SidLyon Posted April 24, 2009 Posted April 24, 2009 In other threads I've outlined my story. In a nutshell my H visited sex workers, met with other women from work and internet dating sites (he claims he was unsuccessful in getting very far and the evidence I found supported that) and had a 3.5 year affair ending nearly 4 years ago however last year they attempted to rekindle it (again without success and again the evidence I found supported that). We have been married 15 years (together 20) and this was going on for about the last 8 years. We have twins age 14. I was aware there were problems in our marriage as we had grown apart and our sex life, while satisfactory, was infrequent. He claims it all happened because of the emotional distance between us and the infrequent sex. Again he claims he was never going to leave me and again the evidence I have supports that including the OW tearily telling me this only last week. Over the years there was obviously major deception of me, complete betrayal and I suspect in his own mind my husband had "demonised" me. For my part I was unhappy and a nagger. I found out everything on the same day and just about collapsed from the shock of it all. I don't need to describe the feelings I'm sure as any BS has probably gone through the same thing. Since D day (6 months ago) my H has never significantly wavered in saying that he loves me, wants to stay with me, grow old with me (etc etc) and we have dramatically improved our sex life. We have had couple counseling and individual counseling and our counselors seem very positive - one saying that if anyone could make a marriage work then we could. My H has answered all my questions and made available to me his phone records, work time-sheets, work e-mail and private e-mail accounts. It has been important to me that he is engaging with me emotionally in a way that more or less disappeared when we were busy with 2 babies. I guess the question I'd like to ask is what do the 'experienced' posters on this forum think our chances are of making our marriage work? Yes or No? S
Athena Posted April 24, 2009 Posted April 24, 2009 I don't know if you would consider me an experienced poster, since I only have seven hundred odd posts, however I am experienced in my marriage with a man who has cheated. For the first seven years he was faithful, and then he cheated.... several times, even after each consecutive D-Day, after he promised change, and showed remorse, he would still wind up cheating when I began to trust him again. M is going on for 23 years now, I just uncovered Affair #8 recently. What I see is its not merely the cheating. It is his severely flawed character. So, as much as my H and I love each other, have great sex, etc etc, I see now that he will never change because of his flawed character. What is your H's character like? Is he willing to lie to cover his ass? Is he 'addicted' to his 'hobby'? I would say your H -- who has been cheating on your for the past several years (half of your M) will not change... he may manage to hold off for a while, and then, when the M has been 'saved', it'll be 'back to business'. Sorry, but you did ask for my honest thoughts.
Author SidLyon Posted April 24, 2009 Author Posted April 24, 2009 I don't know if you would consider me an experienced poster, since I only have seven hundred odd posts, however I am experienced in my marriage with a man who has cheated. For the first seven years he was faithful, and then he cheated.... several times, even after each consecutive D-Day, after he promised change, and showed remorse, he would still wind up cheating when I began to trust him again. M is going on for 23 years now, I just uncovered Affair #8 recently. What I see is its not merely the cheating. It is his severely flawed character. So, as much as my H and I love each other, have great sex, etc etc, I see now that he will never change because of his flawed character. What is your H's character like? Is he willing to lie to cover his ass? Is he 'addicted' to his 'hobby'? I would say your H -- who has been cheating on your for the past several years (half of your M) will not change... he may manage to hold off for a while, and then, when the M has been 'saved', it'll be 'back to business'. Sorry, but you did ask for my honest thoughts. Thank you Athena - this is my fear and what I dread above all else. I am taking a huge risk but I have decided that if it happens again there will be no next chance. I don't think I could be like you and go through it over and over again - 8 times did you say? It makes me so very sad not just for myself but for others in the same position - I am conscious of loving him, wanting to believe him, accepting that his intentions are good at the present time but worrying that ultimately love, belief and good intentions might not be enough. S
Athena Posted April 24, 2009 Posted April 24, 2009 Did you ever suspect him before D-day? I would be concerned that your intuition did not warn you of his clandestine activities before... perhaps he is just too much of a good liar?
Author SidLyon Posted April 24, 2009 Author Posted April 24, 2009 Did you ever suspect him before D-day? I would be concerned that your intuition did not warn you of his clandestine activities before... perhaps he is just too much of a good liar? _____________________________________________________________ I had so few clues and none that pointed directly to infidelity and none that could have led to some more concrete evidence. My computer/internet "research" skills have markedly improved since starting my law degree. Once I caught him chatting on line to another woman, I was able to find and hack into his profile on a dating website (which revealed his chats and meetings with women on there) and also a secret hotmail account (revealing more of the same plus the attempts to rekindle the affair). He then came home confessed all this plus the sex workers and another woman from work. My H is a very quiet and shy man - he writes wonderfully well but is not so articulate when talking in person. He does not like crowds and socialising - ha. This has been the biggest tragedy of my life. S
tami-chan Posted April 24, 2009 Posted April 24, 2009 What's in it for you if you stay in the marriage?
Author SidLyon Posted April 24, 2009 Author Posted April 24, 2009 To Tami and Lizzie, I am 51 and he is 48 - that is the easy question. As for what's in it for me. Much more difficult to answer. If not for this gross betrayal I would have said we had a good life with our 2 children, apart from the lack of intimacy. I had decided I would "get by" without that because of the other good things in life. However what has happened has tainted and corrupted all my good memories of married and family life for the past few years and made me realise that a marriage without intimacy was very risky and a poor choice. I accept that no way can we go back to the old life as I, our marriage and family life was being seriously undermined without my knowledge or consent. So if we are successful in regaining our marriage there are many positives for me in that we have a more functional family life for the 4 of us and a settled home life for our children. At the moment there is a lot of intimacy, honesty and emotional connection which is great and if this can continue I will be able to attain some level of forgiveness and acceptance of what has happened. There will no longer be "blind trust" but a trust qualified by some level of questioning and an expectation for a high level of honesty. However all this is tempered by us both still being on the emotional roller coaster. I feel that I can afford to give it some time to see how it turns out - but will be very hurt and disappointed if it doesn't. Don't know if I've answered your question - some of this I haven't yet thought through enough. S
scootncash Posted April 24, 2009 Posted April 24, 2009 Hi SidLyon, I was once in your shoes not to the exact but close enough. I'll only say this much: My life was destroyed, like my very being ripped out from my soul. You yourself know at this point there arent really any words that can describe this life altering pain and demoliton to your family. I went and got help. No medications I didnt want to be numb and asking for more while going thru the motions. I found a really good therapist and she turned me onto a book that saved my life. I didnt stay in the relationship and I will admit it certainly wasnt a cake walk. The pain stayed for quite a long while and greeted me like an old friend on a daily basis. But what I did find out was gold. I found out not only what he was doing to destroy us and that honestly it really wasnt my fault for his betrayl to a certain degree. I also had to face my own demons for what I brought to the relationship that helped to aid in the very position we were in. Its like an addictive drug when you stay in this. Its a sickness and a need and fear controls every little thing you do, problem is you dont realize it so you make excuses and find reasons to try again afterall you love this man with all your heart and soul and you'll do anything to make it work. And right there lies the wrong...YOU will do anything to make it work but he W ONT. But he sure fools you into believing he will. He does say he wont do it again, it was wrong, he was sorry, etc. The question you have to ask yourself is does he really mean it? Look at what he does not what he says and in those actions you have the answer. The thing is if its not what you wanted to know do you accept it or do you keep making excuses. Thats quite a responsibility as a parent as to what you do because your children learn from what they see. So ask yourself whats important not only to you but what is a good example for them to carry into their adult relationships. You have to decide what is right for you because each person has their own decision to make about their relationship. We also have to face our fears and know that no matter the outcome whether we stay or whether we go, our decision is most important for yourself and your children. The book is LOVE MUST BE TOUGH by Dr. Townsend and Dr. Cloud. If you have a barnes and nobles you can get it there. Also they have another book about boundries. I cannot describe to you exactly how these two men knew how I felt but reading that book was like they were right there going thru my own story with me. Hope this helps, I will certainly send my prayers your way. Life gets better and the journey is tough but its worth going thru to get to the light at the end of this tunnel!
OWoman Posted April 24, 2009 Posted April 24, 2009 Sid, that you're asking this question: what do the 'experienced' posters on this forum think our chances are of making our marriage work? Yes or No? despite this assurance: Since D day (6 months ago) my H has never significantly wavered in saying that he loves me, wants to stay with me, grow old with me (etc etc) and we have dramatically improved our sex life. We have had couple counseling and individual counseling and our counselors seem very positive - one saying that if anyone could make a marriage work then we could. My H has answered all my questions and made available to me his phone records, work time-sheets, work e-mail and private e-mail accounts. It has been important to me that he is engaging with me emotionally in a way that more or less disappeared when we were busy with 2 babies. suggests that something about that assurance falls short of convincing you that all will be well. Is this a response to something in particular (either in his behaviour, or in your own gut response warning you of something) or are you simply overwhelmed by the enormity of it all and wondering if the massive investment required of you will be worth it in the long run?
Adunaphel Posted April 24, 2009 Posted April 24, 2009 I hate to say this and I remind you that it is just my own opinion, but I think that the chances are very slim. 1) you had to investigate and hack into his online accounts, it was not his decision to come clean. 2) his reaction is certainly genuine and he does not want to lose you, but you do not know if he has actually got a huge wake up call and does not want to cheat on you anymore or if it is just crocodile tears. 3) that is too much infidelity for someone who does not know what he is doing. Escorts. Women he knew online. A 3.5 years long affair. Perhaps things are actually going to change. But even if he never cheated again, would you be able to trust him? Checking costantly on someone is not a nice way to live.
bentnotbroken Posted April 24, 2009 Posted April 24, 2009 I can't answer your question. I am not qualified or know you and your husband well enough to make that judgement. But I would like to ask you a few questions for you to think about. 1) Do you really want to continue in this relationship. 2)If the answer is yes, then what do you want out of this relationship? What do you want from him? 3)Are you capable of moving forward without dragging the past with you? 4)Do either of you have the stamina to work harder than you have ever worked in your lives to have a successful, fulfilling marriage? 5)What can he do to met your needs? What can you do to met his? 6)Are you willing to trudge through the sh! t to get to the diamond? 7)Is he the man(his core values, morals, and boundaries)you want as a husband? 8)What is holding you back from completely committing to recovery? 9)Are you willing to risk your heart with him again? 10)Are you willing to work on your issues and make continuous improvement to make yourself and your relationship better? 11)Do you trust him with your life(because that's what staying with him means)? 12)Can you become a better more peaceful person with or without him? 13)Marital satisfaction is described as when expectations are met or exceeded, can he meet or exceed your expectations? Can you? 14) Is there enough of a foundation there(not the kids)to rebuild? 15)Do you love him? Does he love you? I'm not talking about that romantic bullcrap. I am talking about the things that really important. The kind that can take a hit and come back stronger than ever. The kind that sees temptation and runs the other way. I have more, but these will get you started evaluating to answer your questions. They will make you think deeply about which direction is best for you to move in. God bless you.
Snowflower Posted April 24, 2009 Posted April 24, 2009 bentnotbroken, I know the questions you posted were directed to Sid, but I really liked the questions that you asked. My situation is different from Sid's and I made the decision to work toward forgiveness and recovery my marriage. My H has been working as hard or harder than me to recover our marriage and my trust after his betrayal. Every so often though, I second-guess myself. Not because of anything he is doing, it's just me and my fears. I do think this list of questions will keep me "on track" with my decision to recover the marriage. Good post and list of questions. Thank you.
Athena Posted April 24, 2009 Posted April 24, 2009 Wow BentnotBroken! Excellent post, very good questions... am going to apply them to my situation, thank you!
Mr. Lucky Posted April 24, 2009 Posted April 24, 2009 15)Do you love him? Does he love you? I'm not talking about that romantic bullcrap. I am talking about the things that really important. The kind that can take a hit and come back stronger than ever. The kind that sees temptation and runs the other way. I don't want to be negative, but doesn't she already have the answer to this? When someone has failed to be faithful on multiple occasions, then it's more about their personal demons and less about any strengths and weaknesses in the relationship. Sidlyon, what would scare me in your situation is that you could be the best partner, loving spouse and most passionate sexual mate and it might not have any impact in your H's future decision to cheat. That's a hard way to live... Mr. Lucky
Author SidLyon Posted April 25, 2009 Author Posted April 25, 2009 Many thanks to those who responded. You have all given me something to think about and issues I must consider. I can only make my own decisions and I have undertaken to myself and to my H to give it time and put myself wholeheartedly into re-establishing a good marriage - which will not be just for the sake of the kids. He has made a similar undertaking to me. We are both aware of the risk I am taking - it is the same sort of risk anybody takes in entering/continuing a relationship (although the probability of infidelity is altered). The fact that the worst has already occurred can mean that (a) it's more likely to happen again and (b) I now know what to look out for. We both accept that we can never go back to our old marriage and that the level and nature of trust will be changed forever. I have made a promise to myself that I will not accept dishonesty anymore. There were a couple of occasions in the past where I discovered (eg from a speeding fine issued in a suburb nowhere near where he supposedly went) my H was not where he was supposed to be and he managed to convince me that there was a good reason for it. I have also made it clear that I will take any further transgressions as a conscious decision by him to end our marriage. Obviously I have no direct control over what he chooses but we are now both clear on what his choices will mean for our marriage. And for those that want to point out the obvious that this should have been clear before - I agree - but I am giving him another chance. I take on board that most of those that have responded consider we will be "up against the odds" in saving our marriage. I feel that my choices to either leave or stay in the marriage are both unpalatable; but the choice to stay, if it works out, will be best for me. The overall situation however is something I would never had chosen and I am sad to be in this position. S
65tr6 Posted April 25, 2009 Posted April 25, 2009 it is the same sort of risk anybody takes in entering/continuing a relationship (although the probability of infidelity is altered). The fact that the worst has already occurred can mean that (a) it's more likely to happen again and (b) I now know what to look out for. We both accept that we can never go back to our old marriage and that the level and nature of trust will be changed forever. I take on board that most of those that have responded consider we will be "up against the odds" in saving our marriage. SidLyon, On your first statement above, you are exactly right. As to the chances of it happening again, it depends a LOT on you. And how you handle the post d-day going forward. My wife and I are now recovering. As much devastated I was seven months ago, I know she will not cheat again. She is very remorseful. You have to handle the post affair in a manner that your husband clearly knows that this is it. This is the only chance he gets. I strongly believe if you both work hard....initially it will be just you, mind you......you can do it. Yes you now know what to look for. Your husband needs to come clean about everything he has done in the last 8 years. Yes most posters here will ask you to leave your relationship and you have every right to do it. It is obvious that you want to stay and I applaud you. Know that there is plenty of support, books that you can depend on. Do not hesitate to reach out for ask for help.
tami-chan Posted April 26, 2009 Posted April 26, 2009 If you do not want leave and your WS stays the same, can you learn to be indifferent?
Author SidLyon Posted April 26, 2009 Author Posted April 26, 2009 If you do not want leave and your WS stays the same, can you learn to be indifferent? No if he does it again our marriage will be over. S
bentnotbroken Posted April 26, 2009 Posted April 26, 2009 No if he does it again our marriage will be over. S Syd, I pray for your strength, but I have a feeling that you have your eyes wide open and you have all the tools you need to succeed which ever direction you life takes. Many blessings Syd:)
tami-chan Posted April 26, 2009 Posted April 26, 2009 No if he does it again our marriage will be over. S Good luck, I think it is a very steep climb.
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