Making sense of me or him...why did I do this

[Juno]

Background....we broke up in Jan. I was miserable going NC. Became over joyous when he texted me two months after we split. So in March/April we saw each other 3 times. Intitially he exchanged loving sentiments with me. We usually talked everyday or every other day.

 

Then this past week, I spent the weekend with him. Sat/Sun. I noticed that I was the only one expressing loving sentiments. We did not have a fight, but just spent time quietly hanging out.

 

Monday, we exchanged a few texts...he was not feeling well. As a matter of fact, he was sick over the weekend as well.

 

No further contact until today.....Friday. I asked if we were getting together this weekend, and he said he was "booked". Curious way to phrase it.

 

Not leaving well enough alone, I began the following dialogue which I knew would not be good.

 

Me: Booked...no problem, I'm busy too. Question: are we friends or more, never clearly understood after NC.

Him: Just really busy now. If you can't wait you understand I could not ask to hold you down.

Me: Don't mind waiting if "more". If friends would like to know.

Him: No response after 30 mins.

Me: What you said is just a bunch of mumbo jumbo. Need to know today "friends" or "more".

Him: Why today? Got a date lined up? heehee

Me: Maybe/maybe not. Depends on you. You like to keep me off balance. Straight answer. Need to know today friends or more.

Him: You're pushing me...why?

Me: No push. Give me something, anything. Door wide open.

Him: Don't want to lead.

Me: OK. I take that as friends.

Him: OK

 

What made me push the envelope Was I just following up on my women's intiution based on his behavior the previous weekend?

 

Why was it so hard for him to come out and say it? Did he just say it to make me stop?

 

Insight anyone?

[9Lives]

Cause you made it too easy for him. He did not have to chase. He did not express his feelings. He just showed up and you jumped alll over it. You should not have been telling him how you feel especially since you did not know how he felt. You should have played it cool and not pushed him for anything. If he wanted "more'..you would not had to ask.

 

I am seeing, it is not good to be telling guys how you feel before you know how they feel. Even after you know how they feel, you still need to weigh it out. Alot of guys..not all...but alot of guys dont want to know how we feel.

 

it is kinda stupid.

 

Just be cool. I think it was too soon for emotions and feelings since yall just started hanging out

[Juno]

Cause you made it too easy for him. He did not have to chase. He did not express his feelings. He just showed up and you jumped alll over it. You should not have been telling him how you feel especially since you did not know how he felt. You should have played it cool and not pushed him for anything. If he wanted "more'..you would not had to ask.

 

I am seeing, it is not good to be telling guys how you feel before you know how they feel. Even after you know how they feel, you still need to weigh it out. Alot of guys..not all...but alot of guys dont want to know how we feel.

 

it is kinda stupid.

 

Just be cool. I think it was too soon for emotions and feelings since yall just started hanging out

 

Thanks for the response. Initially I felt like I was in the driver's seat. Setting the pace, being honest and upfront about what I wanted.

 

Then this...threw me for a loop. He is habitual at showing affection, saying I love you, then withdrawing and acting indifferent.

 

I don't know. I think I push to let him know if he doesn't become more consistent with feelings, I'm jumping off of this crazy mind f*ck ride.

[LadyV]

I am in the same situation. One minute, I am so strong and not giving into him. Once I do, all of a sudden, the chase is done, he withdraws and it's the same thing all over again....

 

I am so tired of it. We were together for 4 months, and now are "sleeping" with one another It has happend 3 times since he first contacted me 3 weeks ago...I'm tired of this cycle. I'm tired of feeling like there is a chance. I just want to be all done and just have him leave me alone...If only I could be so strong....

[Juno]

Practically mid-night, and I'm still up trying to make sense of that earlier conversation.

 

Last weekend he said I was the closest person to him. I said no, can't be. I don't know you that well. How about your best friend, or your mother? He said his best friend knew him well when they went to college together, not so much now. His mother...he lived away from home for years so she doesn't know him now like I do.

 

I'm not sure if he was saying this in a comforting way or in a way in which he wish someone else was just as close to him as I am.

 

I'm confused, sadden that once again this seems to be the end of us. Atleast this time I am better able to cope. I will play it cool and see if he comes around.

[Chinook]

To be honest, I'd take a good look at things. If he's not all over you coming to get you, why should you worry....? It sounds to me like he's not bothered either way what happens. I would drop contact for a while, let him recover from being ill and see how it goes. If he wants more than friends, let him chase you, let him show you. If he doesn't well, you'll know that too by his lack of interest.

[nature]

This guy sounds like the typical "emotionally unavailable" person. Look up emotionally unavailable, and he is the definition. His hot/cold, push/pull, Jekyll/Hyde personality.

 

You did nothing wrong by asking where you stood. But remember this...if you already have to ask the person, then you probably already know the answer.

 

Nobody is too busy or "booked" for someone they really love. It's just not reality. Rocket scientists and brain surgeon's still have time for family and the people they love. You know this as well as i do. Nothing can be that important that he couldn't make a bit of time to see you on the weekend. Its BS. And you already know this. Which is why you backed him against the wall. You wanted to hear the answer from him that you already knew inside.

 

Just my opinion...but as a woman, it's very evident when a man is into you. We all know the difference. And it probably sucks to face the fact that this man isn't that into you, but i think you already know this. If I were you, I would salvage my pride and dignity and cut him off entirely. None of this "friends" BS.

 

Friends is a weak term thrown around when someone doesn't want to commit, but still wants all the benefits without the responsibility. Do you actually want to settle for that? Because if you do settle for that, then you are just showing him that you don't think highly of yourself and are willing to be someones "go to" girl. And therefore, he won't think highly of you.

 

We get treated the way we allow ourselves to be treated.

[Juno]

Nature....thank you for labeling this phenomenon for me. I looked up emotionally unavailable person and this is what I found:

 

How do people act emotionally unavailable?

 

* They're emotionally distant and extremely remote, except when courting.

* They're too busy, sick, tired or preoccupied with other things. Their energy, time and life-force are all taken with other priorities.

* They frequently work a lot , and don't have quality time to spend with you.

* They're not responsive. They ignore you and your requests, and they don't try hard to make a relationship work.

* They don't, won't or can't commit to a relationship.

* They may be extremely critical and judgmental, so you may have a hard time doing anything "right" in their eyes.

* They may flirt with other people, and may not value monogamy.

* They may watch TV or sports a lot, read, work-out, or otherwise be preoccupied with something or someone that routinely interferes with their ability to be with you.

* They may be addicted to some substance, such as alcohol, drugs or food, which renders them incapable of being present and truly available to another person.

 

If it seems that you routinely love your partner more than he or

she loves you, that you express affection, care and commitment more

than you receive, presume that you are involved with an emotionally

unavailable partner.

 

Emotionally unavailable people may profess to love you and care

about you, and they may make wonderful promises about your future

together, but they don't follow through with believable behaviors

that make you feel wanted and secure around them.

 

My ex is textbook on all points. I always knew there was some psychological defination for what I was experiencing with him. I wish I would have found out exactly what this was a year and a half ago.

 

Reading this, I see there is no hope of things ever being different between us. This behavior is so intrenched in his character...it's who he is.

 

Hopefully for his sake, one day he will meet the right person that will inspire him to become available.

 

Discovering this has help me close the door. All along I thought it was me.

[nature]

I am glad I could help! Your ex is textbook! Now, even tho you better understand his "issue" does not mean it will necessarily be easier to close the door. It will still hurt a great deal. But I honestly think you have to. They say some emotionally unavailable people can change if shaken up enough....but very few do. However, the only slight possible chance of having an emotionally unavailable person change, is for them to lose you ENTIRELY. I mean entirely. No friendship. No anything.

 

It's goign to be hard. Sometimes these types of breakups hurt even more, because you really have no control over it. So you feel powerless to his behaviours and issues. But you do have power...over yourself. You do not need to torment yourself with this any longer. Shut the door, grieve, cry, be angry, be everything you have to. Get it out of your system. Because being involved with an emotionally unavailable person is the same as banging your head against the wall. It doesn't matter what you do. You'll still get the same behaviours from the person. It's painful.

 

But it is NOT your issue. I am glad you see that. They can be the coldest, cruelest people of all. So decide right now if you want to be treated like **** over and over. Because that is all you will get from this guy for now. And there are zillions of guys out there who will not treat you like ****. Guys who will value you and look forward to seeing you. It may take awhile to meet one. But your time is better spent looking after your emotional and mental health, than constantly living in a state of emotional turmoil wondering what this guy thinks or wants with you.

 

In a way, dating an EU person is a form of abuse. It's emotional neglect, as well as the roller coaster ride of emotions. That is why it makes it so difficult to leave them. I hope you can be strong enough to do it. You deserve so much better. I'd rather be alone than put up with that ****.

[Juno]

By me being relentless with my question, I hope he senses that I have had enough. The use of the word "friends" was simlpy a subsitution for "breakup" My line of questioning really meant, declare our status or I'm gone.

 

This was a real turning point for me, as I have never been this direct and straight to the point with him. I always would sit back, let him do whatever he needed to do because his life was so "allegedly" busy.

 

Thinking about it, how busy could he be? Never married, no kids. All he does is work, sleep, drink beer and watches t.v.

 

To further confirm his newly labeled status, he never uses the phone, but opts to communicate via text, IM, or email. I always gave him the benefit of the doubt and just considered him "shy".

 

I am kicking myself for letting him gain so much control over my emotions, with so little effort.

 

Nature...if you are reading this...I know what you will say. I'm a "love addict", which is a person who is the counterpoint to the "emotionally unavailable" person. I read that too, as I looked E.U. shhhs...we won't talk about that.

 

Damn-it, if this is true, then I have some issues to work out of my own...lol

 

Wonder if he realize I am gone, and wonder if he will try to come back?

[loser101]

why does it matter whether he will try to come back to you? he is lazy and boring. you said yourself he doesn't do much, he is just a couch potato. that's dull.

[Juno]

why does it matter whether he will try to come back to you? he is lazy and boring. you said yourself he doesn't do much, he is just a couch potato. that's dull.

 

I don't know. I guess I was just wondering if the thought of my permament absence will shake him, wake him up, snap him out of this thing.

 

Obvisiously he wasn't a complete bore, I stuck around for 1.5 years.

 

In the end, I guess it doesn't matter if I am truely committed to the course I have set....which I am.

 

Thanks for reminding me with a knock on the head.

[nature]

Juno,

 

I wouldn't necessarily say you are a love addict. You just met someone who you clicked with. And in a weird sense, the EU people can be very enticing....because the "challenge" is always there...at the forefront of the relationship. It can become addicting in an unhealthy sort of way. You, yourself, already know this. That is why it can be difficult to leave.

 

Already you are wondering if he will come back. That is part of the addiction to the EU person. It is not enough for you to think that YOU have left. You are wondering if HE will be done as well. Wondering if he will come back. Somehow you have to sit with yourself for a while, and realize to yourself that you have left. It does not matter what he has done. The fact of the matter is that you were not getting treated right. Do you want to be in a relationship wtih someone who does not treat you right? NO. That is why you've now made the decision to leave it. Therefore, it does not matter what he is thinking.

 

Yes, he will probably be in contact with you at some point. Why not? You've been nice to him. Shown him that you will be there for him even thru his emotional unavailability. So he will probably just assume you will be there for him again. This will be the time to show him wtih your actions (not words) that you are not there for him.

 

Emotionally unavailable people usually hide behind text/email communication. Because it is less personal. You accepted this from him, and therefore, he again was shown that you would put up with it. So therefore, he will not assume you are gone right now. You called him on the "where do we stand" thing. He knew it mattered to you. Knew you were hurt. Knew you cared about it. Therefore, he will still assume you care.

 

It will not be until you show him that you want and deserve better. That it is you making the decision to end it. Not giving him all the power. Because by still backing him against the wall, you were still giving him the power to make the ultimate decision about where you stood. Asking him what HE wanted. Rather than saying to him, "look, this isn't working for me and i've decided you are not what I want for a relationship. You are not giving me what I need. You are not fulfilling my needs, etc".

 

Even tho you think you took the power back by backing him against the wall, you were still telling him that you were there if HE wanted you. Rather than backing him against the wall and saying "look you *******, I'm ending this right now because I'm sick of your games, your pretending you are too busy for me, your lack of honesty and openness, etc". You still gave him the chance to be with you, and ultimately he said no. So he still got to make the final decision.

 

So if he comes back, this is the chance for you to say NO to him, no matter what he says to you. You can say "no thank you."

[Ayla]

Hi Nature and Juno,

 

Juno - I feel your pain. My ex bf ie a textbook EU/Commitment Phobe. Our break up was very sudden and unexpected - and it has hurt me badly 5 weeks ago. I gave up everything to move country and be with him. Now I am back in my home country with no money, no job and no home....thankgod for friends! Since we broke up and I left the country (5 days after breaking up) I have not heard from him. But I know that one day I will hear from him...and hopefully I will be strong enough to say no. Between u I am sure that we can get through this. I think the best thing for us is NC or LC, that will only make you stronger.

 

Nature - I really think that you give great advice. If you have the time, can you have a look at some of my threads and let me know your thoughts.

 

Take care -and one thing that has stuck in my head the last few weeks is that it was no my fault and nothing that I could have done would have changed the outcome.

[Juno]

Hi Nature and Juno,

 

Juno - I feel your pain. My ex bf ie a textbook EU/Commitment Phobe. Our break up was very sudden and unexpected - and it has hurt me badly 5 weeks ago. I gave up everything to move country and be with him. Now I am back in my home country with no money, no job and no home....thankgod for friends! Since we broke up and I left the country (5 days after breaking up) I have not heard from him. But I know that one day I will hear from him...and hopefully I will be strong enough to say no. Between u I am sure that we can get through this. I think the best thing for us is NC or LC, that will only make you stronger.

 

Nature - I really think that you give great advice. If you have the time, can you have a look at some of my threads and let me know your thoughts.

 

Take care -and one thing that has stuck in my head the last few weeks is that it was no my fault and nothing that I could have done would have changed the outcome.

 

Ayla, I sorry to hear about your breakup. To compound matters you moved to another country to be with him....yikes!

 

If you don't mind sharing, how long were you two together? Did he give you any reason for the split?

 

My ex broke up with me abruptly in Jan and went stone cold no contact with me. Even at my weakest moment when I feared I would harm myself he showed no concern. I could have dropped dead and he did not care.

 

It took some time, but I eventually snapped out of my depression and tried to get my life back on track. Just as I was feeling optimistic about my future, he contacted me. I was more than willing to engage him, because I wanted to find out what the hell happened and what was going thur his mind during those months of no contact.

 

He came back sweet and strong...as I expected he would. I felt I could test the waters with him again to see how things went. After a month, he turned distant again, claiming to be busy for the next 100 days. WTH! Also, he stated his work was so demanding that his life is not his own.

 

What a crock of BS. This is a man who does exactly as he pleases, when he pleases. Yes he does spend a lot of time at work, but he also spend a lot of time at the local pub around the corner from his job, drinking one beer after the other. A real "bar fly" , he seems to enjoy the drunken camaraderie.

 

Anyway, I did not waste too much time this time around. I gave him a month, saw the pattern develop again, put the ball in his court and when he couldn't/wouldn't step up...I fled.

 

Holy gosh, I wish things were different, I really do. Still think about him way too much, but for now this is the way it is and one day I will not think about him at all.

[Ayla]

Hey Juno,

 

Yeah he moved their and then I followed. I honestly thought that we were meant to eb together forever. Unfortunately the country we moved to is not an easy one to live in as a young, childless couple - there is not much to do there other than drink, travel and hang out the pub at with friends until 5am in the morning. We were together for 1.75 years.

 

He broke up with me with no warning at the end of March - one week after telling me that what we had was better than most couples. The day of the break up - he cried, I cried, he was not sure if it was the right thing to do - but he wanted to be single and did not want to have to be responsible to someone else (eg call and let them know when he was late), he did not want to have to compromise on things (eg what he thougth was right was what he did eg he did not think that he had to sometimes tell me I was beautiful as his actions told me that).

 

I do believe he loved/s me, but with all the things I have read about commitment phobia is that the person becomes destructive in the relationship, they have a fear of losing their identitiy and no matter how much they love someone they talk themselves out of it and do anything to destry the relationship. There is a lot more to it - but google it and my ex bf suits it to a tea.

 

To add insult to injury - 3 dys after we broke up, whilst I was still in our home packing (him at a hotel) he slept with someone else - just sex. The next day he came to see me and was so cold and mean. I have not heard from him since. I imagine that I will hear from him soon - but for now he is too proud and too weak to contact me cos he knows he treated me very badly. In the last 4 weeks I have only contacted him twice - so I think I am doing ok.

 

My friends say that he is very quiet and not himself, and he is certainly not home much..so I am sure he is avoiding our place cos it causes too much emotion and is just "having fun" trying to forget me and focussing even more on work.

 

So yeah - in a small nut shell that is my story....