Subject of Kids Brought up Again...

[redfathom]

So here goes, about a year ago I told my husband that I didn't want to have kids and I told him that if he couldn't handle that and that having kids was important to him then he should find someone to fullfill all his needs. I know how big of a deal it can be to people, one of the core dreams: house, career, family, etc.

 

Well, a few days ago he brought up the subject by asking me when I would know if I wanted kids or not. I told him I didn't think I ever wanted kids and I thought he understood that. He asked why and I gave him very good reasons (well, I think they are):kid's are hard work, time consuming, I would worry too much, I like our current lifestyle, kid's are expensive, I am afraid of giving birth, I have a hederitary condition I worry about passing on, etc.

 

He said those reasons only show that I would be a good mother. He said he wants to have a child of our OWN (that is the big thing to him). That he wants to reaise a child he could be proud of. He thinks parents have total control over how any child WILL turn out. And will give examples of bad kids and talk about how our kids would never be like that.

 

So finally I told him another reason is that I sometimes wonder if our marriage will last (this stems from a few years ago when we seperated because of anger issues on his side, he has since gotten help for depression). During his angry period he was sometimes mean to my nieces and nephews, and didn't seem like he liked kids at all. But now he is a different person.

 

The next day he told me that he sometimes wishes he could start over with someone else who wouldn't remind him of his past mistakes...

 

I don't know what to do. I love my husband and I want him to be happy and I told him selflessly that if he wants out of the marriage I wouldn't stop him. He say's he loves me and wants to stay with me.

 

This is really bumming me out, I don't want to be forced to have kids, but I also don't want to lose him. I mean I might like having kids (I like kids, in short intervals), either way I might have regret's.

 

I don't know what to do...

[Stung]

this is obviously a tough situation and there is no one pat answer that everyone will be happy with. i agree that in the end you might have some regrets either way it goes, but then, that's life. all you can ever do is try to know yourself and make those hard choices in as reasoned a manner as you are capable of.

 

the fact is, kids ARE hard. i wouldn't change having mine for the world, but sometimes i wish i had waited a little bit longer, accomplished a few more of my goals first...and i waited until i was in my thirties! having a baby will restructure your life and your relationship with your husband in ways you simply cannot fully appreciate or anticipate until it happens. this can be both good and bad, and nobody can tell you which way it will go.

 

you will probably love your children more than you ever thought possible, but you will also have to make tremendous sacrifices. they could bring your marriage together or they could tear it apart. you will slave over them for years and years and you're not going to hear a lot of 'thank you's'.

 

you need to ask yourself some hard questions. is it possible you DO want kids, but have repressed that drive out of fear? fear that your marriage will fall apart, that you will pass on your disorder, that it will be too hard or expensive? if you simply feel you aren't ready, well...the fact is, nobody is ever really ready, parenthood just hits you, overwhelms you, and then you learn to swim in it as you go.

 

if it's real, though, that you just don't want it, DON'T let yourself be forced or cajoled or generally mind-****ed into it. because you're right, your lifestyle will totally change. travel opportunities, lost. career advancement, back-burnered. say goodbye to romance and time for yourself, too. obviously these things won't all disappear in a puff of smoke, but they WILL become much, much more difficult to achieve. your time, your money, all your resources will be devoted to that kid. you might resent it, and that's understandable. and if you resent it, you'll probably resent him pushing you into it, and you could end up losing your marriage anyway. also, we live on an overpopulated planet full of unwanted kids already, frankly.

 

if one of the major concerns is whether your husband will be a good father, none of us will be able to answer that better than you can. he lost his patience with his nieces and nephews, that could be a bad sign but it could also mean nothing. every parent loses patience with their kids sometimes and they've got more emotionally invested in them than with their more distant relatives. but just how mean was he? does he get mean with you on a regular basis? can he be trusted to commit himself financially to a child for life, no matter what happens in your marriage? is he good at playing? has he successfully kept pets?

 

close your eyes and picture yourself old. what is it you hope you have achieved, and what hurts your heart to think that you might die without? for me, having kids was in my top five, but there's nothing wrong with not feeling that way. do you have a really fulfilling career? do you want to spend your life traveling?

 

good luck in finding your path here.

[quankanne]

maybe the right thing to do is to keep your mind open to the possibility, but not commit yourself to "yes" just yet. Because as much as you love the guy, and he you, y'all need to know beyond a doubt that what you've got together works for you ... and if you're in a position to wait (as in, no biological clock going tick Tick TICK), do so. You won't regret waiting, but you may regret rushing into things when you're not ready.

 

*smile* after 17 years of marriage, I've never managed to get knocked up, not even once – even during my hoochie days. And I love babies! But I only had regrets once, when my MiL died and I realized that the family line for my husband ended with him, but he wasn't too concerned about it, so it's worked out pretty well otherwise: We've got a ton of nieces and nephews on both sides of the family – and some of them are now becoming parents – so there are plenty of babies to love on. I think what helps is understanding that just because your childless ... whether by choice or by fate ... that well of love doesn't dry up, but can be put to good use loving the little ones (and big ones!) around you.

[Enema]

This is really bumming me out, I don't want to be forced to have kids, but I also don't want to lose him. I mean I might like having kids (I like kids, in short intervals), either way I might have regret's.

 

I don't know what to do...

 

 

Sounds like he's getting to you.

 

You know what you (don't) want and you should stick to it. "Compromise" when it comes to something as massive as kids is not something anyone should do.

 

You only get one life, are you prepared to spend 18+ years of it on a bunch of maybes?

[redfathom]

I did tell him I don't want to decide until I am 30, I am only 27 now. He is rushed because he is currently 33 and he say's he doesn't want to be too old when he has kids. The thing that I do know, 100% is that I would love any child I had and that my love for them would be unlimited, which is why I hesitate, because this world isn't that great, and I ask myself if I could and would love someone so much could I bring them into a world like this. Sure I would do my best to sheild them and give them everything I could, but there would be pain, as there is in any life.

 

I also know if something happened to my husband (he is a police officer) and he passed away I would regret not having a child with him letting him experience being a father, keeping that from him. And not having a part of him after he passed, but that is selfish.

 

As for the anger, it was just sometimes and he would spank them (which I didn't think was right since he is not their parent, and my sisters were close by). he used to be mean to me, but never hit me or called me names, he was just angry and would have tantrums. Regarding pets, he does a great job (better then me) looking after them, and he dotes on them.

 

I did tell him we should do nice things for kids that are already in this world, but he said he doesn't want to help other people's kids, he want's to raise his own.

[quankanne]

you will never ever be able to fully protect a child from life's harmful events/things. All that you are asked is to love that kid as completely as possible and train him in the right way to be the best, kindest, most loving person he can be. Everything else will fall into place ...

[redfathom]

Yes, that is what my husband wants to do. He wants to have a child and help that child grow up the best way possible, and to have all the things he didn't. And I think that is noble...

[lonelyandfrustrated]

I think you're smart to put off until you're 30. Me, I wanted grown children. All these young years are tough, but I can't get there>>>>>>>>>>>without these years.

 

Make sure your H doesn't want to give the kid a job right out of the womb. The child isn't a do-over of his own childhood. And if you do cave (you'll love it--but still wait until 30), he's going to have to get involved with other people's kids, and he should want to, because those kids will be your child's peer influence.

[Stung]

i'm not saying it means he'll be a bad dad, but spanking other people's kids and having temper tantrums at his wife...these things do strike me as potential red flags. i know if anybody laid hands on my child, especially without talking to me first, there would be hell to pay--i wouldn't care if he were a cop or their uncle. there are very, very few situations in which i might consider that somewhat understandable, and they all involve my child inadvertently or thoughtlessly putting themselves or another child at risk of serious and immediate harm.

 

just my two cents.

 

as for the rest of it...i agree that waiting until you're at least 30 is a good plan. don't let him pressure you to speed up that deadline, i mean, why would you? you're both young, and three years is nothing. live your lives, enjoy each other and keep your marriage and communication strong, and then revisit this topic in a few years' time.

[TOWinNYC]

I'm not going to say have a child/don't have a child BUT there is a book that helped me immensely in my own personal decision-making process. It's called "I'm Okay, You're A Brat (setting the priorities straight and freeing you from the guilt and mad myths of parenthood)" by Susan Jeffers. Good luck!

[redfathom]

"It is the emotional bonds of parenting that are the most difficult to deal with. Even with a caregiver, whose presence allows us more physical freedom to work or travel, the thought 'I hope Joey is okay' never leaves our hearts and minds. We are mentally 'on duty' twenty-four hours a day. And at some level, you 'hope Joey is okay' for the rest of your life. Goodbye, freedom." (page 39)

 

"And therein lies the rub. It is the very love that makes having children so miserable! . . . This worry casts a pall on all that is beautiful in our lives." (page 62)

 

 

Tow, here are some quotes from the book that sum up one of my fears of being a parent...

[FlyingToaster]

I also think it's good for you to wait until you're 30 to make that decision. Until then, I think both your and your H SHOULD get involved with other children. You won't be raising them, but it will help to give both of you an idea as to what you'll be dealing with if/when you have one of your own. Raising a child will test your patience, that's for sure, and I guess for me it would be good to see how his patience is now that he's gotten help for his depression. As far as him spanking your nieces and nephews, I feel he was out of line in 2 ways: 1) He should have spoken to their parents about the problem and let them correct them, and 2) Although I don't like to spank, if you do so, you shouldn't do it when you're angry.

 

I also hope he's not painting a picture in his head of parenthood being all wonderful and smiles, etc. For some reason, I just get that feeling. I would be worried how he would handle the tough times.

 

Take Care.

[redfathom]

Flying, I think he is. When he talks about it he doesn't seem realistic. When I list my concerns he downplays them. I think with him being a cop and seeing that a lot of the kids he has "run-ins" with usually have bad parents he thinks that if we are good parents then we will have good kids. But a child has their own personality, the whole nature vs nurture argument...

 

When I gave him the reason (last reason) about our relationship being a deciding factor he said that seemed like the only reason and the most important. I had to let him know that all of my reasons are important.

 

I found two books I want to get and which explain the hardships of parenting, now I want to find one that disucsses the joys and I would like both of us to read them.

 

Deepdown I feel that I will be the major parent, as I have been the major care-giver in our relationship. Doing most of the chores and such, and so the added stress of a child on top of that and a job make me leary.

 

I also have this mindset of how my H was for the first years (seven) of our marriage and only have a picture of what he is like now after getting help two years ago. It's hard to anticipate what the future holds.

[Enema]

So, you've been married for 7 years and you told him 1 year ago that you didn't want to have kids.

 

Was there previously an understanding that you would?

[NoIDidn't]

I say don't do it if you don't want to. I have four kids, and I worry ALOT.

 

I don't think its fair that you are expected to keep an open mind to potentially having kids while he isn't keeping an open mind to potentially NOT having kids.

[LoveNeverFails]

I can certainly empathize with all of your posts, OP.

 

In my situation, I grew up in a household where I felt I was a burden. My mom was a single parent of 3 girls and I indirectly and directly felt like I was a burden to her. Activities like spending time with me and even cooking for me was annoying and draining for her.

 

After years and years of this, I could see how children weren't a blessing but rather a burden. Children were extremely exhausting, too much work, and something that got in the way of peace and joy.

 

While my mother always says she loves my sisters and I and enjoys being a mother, most of her actions are contradictory to this.

 

As I became older, I viewed children the same way as my mother viewed me. I still struggle with this and its something I don't know will ever go away. When I hear of my friends wanting 4 or 5 children I am literally like ," Why?" I never understood the appeal of children and I definitely understand the source of this belief.

 

My fiance and I made an agreement that we will both be open about having and not having children. I am pretty sure I will not have children but I do not want to say "never." Only with age will I ultimately determine what is best for me and my fiance.

 

This is something that is always best discussed before marriage. I would suggest seeking marital counseling if the gridlocking continues.

[redfathom]

When I got married at 18, I thought I would have kids, because it's what you're suppose to do. The package: marriage, car, house, pets, then kids.

 

But then I realized that what soceity says I should do and acctualy do are different. I have my OWN wants and needs.

 

My parents divorced when I was seven, my mom had custody and married an abusive man. A year or so later we had to go to special counseling and talk about our situation at home. The courts decided that my dad should get custody so he did, of us four kids. As we got older we were able to decide who we wanted to live with, mom or dad. My mom went through drugs, and more bad relationships, but was always the fun, more nuturing of the parents.

 

My dad made sacrafices that he had to which of course affected us and he also tried to raise us with more rules. Over time my sister and brother left my dad to be with my mom. Both sisters dropped out of school to be "home schooled" and one got pregnant.

 

My mom and I have never had the best relationship because she feels I chose my dad, but I really chose stability.

 

My sisters hardly talk to my dad, and my brother doesn't at all. My mom is always there supporting this and bad mouthing him. And then being angry at me for having a good relationship with my dad.

 

So, being raised like that, why would I want to bring a child up...I saw two different sides and how hard it was for each of them in their own way. One sister get's slack for being a not so good mom, from me, and my mom. Every week someone is mad at someone else and trying to bring everyone else down.

 

My sister when we get upset at her parenting blames my mom, "because that's how we were raised". I still don't get why they are mad at my dad...

 

Either way it's the parents fault! I love both for trying to do their best...

[Enema]

When I got married at 18, I thought I would have kids, because it's what you're suppose to do. The package: marriage, car, house, pets, then kids.

 

This reminded me of a cool picture I once saw:

 

http://img404.imageshack.us/img404/386/1230861033447.jpg

[redfathom]

Well, we are "free" we do get to decide, even if we get brainwashed sometimes. We still choose not to question things and to follow along.

 

So I guess I am questioning WHY I should have kids. Why do people want to have kid's. Why is it abnormal not to want to have kid's. Some people say it selfish, but I think a lot of people have babies to be selfish. Even the "because babies are so cute" is a ridiculous reason. They're not cute, their small human being's. Not accessories!

 

It's like at the grocery store, the pet and baby isle are almost always next to each other, I call them "responsability lane". I always bi-pass them...

[Nikki Sahagin]

Anything that is for the self is selfish so whether you want kids for your SELF or you don't want them for your SELF - it is 'technically' selfish. I am not massively maternal either. I don't generally 'like' children. I think just as it is natural for some to want children, it is natural for others not to. Perhaps it is a little glitch in evolution that enables the population to not get too crazy; that some people just don't feel that biological clock ticking. You can have a full and fulfilling life WITHOUT children just as you can have one with children. You can also feel a void without children just as you can in having children. I think reguardless of the decisions you make, there is a sense that there is another way you could have gone. Just as the mother might sit sometimes over a glass of wine and wonder what she could be doing without her kids all day every day, the bachelorette can sit and wonder what life would be like with kids sometimes. There is really no right or wrong in life. As people have said, parenthood is not easy, it is incredibly demanding, exhausting and draining and there is no guarantee that you will 'like' your child or get along beyond the normal parent/child relationship. Every child is a new person with his or her own personality; some people seem to strike oil with their kids and have a perfect family. Others have little horrors.

 

I'm sure if you changed your mind about parenthood you could always adopt in later life. But if your heart is not in child raising right now, it would probably be a mistake to go that way. Though no-one can tell how they would react. I know people who have had 'accidental babies' and turned out to be the best mothers of all, just as some who planned for babies all there lifes, can't cope with the reality.

[lonelyandfrustrated]

You don't have to have kids, red. It's not abnormal to not want them. I have some friends who don't want kids, and it's kind of a given...some do, some don't. I always did, but I looked at it more like going to college. People don't (usually) go to college for the immediate satisfaction of going to college. They go so they can eventually work in the field they have chosen, or to find the field they want to be in, or to be in a better position for financial security. Whatever the reason, it is something to go through to get to some point in the future. I didn't have kids thinking, hey ya know what? I want to be seriously sleep-deprived for the next five years or so, think I'll have some kids! I had children because I want to still have a family when I'm old, after my parents have passed and my siblings are old, too. I wanted to give someone else the gift of siblings, cause I love mine bunches. I like families, and I wanted to make one. Can't do that without kids.

 

I didn't really want the responsibility, I didn't go into it thinking oh joy, all the dinners I have to make and all the puke I'll clean out of the carpet, oh joyous day! I thought about the price-to-prize ratio and found it worthy.

 

So if there's no prize for you, why would you consider it? I wouldn't fault you or think you abnormal at all if having children wasn't important to you.

[Enema]

Why does the word "selfish" have such a negative connotation?

 

Hell yeah I'm always going to do things with myself in mind. I only get one life, why should I waste it on other people?

[JamesM]

Some thoughts I had as I read your posts on this thread, redfathom. I can hear the deep thought you are giving this issue.

 

 

First off, both of you are young enough to take time to make this decision. He is NOT too old. You are actually much younger than my wife and I. We had our first at 32. We had our last (of four) at 38.

 

Second, as you know, time may change your opinion.

 

Third, you have some very valid fears. Your genetic condition could be passed on. You fear childbirth. Neither are small issues. My wife was scared of childbirth, too, as she has seen many of the worst cases as a student nurse. As a young woman, she had dreams of dying during childbirth. So, you can imagine how she had some deep fears to conquer. I can say that while she got over most of it, some of the fears came back with our last child. Thankfully, she made it through all with no complications.

 

Fourth, your saying no affects his life, too. He has the same right for a yes as you do a no. As a couple, this is not an issue that can be compromised simply because it is an either/or. So, he needs to make the decision...can I wait and see if she changes her mind, or is a child more important than my marriage? You need to decide...is my no for children more important than being married to him?

 

Fifth, while many of us do have reasons that are selfish, you will find that if this is your main reasons, then after you had a child, you would find that they fall away so quickly. As I type this, the house is filled with busyness and noise of children that have changed my life in so many ways. Yet if I could go back to those days when I could do what I wanted when I wanted, I would not. At your age, I would have said yes, but as I was dragged into having a family one child at a time well almost dragged...I do NOT like change:mad: ), I look back with gratitude that I did have a family.

 

Sixth, will he stick around when there are babies to take care of? Or will he be away and you have most of the parenting to do? For some babies are "fun" until sh*t happens (I had to say that...it is appropriate here. ). Will he volunteer to change diapers? Will he get up in the middle of the night when he is home? Will he change for a baby?

 

No one has the right to make this decision for you or for him. However, if this involves him, then IMO you do need to consider his wishes. BUT...since this involves you, then HE needs to think through some of those very valid concerns you have.

 

And since you do have concerns about the long term future of your marriage, then this decision should hinge on that, too.

 

Just my two cents.