redfathom Posted April 22, 2009 Posted April 22, 2009 What I always found funny over the past few years, having to do with the housing market, is how adamant people are against someone who forecloses. They talk non-stop about the contract you agreed to and sign. Whenever I asked them why that contract is more important then a marital contract they never had a response. I mean if they could sit there and tell me they are married to the same person and never been divorced I would agree that they could tell someone they have to sacrafice everything for a house they couldn't afford. It seems to me that everyone just loves to have someone to blame. Now it's time to blame Gay people. But OP, I agree with what you said, we have no right deciding what is right for anyone else. I didn't need permission to get married!
redfathom Posted April 22, 2009 Posted April 22, 2009 Show me proof of 2 guys who were faithful to each other for 50 years (Like many of our parents and grandparents) and I would reconsider my views. Show me two straight people who have been married for 50 years... What 50% of marriages end in divorce, usually due to infidelity. That statistic doesn't include the # of marriges where the couples were unfaithful but stayed together.
2sure Posted April 22, 2009 Posted April 22, 2009 'I may not approve of what you say but I will defend to the death your right to say it'? (who orig. said this is disputed) Whether or not I think gay marriage is morally right/wrong - Just like gun control and censorship ... Isn't it a matter of standing behind or disputing the Constitution?
manugeorge Posted April 22, 2009 Posted April 22, 2009 And to think a few years ago, people argued just as fervently against granting women equal rights and just a few years back, the same arguments against granting blacks and minorities equal rights. Thinking back on those who opposed to treating everyone as equals back then, we look at them as savages, prehistoric cavemen with underdeveloped brains. We incredulously think of them, "How could people have been so backwards?" It is disheartening that those parallel arguments are being made today, in 2009,...how far we've come indeed:rolleyes:. The more things change, the more they stay the same. Then again, it's easier to point and laugh when you are on the other side of the fence. If it's your rights to live as another human being that's being infringed upon, perhaps you would know just how hurtful it feels.
giotto Posted April 22, 2009 Posted April 22, 2009 It matters because two guys kissing each other with their beards rubbing together is gross I think you meant "moustache"... Jokes apart, we live in a modern world and it shoudn't matter anymore. Unfortunately, it does...
manugeorge Posted April 22, 2009 Posted April 22, 2009 Ah, a voice of sanity at last! You should weigh in on the gay marriage thread. I'm curious what you have to say about the statement by one particular person that people can choose who they are sexually attracted to. Oh I'm sure people can choose who they are sexually attracted to alright, yeah ok..., people knowingly and purposely choose to be attracted to the same sex. The very choice they KNOW for a fact will have them condemned, ridiculed, disowned, disrespected, hell, even killed. Yes indeed they made that choice willingly. How many countless countless gays have hidden their sexual orientation from the world? How many of them have led doubled lives and still live it till today just to avoid society's wrath? How many of them supress it, practice it on the "downlow" to avoid all the fuss? Do you think if these people can choose not to be gay, do you think they wouldn't jump at the chance? But alas, at the end of the day, they are still gay, aren't they? They just pretend not to be. Just like you can't peel off your skin color to become someone else, a homosexual cannot shed his/her sexual orientation. It is who they are, who they are born to be. No one wakes up one day and decides to be gay. Many come out of the closet in later years but will tell you they readily knew what they were before puberty hit.
TaraMaiden Posted April 22, 2009 Posted April 22, 2009 But men should have 26 weeks, not a measly 2 weeks. How discriminatory. http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/business/2916219.stm The reason women have 26 weeks is because (one) they have to physically recover from the physical ordeal of giving birth. bear in mind that childbirth is not always easy for all women. Some need intewrvention, and some simply have a difficult time. And (two) many women breastfeed, and therefore the mother needs to be with the child to do this. Milk can be expressed, but it is not an ideal situation. It has nothing to do with discrimination, it has everything to do with the physical commitment of motherhood.
Untouchable_Fire Posted April 22, 2009 Posted April 22, 2009 LSD? It really doesn't matter to anybody but the Neo-cons and they are against anything to do with HUMAN RIGHTS, being proper little Fascists. Neo-cons are different from religious conservatives. Why do you think Bush's approval ratings are like 12%... or why Obama won so big? It's because religious conservatives like me voted for Obama, and don't like Bush. As for who is a fascist... I'd say the Neo Cons are close, but the Secular Progressives are closer becuase of their belief in government control. I don't agree with what comes after changes, but I do feel bullied about it. It was her opinion and she is completely entitled to it. We are being bullied. She has her opinion and right to express it, just as Perez had the right to give her a 0 for a score.
39388 Posted April 22, 2009 Posted April 22, 2009 religious conservatives like me As for who is a fascist... I'd say the Neo Cons are close, but the Secular Progressives are closer becuase of their belief in government control. You have a right to be a religious conservative. Why must you trash people with other views by calling them fascists? You still have yet to provide any credible evidence on why gay marriage should be banned. The Dr. Spitzer "study" is not credible evidence because proper scientific protocol was not followed (not even close). I assume you know how the people were chosen for the "study".
boxing123 Posted April 22, 2009 Posted April 22, 2009 I know of many couples that have been together until one of them dies. Are all of your parents and grandparents swingers and cheaters? I have no indication that mine were. Yeah, I know a lesbian couple.. One of them "turned" gay and still screws young guys. They sit around and joke about it. I had the pleasure of meeting all of these freaks at a work party for my girlfriend. Trust me, none of them were even close to monogamous no matter how long they were together. I have never cheated in any relationship I was in. So do not say "All heteros are cheaters" because I am far above any sexual deviants you try to lump heteros together with.
GorillaTheater Posted April 22, 2009 Posted April 22, 2009 I am far above any sexual deviants you try to lump heteros together with. Of course it goes without saying that all the homos should be rounded up and sent to concentration camps in Hawaii where those volcanos can be put to good use, except for lipstick lesbians. They're kind of nice to have around.
Jake Barnes Posted April 22, 2009 Posted April 22, 2009 Yeah, I know a lesbian couple.. One of them "turned" gay and still screws young guys. They sit around and joke about it. I had the pleasure of meeting all of these freaks at a work party for my girlfriend. Trust me, none of them were even close to monogamous no matter how long they were together. Almost all the lesbians and maybe more than half the gays I've known actually go both ways Its a little known secret In fact I had quite a few gay acquintances when I worked as a waiter in South Florida. The restaurants there are so full of gays and cocaine its unbelivable One of the impressions I got was that many of the gay men had had bad experiences with women and had very low self esteem as a result and were afraid of women, so they decided "if you cant beat em' join em'" Yeah, Im saying they became gay. You guys think its so impossible and that its all nature, but lonliness and sexual frustration lead many down the road to depravity But of course this would all be much too dark and politically incorrect to examine the reality of the situation
Lizzie60 Posted April 22, 2009 Posted April 22, 2009 It doesn't matter to me.. as I think marriage is a religious bullsh*t thing to begin with.. other than for financial purposes (where it matters)... I think marriage is a waste of money... If gays want to get married .. who am I to say they shouldh't .. I'm hetero.. it won't affect me one bit..
boxing123 Posted April 22, 2009 Posted April 22, 2009 Jake exactly.. The idea that you are "born gay" is ridiculous.. Are people also born bi? Born a pedophile? Born a necropheliac? Born into beastiality? I will say that many people ARE born with mental illnesses, mental retardation, etc. Perhaps some of these mental illnesses LEAD people to sleep with members of the same sex. But it really is amazing how many gay men and women have sex with both sexes, or have in the past.
Jake Barnes Posted April 23, 2009 Posted April 23, 2009 Let me give som real life examples I've noticed in my life When my family moved from here down to Florida when I was in the Seventh grade I had a real hard time making friends as I was awkward, unathletic and a bit of a booking nerd. I finally made some friends in the nerd set and among them was another Cuban-American kid named Juan. Juan was very intelligent and a great artist, but he was also very unathletic and a bit soft. Now I know he was soft because he lived with his grandparents and like many Cuban grandparents they spoiled him, fed him well and didn't encourage physical activity as it was a sign of their success in this country that their descendants didn't have to dirty their hands if you will. So as a result of being soft Juan had a hard time with girls, but he loved them . He would cry about his unrequited crushes. He drew naked women all the time. Being young he found the best way to connect with girls was to be more and more like them. Sure he was being "friendzoned", but he was young and inexperienced and he was just thrilled to be in their company. Well, of coure Juan just became more and more feminine in his mannerisms even though his voice changed and he hit puberty early like many hispanics. As we deepened into adolescence the word was that Juan was "gay". I know he wasnt and he knew he wasn't, but that was the association and Im ashamed to admit I abonded my friendship with Juan like many did because of this. I saw Juan about seven years later when I went to a goth night that was held at a local gay bar in Tallahassee. But he wasnt dressed like a punk or a goth. He was dressed quite flamboyantly and he was there because he always hung out there...he was now a gay.
Jake Barnes Posted April 23, 2009 Posted April 23, 2009 Another example was an aquintance I made when I was working as a waiter named Jay Jay was not a very good looking fellow and he was divorced. He hated his wife and his kids with a passion. He like to talk about getting sodomized at work and sucking guys off because this sort of thing gave him and identity and attention that he otherwise would never have gotten I took Jay to a female strip club one time with me. He said he would go along just for the drinks. The whole time he was there he couldnt take his eyes off of the strippers. When they would come up to him he would act all hostile at first, but then he would tell them he was gay and they immediately started being really friendly with him in a genuine manner in a way they wouldnt with the straight guys I could tell Jay was really enjoying the attention he was getting from these good looking girls. When I dropped him off at his trailer he said we should do it again, but it was too pathetic for me to ever take him up on his offer
Jake Barnes Posted April 23, 2009 Posted April 23, 2009 Another example comes from my younger years before the explosion of the internet The internet and all of its filth werent widely available to the public when I was still 19-20 years old (Im 34) So when I was feeling horny and wanted to watch a skin flick I had to go to adult bookstores. As I was living with my parents I didnt dare bring the videos home, so I rented them there and watched them in the little cum-soaked booths where the perverts hung out I can't tell you the number of old men who came up to me trying to get me to do things with them. These same old pensioners probably paid prostitutes when they could afford it, but when they couldnt they went looking for sex with young men in this manner They were probably just very sad, lonely miserable people, not guys "discovering "themselves Now you may say Im anti-gay, but I have far more compassion for these wounded people then all of you applauding them commiting hari-kari. Youre think youre so kind, but your type of kindness kills
Untouchable_Fire Posted April 23, 2009 Posted April 23, 2009 You have a right to be a religious conservative. Why must you trash people with other views by calling them fascists? You still have yet to provide any credible evidence on why gay marriage should be banned. The Dr. Spitzer "study" is not credible evidence because proper scientific protocol was not followed (not even close). I assume you know how the people were chosen for the "study". Bold Jack called Neo Cons fascists... not me. I said they were close to fascists, implying that there is both similarities and differences. Which is true and holds no value statement.
39388 Posted April 23, 2009 Posted April 23, 2009 Is it seriously that hard to follow a conversation? Bold Jack called Neo Cons fascists... not me. I said they were close to fascists, implying that there is both similarities and differences. Which is true and holds no value statement. If you have to make stuff up... it isn't worth the post. You said Neo cons are close and secular progressives are closer. When you say that it implies mostly similarities. I made nothing up. You are the one who relied on the junk "study" done by Dr. Spitzer. You also failed to answer some simple questions.
boxing123 Posted April 23, 2009 Posted April 23, 2009 Jake, good examples.. An ex girlfriend of mine has a father who is 72. He spends his money buying young male prostitutes. All of a sudden, after about the age of 65, he is gay.This completely screwed her up. He was married twice, 3 kids, but now he is just gay. If gay marriage was legal, I am sure he would import a young gay male lover from the countries he visits. Now does this gay guy have relationships with other 65-70 yr old men? Yeah right. He spends money buying 18-20 year old boys for sex. The fact that he has AIDS has definitely not stopped him from sleeping with boys. Has anyone ever seen 60- 70 yr old men dating one another? Of course not. Because being gay is all about getting off, preferably with boys.
39388 Posted April 23, 2009 Posted April 23, 2009 Jake, good examples.. An ex girlfriend of mine has a father who is 72. He spends his money buying young male prostitutes. All of a sudden, after about the age of 65, he is gay.This completely screwed her up. He was married twice, 3 kids, but now he is just gay. If gay marriage was legal, I am sure he would import a young gay male lover from the countries he visits. Now does this gay guy have relationships with other 65-70 yr old men? Yeah right. He spends money buying 18-20 year old boys for sex. The fact that he has AIDS has definitely not stopped him from sleeping with boys. Has anyone ever seen 60- 70 yr old men dating one another? Of course not. Because being gay is all about getting off, preferably with boys. You said in another thread that you avoid gay people, yet you keep talking about the subject. Maybe you avoid gay and lesbian couples who mind their own business (some of them raising childen successfully). Do you instead search for people who participate in the most radical sex acts and hang out there? It wouldn't surprise me. :rolleyes:
blueintheface Posted May 12, 2009 Posted May 12, 2009 Actually LSD, I'm an old style populist Democrat, Think George McGovern. I dislike Liberals as much as Neo-cons, both groups are trying to restrict our constitutional rights. I believe Gay people should have the same rights as hetero people. Discrimination is discrimination. No group should be singled out and repressed, every person having the same rights as every other person BTW Aqualung rocks!!!!!:D:D I agree. Except for the aqualung comment. Are they some type of prehistoric fish?
DayDreamer75 Posted May 12, 2009 Posted May 12, 2009 to me, every person has a right to live his or her own life as they wish as long as they don't hurt anyone else... Whether one is born gay or becomes gay, it does not matter. To me they have the same rights I do. Whether one is a cheater or loyal, obnoxious or reserved has nothing to do with sexual orientation. I think both, gay or hetero people can feel sincere love and might want to legalize their relationships. I live in Europe. Unfortunately, in a country that does NOT share my opinions. I will go even further with my opinions on gay people. We make so much fuss about adoption in gay marriages... There are so many children in the world that die of hunger & desease. So many children in the world lack love and affection. Does it really matter if the adopting parents are hetero or gay as long as they truly, sincerely love them? Is not it better to be loved than be alone in an orphanage (and that's when these kids are lucky!) If I were terminally ill and I had to give up my child to adopting parents, I would not mind giving them to a gay couple if I were sure that they would sincerely love my baby.
OldEurope Posted May 12, 2009 Posted May 12, 2009 You said in another thread that you avoid gay people, yet you keep talking about the subject. Maybe you avoid gay and lesbian couples who mind their own business (some of them raising childen successfully). Do you instead search for people who participate in the most radical sex acts and hang out there? It wouldn't surprise me. :rolleyes: Was the last comment really necessary? Must the petty insults be thrown around to make a point? I am against gay marriage. Before I continue, let me mention I have lived in six countries, speak three languages, have an Ivy advanced degree blah blah so I have lived life and seen life. Furthermore, my views are not shaped by religion. If a gay couple wishes to have a civil union that should be all right, despite my strong views below... Marriage is not just about sharing health care. It is the spiritual and sexual union of the male and female sides of nature, and so should it remain. I do not in any way regard the homosexual relationship as a "mere alternative" to the heterosexual one. Human civilization, human history, and human society, damaged as it is, has carried on in this tradition and the wisdom of the ages is not to be dismissed. Male to male sex is not, for this poster, natural. Neither between women. There is something sad about it all, depressing, and often ugly. I for one cannot relate to a man who is acting like a woman, nor a woman who is acting like a man. Something is terribly off here. I have had, in the publishing world, several gay male friends. But these men were older, elegant, and kept it all private. These men, or at least two of them I know, are against this idea of "marriage". Even they say that that is the male-female world. Why we have to turn every personal issue into public policy is beyond me. I know of no one who "discriminates" against gays. One may not like them--that is not against the law--but any company or magazine worth its salt is not going to fire someone for that. By the way, many many many groups of people have suffered throughout history and no one has the upper hand on hurt.. And gay men usually lead exceedingly unstable lives, suffer tremendous psychological problems, and have been even pathological. The six biggest mass murderers in US history were gay men. Many of these men were traumatized as children. This has played a huge role in their sexual development. As for women, it seems that many of them become gay also for psychological reasons relating to their relationships with men. Then there is the whole AIDS issue... Then there are the fringe groups who wish to lower the age of consent laws... And now you can hardly pick up a magazine, see a movie, watch t.v. without a gay couple or character being the heroic nice this or that, or showing such sex as an option for anyone....And never, ever, showing the seedier side of such lives... I wish people weren't so media gullible... I have no idea why people do not look more critically at these demoralizing lifestyles. It is not all so innocent. It is not just about these "poor" couples looking for love and wanting to adopt children (poor kids---they deserve the male and female in their lives as does every human...) ...Much of their movement is truly off-putting stuff. xoo OE
IrishCarBomb Posted May 12, 2009 Posted May 12, 2009 If a gay couple wishes to have a civil union that should be all right, despite my strong views below... So you just dislike the semantics? If they were granted the same rights, but didn't call it marriage, it would be ok?
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