't mean divorce is inevitable, but you seemed think it rationalized the flirting.

 

No. As I posted previously. The flirting was a symptom of an eroding marriage. I said that distance may have been probable. Your previous post.

 

If, as you say, the marriage was already distant and hence the reason for the flirting - then I say, the marriage was already on the rocks and would've ended up in the same place without the lie.

 

How can it end up being distant? They are now getting a divorce. This is the end.

 

Can't disagree with this. But I don't see why 2sure is being held to a standard that noone else would hold themselves to. Would you go back to the last person you told a lie to and apologize to everyone that that lie may have affected in their life? I wouldn't.

 

But this isn't about everyone 2sure, me or you has lied to. It's about one person, one lie. If I had been in 2sure's shoes knowing that my lie may have had a negative effect on their marriage I think I would. Like I said what does it cost? A half an hour at most on the phone.

[NoIDidn't]

But this isn't about everyone 2sure' date=' me or you has lied to. It's about one person, one lie. If I had been in 2sure's shoes knowing that my lie [b']may[/b] have had a negative effect on their marriage I think I would. Like I said what does it cost? A half an hour at most on the phone.

 

This is the only part that I have mild agreement with you on. It doesn't really cost 2sure anything to speak to him, I just disagree with holding her to it. Most people wouldn't do it. So why would anyone expect her to do something they themselves wouldn't.

 

It won't cost her anything, but she's already spoken to her H and they've agreed not to get involved any further.

 

I figure that's the end of it, for them. Its not their divorce.

 

But I do agree that speaking to this woman's H is a little thing, if she was willing to be bothered with it. Quite frankly, though, if the woman hadn't started the whole thing, who's to say it would've gone down like this?

[Reggie]

Best to have no contact with a woman and her STBXH, as the woman threatened her marriage.

It's extremely farfetched and simplistic to think that this woman's worry about her husband's cheating played any role in her marriage's demise. Why can't she simply tell her husband that a woman whose husband she was chasing told her a lie( probably because , due to her past untrustorthiness in chasing guys, he may not believe her.)

[ForumFool]

That's why I wrote "little responsibility". Could be very little. The lie was a corrosive element.

 

 

 

But you're making an assumption that their divorce was inevitable. By that logic we shouldn't demonize OM/OW when they enter into an affair because the marriage was already on the rocks. They would've ended in divorce anyway, no harm no foul.

 

 

 

Well long shots are miracles. Hail Mary pass with 3 seconds, 100 yards to go and down by 5. All else failed, why not?

 

 

 

And I think that is too much assumption. The paranoia may have him thinking she's crazy. Hearing it from a third party, that has no vested interest, may give him reason to reconsider reconciliation. Or at least another shot at MC.

 

I'm not saying that it will but what does it cost 2sure? A few minutes maybe half an hour on the phone.

 

At least at that this woman will be able to say "I gave it every shot I had. He knows everything and still wants the D." Without it, who knows?

 

The other thing is that everyone here is assuming that it was inevitable that this woman would cheat with 2sure's husband. Another assumption.

 

 

HIPO GREAT posting ....I am however NOT one of the one's who believes this woman would have cheated..I posted that PAGES back....we can't know....But we do know 2sure lied.....she slandered the husband or if one is christian she bore false witness against him. She owes HIM the apology . I also saw someone post most people would not have apolozied or would speak with the husband but I do not agree...MANY would have and I would have.

 

I would have said to the woman ...I am sorry I was very upset when I saw your letters and in a bad spot in my marriage and I screwed up and said that....I made it up....you're flirting and letters hurt me.....sure I will talk with your husband...but you DO realize it will come out why I lied.......I am betting the woman knew that ..she has most likely heard him tell her she's paranoid when she said some lady said he cheated on her.....sigh ...2sure I REALLY do wish you the best but man I feel you are so wrong here and can MAYBE help right some of the wrong you did with your lies about an innocent person to ALL of this.

 

Also any man who has been a cheat and calls women honey and sweetie and tells them he can't wait to see them..or looks forward to it ...would be under suspicion from me..I am now wondering if so called OW and 2sure's hubby did something more than we know )(I pray not 2S I too am a BW) ...because I grew up with a very ethnic crowd mostly Italian and Greek and.. no ....it is not something they can't help saying. Add to that this man is working with people and could be sued for sexual harassment ..The team of lawyers where my husband (el-creepazoid) worked had classes where they told the men what could and could NOT be said.. this would also apply to the charity work etc, My best and HIPO your posts speak for me and are very dead on.

[Reggie]

I think it is extremely likely the woman was trying to have an affair with 2sures H.The e-mail is pretty solid evidence. As such, this woman deserved what she got . Her paranoia is projection.

[NoIDidn't]

I think it is extremely likely the woman was trying to have an affair with 2sures H.The e-mail is pretty solid evidence. As such, this woman deserved what she got . Her paranoia is projection.

 

That's the way I took it too.

 

She didn't drive her H away with simple paranoia because she heard that he was cheating. She was attempting to cheat and was already paranoid that he might.

 

In fact, 2sure doesn't even know why they are getting divorced. For all we know, she cheated, he found out, and he left because of it. If he is pushing for the divorce, its highly likely that she cheated and is realizing what she was risking now.

 

I hate to say it, but its harder than pulling teeth to get a cheating man to divorce his W. Ask any OW. If this man wants the divorce, its likely he's done with his W and whatever she was like in the marriage. 2sure would be speaking to him for naught, IMO.

[bentnotbroken]

It's possible he has found someone else. Mr. Messy always accused me of cheating, because I worked out. He said I must be trying to impress someone:eek:never mind I had health issues that I was trying hard to control with diet and exercise. So maybe the ow was always accusing her H of cheating.

[Lishy]

What a load of twaddle!

 

2sure has no one to apologise to! No one at all!

 

That woman would have wrecked her marriage if she was given the green light, she is lucky it was 2sures hubby and not mine, I would have done far worse!

 

She got what she deserved! Sod all this christianity rubbish, you mess with someones elses partner, you get burned!

[2sure]

No, honestly I know for sure H had nothing going on with this woman...she wasnt even on his radar. I knew it at the time, I lied to her because I was still smarting from his previous indiscretion.

 

And yes - as a Christian I feel the person most wronged by my lie was the husband. Mostly because I should have told him his wife solicited my H right from the get go. The reason I didnt was because I wasnt genuinely threatened. But he was, by his wife, he just didnt know it.

 

As to her asking me to speak to him. I told her I lied, and I did apologize sincerely to her. I told her that at this point my telling her husband WHY I lied didnt seem like a good idea for anyone and I didnt want to go further with this. In saying that, I'm sure she understood that if I spoke to her H , I would tell him the WHY. So - she dropped it.

 

I have been able to obtain her H's email address and am considering sending him both the email and my apology. Two things stop me:

1. My H really doesn't want "US" to be involved in this nonsense in any way. We make efforts to distance ourselves from these kinds of issues for good reason. H is a public servant , and people eat this crap up. 2. What if my sending the email, and it blows up in his wife's face? Surely if they are separated - this would be a final nail.

[Lishy]

2sure, dont send a thing, it would defo make things worse!

 

Just forget it, she got off light and you did not ruin her marriage! She was a cheat anyway and you do not know what goes on behind closed doors.

 

Look out for you and your own! Life is hard enough without worrying about stranger's lives!

[Hi.P.O'Crit]

Throughout this thread there seems to have been a casual disregard to how this affected both parties in the marriage. Many of the posts kept repeating to forget it, nothing to apologize for, her marriage was already in trouble she got what she deserved.

 

I never saw one indication to negate this thought, at least from those in support of your actions, till this.

 

I have been able to obtain her H's email address and am considering sending him both the email and my apology.

 

As to her shutting up. It may be that she understood what you were thinking. It's also possible that given her previous experience with you she thought you to be a headstrong woman that once you made up your mind there is no changing it.

 

Also partially, maybe mostly, agree with your second reason for emailing the husband. But as I've mentioned before, maybe you should ask this woman if she really wants you to contact her husband. Tell her that it may very well be the final nail. Then proceed with a clear conscience. Which ever way you choose.

 

I will say that I am a former OM. For the past few years I have been trying to change my way of thinking, think I'm almost there. Previously I would've rationalized/justified that if she was approaching me her relationship was already dead so why not? It is my view that many on here have done the same with regard to this lie. I know this view is not shared. I know that I'm making an analogous connection that is very slim. But this thread makes me wonder.

 

Why the hell am I trying to change my way of thinking when everyone will try to rationalize/justify their affect, possibly negative, on a relationship? Regardless of the present condition of the relationship.

 

As to this.

 

Look out for you and your own! Life is hard enough without worrying about stranger's lives!

 

I thought that's why this forum existed. If we only look out for ourselves why bother helping anyone, mostly newbies, who post here?

 

EDIT: I am really trying to understand how most on here can dismiss this so casually.

[Lishy]

Hip, offering verbal advice to strangers on an internet forum is nothing like helping the woman who tried to steal your husband! Come on! Get a grip! Not only would she be interfering, it could cause problems in her own marriage all over again!

 

She lied to the woman because the woman tried to steal her hubby and I think she deserved that, and more! She got off lightly!

 

A year later the womans marriage fails, would that have anything to do with the fact that the woman could not have been happy a year before when she tried to start an affair or because a complete stranger told her that her husband was a cheat?

 

Who cares? Its her marriage and she was far from blameless

 

Your argument sucks Hip!