6MonthsIn Posted April 23, 2009 Posted April 23, 2009 Hi and thank you in advance for any help or advice you can offer me. I apologize in advance for the length of my story... My H and I met in HS (did not date, we were only friends) lost touch after HS and bumped into each other about 4 years later. We quickly fell for each other, spending all of our free time together and developing a fantastic relationship. We moved in together after 6 months of dating. Almost 2 years into our relationship, my BF came home one night and told me out of the blue "I don't think this is what I want anymore". Of course, I was devastated, it was December 30th, we had just had an amazing Christmas and I thought everything was fine. After hours of talking and crying, he jumped in the shower, so I grabbed his cell phone thinking there must be someone else. I found a few graphic texts from an unnamed contact, so I called the number and when a woman answered, I hung up. I confronted him in the shower and asked if there was another girl and he told me no. I never told him that I called the number or that I saw the texts. At the time he was working in an industry that involved plumbing and electrical trades and the dirty texts were disguised in that type of language (ex. "I can't wait to stuff that leaky faucet"). Although I knew he was lying, I was so happy with him and loved him so much that I was willing to put this all behind me and take him at his word that there was no other girl. Shortly after, he told me that he really did want to be with me and that he was just having a short term crisis that made him feel that way. It took a few months of intense talking and trust building exercises for me to feel comfortable with him again and stop feeling like he was just going to come home one day and tell me it was over. Eventually, we got there and I felt that we had a much stronger relationship afterwards as a result. I was thrilled! Fast forward about 3.5 years. We have since continued to have an amazing relationship, got engaged 2 years ago, bought a house, got a puppy and got married. About 3 months into our marriage, his best friend moved in with us because he split up from his girlfriend, but we didn't mind having the extra rent money at the time. So, we've been living the newlywed life in our perfect house that we practically built ourselves with our dog and his best friend. About 2 weeks ago, my H came home from work and was just plain acting strangely, so I decided to snoop on his work emails. I found some extremely inappropriate emails between him and a former coworker from his old job that he left almost 4 years ago. They started about a month ago, talking about meeting up for lunch when he was going to the city where she works. He had a doctor's appointment there and decided to strike up conversation with her and invite her to lunch. Over the course of the month, the emails were friendly for a while, then became incredibly inappropriate. The emails were the same context as the texts from 3.5 years ago, so I knew it was the same woman. The emails were about them "daydreaming" about each other and went so far as for her to suggest finding a "new shop" to do service work in since the "old shop is no longer open". She then even offered to come down to his new place of work about 2.5 hours from where she lives to "get lost" with him. As soon as I read the emails, I emailed him at work and asked him to come home ASAP, which he did. When he got home, I asked him if there was anything he felt I should know about and he actually came clean about the emails and lunch. This prompted me to ask "is it the same woman from 3.5 years ago" and he said yes. After a lot of crying and arguing, he came clean that he did actually have a sexual affair with her 3.5 years ago. He only worked with her for a couple of months, but after he left the job, they stayed in touch through email. Apparently the emails were very graphic, so much so that she convinced him to take a train about an hour from where we live to meet up with her for a one night stand. This happened a few weeks before the night he told me he didn't want to be with me anymore. Supposedly it was his guilt and lack of backbone to tell me the truth that made him say these things. After finally coming clean, my H broke down, started crying and pleading with me not to leave him and swore to do anything to fix this. Again, we've only been married 6 months now and he's having an email affair with a woman he previously cheated on me with... ouch. I told him the first thing he needed to do was call her, with me on speakerphone and tell her I knew about everything, 3.5 years ago, the emails, etc. and tell her they will never speak again, through email or otherwise. Did I mention that she's married too? She was married for 3.5 years at the time of the one night stand, so now they're married about 7 years. He called her, and I of course made a few comments of my own of course. I asked her if her husband knew about the affair and she said "yes" and i asked if he knew that they met for lunch and she said "yes". I knew she was lying, and it was killing me to think that this woman was going to go home and pretend all was well with her and her husband while my young marriage was falling apart. I decided to do some detective work and contact her husband. It was not an easy thing to do, knowing how that person will feel, but I honestly feel that if I was in his shoes, I would want someone to call me and tell me what they knew. I called him on a Saturday morning, when they were sitting together having their morning coffee, and naturally he was clueless. She never came clean to him either and he was just as devastated as I was. My H made an appointment with a marriage counselor the next day and really showed his honest remorse and will to change to fix things. We spent every waking moment discussing this situation and what got us here. I asked him every detail of the affair which he reluctantly divulged, not wanting to hurt me more, but understanding that I need to know the whole truth to ever have a chance at moving forward with him. I know that my H had a rough childhood, never feeling good enough, low self esteem, etc. and I'm sure it contributed to this situation, but I don't feel that he can totally place blame on a crappy childhood. He knowingly got on a train to meet this woman he hadn't seen in months for a one night stand! After the affair, they met for lunch and he told her he couldn't even think of doing it again because he truly was happy with me and didn't want to risk it. He also said that he was feeling bad about himself since we weren't having as much sex as we should (I mentioned the puppy and the roommate right?) but rather than talk to me about it and exchange dirty emails with me, he looked elsewhere. Although I love my H very much and I want things to work out, I am so deeply hurt by his lies and I am unsure that I will ever get past it. The kicker is, we've been spending a lot of time lately talking about having a baby and we had actually planned on going off BC this month and starting to actively try to get pregnant. The day he was exchanging these dirty emails with this woman, I was calling my OBGYN setting up an appointment for a check up to make sure I am healthy enough to get pregnant. With all of these different variables playing in our relationship, I am not sure what to do next. We are seeing a counselor and I have decided to commit to fixing our relationship. I know it might sound crazy to some, but this is honestly the only thing we've ever truly fought over in over 5 years. Our relationship is so strong otherwise, I still have hope I guess that we can get past this and move on with our plans. Aside from just venting, I am looking for anyone who has been in a similar situation and can offer any advice. I truly believe in him and I truly believe that he can and will change. My only problems are my own mind betraying me. I keep having visions of him getting on the train to meet her... it makes me so physically ill! I've been throwing up for 2 weeks pretty much. I am also looking for advice from anyone about starting a family. After this whole situation died down a bit, about a week ago, I told him that I felt so disappointed to have to put that dream on hold because of something so stupid as his inability to talk to me and pursuing an online affair with another woman. Am I crazy for still wanting to have a baby at this point?? Even if I truly believe in him? He says and does the right things, showing that it's what he truly wants too, but is that enough? Any advice is welcome at this point, just please no "once a cheater, always a cheater". I don't believe in that. I believe that people can change only when they are fully aware of how they need to change and are fully committed to the idea of changing. Thank you so much for taking the time to read this ridiculous novel!!!!
Author 6MonthsIn Posted April 23, 2009 Author Posted April 23, 2009 I forgot to mention that he has since blocked her email through his work administrator, which he showed to me. Anything with her name on it is automatically deleted. He also comes home every day and shows me his phone calls and googles the phone numbers for me if they come from an area code near hers. (This was all his idea, trying to prove to me that he wants to work this out.)
Athena Posted April 23, 2009 Posted April 23, 2009 So if you truly believe he can, and will, change go ahead and have your baby! After all, it will be something extra for him to stand to lose, thus acting as even more of an incentive for him to walk on the straight and narrow path of fidelity in your marriage.
bean1 Posted April 23, 2009 Posted April 23, 2009 I must disagree - a child should not be brought into a home that is not yet stable. If you and he agree to work together and overcome this, make sure that trust is rebuilt and the home is stable before bringing a child into it. I do not agree that a child should be used as leverage or incentive. It is naive to think that a man will change because of a baby (which of course will likely result in less sex and causes enough stress even in marriages were there is complete fidelity). A man will change because he and only he wants to. A woman can beg and plead and try and change him through fatherhood, but it is up to him to truly change.
Athena Posted April 23, 2009 Posted April 23, 2009 I do not agree that a child should be used as leverage or incentive. 6monthsIn, by the way, I did not mean it the way the poster says it above, that you blackmail H with the baby in order to be faithful to you... nope, I meant IF YOU absolutely feel he WILL be faithful to you (as you said you truly believe he will) then go ahead and have your baby! It could take months and months to fall pregnant... and another 40 weeks of pregnancy... and do you want to postpone all that after being with this man for five years? If you do wish to postpone the pregnancy, then do so, but you seemed really annoyed that you might have to do this. And you seemed pretty sure that he would not cheat again. So why wait? If anything, the baby will make him feel like that's another good reason NOT to cheat!
GorillaTheater Posted April 23, 2009 Posted April 23, 2009 I don't know, Athena, it seems pretty dicey to me to start making baby plans at this point. The latest affair (although we don't know for sure that it wasn't one long continuous affair) came to light only two weeks ago, and it seems far wiser to me to allow the dust to settle for at at least a few months so 6monthsin can have some realistic assurances that her H has truly recommitted to the marriage. After all, the guy doesn't have such a great track record so far.
Athena Posted April 23, 2009 Posted April 23, 2009 PS: It could take YEARS for your feeling of Trust to come back! So, where do you draw the line? Do you give it a period of Time -- say, two years, to see 'how you feel' and whether you 'trust' him... or do you ask him to tell you when he thinks you two should get pregnant (he already told you he wants a baby, months back, and HE was in full possession of the truth, wasn't he?). So how would you know when a better time is? Just wondering! The roller coaster ride of Infidelity take hellishly long to get off of!
Athena Posted April 23, 2009 Posted April 23, 2009 After all, the guy doesn't have such a great track record so far. Lol, this is true!
Lizzie60 Posted April 23, 2009 Posted April 23, 2009 My thoughts... DON'T have a baby now.. wait maybe two or three years.. don't talk about the 'baby' or about the A.. just try to forgive and forget about it. Why wait? because I can almost swear that this M won't work out.. Sorry but from what I read here.. this guy will not be faithful for very long. It might get worst when the baby arrives (if you decide to have one)... You may think he will change because YOU REALLY WANT him to.. but trust me.. he won't... well he will.. for the time being until he's quite sure you have forgiven him and forget about this whole mess.. then he will fall for someone else.. You've been together for such a long time.. that you're like an 'old couple' now.. no more passion.. he probably craves that passion.. that 'excitement'... We are sooo not 'geared' like men..
Author 6MonthsIn Posted April 23, 2009 Author Posted April 23, 2009 Thank you so much for taking the time to respond. I feel so stuck sometimes because I can't really go to my friends or family with any of this. I'm afraid that if they knew the truth, even if he and I work it out completely, they'll never forgive him and our family holidays and get togethers (which are pretty frequent) will never feel the same. I don't mean to sound annoyed about postponing the idea of getting pregnant, however it's a pretty accurate diagnosis. My first priority is making our marriage work, making sure we're happy together and fulfilled with each other. Having a baby is only a priority when all of those things are fulfilled. Athena , you brought up a good point, how will you ever know when the time IS right? This is what I've been battling with for the past week. Anyone who knows us, knows that we don't half ass things. When we decide to do something, anything, we throw ourselves into it and don't stop until we get to where we want to be. Perhaps that's why I seem so certain that we can work through this.
GorillaTheater Posted April 23, 2009 Posted April 23, 2009 he probably craves that passion.. that 'excitement'... We are sooo not 'geared' like men.. Coming from almost any other woman on this forum, this wouldn't seem nearly as ironic.
bean1 Posted April 23, 2009 Posted April 23, 2009 It is still too new and raw for you to be able to comprehend when the baby thing will seem "right" or when the trust will return. You are going through a lot and I think you have your priorities straight - work on the marriage first. A marriage MUST be strong in order to survive the stress of a child.
Mr. Lucky Posted April 23, 2009 Posted April 23, 2009 I truly believe in him and I truly believe that he can and will change. My only problems are my own mind betraying me. I keep having visions of him getting on the train to meet her... it makes me so physically ill! I've been throwing up for 2 weeks pretty much. On some level, one part of your brain disagrees with your first statement. And as long as that conflict exists, you should hold off on having a child. You'll know in the next 6-12 months whether or not he is really committed to doing the work necessary to fix things. Until you have that answer, probably best to stay the course. I hope it works out for you... Mr. Lucky
SidLyon Posted April 24, 2009 Posted April 24, 2009 I'm not sure how old you are but if you are still under 38 please put your baby plans on hold until your marriage is sorted out. Even if you are in your mid 30s or older I suggest you only consider having a baby if you are prepared to become a single mum in worst case scenario. A pregnancy and baby will only complicate things. You have only just found out and the next few months will be a horrific roller coaster for you. I am now 6 months out from D day and still on the roller coaster, still in counseling and I have a very remorseful, apologetic husband who has virtually unfailingly done all the right things in the last few months with very minor exceptions. Both my GP and counselors have said time is on my side - just take the baby steps - no giant leaps such as getting pregnant. S
Heroic Posted April 24, 2009 Posted April 24, 2009 This guy has lied to you for years. He has cheated on you 2x....that you know of.... And you are worried about what your family thinks...... You should be planning your exit strategy. Several years from now you will be in this same position cursing yourself for being a fool and believing his lies. Ever hear "Fool me once shame on you, fool me twice shame on me." You're working on fool me THRICE
sugarmomma Posted April 24, 2009 Posted April 24, 2009 Its like picking up a snake that has bitten the hell out of you once then you pick it up again and get bitten for the second time. The snake simply says "why would you pick me up again? You knew I was a snake!" You are not going to be able to blame him the next time he crushes you. You need to work on why you feel a need to be with someone who could cause you such horrible pain. Maybe a little bit of a glutton for punishment? Stop trying to save face. Eventually your family and everyone will find out what a snake he is. You seem to be in deep denial about a relationship that has no trust, honesty, and respect, all of which are vital to a healthy relationship. He knows that you will take him back and your desperation is saying "a baby will make it all go away". It won't. Believe me. He knows that you are forgiving and trusting and loyal to a fault. Self Sacrifice is not a character building trait. I would like to make a motion- that you face reality!! He will do it again. Maybe not for years but it will happen.
citizen67 Posted April 24, 2009 Posted April 24, 2009 So if you truly believe he can, and will, change go ahead and have your baby! After all, it will be something extra for him to stand to lose, thus acting as even more of an incentive for him to walk on the straight and narrow path of fidelity in your marriage. that sounds really unfair to the baby - to be "something for him to lose" and "an incentive"
Athena Posted April 24, 2009 Posted April 24, 2009 that sounds really unfair to the baby - to be "something for him to lose" and "an incentive" Yeah, I know. However, as soon as I read her original post where she writes please not to tell her "once a cheater always a cheater" and she had previously stated she truly believes he will change (i.e. NOT cheat again) -- well then! The whole problem to her M now is that he DID cheat... but she tells us not to say he's gonna cheat again (which, by the way, I believe he is likely to), and she states he's gonna be faithful -- well -- since THAT was the issue (his cheating), then why not go ahead and have your baby! See what I mean?
whichwayisup Posted April 24, 2009 Posted April 24, 2009 Sadly, your whole marriage he's more or less been cheating on you. He hasn't changed his ways, even when you forgave him the first time years ago.. Honestly, as painful as it is on you, you'll be better off divorcing because all his actions have shown you he can't and won't live up to his marriage vows, and be faithful to you. You deserve so much better..Yes, you love him - But what is it that you actually love about him? LOVE yourself more and kick him out. IF he does love you enough, he'll do counselling, he'll make the earth move to be with you and seek counselling, completely end it with the OW (Sorry, I don't believe that A is over, he's just put in the down low mode until he feels things have calmed down) and show you not only in words, but actions that he can be faithful, trustworthy and husband material. So far, he ISN'T. If you let him stay, things will remain the same. He'll have his cake and eat it too. LET HIM suffer consquences! People don't change unless they have to, or really want to. He's had it good for so long, let him go and fix himself, prove he's changed.
TOWinNYC Posted April 24, 2009 Posted April 24, 2009 6Months- I say wait. Even if it's for a little while. Why? Because you just found out about all this. Everyone thinks babies are great but they turn your life upside down! So the recovery process of D-day + wacked out hormones of being pregnant + being a new parent + possible post partum depression = LOTS OF STRESS!!! (and that usually leads to not wanting to have sex, which according to your post, was one of the "reasons" for your H having an A?) Do you seriously want to deal with something like that? Also, I know someone who has been involved in a long-term A and it was only AFTER he got married and had a child that he realized he "really" belongs with his A-partner and is seriously considering jumping ship (I'm not suggesting that this is your situation but a warning/side note to the potential of being a single parent). It sounds like your H is willing to work on your M - that's great. Keep doing what the two of you are doing and hold off on the kid thing for a bit. I wish you the best!
sugarmomma Posted April 24, 2009 Posted April 24, 2009 Yeah, I know. However, as soon as I read her original post where she writes please not to tell her "once a cheater always a cheater" and she had previously stated she truly believes he will change (i.e. NOT cheat again) -- well then! The whole problem to her M now is that he DID cheat... but she tells us not to say he's gonna cheat again (which, by the way, I believe he is likely to), and she states he's gonna be faithful -- well -- since THAT was the issue (his cheating), then why not go ahead and have your baby! See what I mean? I see exactly what you mean. Go ahead and dig the hole a little deeper.
pelicanpreacher Posted April 24, 2009 Posted April 24, 2009 6Months- I say wait. Even if it's for a little while. Why? Because you just found out about all this. Everyone thinks babies are great but they turn your life upside down! So the recovery process of D-day + wacked out hormones of being pregnant + being a new parent + possible post partum depression = LOTS OF STRESS!!! (and that usually leads to not wanting to have sex, which according to your post, was one of the "reasons" for your H having an A?) Do you seriously want to deal with something like that? Also, I know someone who has been involved in a long-term A and it was only AFTER he got married and had a child that he realized he "really" belongs with his A-partner and is seriously considering jumping ship (I'm not suggesting that this is your situation but a warning/side note to the potential of being a single parent). It sounds like your H is willing to work on your M - that's great. Keep doing what the two of you are doing and hold off on the kid thing for a bit. I wish you the best! This is the kind of discussion you'd better have with your husband prior to undertaking your sojourn into parenthood. Let him know in no uncertain terms that if he will not partner with you in every way shape or form in this endeavor then the baby cannot be. I also agree that you need to wait before embarking on this venture for approximately 2-3 years to be sure that you have completely forgiven his betrayal and that he has truly seen the light and has learned from the errors of his ways. Placing a child in the fray too soon would result in the ultimate injustice because a child deserves the love, happiness, and security of two parents working successfully on the same page.
Author 6MonthsIn Posted April 24, 2009 Author Posted April 24, 2009 Again, thank you all for your posts. I think one thing that is being misunderstood is that my H did not actually have the physical affair since marriage, only inappropriate emails. I'm not saying it's ok, I just think that some of you misunderstood. In each situation/email, she has been the aggressor, making initial moves to try and suck my H into the game. He controlled his responses up until 2 weeks ago. I know that the affair was not ongoing because I had periodically checked his email (which he didn't know I did) and all emails up until that point were friendly, and very few and far between (maybe once every 6-12 months). I'm assuming something must have happened in her life as well for her to seek out my H again and try to get him to repeat his actions from 3.5 years ago. I mean, she blatantly offered to come to the city where he works to "get lost", but to his credit, he never did respond to that particular email, that was the last one that was sent between the two of them. I think he might have realized it was getting out of hand and was trying to stop before I saw the emails, because he had more than enough time to respond, but chose not to. I honestly don't believe he just put everything on the DL, simply because I have access to everything, cell phone, work phone, all emails, facebook, etc. and he was more than happy to divulge all information. Aside from the fact that the man is a terrible liar and I can tell within minutes if something is up with him. Is there nobody out there who honestly feels that if a person recognizes their problems and faults they can change? Has nobody experienced a relationship where the person who cheated actually changed?? This is the only real problem we've ever truly had in our relationship, and honestly I'm not sure that I feel divorce is the right option at the time without giving it at least a chance to work. I agree with statements that it's best to wait for a while for a baby, but I already pretty much had resigned to that before original post. It's disheartening, but it's reality. What I'm really looking for here is someone who can share a previous life experience, what to expect, etc, not people to tell me to dump his ass. Believe me, if I were in your shoes, I'd probably say the same thing, however, I've committed myself to trying to fix this one flaw in our relationship. It's not an easy decision for anyone to make, however I'm also looking out for what I want in life. WIth the exception of this situation and the one from 3.5 years ago, we've had an incredible relationship and we have a great time together. We have an amazing sex life, although for a while it wasn't what it should be, but roommate is now leaving in order for us to go back to living just the 2 of us and work on our issues. Honestly, would you throw it all away because someone had a problem, admitted their problem and sought treatment to help with that problem? Or, would you give your young marriage a shot?
jwi71 Posted April 24, 2009 Posted April 24, 2009 Is there nobody out there who honestly feels that if a person recognizes their problems and faults they can change? Has nobody experienced a relationship where the person who cheated actually changed?? Sure I do. However, in addition to recognizing one's problems I DEMAND ACTIONS to rectify them. I DEMAND VERIFIABLE EFFORT...such as the openness you describe...and therapy, both joint and individual. Then I DEMAND VERIFIABLE RESULTS. Thoughts and behavior patterns changing in VISIBLE ways to MY satisfaction. And it takes time. I DEMAND CHANGE...not just words and the "easy" actions (openness). I expect the hard work too. Its up to YOU to decide if he is worth the time and hard work to salvage your M.
Athena Posted April 24, 2009 Posted April 24, 2009 Yes of course it is possible to change. If one really wants to, and works hard at keeping their frail boundaries up for the rest of their lives (never letting their guard down). The problem is you don't know how your H is going to FEEL on the inside in a year's time, or in five years time. While he may now be shocked into being a good boy, what's to stop him from wondering about Possibilities in the future? Will he want to work hard at keeping temptation at bay? Sounds like a lot of guarding and tending, whereas for others, fidelity comes easily. Give your husband another shot by all means. But never say never, for he doesn't even know for sure that he is not going to do it again in the future. I assure you, when I first found out about my H's first affair, based on the way he behaved -- cried, showed remorse, tried to straighten up, etc etc -- made me feel convinced he would never repeat his "mistake" (not really a mistake, but a choice)... I was wrong... he repeated the choice of infidelity several times more after that... it just took two years after the first affair to wear down his resolve.
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