grounds for SEPERATION?

[blue7]

stbxw & I are creating a legal seperation. On many of the worksheets, there is the question-"reason for legal seperation" (or issue to live seperate) I assume it is where you would normally provide "grounds for divorce". From what I've found online, typical answers are "mutually agreed", "abuse/adultry/addictions", "desertion/abandunment" or " jail/incarceration".

 

Our plan if for her to fill out her wants/request, and I will do the same. We will then negotiate & finalize the details.

 

I am wanting to answer the above questions accuratly as possible. And for the most part, she is leaving me. Her choice, her idea, her action. She is not willing to work on it together. Any suggestions on wording here?

 

Blue

[rsobrien]

Abandonment and desertion sounds accurate in your situation. She is leaving you.

[Gunny376]

"Scroggin another guy with total disregard to me and my feelings!" would seem appropriate to me!

[mark982]

think up some good ones,and watch her reaction.

[Ronni_W]

Hugs, blue.

I do understand your question -- it's the same one my ex had.

His lawyer told him "irreconcilable differences" -- the courts REALLY don't care if or not one or the other party doesn't want the separation/divorce.

 

That's the tough part -- for the divorcing partners it's all about the emotions, but all the documentation is very impersonal and a bunch of legalese.

 

Have you considered a grief/loss counselor to help you deal with your emotions around all of it? Cos it does hurt and it does suck, and you do deserve a safe place to vent and let it all out.

 

Best of luck.

[blue7]

Thanks Ronni- You are very kind. Luckily, I have some really good friends, and a great counslor. I've reserved my embarassing, cheesy, overly emotional questions for here.

I pretty much figure out that it doesn't matter much to the courts why we break up...but for whatever reason, I feel a need to have my actions be recorded accuratly. Maybe b/c I am being forced to do things I do not want to do, so therefore being accurate however useless is still important to me.

Blue

[Ronni_W]

for whatever reason,

Frustration and anger, really. Powerless, helpless and obsolete. Just a real effin' piss-off, is what it is! Not at ALL what you wanted or expected. Effin' frustrated, and effin' angry, too.

Er...or something like that?

 

I totally appreciate how important it is to you -- it's just that you're looking to impersonal documentation full of legalese to help you feel more powerful and useful...and in control. (And they can't do that for you, unfortunately -- no matter what you write on 'em stoopid effin' papers, it's still just a BIG piss-off and let down.)

 

Sorry, Blue.

[blue7]

Thanks again Ronni- You are right on target! Useless, but it'll be"out there".

 

Let me change the subject a little. I found out by accident (i wasn't snooping really) that she had put a spy software on my laptop. I know for sure she found nothing, b/c I've done nothing. I feel so violated. Not to mention so freakin' pissed. (i don't need to vent that side, here) It has got me a little freaked out...wondering what else she has done. I've been good really...I'd hate the idea of her putting sometype of nanny cam or something in the house...and have video walking around the house pickin' my nose or something...but geez...i am worried about every little things i do now...even writing this post. i worry she has done the same to my phone.

 

she seems so desperate to file the seperation agreement...should i try to get her to fesss up & disclose everything to me (not that she would tell the truth anyway...she'd only admit to what she was caught at) before i agree to any paperwork? Or as my best friend suggested just keep the info in my back pocket for a rainy day.

[Ronni_W]

should i try to get her to fesss up & disclose everything to me...before i agree to any paperwork?

I'm reading that, "Should I try to control and manipulate my soon-to-be-ex by threatening to withhold something that she wants?"

 

To that question, I really don't know your answer, Blue. I guess it depends on what kinda person you want to see, when you look in the mirror.

 

Will it make you feel more powerful? More significant? More purposeful? More important?

If those are the types of feelings you're hoping for, is this plan really gonna deliver what you want?

 

For what it's worth, my personal and sincere belief is something I read in a different divorce support group, when I was going through it 10+ years ago: "The view is ALWAYS better from the high road."

[blue7]

Point well taken Ronni. I understand.

 

My thoughts (what I believe them to be) are to do my best to clear the table. And what I mean by that is...say to her something along the lines of " hey look, I know you have been spying on me & my computer, (possibly my phone) and I feel like you have violated my privacy...I'd like for you to come clean and let me know if there is anything else you have been doing...cameras, other computers, etc." I am concerned that she will have access to any of my private matters in the future. It is illegal for a reason.

 

It may not be the same high ground you suggest, but I do believe it is an honest & open approach. My concern is that maybe I am being too niave. Therefore, suggesting I hold the information should she try to saboatge any of my private matters. (business, finance, future personal relationships) How would you feel if you knew there was a good chance someone was monitoring all your computer activity, and cell phone? To me it is a very uneasy feeling.

 

I have been very amicable from the start (of course there are fights, & exchanges of words I regret).

[Ronni_W]

Blue, your approach sounds very reasonable.

What will you do when she does exactly what you suspect she will do, and says, "That's it. I didn't do anything else. Honest!"?

 

I can only imagine how I'd feel, of course (and using my ex to get there.) The first thing that came to my mind (just then) was to ask, "Are you an effin' moron? Go get yourself some effin' professional HELP, why don't you???"

 

Which, of course, is not the very highest of those high roads, either .

 

Alternatively, "What have YOU been up to, that you needed to find something to pin on ME? What guilty crap are you projecting onto me???"

 

My point to you is, how does it REALLY help us, if we just keep taking other people's obviously dysfunctional projections and crap, personally?

[blue7]

Ronni- I hope you're still out there...plus I'd love any others opinions. Things have changed a little. But the original question, still remains...and remains for a purpose now.

 

Originally she was "leaving" and getting out. I was staying and being the foundation for the kids & the home. Its so complicated that I won't go into details..so for the separation agreement, I am allowing her to have primary custody. She seems to be getting herself back together, and with my schedule it seems best that she have custody and for her & the ids to remain in our home. (it's not completely the situation but for sake of time leave it at that)

 

I want to state a reason for the sepration, not for emotional reasons as I did (want to) last month, (still do a little) but for legal reasons, in case I need to fight for custody in a year or so...

 

I want thinking abandonment & desertion.

 

any thoughts?

[a4a]

She has not just packed up and left the country...... abandonment and desertion.

 

Why drag yourself through this and make it harder on yourself.

 

Digging in now will not make it any better.

 

The sooner it is done the sooner you can move on.

 

If you want to fight for custody do it now.

 

Not later. That will make it look worse if you wait. If you really want that. Don't use it as revenge pawn.

 

agree to 50/50 minimally on the custody now.

[Ronni_W]

hey Blue...I'm still here

 

As a4a pointed out, the legalese means specific things to the lawyers and legal proceedings. I understand that you want to keep your future options about custody open, and strongly urge you to discuss that with a family/divorce attorney. You (and your kids) deserve to have proper, professional advice about this important matter.

 

My bigger concern (if you will allow me to have such a thing for just a sec), is an apparent lack of consideration for what you are currently thinking you may want to do TO YOUR KIDS in a year or whatever time-period will suit YOUR schedule to fight for your right to uproot their lives again by changing custody/living arrangements that they've taken 12 months or whatever time-period to adapt to.

 

It's hard enough the first time around, my good man. And they are not pawns, which is how you'd be using them when it becomes more convenient for you to fight for greater custody than YOU want right now.

 

I don't, of course, know their exact ages. But they are of an age where custody is part of the deal. And divorce is as difficult on 40-year old kids as on 4-year olds. (An interesting read is "The Unexpected Legacy Of Divorce" by Wallerstein, Lewis and Blakeslee. Perhaps the library will have it?)

 

For what all of that is worth

[blue7]

Very good point ronni. (again!)

 

My thoughts are that she is just an emotional wreck right now. Once I am out of the house and we have to deal with each other as little as possible...she will have herself back together.

I went away for 3 days recently, and when i returned she seemed in such a better state of mind. Truth is, as much as I am discusted with her, at one point she was a good mom, a really good mom. I just feel the trouble between us, is too much emotionally for her. Once my prescence is minimized from her...then she can get well.

 

I will cover myself and my intentions legally and throughly,(i'll be annoyingly through) before I step a single foot out the door. My idea is to stay close, and watch every move like a hawk...making my intentions known to everyone, especially the lawyers (so he can note it in the separation agreement).

 

I really hope I am not being selfish, by doing this. I didn't even think of it that way...in fact I thought I was doing the exact opposite. (by giving up so much)

 

You have really made me think. My wife is just so anxious to be away from me...and move forward, that she convinced me to just separate without dealing with all the details....well, we are dealing with all the details...except I was thinking that this following year would be a good trial run for child custody...and what i mean is I hope she can get it together (and i think she will) and we will continue as planned....but in the event that she is not quite there after a year (or less) I want to have some foundation to act upon.

 

(okay, it is so easy to go on and on...i'll stop here)

[mark982]

sounds like your giving up way to much,go for joint custody,that way she can't take off across the country to live.before you agree to anything spend the $$ and talk to a lawyer,easy to check on the phones just check them all out from where they come in the house.

[Ronni_W]

I really hope I am not being selfish...in fact I thought I was doing the exact opposite. (by giving up so much)

I hear ya, blue.

It is one helluva tough job to balance BOTH the needs of the children and the needs of the already-depleted, exhausted sometimes extremely hostile adults.

 

The adults sometimes forget that the children are even more traumatized and fragile, and tend to become blind to what the kids are going through and what might be in their best interest -- it's not conscious a lot of the time...it's just cos the "grown-ups" are so freakin' traumatized and fragile themselves.

 

"Giving up so much" is not necessarily noble...it can prove to be downright short-sighted, even just plain stoopid. Especially if giving away too much now will impact your ability to create a comfortable, safe, positive environment for when the kids do visit with you.

 

It is admirable that you thought about your wife's ability to "grow back into" her former, positive role as a mother. But I'd still be more likely to negotiate joint custody now and, with input from legal counsel, maybe just choose not to exercise it for whatever period. (I don't know if/how that would impact your future rights, of course.)

 

That way, if your wife does not return to her former self, at least you don't have to face the legal battle to "rewrite" the agreement -- trying to do that is a pain in the ass, from what I've heard.

 

Worst case, you'd still be dealing with the kids' emotional fall-out but you'd be able to devote a much greater share of your mental, emotional, spiritual and physical resources to their happiness and well-being.