To AGreatWife re: "Responsibility, blame and outcome"

[pkn06002]

I think what ST was saying is that the WS makes a choice at that point. Have an affair or get a divorce. You chose an affair. Not bashing, just saying there really was a choice, and you made it.

 

Yes in my case I finally did something for myself.

 

While still meeting my legal obligations of the marriage.

 

It irks me something fierce the broad brush strokes many BS's like to use about WS. While saying ALL BS are just victims that have no issues.

[pkn06002]

You blame your wife, you always blame your wife.

 

Oh I blame my wife for the issues before the affair, dare right I do.

 

I did my part in trying to make a good marriage SHE neglected HER PART of the deal.

 

My affair does not erase her issues.

 

Seems to me that most BS's want to claim the sin of the WS is so great they get a pass on an of their issues. Talk about a "what have you done for me lately" mentality.

[Dexter Morgan]

Oh I blame my wife for the issues before the affair, dare right I do.

 

you use the issues in the M to justify your affair...don't say you don't either.

 

I did my part in trying to make a good marriage SHE neglected HER PART of the deal.

 

Yup...yup...it was ALL her fault wasnt it?

 

 

My affair does not erase her issues.

 

And why should it? Its like, "change your ways, or I will stick my d!ck in another woman". Its called emotional extortion...you expect your affair to change her.

 

I agree, she should change, but not because you couldn't keep your pecker in your pants.

 

Your affair doesn't erase her issues? nothing will erase your affair.

 

 

Seems to me that most BS's want to claim the sin of the WS is so great they get a pass on an of their issues. Talk about a "what have you done for me lately" mentality.

 

I'm not going to say I was perfect in my marriage. No marriage is.

 

I sure as hell didn't get all my petty little needs met in my marriage...but you didn't see me going out and screwing other women.

[Dexter Morgan]

Yes

It irks me something fierce the broad brush strokes many BS's like to use about WS. While saying ALL BS are just victims that have no issues.

 

Nobody is saying that...but you just keep telling yourself that in your quest to defend cheaters, and your own despicable decision.

[pkn06002]

Nobody is saying that...but you just keep telling yourself that in your quest to defend cheaters, and your own despicable decision.

 

You know what not engaging.

 

I have my views you have yours there will be understanding between the two.

[Dexter Morgan]

And why did you choose an affair over a divorce?

 

I can answer that for him since he admitted it in another post...money and convenience.

[Dexter Morgan]

You know what not engaging.

 

I have my views you have yours there will be understanding between the two.

 

I can agree on that. You will always side with cheaters, and I will always side with the betrayed.

[pkn06002]

And why did you choose an affair over a divorce?

 

My marriage exceptably meets about 95% of my needs I just took that 5% else where.

 

Why divorce when 95% of your needs are being meet to an exceptable level. It was never about finding a replacement it was about escaping.

[pkn06002]

I can answer that for him since he admitted it in another post...money and convenience.

 

You must add my child's life style to that as well.

 

But good memory.

[pkn06002]

Wow. If my marriage had been 95% satisfactory, I'd have been shouting for joy from the danged rooftops!

 

What could have possibly been so bad about the 5%? Just no sex? Not trying to be a smarta--. Just asking.

 

The 5% covers a lot of ground I have already gone over in other threads. I did not say satisfactory I said exceptable, those to me are two different concepts.

 

Here is the kicker after I TOLD my wife about the affair she realized that for years I have been telling her I was not happy and WHY. It took that dramatic event for her to realize HER issues and to start to address them to get into that satisfactory level.

[Dexter Morgan]

Here is the kicker after I TOLD my wife about the affair she realized that for years I have been telling her I was not happy and WHY. It took that dramatic event for her to realize HER issues and to start to address them to get into that satisfactory level.

 

Yup, you gaslighted her well and blackmailed her into acting how you want.

 

So now the problem is, you cheated...now she has a large hole in her life. How are you going to address that?

[pkn06002]

When did that happen, because not too long ago you were still contemplating divorce. It must have been pretty recent, eh?

 

yes things have been getting better along with my accepting the way things are.

[pkn06002]

Yup, you gaslighted her well and blackmailed her into acting how you want.

 

So now the problem is, you cheated...now she has a large hole in her life. How are you going to address that?

 

I blackmailed her into action, please explain how??

 

Never gave a ultimatum of meet this list or else I get a girlfriend or we divorce.

 

Gaslighted her?? Again how???

 

The large hole in her life is not my problem. See her actions had consequences just like mine do now. She can (and has) chosen to move forward same as I have.

[Owl]

My marriage exceptably meets about 95% of my needs I just took that 5% else where.

 

Why divorce when 95% of your needs are being meet to an exceptable level. It was never about finding a replacement it was about escaping.

 

I've not read through to the end of this thread yet, so I may have missed if there was any other responses to this, but just had to comment here.

 

If your wife was meeting 95% of your needs...what JUSTIFIED your choice to go outside the marriage...to violate your vows...to knowingly and intentionally take action that was certain to result in devestation and chaos to your wife and family...just to get that piddly little 5% met?

 

If that 5% wasn't enough to divorce over...why was it enough to cheat? Why was it enough to wreak the emotional havoc on your wife and family, if it wasn't a big enough deal for you to leave over?

 

One more thought...why would you honestly expect that ANYONE could meet 100% of your needs, 100% of the time?

 

I get what you're saying about how you simply didn't feel like things were bad enough to leave...but they weren't all that you would have liked either.

 

But I don't get why you would cheat if things aren't bad enough to leave?

 

Don't take me wrong...I get that things weren't going right in your marriage. I'll even buy that your wife could well have been a major reason why the bad things weren't getting resolved in your marriage.

 

But you're either unhappy enough to cheat, or you're getting 95% of your needs met. I don't understand how the two coincide.

[pkn06002]

Here let me start with the whole 95% idea. Remember this is my version of 95% not yours. 95% of my needs were being meet to an extent where I could live with it but was not happy. So don't think that 95% was the end all.

 

How do did I figure that someone would me 100% of my needs because that is what we are all told a marriage should be like. We hear that from everywhere. Tell me one place where kids are told that when they grow up marriage will be a compromise where you may not always be happy? So expectations are set pretty high. Add to that the fact that in every relationship I have I shoot to be the best person that woman has ever been involved with. I will go out of my way to make her feel special, loved etc... Expecting that she will do the same back. The whole treat others as you would want to be treated. Bit of a let down (bitterness actually) when that is not done.

 

Emotions are cheap, divorce is expensive. So it is easy to get caught up in meeting that unmeet 5% (which eventually becomes more) at no cost. Throwing away a marriage on some vague feeling, bit of a hard thing to make the leap on.

 

I personally did not contemplate divorce(pre-affair) for several reasons.

 

1) I really did not know the extent of how unhappy I truly was. You can learn to live with a lot when you go along to get along.

 

2) I felt I had an obligation to my family and to have my child grow up in a happy home.

[Owl]

Here let me start with the whole 95% idea. Remember this is my version of 95% not yours. 95% of my needs were being meet to an extent where I could live with it but was not happy. So don't think that 95% was the end all.

 

How do did I figure that someone would me 100% of my needs because that is what we are all told a marriage should be like. We hear that from everywhere. Tell me one place where kids are told that when they grow up marriage will be a compromise where you may not always be happy? So expectations are set pretty high. Add to that the fact that in every relationship I have I shoot to be the best person that woman has ever been involved with. I will go out of my way to make her feel special, loved etc... Expecting that she will do the same back. The whole treat others as you would want to be treated. Bit of a let down (bitterness actually) when that is not done.

 

I can both agree and disagree with this. I guess I've always been too much of a realist in that respect...I've never expected the fairy tale marriage. But, if you go by what our society and culture try to tell you...I can see how you can fall into that trap.

 

Emotions are cheap, divorce is expensive. So it is easy to get caught up in meeting that unmeet 5% (which eventually becomes more) at no cost. Throwing away a marriage on some vague feeling, bit of a hard thing to make the leap on.

 

I personally did not contemplate divorce(pre-affair) for several reasons.

 

1) I really did not know the extent of how unhappy I truly was. You can learn to live with a lot when you go along to get along.

 

2) I felt I had an obligation to my family and to have my child grow up in a happy home.

 

I can understand this. I can see how you might not understand the depth of your unhappiness/dissatisfaction until some catalyst forces you to reassess.

 

Thanks for the response, Pkn.

[Dexter Morgan]

I blackmailed her into action, please explain how??

 

Never gave a ultimatum of meet this list or else I get a girlfriend or we divorce.

 

Gaslighted her?? Again how???

 

by your excuses and justification of why you cheated....you make this all out to be her fault. So if she changed it was because of your cheating and you feel perfectly justified.

 

 

The large hole in her life is not my problem.

 

Oh, but the hole in your life was HER problem eh?

 

Boy, I feel sorry for your wife. You hurt her, and now you are saying it isn't your problem. How utterly despicable.

 

The hole in her life that you caused is not your problem....wow....just wow.

 

 

See her actions had consequences just like mine do now.

 

well if you don't see her pain as your problem, just what were your consequences? If you could care less about her, as you have more than amply proven with what you have said in other posts, and this one by saying her pain is not not your problem, then what possibly could your consequences be?

 

 

She can (and has) chosen to move forward same as I have.

 

You haven't chosen to move forward, you have chosen to hold her hostage in the marriage by only being in it for money, convenience, and the excuse of your child.

 

You are not moving forward....you are abusing her.

[NoIDidn't]

I agree with Dext. And I usually don't, so go figure.

 

This is just plain abuse. I'm surprised that Owl didn't call you on believing the fairy tales and acting as if marriage was your personal kingdom. Most of us learn before marriage that its not "happily ever after" and continuing to believe that anyway just sets one up for failure because there is no such thing as perfection if humans are involved.

 

Time to grow up. Your actions have caused your W great harm and pain, and instead of capitalizing on her pain to get her to do what you've always wanted - maybe, just maybe - you should explore the love that's behind that hurt.

 

This is really angering to read how much you don't care about her pain because of your own consequences. She is a victim. Your victim. I wonder how you treated your OW given how you are treating your W.

 

Grow up and stop using women to balance your own need sheet.

[pkn06002]

I am holding her hostage??? What I have her tied up in the basement?

 

She is free to leave at any time, we have discussed this. I already know the financial impacts and have discussed those with her also. I have hidden none of those things.

 

My consequences???? I have had to deal with all of the fall out from the affair. Both her pain and mine, working through both to get to a place that is workable. I know that is not payment enough in your eyes, but that is the way it is. We both hurt each other with being selfish, the only way to fix that is to work on ourselves and address those issues.

 

Oh I guess I would be better off with out her changing? Better off without her becoming an active part of the marriage instead of relying on her vows to "protect" her. Sorry the changes seem to be a better thing, which could've happened before the affair. But she was not interested in making those changes because she was happy, screw if I was right.

 

Your the BS is a victim mentality does not work with me Dexter. Because I just don't see it that way. Marriage is an even partnership and rarely are the issues one sided, regardless of the claims by either the BS or WS. So plenty of blame to go around for EVERYONE to play the victim.

[OWoman]

You haven't chosen to move forward, you have chosen to hold her hostage in the marriage by only being in it for money, convenience, and the excuse of your child.

 

You are not moving forward....you are abusing her.

 

This bit I don't get - surely she's as free to leave the M as pkn was? If she doesn't like the "ultimatum" he presented, she's free to leave and find someone who will treat her the way she'd prefer to be treated, surely?

 

If she feels abused, why is she staying? Is it not her choice then, and something in which she is as complicit as he?

[pkn06002]

I agree with Dext. And I usually don't, so go figure.

 

This is just plain abuse. I'm surprised that Owl didn't call you on believing the fairy tales and acting as if marriage was your personal kingdom. Most of us learn before marriage that its not "happily ever after" and continuing to believe that anyway just sets one up for failure because there is no such thing as perfection if humans are involved.

 

Time to grow up. Your actions have caused your W great harm and pain, and instead of capitalizing on her pain to get her to do what you've always wanted - maybe, just maybe - you should explore the love that's behind that hurt.

 

This is really angering to read how much you don't care about her pain because of your own consequences. She is a victim. Your victim. I wonder how you treated your OW given how you are treating your W.

 

Grow up and stop using women to balance your own need sheet.

 

Oh the victim card and explore the love behind that hurt, how touching.

 

News for you my wife did NOT KNOW I was in an affair. Because she was HAPPY, which when I told her what I had done surprised her.

 

The OW oh she liked me well enough to be involved for 3+ years. Because I treated her way better than her husband did.

 

Don't worry I rely on NO ONE anymore to meet my needs. I do that just fine by myself.

 

Tell me where do people get told the fairy tail of marriage is incorrect??? Oh no you are told how great it is and how wonderful life will be married. For a few years it is, NO ONE is ever honest and tells you what it will be like years down the road, once everyone is settled in.

[Dexter Morgan]

My consequences???? I have had to deal with all of the fall out from the affair. Both her pain and mine, working through both to get to a place that is workable.

 

ah, but her pain isn't your problem.....remember. Nothing is your fault...its all on her.

 

 

Oh I guess I would be better off with out her changing?

 

No, but she would be better off without you....whether she knows it or not.

 

 

Better off without her becoming an active part of the marriage instead of relying on her vows to "protect" her. Sorry the changes seem to be a better thing, which could've happened before the affair.

 

Yes, but according to you, she did change. So what are you doing? Staying with her out of convenience.

 

She changed....and you just kept your entitlement attitude and your lousy outlook with regards to your wife. I feel for her.

 

 

Your the BS is a victim mentality does not work with me Dexter.

 

I don't have a BS is the victim mentality when it comes to problems in a marriage. I am full aware that problems in a marriage are usually shared 50/50.

 

But she IS a victim of YOUR cheating. And as far as problems in the marriage....YOU blame HER for everything while acting like you could do no wrong.....which is utter bulls##t.

 

 

Because I just don't see it that way. Marriage is an even partnership and rarely are the issues one sided

 

then why are you making it one sided and blaming your wife for everything?

 

 

regardless of the claims by either the BS or WS. So plenty of blame to go around for EVERYONE to play the victim.

 

I have yet to see you blame yourself for any of the problems in the marriage....and even though it was your choice to cheat...you blame her for that too.

 

Why are you even married to begin with when you have that much contempt for your wife? You had to have had that view before.

[Dexter Morgan]

This bit I don't get - surely she's as free to leave the M as pkn was? If she doesn't like the "ultimatum" he presented, she's free to leave and find someone who will treat her the way she'd prefer to be treated, surely?

 

If she feels abused, why is she staying? Is it not her choice then, and something in which she is as complicit as he?

 

ask PKN if he told her, as he told us in other threads, that he is ONLY staying married out of convenience and that he isn't staying for her at all.

 

I bet he didn't tell her that, and if he says he is, he is either lying...or she has issues of her own.

 

He is abusing her if he is expecting her to make all these changes and is putting on a facade to make her think that the marriage is recovering when he has no real desire to be in it in the first place. Hence, the abuse.

[Dexter Morgan]

TOTALLY agree. He told his wife. It's not like he's continuing the affair and lying to her.

 

I'm very much against cheating (as if y'all didn't know already ), but pkn DID tell his wife he was unhappy. He DID address the issues, but she wasn't interested in working on their relation, and he DID tell her of the affair. She is now free to make informed choices, and she chooses to remain with pkn.

 

He didn't tell her that he isn't staying with her because he wants her...he could care less. He is staying with her out of convenience. She doesn't know that, and if she did, she'd have to be screwed in the head not to want to hire an attorney.

 

He is letting her think he wants this marriage, letting her make all the changes, all the while he is keeping his sh#tty attitude and contempt for her and not really wanting to work on the marriage. He is playing her.

[Dexter Morgan]

divorce is expensive.

 

but oh so well worth it and even more so would it be for your wife.

 

best money I ever spent hands down:cool: