NoIDidn't Posted April 26, 2009 Posted April 26, 2009 I read alot of OPs who think that the WS will continue to cheat on the BS, even if its with a new OP. But it seems that its only said if the WS stays with the BS. Why is it that it seems that the OP thinks that the WS would be totally faithful to them if they leave the marriage, but not faithful to the marriage ever again? If the OP is so sure that the WS would cheat, why do they seem to still want them knowing this? Thanks.
tami-chan Posted April 26, 2009 Posted April 26, 2009 I read alot of OPs who think that the WS will continue to cheat on the BS, even if its with a new OP. But it seems that its only said if the WS stays with the BS. Why is it that it seems that the OP thinks that the WS would be totally faithful to them if they leave the marriage, but not faithful to the marriage ever again? If the OP is so sure that the WS would cheat, why do they seem to still want them knowing this? Thanks. Probably the same reason why some BSs want to fix the marriage. There is always that chance that the WS realized how he/she cannot continue living without the BS in his/her life.
OpenBook Posted April 26, 2009 Posted April 26, 2009 Probably the same reason why some BSs want to fix the marriage. My thoughts exactly. Both women want to end up with the guy. And I think they're BOTH nuts. He isn't worth the paper it takes to wipe his @ss. Definitely not worth two (or more) women fighting over him. But I'm sure he gets quite a kick out of it. Agh, my stomach just lurched.
tami-chan Posted April 26, 2009 Posted April 26, 2009 But my reason would be different, I want to end up with the guy, THEN dump him! hehe..oooppss does the make me a sociopath?
bentnotbroken Posted April 27, 2009 Posted April 27, 2009 My thoughts exactly. Both women want to end up with the guy. And I think they're BOTH nuts. He isn't worth the paper it takes to wipe his @ss. Definitely not worth two (or more) women fighting over him. But I'm sure he gets quite a kick out of it. Agh, my stomach just lurched. I like the way you put that:lmao:. Absolutely perfect.
fooled once Posted April 27, 2009 Posted April 27, 2009 I think it is because so many women think they are "better than" the wife. They think they are prettier, thinner, younger, smarter, have a better body, blah blah blah and that alone will make the man not cheat. What they don't understand, IMHO, is that the man isn't worth **** if that is what he is after (better body, younger, etc). These men dated/slept with/married these women. I know, I know all these men were forced under duress to sleep with these women and guns were held at their heads to marry them..... And I think many women think that "THEY" are 'the one' and the soul mate of the married man and that man's life didn't begin until they met them. And TOTAL competition --- which is why women have a hard time getting along; it is all about competition and beating out the other person
MWC_LifeBeginsAt40 Posted April 27, 2009 Posted April 27, 2009 I think it is because so many women think they are "better than" the wife. They think they are prettier, thinner, younger, smarter, have a better body, blah blah blah and that alone will make the man not cheat. What they don't understand, IMHO, is that the man isn't worth **** if that is what he is after (better body, younger, etc). These men dated/slept with/married these women. I know, I know all these men were forced under duress to sleep with these women and guns were held at their heads to marry them..... And I think many women think that "THEY" are 'the one' and the soul mate of the married man and that man's life didn't begin until they met them. And TOTAL competition --- which is why women have a hard time getting along; it is all about competition and beating out the other person It's not always as one-sided as you and the other posters indicate. It's not about me vs the BS. Every situation has similarities but it's the differences in each affair, how it started, the reasons, and the people involved you don't know anything about, and the stereotyping you do is so frustrating! I want to put my whole story out but it's none of anyone's business, and I don't need any help with it. I might get my heart broken, I might end up with my MM for life. There are decisions to be made, and what's done is done, someone will get hurt, and we can't turn back the clock. Quit judging us, and quit trying to find one reason why affairs happen. We could turn it around and judge you! Why did YOU have to pick the good looking guy when you're so average? Why did you have to get the guy with the great career when you barely made it through college? Why do you get to enjoy his family's success when you come from a blue-collar family? Why do you think you get to have all that and "let yourself go"? Why do you get to stop fulfilling his sexual appetite just because you carried his children? Why do you think you deserve to keep him and do you honestly think he would be faithful to you or did you just love him so much you were blind to the fact that he might just want to trade up somewhere down the line? I'm not trying to be rude, I just think that alot of us got married in our 20's to the person we were with at the time in our lives when we thought we should be married. Society put that on us. 50% of marriages end in divorce so I've heard. Why be so dramatic like it's the end of the world? Life goes on. There's lots of men out there. Go find another one when someone takes yours away.
DNU1 Posted April 27, 2009 Posted April 27, 2009 *Love* ain't about a magic feeling that sweeps you up and carrys you off. It's as simple as meeting the other persons key emotional needs and spending lots of time with them. That's how affairs happen. WS isn't getting needs met, starts talking to another person...gets those needs met, keeps going back to get those needs met. Then they *fall in love* with the OP. It's that simple. Read Harley's book "surviving an affair." Want to fall back in love with your spouse -- it's simple. Find out what their key emotional nees are and MEET THEM! And spend 15+ hours a week ALONE with that person. Meet their needs, they meet your needs, spend lots of time together and bang, sparks flying, you will feel the *love* There is much more to it than that...but what I've written is the basics.
bentnotbroken Posted April 27, 2009 Posted April 27, 2009 It's not always as one-sided as you and the other posters indicate. It's not about me vs the BS. Every situation has similarities but it's the differences in each affair, how it started, the reasons, and the people involved you don't know anything about, and the stereotyping you do is so frustrating! I want to put my whole story out but it's none of anyone's business, and I don't need any help with it. I might get my heart broken, I might end up with my MM for life. There are decisions to be made, and what's done is done, someone will get hurt, and we can't turn back the clock. Quit judging us, and quit trying to find one reason why affairs happen. We could turn it around and judge you! Why did YOU have to pick the good looking guy when you're so average? Why did you have to get the guy with the great career when you barely made it through college? Why do you get to enjoy his family's success when you come from a blue-collar family? Why do you think you get to have all that and "let yourself go"? Why do you get to stop fulfilling his sexual appetite just because you carried his children? Why do you think you deserve to keep him and do you honestly think he would be faithful to you or did you just love him so much you were blind to the fact that he might just want to trade up somewhere down the line? I'm not trying to be rude, I just think that alot of us got married in our 20's to the person we were with at the time in our lives when we thought we should be married. Society put that on us. 50% of marriages end in divorce so I've heard. Why be so dramatic like it's the end of the world? Life goes on. There's lots of men out there. Go find another one when someone takes yours away. No one can take a man(or woman) anywhere. You can interfere in a couple's life, then the participating partner can choose to live, but take...come on. As far a the drama. Some of us base our vows very seriously. It is a covenant with our partners and God, so the drama is a result of that. Not to mention all the things you did. Children, extended family, private promises, public declarations and ultimate betrayal. I don't know your situation, and it is fine, not necessary to my opinion. And this is my opinion, but cheating is a lowering of moral standards if they ever existed and a lack of respect for one's self & family, a lack of integrity in dealing with problems in a mature and responsible manner and the feeling of entitlement to do what you want no matter who it hurts. That is one size fits all. Now the individual circumstances that lead to those actions and the justifications for the actions are as varied as grains of sand on a beach. But in the context of cheating, lying is just lying no matter who does it or why.
Can'tGiveUp Posted April 27, 2009 Posted April 27, 2009 I think it is because so many women think they are "better than" the wife. They think they are prettier, thinner, younger, smarter, have a better body, blah blah blah and that alone will make the man not cheat. What they don't understand, IMHO, is that the man isn't worth **** if that is what he is after (better body, younger, etc). These men dated/slept with/married these women. I know, I know all these men were forced under duress to sleep with these women and guns were held at their heads to marry them..... And I think many women think that "THEY" are 'the one' and the soul mate of the married man and that man's life didn't begin until they met them. And TOTAL competition --- which is why women have a hard time getting along; it is all about competition and beating out the other person I'm not prettier - just very different looking, I'm not thinner (at least not significantly), I'm older, I don't think my body is better. I will give you that I am probably smarter. Definitely more educated. Clearly he is not after the younger, hotter chick, because that is not me. When/if I end up with him, he won't cheat on me. I would stake my life on it. Our R is based on communication. Neither of us would want a repeat of the kind of M's we had/have. We are older, wiser and more mature than when we married the first time. It's not that I think I am "the one", its what he thinks. TOTALLY not a competition. Quit judging us, and quit trying to find one reason why affairs happen. I'm not trying to be rude, I just think that alot of us got married in our 20's to the person we were with at the time in our lives when we thought we should be married. MWC, these two lines really struck a chord with me. Not every A is the same. Not everyone has the same reasons for engaging in one. Some are about having unmet needs at home and finding that with the AP. Some are exit affairs. With those, by the time the A is discovered, it doesn't matter - the WS left the M emotionally before the A ever started. I wish I had really known what love was when I was in my 20's. Maybe some people do find it the first time around...I didn't. And didn't realize how far off base I was until I found it many years later.
DNU1 Posted April 27, 2009 Posted April 27, 2009 [sIZE=5][COLOR=#990000]Can'tGiveUp[/COLOR][/sIZE]: If/When he leaves his wife and marries you it's called an "affairage." Standard divorce rate in us is 50%. Affairage divorce rate is something like 85% (don't quote me on those numbers...generally much worse than standard marriage). And if you think he's not going to cheat on you, well, I've got some good swamp land in Florida for sale The great communication you have is meeting his need for admiration / affection / openness and honesty. Those are huge key emotional needs. You are meeting those needs for him...that's why he *loves* you. His wife is not meeting those needs...you are. Leave him, and tell his wife what he's been up to. You don't need that kind of pain.
Can'tGiveUp Posted April 27, 2009 Posted April 27, 2009 [sIZE=5][COLOR=#990000]Can'tGiveUp[/COLOR][/sIZE]: If/When he leaves his wife and marries you it's called an "affairage." Standard divorce rate in us is 50%. Affairage divorce rate is something like 85% (don't quote me on those numbers...generally much worse than standard marriage). And if you think he's not going to cheat on you, well, I've got some good swamp land in Florida for sale The great communication you have is meeting his need for admiration / affection / openness and honesty. Those are huge key emotional needs. You are meeting those needs for him...that's why he *loves* you. His wife is not meeting those needs...you are. Leave him, and tell his wife what he's been up to. You don't need that kind of pain. I don't believe any of the statistics as they are relying on too much guesstimation. (Except for total divorces/total marriages and even that changes every year) One quick look will find that somewhere between 15% and 70% of men cheat. Depends which study you want to believe. I would hardly be contemplating a life with someone if we weren't meeting each others emotional needs, now would I? No need to leave him - I am not with him as he is sorting things out.
White Flower Posted April 27, 2009 Posted April 27, 2009 I read alot of OPs who think that the WS will continue to cheat on the BS, even if its with a new OP. But it seems that its only said if the WS stays with the BS. Why is it that it seems that the OP thinks that the WS would be totally faithful to them if they leave the marriage, but not faithful to the marriage ever again? If the OP is so sure that the WS would cheat, why do they seem to still want them knowing this? Thanks.I'm not sure most OPs believe this to be neccessarily true; however, one of the reasons anyone might believe a WS would continue to cheat (even with another OP) is that the BS took that person (WS) back thereby not really punishing them with dire consequences such as divorce. And once the WS learned he/she had little or no consequences they would find it easier to do again especially with all that experience. One possible reason that the OP would believe the WS would be faithful to them only after leaving is the fact that the WS risked SO MUCH in order to make the new M happen. Divorcing and remarrying are HUGE efforts to undertake and most WS are not willing to do that unless they mean business, ie., doing it for the one they truly love. That is a whole lotta work to undertake if you're only going to end up cheating again, losing everything again. And again and again. In fact, I would inject here that I believe most serial cheaters are married once for life. Answering your last question is difficult because of the way it is phrased. I don't think anyone would want to marry someone they knew was a repeat cheater. But I suppose that if a WS was willing to risk so much yet didn't take it all the way to D and ended up staying M, it would appear that he/she was insincere with his/her motives which changes the meaning of everything the A was about. This final discovery can form the opinion that they will probably do it again.
OWoman Posted April 27, 2009 Posted April 27, 2009 I read alot of OPs who think that the WS will continue to cheat on the BS, even if its with a new OP. But it seems that its only said if the WS stays with the BS. I'm not one of those (pertaining to my own situation) - if I'd dumped him, he'd have had the choice of staying with his (then)W or leaving anyway. Given the process he'd been through in counselling, her inability to change (or even recognise that there was a problem and a need to change) and his realisation that the kids were getting screwed up through the dysfunctional M, I reckon he'd have left anyway. If he'd stayed with her, would he have found someone else? Who knows, possibly after time he may have fallen in love with someone else, but sex for its own sake he could have gotten from all kinds of wannabe-OWs throughout his M and had never looked twice at, so why would he start then - given that he knew what he wanted and needed, and that wasn't it? Why is it that it seems that the OP thinks that the WS would be totally faithful to them if they leave the marriage' date=' but not faithful to the marriage ever again?[/quote'] There was no sex in his M for the last years. I've seen the medical records. He could have opted for celibacy, sure - but why would he choose to do that and remain in a M he'd come to recognise as abusive not only for himself but for his kids? Do I think he will be totally faithful to me? I think he will - not that it matters to me, but that's just how he's put together. He knows the costs he bore the last time around, when there was only deception through omission, and no lying, no stealing of time or resources and no hiding of his R with me from anyone else. If he were to engage in a hidden A, with all that that entails, the stress would finish him! If the OP is so sure that the WS would cheat' date=' why do they seem to still want them knowing this?[/quote'] I'm not in that position so couldn't say.
fooled once Posted April 28, 2009 Posted April 28, 2009 It's not always as one-sided as you and the other posters indicate. It's not about me vs the BS. Every situation has similarities but it's the differences in each affair, how it started, the reasons, and the people involved you don't know anything about, and the stereotyping you do is so frustrating! I want to put my whole story out but it's none of anyone's business, and I don't need any help with it. I might get my heart broken, I might end up with my MM for life. There are decisions to be made, and what's done is done, someone will get hurt, and we can't turn back the clock. Quit judging us, and quit trying to find one reason why affairs happen. We could turn it around and judge you! Why did YOU have to pick the good looking guy when you're so average? Just lucky I guess!! Why did you have to get the guy with the great career when you barely made it through college? I didn't go to college *wink* Why do you get to enjoy his family's success when you come from a blue-collar family? My family was much more successful than his family Why do you think you get to have all that and "let yourself go"? I haven't let myself go. And neither has my husband Why do you get to stop fulfilling his sexual appetite just because you carried his children? This is laughable. Why do women believes the crap that these men tell them???? Why do you think you deserve to keep him Why do you think you deserve him and do you honestly think he would be faithful to you or did you just love him so much you were blind to the fact that he might just want to trade up somewhere down the line? You made my point with the "trade up" comment. I'm not trying to be rude, I just think that alot of us got married in our 20's to the person we were with at the time in our lives when we thought we should be married. Society put that on us. 50% of marriages end in divorce so I've heard. Why be so dramatic like it's the end of the world? Divorce DOES happen. But why do you have to go after a man who is married? If he really wanted you, he would end ONE relationship before starting another. Or did he give you the line of "I can't until my kids are grown?" Life goes on. There's lots of men out there. Go find another one when someone takes yours away.Why don't you go find one that isn't married?? Sounds like a nerve was touched I was with a MM. I think I have some experience that is relevant to the original posters question. I got married in my 20's; divorced in my 30's, had an A with a MM AFTER my divorce (he was not the cause of my divorce); that 2 year affair almost destroyed me and then thankfully, after that A ended, I met my current husband and have been happily married for 11 years. Neither my ex nor my current DH ever cheated. Some men honor their vows. HAD my current DH cheated in his first marriage, I wouldn't be with him. I don't do cheaters anymore. My xMM fed me all the same bull**** they feed the OW -- no sex at home, she is mean, she doesn't understand me, I don't love her, no communication, nothing in common, blah blah blah. All of it is crap, IMHO. Women, IMHO, shouldn't settle for being 2nd best. They should stoop low enough to engage in a relationship with a man who is married. Right off the bat, the relationship starts on a lie. He lies to his wife; he lies to his OW. How can a true honest relationship survive when it starts off with a lie? I wish more women wouldn't settle. I wish more women realized they deserved to be #1. I wish most women thought more of themselves than to sneak around, and settle for scraps. And I ended a marriage when my son was 6. So it can be done -- you can end a marriage/get a divorce when children are young.
Lizzie60 Posted April 28, 2009 Posted April 28, 2009 I read alot of OPs who think that the WS will continue to cheat on the BS, even if its with a new OP. But it seems that its only said if the WS stays with the BS. Why is it that it seems that the OP thinks that the WS would be totally faithful to them if they leave the marriage, but not faithful to the marriage ever again? If the OP is so sure that the WS would cheat, why do they seem to still want them knowing this? Thanks. I am absolutely positive that my first ex would still be cheating if he had stayed with his W... he always cheated on her.. I ended up with him.. for 18 years.. and I don't think that he cheated on me.. if he did, it wasn't a 'long term A' like he had with me.. We were together all the time.. even to the point of me getting sooo freaken fed up with him. At the time, I really believe that he would change for me.. well.. guess what .. he did.. He was totally different with me than he was with her.. So, yes, I absolutely believe that he would still be cheating with HER.
MWC_LifeBeginsAt40 Posted April 28, 2009 Posted April 28, 2009 My MM has no children, if he did I wouldn't be with him. There are valid reasons why he hasn't left his wife yet. I gave him one year and he said he will have it figured out in the next few months. He loves me, not her. I listen to what he says about his home life, but I don't pry. It's not a competition of me vs her because I would win hands down. There are other factors and if he left her tomorrow we would still have to be discreet. In my marriage, my kids were also young (8 and 10) and that ended over 4 years ago. I settled in my relationships since then, but this time, believe me, I am not settling.
Chrome Barracuda Posted April 28, 2009 Posted April 28, 2009 My MM has no children, if he did I wouldn't be with him. There are valid reasons why he hasn't left his wife yet. I gave him one year and he said he will have it figured out in the next few months. He loves me, not her. I listen to what he says about his home life, but I don't pry. It's not a competition of me vs her because I would win hands down. There are other factors and if he left her tomorrow we would still have to be discreet. In my marriage, my kids were also young (8 and 10) and that ended over 4 years ago. I settled in my relationships since then, but this time, believe me, I am not settling. Wow.... the fantasy you have is amazing. You really think that he wont betray you just as fast...Especially if you dont have kids, with him. Some example your really choosing to be with. Your not settling but your poaching, and intruding on this woman's marriage, because he's allowing it. Wow you are very foggy. lol.
DNU1 Posted April 28, 2009 Posted April 28, 2009 Forecast for today: Heavy fog not expected to lift for quite some time. A delusional front has settled in over the affair creating a mirage of a *true love* relationship. Winds of wayward babble will continue to blow from the east, continuing the vortex of lies and deceipt. In other news, the town of *betrayed spouse* will continue to be blanket by thick, dark clouds with little hope of clearing skies. More rain likely. Experts agree that Lake Truth, being held by the *damn of deceipt* continues to rise. They expect the dam of deceipt to burst in the near future, sending Lake Truth waters flooding in to the town of *betrayed spouse.* Disaster relief workers are poised and ready for action. Stay tuned to this channel for more updates...
bentnotbroken Posted April 28, 2009 Posted April 28, 2009 My MM has no children, if he did I wouldn't be with him. There are valid reasons why he hasn't left his wife yet. I gave him one year and he said he will have it figured out in the next few months. He loves me, not her. I listen to what he says about his home life, but I don't pry. It's not a competition of me vs her because I would win hands down. There are other factors and if he left her tomorrow we would still have to be discreet. In my marriage, my kids were also young (8 and 10) and that ended over 4 years ago. I settled in my relationships since then, but this time, believe me, I am not settling. Win what? A lying sad sack of walking steaming cow pies? Great prize, why don't we all go get one?
2sure Posted April 28, 2009 Posted April 28, 2009 An affair is a nice extra for WS. And it isn't just sex, its the attention and the validation. For the whole fantasy to be complete.... WS has to think he/she is really lucky to have found OP. OP has to think there is a real connection to WS. Its really really great when there is this whole "forbidden love" thing. So, OP ideally ends up thinking they are soul mates, etc. Having been OW several times, I can tell you that although I wasn't interested in sincerely buying it...the affair would not have been as satisfying for MM unless I did. Thats why, usually, the OP is at a vulnerable point in their lives. Otherwise, they don't buy it. Having been a BS - I can tell you that BS often know that the "connection" between WS & OP is fantasy. That the OP is not the threat to the marriage. Thats why some don't leave on D-Day.
taylor Posted April 28, 2009 Posted April 28, 2009 I read alot of OPs who think that the WS will continue to cheat on the BS, even if its with a new OP. But it seems that its only said if the WS stays with the BS. Why is it that it seems that the OP thinks that the WS would be totally faithful to them if they leave the marriage, but not faithful to the marriage ever again? If the OP is so sure that the WS would cheat, why do they seem to still want them knowing this? Thanks. Usually, the WS makes it very clear to the OP how unhappy they are in their marriage...all the problems with their spouse and all the issues in the marriage. If the affair ends and the WS stays in the marriage, the OP thinks the WS will cheat AGAIN because the WS remains in the same unhappy situation...with the same "problematic" spouse and with the same marital "issues." So, this leads the OP to believe the WS will continue to cheat to find happiness, escape problems and issues on the homefront. Why does the OP believe the WS would not cheat if the WS left the marriage and continued a relationship with them? Because the OP is convinced THEIR relationship is so much better than the one the WS had with the BS. THEIRS does not have the same problems or issues. THEIRS is more compatible, kinder, exciting, passionate, and trouble-free. They meet each others needs BETTER than needs were being met between the WS and the BS in the marriage...and if needs are being met, why would anyone want to cheat? This is why OP think a WS will continue to cheat on a BS, but would not cheat if they left the BS and stayed in a relationship with them. With that said, I will also add that I do think OP often think they are in a competition with a BS. Although my EA was brief...there was no discussion of any of my marital problems...I do recall the following: My OM gave me a card with some very beautiful heart-felt words in them. He told me how I changed his life..how no one "got" him the way I did...how amazing the connection was..how no one could make him as happy as I did. When I told him I never had anyone say words to me like that before, he said, "WELL, SOMEBODY SHOULD HAVE." I knew at that point that he felt in competition with my husband...and that he had just "one-upped" my husband with his card. I, on the other hand, never viewed it as any kind of competition...not until then. This may not be true in all cases, but in my case, I affaired-down. If you want to just look at the statistics, my husband was the far better man. He was college-educated, white-collar job, hefty savings plan, well-known and well-liked in the community, walks the straight and narrow, owns a beautiful home and a couple vehicles. The OM was the proverbial bad boy. I had never been involved with one before. He was a high school drop out, had done drugs, divorced from runaway wife, had a minimum wage job, bankrupt, renting older home, a couple mouths to feed, and driving a beater car. Looking at the statistics, someone would have thought I was nuts to even be attracted to a man like this. But, at the time, he was the one meeting my emotional needs at a time when I was hurting and very vulnerable. And looking beyond the statistics, the man had inner qualities that were very similar to my husband's. The OM couldn't "beat" my husband statistically, but he was the "winner" for several months as he was the only one meeting my emotional needs.
herenow Posted April 28, 2009 Posted April 28, 2009 I can understand why both BW and OW want to believe that the MM is in the marriage or affair because there is something real about the relationship. IMO a MM who is having an affair doesn't have a real relationship with anyone and isn't able to be faithful to anyone. If a MM stays with his wife (providing she stays as well) or leaves to be with the OW, IMO he will continue to cheat on either woman unless he does what t takes to fix the problems that lead to the affair in the first place. To say that a man who has an affair can be faithful to anyone without some serious self reflection and willingness to fix his own issues is naive at best (IMO). Yes, marriages have problems, but not all people who are dis-satisfied with the state of their marriage turn to other men or women. Many are able to deal with the problems, fix the problem or move on before starting a new relationship. Those who are unable to do that, IMO, have their own issues to deal with and unless they are dealt with successfully, I can't see him being faithful to any woman.
2sure Posted April 28, 2009 Posted April 28, 2009 [QUOTE=MWC_LifeBeginsAt40;2150278] There are other factors and if he left her tomorrow we would still have to be discreet. Other Factors...typically means that he is a public figure in the community of some sort. Religious leader, politician, etc. If the affair will need to be kept secret, even if he leaves his wife... Its just another way of saying he wants to be SURE he at no point has to take any ownership or responsibility for the affair. Which is fine, but takes a special kind of person.
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