Are such relationships doomed to fail?

[pikachu67]

Hi, I am in a 2 year relationship with a married man with kids and wife. I am divorced. He was my former boss and started to pursue me not long after he joined the company. I was with the company for 10 years when he arrived.

 

I knew he was married but I couldnt help falling in love with him. He seemed everything that I had wanted in a husband, so sweet, caring and loving. He had promised me that he would be with me after the children has sat for their final exams even if he couldnt get a divorce as he was so sure he only wanted me. He has even brought me home to see his parents to acknowledge our relationship. I thought it was a very genuine and sincere action on his part to show me that he cared that much for me to show me off to his parents. I believed him when he said his relationship with his wife was getting stale. We were inseparable until lately. He has now gone to work overseas.

 

Lately, he's been giving me mixed signals. His wife visits him very often and I cant help thinking their relationship is getting better whereas me and him is deteriorating. He refrains from talking about the future nowadays and no longer assures me that there is any future together as he will not do anything within the next two years due to his children's exams. I am suffering so much because I cry so much over him whenever he turns nasty and accuses me of anything under the sun just to make me miserable. At other times, he is so sweet and will ask me for forgiveness for being such a difficult man to please. I am very confused as to why he has changed. I have never pestered him to dump his wife or family. he was the one who made such promises in the beginning. And now, just when i have started to trust him and believe in him and believe there is a future, he's slowly turning the other way.

 

I truly love him and I know he truly cares for me too. And I feel terrible towards the wife. She knows about us due to his carelessness but that has made her even stronger to pull him back. I know I have no right to feel jealous but I am only human. I hate myself for being in this situation. I want to break it off but I cant bring myself to do it. Why do women in our situation get blamed when such things happen? Why is it never the fault of the man or the wife who neglected the husband until he has to seek love elsewhere? We have gotten into many fights and each time, he would call it quits and i would try to patch things up. I feel very drained, tired and so taken for a ride. Deep down in me I know he still loves me but he wont leave the wife for me. Whenever she suspects that he's with me, he will go all out to pacify her. But when it's my turn to feel "paranoid" whether his feelings for me has changed, he would shut me off and not bother about me, so different from the way he treats his wife. But he will always tell me that no matter what he will never let me go even if the wife were to give him an ultimatum. I am confused as to what he means by this but doesnt want to assure me of a future together?

 

Are such relationships doomed to fail? Am i being too naive to think that we can still work out? Both of us are already in our forties (shame on us!). Sigh!!!!!

[2sure]

Many MM are called "cake eaters" because they really want to keep both relationships - their wife and OW. They seem unable to commit or make a decision, but all of that drama simply disguises the fact that what they want is both. The attention form both women, the validation that they are worth it from both women.

 

But in your case, your MM has added a little twist. He doesn't just like the extra attention and validation....he likes to have you both around to treat like crap. I know that sounds harsh, but thats the way it is.

 

 

Its the ultimate "unconditional love".

[Lucky_One]

We have gotten into many fights and each time, he would call it quits and i would try to patch things up. ....But he will always tell me that no matter what he will never let me go even if the wife were to give him an ultimatum.

 

Sounds like he was willing to give you up, but you would go after him until he gave in on seeing you again.

 

 

He has now gone to work overseas....Lately, he's been giving me mixed signals. His wife visits him very often.

 

How often do you go to visit him? How often do you talk? His wife going to visit is a sure indication that he has no plans to leave the marriage and that they are actively behaving as man and wife.

 

She knows about us due to his carelessness but that has made her even stronger to pull him back....Whenever she suspects that he's with me, he will go all out to pacify her. But when it's my turn to feel "paranoid" whether his feelings for me has changed, he would shut me off and not bother about me, so different from the way he treats his wife.

 

She KNEW about you. I suspect that he has told her that the EMA is over, that he never cared for you, that he was wrong and is so so so sorry, and that he will do anything it takes to keep her happy

 

When a man goes all out to pacify a woman but neglects to nurture a second woman, you can count on it that the first woman is the one that he is caring for more and is more concerned with and is more determined to be with.

 

Some affairs DO "work out" in that the affair partners end up together with the MP divorced. But many do not. I suspect this one will not.

[jwi71]

I knew he was married but I couldnt help falling in love with him.

 

Sure you can. If you are NOT in control of yourself then who is?

What I would like to you consider is what ACTIONS you both undertook to begin this A...that's the CHOICE to be in the A...it didn't just happen.

 

 

He seemed everything that I had wanted in a husband, so sweet, caring and loving. He had promised me that he would be with me after the children has sat for their final exams even if he couldnt get a divorce as he was so sure he only wanted me. He has even brought me home to see his parents to acknowledge our relationship. I thought it was a very genuine and sincere action on his part to show me that he cared that much for me to show me off to his parents. I believed him when he said his relationship with his wife was getting stale. We were inseparable until lately. He has now gone to work overseas.

Everything? You sure?

Again, I would like you to think that you love the IDEAL of this man rather than the fantasy. The dreams of being with are very likely to be ENTIRELY different from actually having him as your H. If you don't believe me ask his W.

 

Lately, he's been giving me mixed signals. His wife visits him very often and I cant help thinking their relationship is getting better whereas me and him is deteriorating. He refrains from talking about the future nowadays and no longer assures me that there is any future together as he will not do anything within the next two years due to his children's exams. I am suffering so much because I cry so much over him whenever he turns nasty and accuses me of anything under the sun just to make me miserable. At other times, he is so sweet and will ask me for forgiveness for being such a difficult man to please. I am very confused as to why he has changed. I have never pestered him to dump his wife or family. he was the one who made such promises in the beginning. And now, just when i have started to trust him and believe in him and believe there is a future, he's slowly turning the other way.

I bet this hot and cold behavior is normal for him but new to you.

One things cheaters are good is lying. And manipulating...so that's two. And conflict avoidance. Three. Three things cheaters are good at are lying, manipulating and conflict avoidance. No one expects the Spanish Inquisition...

 

Honestly though...this has been repeated soooo many times its sad. I don't know why you love a man who clearly places his M before you...find someone who will place YOU first.

Why do women in our situation get blamed when such things happen?

Because it IS your fault. You knew he was married when this whole thing began...and going back to the first part...you need to think about why YOU CHOSE this. This isn't an attack on you...it is simply the truth. At every opportunity to end it, you continued. At the beginning...you ALLOWED this to happen. Think about the choices and decisions YOU made that led you here.

 

Why is it never the fault of the man or the wife who neglected the husband until he has to seek love elsewhere?

I get the anger and the pain. But in this very post you even say his carelessness exposed the A. Which means he was LYING to her. How can she be blamed for that which she did NOT know existed? How is SHE to blame for HIS betrayal and subsequent lies?

 

I feel very drained, tired and so taken for a ride.

You have been. His ACTIONS prove it.

 

Deep down in me I know he still loves me but he wont leave the wife for me.

At what does that say? It means he loves HER more than you. So to claim she neglected him is starting to look thin, considering how HARD HE fights for HER. And how easily he lets you go.

 

Only to have you come crawling back, begging for him again. Talk about the mother of all ego strokes...

 

Whenever she suspects that he's with me, he will go all out to pacify her. But when it's my turn to feel "paranoid" whether his feelings for me has changed, he would shut me off and not bother about me, so different from the way he treats his wife. But he will always tell me that no matter what he will never let me go even if the wife were to give him an ultimatum. I am confused as to what he means by this but doesnt want to assure me of a future together?

To be blunt, it means he won't leave his W and will keep boinking you on the side. It also serves to keep YOU faithful to HIM. It means HE has all the power whereas normally the OW would. So he can say whatever he wants and you will still pine and beg - and the only recourse YOU have is to hope he drops by...or leave.

 

Are such relationships doomed to fail?

I think most OW and MM don't end up together. And the few that do...don't follow this pattern.

 

Am i being too naive to think that we can still work out? Both of us are already in our forties (shame on us!). Sigh!!!!!

Naive? No. Just lost, blinded by this fog you are in.

My advice...walk. He has NO reason to leave his W. Not one. And every he says is rebutted by his ACTIONS. Words are easily lies...actions less so.

 

Never contact him again

Always compare his words and actions. (I bet they don't add up).

Understand YOUR role in this...from inception to end.

Cry your tears, get angry, learn whatever lessons you can and MOVE ON.

[pparrott]

{{hugs}} you apparently love this man -

I don't have advice - but in answer to your question...

They aren't all doomed to fail. Personal situation.....Father in law - Many Many Many years ago, had an affair with his secretary - Left mother in law for said secretary....They have been happily married for almost 20 years. The mother in law - also re-married & is VERY happy as well. And they are all pretty good friends. We still celebrate holidays together as a complete family. So, there's a "success" story for ya!

 

You will probably get a lot of people here that say the ole' Once A Cheater Always A Cheater....He cheated on his wife what's to keep him from cheating on you (if you get together) - Just something to ponder.

[wildsoul]

Everything you've said makes it clear that your relationship is at a turning point, where he has taken you off the pedestal and is now testing to see how much crap you'll take. It's already gone too far and isn't going to turn around. It will most likely get worse.

 

Your entire sense of self is at risk if you stay past this point. If you think breaking up with him now is going to be hard, it will feel even harder later after your self-esteem has been lessened.

 

Many of us OW got in these affairs because we were at a low-point in our lives. I was post-divorce when I met my ex too. They way they pursue you is very powerful. Realize that they HAVE to pursue very well in order to get you to override your boundares. It's potent.

 

So you got involved with him, and agreed to give him some time to end his marriage. That was a choice on your part. Fine. But now you're seeing that he is going BACK into the marriage. That's not what you agreed to. This is worth terminating the relationship!

 

He made it clear that he won't accept ultimatums from his W about you. That's also a way of saying he won't accept them from you either. Perhaps you got that already, but it's worth underlining. He's telling you that he intends keeping you BOTH. Correct me if I'm wrong, but it doesn't sound like that's really what you thought you were agreeing to either. You were in it only if he was leaving, right?

 

This is the perfect time to cut your losses. He isn't able to deliver on what he said (or what you thought) and choose you. Let it go. Don't waste anymore time. After this point, all you're doing is wasting time that is better spent on healing, which will lead you to your next better relationship.

 

It's also PERFECT timing to break up with him while he's overseas. You won't even have to see him in person, so you'll have time to break the biochemical bond. Seriously, this is such a good time to get free!

 

You're still young and attractive. Sure, it will take some time to heal up, but go get back out there and find someone who can really deliver!

[serial muse]

Why do women in our situation get blamed when such things happen? Why is it never the fault of the man or the wife who neglected the husband until he has to seek love elsewhere?

 

Turn this around and please think clearly for a moment. Why aren't you angry at this so-called lover of yours, who gives you mixed signals, gave you promises that he has since backed down on and is clearly still involved with his wife? How do you go from knowing those facts about him - and those are the facts - to blaming his wife for his inability to act right?

 

I know you're hurting, but try to focus on what you know to be true rather than what you wish were true.

 

You wish he would leave his wife for you.

You know he's nowhere near doing that any time soon - at best it might happen in two years.

 

You wish he would keep to promises he once made.

You know he's stopped making them.

 

You wish he loved you and only you, as he once suggested he did.

You know that he has called it off with you multiple times, and despite what he says about her, he won't leave her, shuts you out and tries to pacify her rather than consoling you.

 

You wish that he would pursue you, thus convincing you that he really does love you.

You know that, instead, you have had to be the one to patch things up and pursue him - denying your very real hurt, no doubt, so as not to annoy him or alienate him further.

 

What else do you know? He spilled the beans about you, and his wife is now fighting to get him back. And he's letting her. Perhaps that's what he wanted all along. Perhaps he's just enjoying it. But none of that adds up to him being devoted to you. I'm sorry, but you need to face facts here. No doubt there are times when affairs work out well for the affair parties - but the circumstances tend to be rather different than what you've got here.

 

As for the blame issue - look, his inconsistencies and broken promises are not the fault of his wife. He's an adult and he's making choices every day. Choices that you don't like, so you're blaming them on her. I'm sure you wish very badly that he were doing this against his will. But no - they're his choices. Again: wish vs. know.

 

You aren't responsible for his choices, either, but you do bear responsibility for yours. You are actively choosing to be in this situation now. You know these facts and yet you're glossing over them or altering them in your mind because you don't like them. But you, too, are an adult. So, as an adult who ought to take responsibility for herself, you have a choice about what to do with your own life, and you should make it rather than allowing him to continue to string you along.

[Reggie]

An NPD guy and a doormat. Makes perfect sense, a match made in heaven.

[herenow]

I truly love him and I know he truly cares for me too. And I feel terrible towards the wife. She knows about us due to his carelessness but that has made her even stronger to pull him back. I know I have no right to feel jealous but I am only human. I hate myself for being in this situation. I want to break it off but I cant bring myself to do it. Why do women in our situation get blamed when such things happen? Why is it never the fault of the man or the wife who neglected the husband until he has to seek love elsewhere?

!

 

First you, and everyone else, have the right to feel however you want to feel. No one can dictate your feelings. You can love him and you can feel jealous, that is absolutely your right.

 

However, if you are going to blame his wife for the affair, why do you have a problem being blamed for your part in the triangle? Personally, I do believe that blame falls squarely on the cheater. But, you seem rather willing to place blame on others, so it's fitting that others blame you. JMO.

[LucreziaBorgia]

Unless his wife chooses to divorce him, you will never be more than the OW, and even those days will be numbered.

[bentnotbroken]

Why are you whining now? You went into this mess with your eyes wide open. You knew he was married, you know his wife knows and you know he has chosen not to leave. What's the problem?

[fooled once]

I fully agree with Bent and with serial muse.

 

You chose to get involved with a married man.

 

You chose to get involved with a liar.

 

You continue to run after him after he dumps you, time and time again.

 

He is NOT going to leave his wife. He isn't.

 

If you are willing to settle for ALWAYS coming behind his wife and his kids, then continue the affair.

 

I would hope you wouldn't.

 

I am aghast that he introduced his fling on the side to his parents. Shows how little he respects marriage and his parents.

 

Please, let him go. Next time he breaks up with you, don't go running back to him to try to get him back.

 

LET

 

HIM

 

GO

 

And why in the HELL are you blaming his WIFE???? did she make you promises? did she lie to you? did she have ANY say so in the fact that you chose to sleep with HER husband?

 

And really -- why do you believe his lies about his marriage? Do you think he would really say "hey, I totally love my wife but want to find out how much fun it would be to sneak around on the side and how long I can get my new fling to put up with this".

 

Please!!!!!

 

LET

 

HIM

 

GO

 

(hug)

[Athena]

I knew he was married but I couldnt help falling in love with him.

Hi Pikachu, I would like to respond to your text bit by bit. Firstly, this above phrase in bold -- I think differently to you. When you say you couldn't help falling in love, I think you could! It takes effort to spend enough intimate time with another person so that you get to know them, admire them, and like them. You have to be Open to intimacy, and clearly you were. You have to put in enough time to do this, and clearly you made that time, didn't you?

You made the choice to pursue a relationship with him, and to nurture your growing tender feelings of love toward him. That was your mistake. The good news is, that since it didn't 'just happen', in the future you can avoid this bad decision, and stay away from married men.

 

He seemed everything that I had wanted in a husband,

Well, honey, you skipped over the most obvious trait he had as a husband -- that of being a Cheater! Is that what you want in a husband?

 

so sweet, caring and loving. He had promised me that he would be with me after the children has sat for their final exams even if he couldnt get a divorce as he was so sure he only wanted me.

In the beginning of a relationship, any relationship but even more so with a MM and a single OW.... the man is sweet loving and caring! How else would he be able to attract the woman?

He of course, would say 'sweet nothings' to attract you, keep you, enamor you to him... and in this case he said the magic words "I will divorce my W after * event* -- (kids exams here)...."

Some MM use these sweet words and promises like an OW will use make-up to flatter her face and attract a man's interest... he said whatever he could think of at the time to get your interest! And -- apparently it worked... didn't it? Think of how you would have lost interest in him if he had told you, "I love my W and my family and I am just having some fun with you... please don't take offense but I only am in this for your admiration, ego-stroking, and affection... oh... and free sex! But I reserve the right to dump you or go cold on you anytime you are not convenient for me!"

 

He has even brought me home to see his parents to acknowledge our relationship. I thought it was a very genuine and sincere action on his part to show me that he cared that much for me to show me off to his parents. I believed him when he said his relationship with his wife was getting stale.

Sure, I believe him too when he told you his marriage was getting stale... but take a look at what that says about HIM! This is a man who doesn't have the integrity nor the stamina to work through a problem... he just runs away from it and gets busy with something else! Not exactly ideal husband material, wouldn't you say?!

The fact that he brought you to his parents house is surprising, indeed, but not in a good way -- in a bad way! What was he thinking?! Did his parents know you were the OW? What did they say to you and to him, afterwards? Was he showing you off? As in how great a catch he is to have another woman on his arm? Did they, as his parents, and the grandparents of his children condone this affair? Not only do I highly doubt this, but if they did -- then no wonder his brain is confused... look at the poor example his parents show him! Accept an affair in your child's marriage?

 

We were inseparable until lately. He has now gone to work overseas.

How convenient! He runs away from his problems! First he ran off from his W into your arms, now he runs off from you and his W, to be on his own... oh, and btw, while living overseas, the opportunity for him to have another affair on the side is now even easier for him to fit in without being detected by his W, or you.

Thing is, pikachu, no matter how Wonderful Mr. Right was in the beginning of the affair has no bearing on how he is right now... so... what do his actions tell you right now?

 

 

Lately, he's been giving me mixed signals. His wife visits him very often and I cant help thinking their relationship is getting better whereas me and him is deteriorating. He refrains from talking about the future nowadays and no longer assures me that there is any future together as he will not do anything within the next two years due to his children's exams. I am suffering so much because I cry so much over him whenever he turns nasty and accuses me of anything under the sun just to make me miserable. At other times, he is so sweet and will ask me for forgiveness for being such a difficult man to please. I am very confused as to why he has changed.

He has changed because the infatuation of your affair has worn off now. He has a change of circumstances with his W working her charms on him, with a change of job and location, and frankly the newness of your loveliness on him has worn off and he is beginning to back track.

Now what would you believe? What all his collective actions of late tell you, or his earlier actions? Or his sweet talking words... because that's all they are you know... sweet words. You gonna live off the sweetness of those sounds? Because you pretty much have nothing else right now.

 

I have never pestered him to dump his wife or family.

This is your single biggest mistake. You didn't expect anything from him, so you will get nothing (and that is correct, since he is already married to someone else!).

 

 

he was the one who made such promises in the beginning. And now, just when i have started to trust him and believe in him and believe there is a future, he's slowly turning the other way.

 

I truly love him and I know he truly cares for me too.

The affair has run its course. Its pretty much over now, just limping along, dragging your bleeding heart along the ground. Why not cut ties altogether and focus on healing yourself and finding a man who is not only single, but open to a serious relationship with you?

 

 

And I feel terrible towards the wife. She knows about us due to his carelessness but that has made her even stronger to pull him back. I know I have no right to feel jealous but I am only human. I hate myself for being in this situation. I want to break it off but I cant bring myself to do it. Why do women in our situation get blamed when such things happen? Why is it never the fault of the man or the wife who neglected the husband until he has to seek love elsewhere? We have gotten into many fights and each time, he would call it quits and i would try to patch things up. I feel very drained, tired and so taken for a ride. Deep down in me I know he still loves me but he wont leave the wife for me. Whenever she suspects that he's with me, he will go all out to pacify her. But when it's my turn to feel "paranoid" whether his feelings for me has changed, he would shut me off and not bother about me, so different from the way he treats his wife. But he will always tell me that no matter what he will never let me go even if the wife were to give him an ultimatum. I am confused as to what he means by this but doesnt want to assure me of a future together?

Ok, its tough on you. Ok he was unfair to String you along (even though you were a willing participant), ok his W may or may not have 'neglected' him, ok he used you and is to blame for the A, ok ok ok... so what do you want now? You get an absolvement and now its up to you to give him a kick up the ass and understand its the End.

 

Are such relationships doomed to fail? Am i being too naive to think that we can still work out? Both of us are already in our forties (shame on us!). Sigh!!!!!

The affair has run its course. The Bloom period is over. Now you are in the End stages.... why punish yourself any longer? You do not need His Permission to end the affair!! Just understand it's over and drop him. After all, he is allowed to change his mind, isn't he? Now it looks like he is focused on his W.

[Athena]

An NPD guy and a doormat. Makes perfect sense, a match made in heaven.

 

Hmm, and even if she wasn't a doormat before, his narcissism will turn her into one!

[Montclair0011]

pikachu67 - You sound like you are in a lot of pain and I feel bad for you. I know you don't want to hear it, but this relationship is not going to work out and you need to break it off and move on. You deserve better and he deserves to be drawn and quartered.

 

Take it from a former doormat -- get a therapist and figure out why you fall in love with such extreme jerks (because that's what this guy is even if you can't see it--which is understandable). You need to learn how to take care of your needs and establish boundaries. If you don't you will surely end up in similar situations again.

 

At least try to move on to someone else with a few less issues, maybe just a jerk who is not married. That would be an improvement. There are millions of guys out there that will treat you like crap. You don't need to hold on to this one.

[Mr. Lucky]

Am i being too naive to think that we can still work out?

Wow. He's gaslighted you, used you, lied to you, left you behind, moved overseas and gone back to his wife and you still hope that the two of you "can still work out" ???

 

Just out of curiosity, what would he have to do to discourage you?

 

Mr. Lucky

[jj33]

Pikachu you say he will never let you go. Who is he to decide? This is a bad situation causing you untold pain. Where is your sense of self preservation? RUN dont walk. Tell HIM its over.

 

And dont listen to his BS when he says no he loves you. That doesnt matter (believe me I know xMM gave me that line time and again). You just tell him that you dont want to hear from him while he is married. End of story. I had to tell xMM again and again that I dont want to hear about anything personal that all the feelings dont matter because he is married, until he finally got it. You are in a better situation in that you DONT have to speak to him or see him once you give him the boot.

 

Unless he has something to say like I am separated I filed for divorce, the rest of it is just the words of a selfish selfish man who really doesnt care about your feelings. Doesnt comprehend the pain that it causes you to hear that someone you love so much loves you too but isnt there for you. he doesnt have a clue. If he did and he really loved you, he wouldnt be putting you in this situation.

 

Its harsh but its life in the big city - you have to look after yourself because he is not looking after your best interests. He doesnt care how much pain he causes you, he doesnt care how much pain he causes his W. He only cares about himself.

 

And dont think he cares more for his W because he is trying harder to placate her - he is still cheating on her. What kind of love is that? He doesnt care for anything except what he wants when he wants it.

[OWoman]

Are such relationships doomed to fail?

 

That depends on whether you mean this:

 

I am in a 2 year relationship with a married man with kids and wife.

 

in which case I'd say, not necessarily - mine ended very happily with him leaving his (now x)W and us marrying, with the enthusiasm and support of his kids, family and everyone else. It can happen.

 

But if I look at this:

 

He refrains from talking about the future nowadays and no longer assures me that there is any future together as he will not do anything within the next two years due to his children's exams. I am suffering so much because I cry so much over him whenever he turns nasty and accuses me of anything under the sun just to make me miserable.

 

Then I'd say yes, the R you have is doomed to fail. Any man who "turns nasty and accuses (you) of anything under the sun just to make you miserable" is a nasty piece of work and unable to sustain ANYTHING but a deeply toxic, pathological relationship. And, I'm assuming, that isn't the kind you want?

 

And when I read this:

 

At other times, he is so sweet and will ask me for forgiveness for being such a difficult man to please. I am very confused as to why he has changed.

 

my hair stands on end. Pikachu, please, for your own safety, get out now.

That is classic abuser behaviour. I have worked extensively with battered women and this is a recurrent theme. You might not recognise it now from the inside, but by the time you do it will be too late.

 

 

I truly love him and I know he truly cares for me too.

 

He has a very peculiar way of showing it! If he hit you, instead of just intentionally hurting you emotionally, would that demonstrate even stronger caring? If he dumped you and made you beg and plead that much harder and longer before he took you back - would you be even more convinced of his love?

 

And I feel terrible towards the wife.

 

Don't. That's her choice. Just as your craving him is yours. Feel terrible about your own choice, and then do something about it - invest your feelings where they can have an effect, rather than frittering them on something over which you have no control and where nothing will come of it but you feeling worse.

 

Why do women in our situation get blamed when such things happen?

 

It's not his fault that you feel miserable - it's yours for choosing to stay with someone who delights in making you feel that way.

 

But he will always tell me that no matter what he will never let me go even if the wife were to give him an ultimatum.

 

This too is the hallmark of an abuser. They may not want you, but they do not want anyone else to have you and least of all do they want you to regain the control of yourself from them.

 

Pikachu - this screams warning signs all over it. Get out now, while you still can.