lkjh Posted April 21, 2009 Posted April 21, 2009 This was not your fault. You did not make him cheat and drink. Unfortunately this happened and you need to realize its not your fault.
Dexter Morgan Posted April 21, 2009 Posted April 21, 2009 No, I do not think that's what they expected from me. But I think since I was the one not under the influence, I should not have asked him to leave. Meaning, I should have had a better handle of it since I was not drunk. Still, what do they expect? He hit you with some horrible news that makes people crazy. When people learn of an affair, immediately emotions take center stage....logic goes right out the window. People do or say things out of desperation...anger...fear..etc. You didn't just say what you said and told him to get out because you simply had an argument. He hit you with news that is enough to make the most rational people temporarily irrational.
Dexter Morgan Posted April 21, 2009 Posted April 21, 2009 Actually, I know that they do not blame her. Their relationship with her is cordial. She was invited to their house a few times right after the funeral. What?? To me that means they knew about the affair when it was happening...condoned it, and didn't say anything about it, and wasn't going to let you in on it. I think they knew and hid it from you all along. So maybe they should be putting the blame on themselves instead of you?
taylor Posted April 21, 2009 Posted April 21, 2009 He got killed because I told him I did not want to see him ever again and GOD HEARD ME! Sorry, laine B, but God doesn't work this way. Do your really think you have that much power over God. That you could say words in anger and God would immediately grant your wish? Nope. Doesn't work that way. The only thing you are guilty of is being human and loving a man who made unwise choices. Your husband is guilty of hurting you with his choices, not the other way around. He is guilty of not protecting himself against pregnancy if he didn't want children. He is guilty of choosing to have an affair with a woman he didn't love while a woman he did love, his wife, sat at home carrying a child he didn't want. He is guilty of drinking to the point where he couldn't handle a motor vehicle. He is guilty of contributing to an accident that caused his death. You will continue to idealize and romanticize your relationship with your husband. But the truth is he cheated on you at one of the most vulnerable times in your life...while you were pregnant. It wasn't a one night stand, either. It held some meaning, otherwise the OW would not have become so attached (5 years later and she is still grieving?) and the affair wouldn't have lasted 3 months. He chose to drink and drive. He didn't have to get into that vehicle. No one was holding a gun to his head. You weren't shoving him out the door with a knife held at his throat. You were locked in a bathroom. He could have chosen to not leave...slept on the couch or in a spare room. He could have called someone to come get him. Your reaction to his affair news was normal. Your reaction did not cause his death. His drinking and his poor choices caused his death. He reacted to your reaction by doing something risky and irresponsible. He could have made that same risky, irresponsible choice had you had a heated argument about household chores, the baby, finances, in-laws, sex, or other behaviors. Many husbands have peeled out of driveways bent on taking a wild ride after an argument with their wives...they don't all involve affairs. Don't blame yourself or the affair for your husband's death. Blame his choice to drink and get behind the wheel of a automobile. How would you feel if he killed someone else instead of himself? Would you still blame yourself for the death of that innocent person..or would you blame your husband? You say if you hadn't reacted the way you did when you got the news of the affair, this wouldn't have happened. The thing is If your husband hadn't had the affair in the first place this wouldn't have happened. Why are you trying to put more guilty weight on your reaction than on the affair itself? And why are you choosing to accept the blame for what is his guilt? Because he isn't here to carry it himself?
NoIDidn't Posted April 21, 2009 Posted April 21, 2009 And why are you choosing to accept the blame for what is his guilt? Because he isn't here to carry it himself? This is what I am trying to figure out. This man cheated while she was pregnant (reprehensible). They hadn't even been married for a year yet when he decided to cheat (reprehensible). At the birth of his child his guilt was so great that he cried and cried and cried. And one night, while drinking heavily, the whole sordid tale came out. Its entirely possible that in his state of mind, that he wanted to harm himself because of his guilt (sorry, again laine B). But his family putting the blame on her?! Twisted. Grieving or not. Its been three and a half years and they are still acting like this? Its time to grow a back bone, stand up for herself/yourself, and DEMAND their respect. And, its time that they come to YOUR house to pick up the granddaughter! This situation is unacceptable. I know this isn't about me, but I would NEVER allow this nonsense. Not in a million years. Please think of what you are teaching your child, if nothing else, laine B.
Author laine_B Posted April 21, 2009 Author Posted April 21, 2009 Surely you don't believe that? SURELY you don't believe that God killed your husband because of something you said? Actually, I don't know anymore. It sure feels that way.
Athena Posted April 22, 2009 Posted April 22, 2009 Actually, I don't know anymore. It sure feels that way. Laine, I have said the EXACT SAME THING, "I never want to see your face ever again!" to my husband -- why did God not hear me?
Author laine_B Posted April 22, 2009 Author Posted April 22, 2009 I was angry and wanted to hurt her I admit - I guess I subscribe to the view that the OW's H should be told - of course with him dead that wasn't possible so it was either his parents or nobody This is what I am talking about---society seems to encourage anger and confrontation--it is a societal conditioning-we should undo that conditioning, we should start telling people, "don't do anything until you are calm and collected and able to think rationally"-instead we encourage or accept or tolerate and even applaud those who are angry and irrational when they DO something that would hut another human being. It is wrong. one stage I considered that I'd be better off dead myself but hopefully I'm getting past it. I am upset at your suggestion (if that's what it was) that somehow I would be responsible if the OW killed herself. I am sorry I got you upset, it was not my intention. But do you see what I am saying? The OW express that she wished she had died instead of the husband, so obviously, she was in a volatile mind-set, just like you were. You responded by wanting to hurt her-granted she has hurt you-still what does that say about you? Many would support you for doing that BUT what if you had added to her misery and she did something harmful to herself that could not be reversed? do you not think that there is too much pain and hurt being spread already? Maybe we should be telling each other to contain the anger and not lash out---or act only with good intentions. I don't know, just something other than the desire to inflict pain to the other because we are in pain? But thank you, Sid, I hope someday soon you will feel at peace and happy.
Author laine_B Posted April 22, 2009 Author Posted April 22, 2009 This is absolutely madness! How dare those two old mind-less POS blame it on you? If I were you, I would cut their access to YOUR daugher. Grandparents, in many states, are not ENTITLED to visitation....well, with two combined exceptions 1) They are the parents of a deceased parent (which is your case) and 2) it's in the child's best interest. The point is....how dare they blame you when their son was the one who stick his you know what in another woman while you as his wife was pregnant with HIS child! I strongly dislike people who side with "blood" without boundaries. If they are mad at you, they are cruel pitty people. If they are mad at OW, understandable. Last, but not least, I would like to say one thing to you......it was not your fault. It was not your fault that he cheated. It was not your fault that you got mad the way you did when you found out that your husband cheated. It was not your fault that he had an accident. It was not your fault that he died. Someone is at fault if he/she blame you, the betrayed spouse and the victim (hate to use this word here) in this tragedy. YOU did nothing wrong! Thank you for your post! but please do not be angry.
Author laine_B Posted April 22, 2009 Author Posted April 22, 2009 Still, what do they expect? He hit you with some horrible news that makes people crazy. When people learn of an affair, immediately emotions take center stage....logic goes right out the window. People do or say things out of desperation...anger...fear..etc. You didn't just say what you said and told him to get out because you simply had an argument. He hit you with news that is enough to make the most rational people temporarily irrational. yes, I know and I understand what you are saying. But what is infidelity really in the grand scheme of things? why is it acceptable to be irrational---our response to infidelity is something learned, conditioned by society. Maybe we should undo that. What?? To me that means they knew about the affair when it was happening...condoned it, and didn't say anything about it, and wasn't going to let you in on it. I think they knew and hid it from you all along. So maybe they should be putting the blame on themselves instead of you? No, they had no knowledge of it. It seemed like when he died they wanted to talk to all his friends and it included the xOW. This was not your fault. You did not make him cheat and drink. Unfortunately this happened and you need to realize its not your fault. Thank you, Ikjh. Intellectually, I KNOW I am not at fault-BUT emotionally I feel I did.
NoIDidn't Posted April 22, 2009 Posted April 22, 2009 laine B Now you are speaking against the basis for human nature. Its madness to think that we can uncondition being human. There is nothing wrong with confrontation or anger when relatively controlled. Its starting to sound like you really took every mean thing that was said to you to heart and you are trying to undo yourself. That, is madness. Don't do this to yourself. Did you come here to beat yourself up for a completely normal response? He cheated. If he were still alive, you'd likely still be mad at him for it. Or did you come here to convince yourself that your inlaws and others are right, that its your fault that he died? I don't agree with that conclusion. I bet the police and others on the scene of the accident wouldn't agree with that conclusion. It doesn't make any sense. Three and a half years is long enough to live with this nonsense. You need to start protecting yourself because no one else is going to do it for you. I know you don't want to take your daughter away from them, and you don't have to. But you have to put your foot down and put some limits on them. So far, you've allowed them to dictate everything and that's not fair to you. Do you wish to live like this forever? Do you feel you have earned this disrespect forever? If so, that is even sadder than his accident.
Author laine_B Posted April 22, 2009 Author Posted April 22, 2009 He is guilty of not protecting himself against pregnancy if he didn't want children. No, it was not his fault. It was nobody's fault. It was the 1% margin of error on the birth control that we used. You will continue to idealize and romanticize your relationship with your husband. Do you think it would make me feel better if I will only remember the betrayal? I choose to remember the wonderful times. He is DEAD. It is better to live and celebrate the wonderful times we had. Don't blame yourself or the affair for your husband's death. Blame his choice to drink and get behind the wheel of a automobile. I never blamed the affair. How would you feel if he killed someone else instead of himself? Would you still blame yourself for the death of that innocent person..or would you blame your husband? I would still probably blame myself, yes. You say if you hadn't reacted the way you did when you got the news of the affair, this wouldn't have happened. The thing is If your husband hadn't had the affair in the first place this wouldn't have happened. Why are you trying to put more guilty weight on your reaction than on the affair itself? Because he DIED and I still have many questions that will forever remain unanswered.
Author laine_B Posted April 22, 2009 Author Posted April 22, 2009 This is what I am trying to figure out. This man cheated while she was pregnant (reprehensible). They hadn't even been married for a year yet when he decided to cheat (reprehensible). At the birth of his child his guilt was so great that he cried and cried and cried. And one night, while drinking heavily, the whole sordid tale came out. Its entirely possible that in his state of mind, that he wanted to harm himself because of his guilt (sorry, again laine B). But his family putting the blame on her?! Twisted. Grieving or not. Its been three and a half years and they are still acting like this? Its time to grow a back bone, stand up for herself/yourself, and DEMAND their respect. And, its time that they come to YOUR house to pick up the granddaughter! This situation is unacceptable. I know this isn't about me, but I would NEVER allow this nonsense. Not in a million years. Please think of what you are teaching your child, if nothing else, laine B. NoIdidnt, I wish you would be kinder in your rhetoric. My husband is dead and what he did was wrong-no need for you to rub salt to the wound. But thank you for taking time to post here.
Author laine_B Posted April 22, 2009 Author Posted April 22, 2009 Laine, I have said the EXACT SAME THING, "I never want to see your face ever again!" to my husband -- why did God not hear me? Is this a serious question? or are you trying to be smart-aleck? I do not know what is the point to this question. Anyway, why do you think I would know why God did not hear you?
SidLyon Posted April 22, 2009 Posted April 22, 2009 This is what I am talking about---society seems to encourage anger and confrontation--it is a societal conditioning-we should undo that conditioning, we should start telling people, "don't do anything until you are calm and collected and able to think rationally"-instead we encourage or accept or tolerate and even applaud those who are angry and irrational when they DO something that would hut another human being. It is wrong. I am sorry I got you upset, it was not my intention. But do you see what I am saying? The OW express that she wished she had died instead of the husband, so obviously, she was in a volatile mind-set, just like you were. You responded by wanting to hurt her-granted she has hurt you-still what does that say about you? Many would support you for doing that BUT what if you had added to her misery and she did something harmful to herself that could not be reversed? do you not think that there is too much pain and hurt being spread already? Maybe we should be telling each other to contain the anger and not lash out---or act only with good intentions. I don't know, just something other than the desire to inflict pain to the other because we are in pain? But thank you, Sid, I hope someday soon you will feel at peace and happy. *********************************************** I guess I haven't given the full facts - the e-mail in which the OW said she wished she were dead was sent by her to me more than 4 months ago; that e-mail also contained an apology to me and an undertaking to not contact my husband. My response to that was (according to my H) a very sensitive one - remember we had just lost our brother in law in similar circumstances only 4 weeks earlier. Then only a few weeks ago I discovered additional things out - I think it's called trickle truth - I was very angry but waited at least a week and then decided I would contact her in laws. I was calm and not irrational at all. I had been trying to work out for a while whether contacting them would be the right thing anyway. Just out of interest what would you have done given there is a child involved who is being represented as their grandson when he might not be? Nevertheless I have admitted to anger and wanting to inflict some damage on the OW. I really think both these are normal human reactions although not necessarily commendable. I have to say I think it's rather unrealistic to say that people should be full of sweetness and light in the face of discovering a spouse's infidelity. We are products of our culture so yes I agree we have been conditioned to expect fidelity. If I lived in a country where polygamy or harems are part and parcel of the lifestyle then I'd probably feel differently. But I don't. I agree with those posters who suggest that it is impossible that God would have done what you said (in anger) that you wanted. I've already said I'm not a believer; but the Gods as portrayed in most faiths simply don't do that. S
Athena Posted April 22, 2009 Posted April 22, 2009 Because he DIED and I still have many questions that will forever remain unanswered. What questions do you still have, that are unanswered? (and -- no -- it wasn't a smart-alecky question previously, it was just to show you it's a common reaction to infidelity, and God does not kill our H's -- accidents do.)
Author laine_B Posted April 22, 2009 Author Posted April 22, 2009 laine B Now you are speaking against the basis for human nature. Its madness to think that we can uncondition being human. There is nothing wrong with confrontation or anger when relatively controlled. To be jealous is human nature. BUT infidelity and our responses to it is learned. I am not sure but I think some society tolerate infidelity better than others....do you think they are less than human ( the ones whose response to infidelity differ from ours?) Three and a half years is long enough to live with this nonsense. You need to start protecting yourself because no one else is going to do it for you. I know you don't want to take your daughter away from them, and you don't have to. But you have to put your foot down and put some limits on them. So far, you've allowed them to dictate everything and that's not fair to you. yes, we( myself and in laws) are all trying to heal. Apparently ( as what many have posted here) there is no deadline for that. Do you wish to live like this forever? Do you feel you have earned this disrespect forever? If so, that is even sadder than his accident. If that was my wish, I wouldn't be searching for answers.
Author laine_B Posted April 22, 2009 Author Posted April 22, 2009 Just out of interest what would you have done given there is a child involved who is being represented as their grandson when he might not be? Why is that your responsibility? The grandson is not your son. He is your husband's son. He should demand for a paternity test. What kind of man would not want to know his own child? With that said, this is something he needed to discuss with the xOW. Not you. Nevertheless I have admitted to anger and wanting to inflict some damage on the OW. I really think both these are normal human reactions although not necessarily commendable To think about "inflicting damage" is very different from actual infliction of damage. My take is that, people should not be encourage to inflict damage. Perhaps we all should encourage restraint. I have to say I think it's rather unrealistic to say that people should be full of sweetness and light in the face of discovering a spouse's infidelity. I never said that. I agree with those posters who suggest that it is impossible that God would have done what you said (in anger) that you wanted. I've already said I'm not a believer; but the Gods as portrayed in most faiths simply don't do that. I do not know "God" very well, so who knows what he/she thinks?
Author laine_B Posted April 22, 2009 Author Posted April 22, 2009 (and -- no -- it wasn't a smart-alecky question previously, it was just to show you it's a common reaction to infidelity, and God does not kill our H's -- accidents do.) Please do not patronize me but asking that kind of question. Thank you.
Liquid Posted April 22, 2009 Posted April 22, 2009 laine B, you ignored my post. Why is that? Is it because you want to ignore the truth and choose to guilt yourself?
NoIDidn't Posted April 22, 2009 Posted April 22, 2009 NoIdidnt, I wish you would be kinder in your rhetoric. My husband is dead and what he did was wrong-no need for you to rub salt to the wound. But thank you for taking time to post here. I apologize for offending and further distressing you. That was never my intention. I would, though, like to know what I said that you took offense to as to avoid it in the future. To be jealous is human nature. BUT infidelity and our responses to it is learned. I am not sure but I think some society tolerate infidelity better than others....do you think they are less than human ( the ones whose response to infidelity differ from ours?) I disagree. Societies where infidelity is supposedly tolerated simply force themselves not to react. If you are thinking about the French, the vast majority of French women that are cheated on don't like that they are cheated on but feel powerless as the men (mostly) doing the cheating can't be bothered with their feelings. yes, we( myself and in laws) are all trying to heal. Apparently ( as what many have posted here) there is no deadline for that. You misunderstood me. There is no deadline for actual healing. But this disrespect that you are enduring with the excuse as "grieving" has got to stop. Unless you don't mind it, that is. I am only trying to help, as is everyone else here that you are starting to lash out at. Most people do NOT allow this kind of disrespect and make excuses for those that do it to them, no matter what their reasons. But somehow they've beaten you down so much that you believe that you are actually at fault for what happened that night and since. You're response was normal and natural and didn't come out of some learned behavior. If someone gave me a lawnmower and made a big deal dedication ceremony about it (like a wedding) and then snuck into my yard and loaned it to someone else for a short period of time, I'd be livid when I found out. Your response to his infidelity was normal. It was you protecting your boundaries. A perfectly normal personal defense mechanism. But if my help or opinion isn't wanted, I will stop posting in your thread.
Author laine_B Posted April 22, 2009 Author Posted April 22, 2009 laine B, you ignored my post. Why is that? Is it because you want to ignore the truth and choose to guilt yourself? Hi Liquid. Im pretty sure I responded to your post. It might not be the answer you expected but there was no way I could ignore you post. No, liquid, I am trying to work through all of these-the pain, the guilt, the sadness-I feel I am ready to confront my "demons", so to speak. Again, I thank you for your post.
NoIDidn't Posted April 22, 2009 Posted April 22, 2009 What questions do you still have, that are unanswered? (and -- no -- it wasn't a smart-alecky question previously, it was just to show you it's a common reaction to infidelity, and God does not kill our H's -- accidents do.) I can imagine she still wants to ask him why he did it, and if he loved her (the OW), and all the other stuff one asks when we find out. But I could be wrong. Her guilt is twisting logic inside out, unfortunately. I think that of all the things that laine B is feeling, the "what if" has wore on her for years. I can't imagine having an argument with my husband and him never coming home because of something like this. My husband doesn't drink, but the possibility of him being in a fatal accident is always present. And I would probably forever regret that my last words to him didn't show him that I loved him. Maybe that's what laine B is dealing with. Maybe her former in-laws have used that regret against her all this time and forced her to lose herself, in a sense. (Athena, I swear I'm not trying to be snarky or condescending! I hope I didn't come off that way. Its hard to relay empathy in print)
LovieDove24 Posted April 22, 2009 Posted April 22, 2009 Wait. Your husband had a short affair when you were 24. You had a baby, who would now be about 5, as you are almost 30. (Why is anyone still dressing this child in baby clothes?? ) He got drunk, confessed to the affair, and you threw him out of the house immediately. He got in his car and was killed. Why do his parents believe that you "killed" him? Were they at your house when he confessed about the affair? How do they know that you had a fight about his infidelity and that you threw him out in your pain? For that matter, how does the OW know about this? Why would she even contact you 5 years post-EMA and send you an email (she still has emails from a 5 year old affair that only lasted 3 months?)? Why in the world would anyoen be giving the XOW sympathy at all, when this was years ago, and how does everyone know about this affair at this point? As for your daugher knowing her dad, she had a lot of years with him, and even if some of her memories fade, the impressions she has of him will never fade. Keep reminding her of special times, and ask her what her special memories are and reinforce those memories with details and repetition, and they will become ingrained. Good luck. In referance to the bolded part I do believe the OP also stated that her child would "never know her father." Why is no one else addressing all the holes in this story? And why is the OP so danged intent on promoting the OW's side of the story, I thought this post was about missing your husband?
Author laine_B Posted April 22, 2009 Author Posted April 22, 2009 I can imagine she still wants to ask him why he did it, and if he loved her (the OW), and all the other stuff one asks when we find out. But I could be wrong. Her guilt is twisting logic inside out, unfortunately. I think that of all the things that laine B is feeling, the "what if" has wore on her for years. I can't imagine having an argument with my husband and him never coming home because of something like this. My husband doesn't drink, but the possibility of him being in a fatal accident is always present. And I would probably forever regret that my last words to him didn't show him that I loved him. Maybe that's what laine B is dealing with. Maybe her former in-laws have used that regret against her all this time and forced her to lose herself, in a sense. (Athena, I swear I'm not trying to be snarky or condescending! I hope I didn't come off that way. Its hard to relay empathy in print) Why do you feel the need to do this? to answer for me, to discuss ME , as if I am not "here" reading your post. This is very rude and hurtful.
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