klarika Posted April 20, 2009 Posted April 20, 2009 Hello, A month ago I found out that my husband had been secretly having a close friendship with a co-worker. We have a long distance marriage and hopefully be together soon. I will detail some of the most important things that happened between the two of them: - He went out in a group of friends (he has pictures with her, very close pictures, during the party and they were drinking heavily), came back and went to her appartment where he drank with her (allegedely) very late at night. He had his phone switched off and lied to me afterwards about his whereabouts. He says nothing happened but I find it hard to believe. - He went out drinking with her at least once that he can remember in the evening, just the two of them. - He stayed again with her in their office after an office party, again late at night and drinking (he also took close up pictures of her while doing this) while I was in the hospital the next day after a surgery. - He was planning on going out with her again but they just did not find an open bar. - He told her about our fights and about our relationship. - He was chatting constantly with her, and they were meeting at work as well. - He never told me about this, I found out by myself and when confronted, he said it was just a close friendship. He did not feel comfortable telling me about it because I do not like for him to have female friends, which he always had before meeting me. He also continued to lie about the extent of their relationship until he finally came clean with (I hope) everything. He says he never heard of emotional affairs before but knew that the relationship with her was wrong and did not want to hurt me by telling me. He says he would not have ever told me if I did not find out. - After me losing sleep and sanity on it, he finally understood the extent of his wrongful behavior. He stopped all contact with her (although at the beginning he still wanted to work with her because he enjoyed the work, he does not work with her anymore, not because I told him so but because it became professionally unwise and not beneficial). He started telling me where he is and what he is doing constantly. He also stopped blaming me for his actions (since at the beginning he said he could not talk to me, this is why he felt more comfortable talking to her). He also says he was never consciously attracted to her (although he admits that the pictures he has taken of her were flirtatious). He says that he enjoyed her more than he enjoyed me at the time. - Some days I feel like I can do it, some days I feel like once the trust is gone, there is nothing there anymore, and it will never be. Like a vase that is broken and we try to fix it, even if glued, it is never whole again. I still obsess over this and it still hurts tremendously. And I am often think of divorce as the only solution. I do not believe in marriages patched up after an affair. - Will it stop, the hurt I mean, will I stop hurting? Did he really have an EA? Sometimes I want to believe he did not so that I can trust him again, although I honestly know he did have an EA. Any advice? Thank you.
LucreziaBorgia Posted April 20, 2009 Posted April 20, 2009 The chances of him not sleeping with her are about .0000000000000001. I'd be considering an STD test for you both, and if you really want to push it - insist on this choice: a lie detector test or a divorce. No inbetween. The truth tends to come out when there is no choice but to lose everything if it doesn't.
angie2443 Posted April 20, 2009 Posted April 20, 2009 I doubt if it was just an EA. Really, though, does it matter? I think you two should invest in a good MC if you want this relationship to work. I understand he has cleaned up his behavior somewhat, but, it can easily slip back to what it was once he feels it is safe to do something. One question- does your husband drink a lot? Just read the above post. I agree with the STD testing idea.
carhill Posted April 20, 2009 Posted April 20, 2009 He did not feel comfortable telling me about it because I do not like for him to have female friends, which he always had before meeting me. OK, did he really have platonic female friends prior to you? If he did, and you overtly or covertly pressured him to compromise this, it's possible he did just have an EA and no PA. If by "friends" you mean he was hitting on and sleeping with multiple women, no way. What was his sexual pattern with you? Did he meet you while with someone else? FWIW, I did all the things you noted in your OP (not at the same time or even during the same decade) and never had sexual contact with the person. I respected our friendship and respective relationships too much to do that. IMO, if you want to work through this, you'll need professional help to work on yourselves and the M, as well as to deal with his drinking issues. Are you willing to do some hard work? Is he? Unknown... There's a reason you didn't like him having female friends. Therapy will help both of you get to the bottom of it. It's not all him, you know
Lizzie60 Posted April 20, 2009 Posted April 20, 2009 he has pictures with her, very close pictures, during the party and they were drinking heavily), came back and went to her appartment where he drank with her (allegedely) very late at night. He had his phone switched off and lied to me afterwards about his whereabouts. in the evening, just the two of them. He stayed again with her in their office after an office party, again late at night and drinking He was chatting constantly with her, and they were meeting at work as well. he said it was just a close friendship. He stopped all contact with her He also says he was never consciously attracted to her I think you should believe everything he said.. of course he wasn't attracted to her.. and of course he never had anything physical.. even late at night with her in her apartment.. Of course it was just close, platonic friendship... The nerve to think he's cheating and lying.. I totally believe him..
Author klarika Posted April 20, 2009 Author Posted April 20, 2009 Hello, He used to drink although he lied to me about it, now I know he does not anymore. Of course given that this is a LDR, it is more difficult to be certain of things. About the fact that did they or did they not sleep together, could you believe that he told me that he used to have friends that were girls before me...although, again, when he had a girlfriend he was not having such close relationships with women on the side. He says that nothing happened. He swears that nothing happened. Could it be impossible that really nothing happened? Could somebody still lie at this point? Seeing how distraught I am? Thank you.
carhill Posted April 20, 2009 Posted April 20, 2009 He also says he was never consciously attracted to her Missed that one. He's probably lying there. I would have never (and didn't) say that. Anyone in the same room as she and I would have known I was lying. That said, one does not have to act on attraction. Women restrain themselves all the time. Men can too; it's just harder
Author klarika Posted April 20, 2009 Author Posted April 20, 2009 For Carhill, Thank you very much, your insight is correct. He did have women friends before me, however he says that he did not have this kind of behavior with a woman when in a relationship. On the other hand, he had, before me, only one serious relationship...and that one even very short. My question is: for me is of paramout importance whether he slept with her or not. In your opinion, as man that had platonic friendships with women, do you believe that it is possible, under those circumstances, for nothing to have happened between the two of them? I understand from your answer that you were in similar situations in your life. Anything comparable to what I described and still no sex or any romantic gestures/feelings involved? Thank you.
Molley Posted April 20, 2009 Posted April 20, 2009 Klarika, Cheating spouses lie, and lie and lie.... he will tell you to your face that he didn't sleep with her when he did. Sorry to tell you. I'm just at the beginning stages of trying to repair my marriage after my H had an A. He also told me that they were just friends, she was someone he met and they were talking, she was helping him through being unhappy... bla, bla, bla... I started checking around, found stuff on his computer, then I checked cell phone records and realized they had been talking non stop to each other for over a month. I called her up, left a message asking her to please clarify their relationship. She notified my H, he came home and confessed. It's been a total nightmare since trying to get over the pain and to figure out if this marriage is worth saving (which I believe it is.) Yes, his affair started out because he needed the emotional support, a woman to stroke his needs, but it ended up with them in bed. He still insists it wasn't about the sex, and that's the problem... it's the emotional needs that the OW fulfills... This woman, whether it was an EA or PA replaced you in your husbands heart and mind... now he needs to get over her in order to concentrate on you again and make you the most important person in his life. Good luck to you, I know your pain...
carhill Posted April 20, 2009 Posted April 20, 2009 could you believe that he told me that he used to have friends that were girls before me...although, again, when he had a girlfriend he was not having such close relationships with women on the side.Depends. If he seeks validation from women (of his manhood), less likely to believe. If he has long-lasting continuous friendships with women and has approached your M with that kind of emotional intensity, more likely. In the latter case, which I've experienced, the emotional and spiritual components of the friendships became more focused on the partner, as the partner became prioritized over those the man knew prior but in a platonic sense. You'll overwhelmingly hear he had a PA on you but I'm trying to offer a balanced viewpoint. Only you know your circumstances. Anything comparable to what I described and still no sex or any romantic gestures/feelings involved?Again, circumstantial, but IMO, based on my psychology and experiences and the actions you have related, it's possible that there were/are no sexual relations but highly unlikely that there have been no romantic feelings and/or gestures. I'm being as realistic as I can here. I could even tell you one instance about how my feelings changed from platonic and supportive to the romantic gestures/feelings you talk about. You can read about it in my 3 cats and a mouse journal. Again, I didn't act on it but it was there, plain to see. IMO, admitting the realities of our feelings and getting things out in the open is so important, even if just to ourselves and our partners. I don't envy your position. If you can get help (MC helped me a lot) and clarify your relationship before proceeding further, I think that would be preferable. I know LDM complicates this. I would, at minimum, suggest IC for yourself, to deal with your feelings in a controlled environment. It might help you develop tools to both work with your H as well as to decide if the M is still healthy for you. IMO, this OP is a symptom. You need to discover the real issue. Best wishes
Author klarika Posted April 20, 2009 Author Posted April 20, 2009 Hi everybody and thank you for your support. It seems I cannot concentrate on anything else today (they are days though when I can:)) so I wanted to let you know that he agreed to a lie detector test as well as to hypnotism. I am afraid I do not trust him (realistically expected under these circumstances) and I will need to see the results of these tests. Has anybody gone through something similar in the sense that they went through these types of truth finding processes? Thank you.
Lizzie60 Posted April 20, 2009 Posted April 20, 2009 I am a good liar so I think I can 'cheated' on these tests.. These tests are NOT accurate.. and from what I read.. he's pretty good in 'serious lying'.. so he probably knows he can 'cheat' the system..
jwi71 Posted April 20, 2009 Posted April 20, 2009 - He stayed again with her in their office after an office party, again late at night and drinking (he also took close up pictures of her while doing this) while I was in the hospital the next day after a surgery. Ignoring ALL the other red flags...this one really strikes me. If MY W were having surgery/in the hospital...nothing on God's green earth would keep me from her UNTIL SHE WAS HOME AND RECOVERED. Yet...he's out with another woman. He doesn't sound very COMMITTED to you.
angie2443 Posted April 20, 2009 Posted April 20, 2009 Ignoring ALL the other red flags...this one really strikes me. If MY W were having surgery/in the hospital...nothing on God's green earth would keep me from her UNTIL SHE WAS HOME AND RECOVERED. Yet...he's out with another woman. He doesn't sound very COMMITTED to you. Klarika, I just re-read your post after reading this post. This is cold behavior on your husband's part and one the biggest red flags of all that you two need counseling.
carhill Posted April 20, 2009 Posted April 20, 2009 He might also be emotionally detached, as I was. Decorum would have prevented me from acting in such a callous manner, however. Agree with the counseling suggestion. That brought far better results (and truth) for us than any "truth finding" methods could have. The pivotal issue is that he wants counseling to understand himself, his role and his behavior better and to become a healthier partner. It won't work unless he wants it to.
sugarmomma Posted April 20, 2009 Posted April 20, 2009 Klarika, You will drive yourself crazy tryin to trust an untrustworthy person. I would suggest you take some time for yourself to figure out why you still want to be with someone who has cheated( and more than likely he did). married or not, it can be torture trying to stay with someone who has been unfaithful. Maybe that is just who he is and you can accept that or leave him alone. You can't force him to be faithful especially considering this is a ldr. He is likely to cheat and maybe you should just focus on you and what willl make you happy.
Author klarika Posted April 20, 2009 Author Posted April 20, 2009 Hello everybody, The surgery happened when I was away from him (in a different country) and he said that he could not have helped me regardless. He also sustains constantly that he did not consider her more than a friend. I do tend to be controlling. However, I always took him for his word when he was telling me something. Until now, when I cannot believe him anymore. I would like to divorce, but I cannot see myself doing this. When this happened, when he started this relationship, it was three months after our marriage. We had to separate immediately after. It is a young marriage, so I am afraid of not giving it up too soon. I have many defects, however I would have liked to solve them within our marriage and not outside. Running to another woman/man to solve your marriage problems was really not what I had in mind. I did have and do have male friends, some of who are very close to me. However, I never lied of their existence or of the extent of my friendship with them. I voluntarily offered information and shared my life with my husband. This is what I expected of him as well. It still strikes me, what happened to me, like a bad dream. I guess I never thought it could happen to me. And, yes, the physical aspect would be more devastating to me. Also if they were romantic feelings involved - he says they were none. I have to reconcile two aspects: what he says and how I feel sometimes that he does tell me the truth and what actually happened. He is trying to make things work, however if I am to stay I will have to get rid of my ideal of marrying and trusting my partner forever, constantly, like my best friend and my safest harbor. Then, it means that marriage is not what I imagined. I wanted a partnership, the best and the most honest partnership. Did not expect money, I am very good in making them, did not expect good looks, I am very very pretty myself and do not appreciate necessarily somebody's good looks, but his/her soul, I just wanted a partnership. A long term, solid, 100% trustworthy partnership. And, emotional connection. This one, I am sure I could have worked more on, because I am a bit emotionally rigid by nature and believe that since I am honest and I am communicating, I should not tend too much to other people's feelings. Thank you for your insights. Forums like this helped me after I found out about this thing to realize I was not going insane and exagerrating. I was actually very much right. I am impatiently looking for your inputs. I hope to contribute to other threads as well, although my relationship experience, as you might reckon, is not that fortunate.
whichwayisup Posted April 20, 2009 Posted April 20, 2009 We have a long distance marriage and hopefully be together soon. Fact is, he cheated so soon after your marriage and now you don't trust him (only he and the OW know the truth about having sex together) it isn't worth saving. And it's long distance so you have no way of verifying what he is saying about not having sex. If I were in your shoes I would assume they did have sex. Sorry to say that, but there's NO way it didn't happen since drinking was involved and they were alone together too.
Lizzie60 Posted April 20, 2009 Posted April 20, 2009 I always took him for his word when he was telling me something. Until now, when I cannot believe him anymore. Of course.. why shouldn't he lie? He knows he can manipulate you.. and you will believe his lies... he was 'safe' until now... Now.. he will do everything he can to make you believe his lies.. and go back the way you've always been.. a trusting wife.... so that he can continue to have his little escapades. And trust me.. they were physical... to think that a MM would see another woman as much as he saw this woman.. etc.. and that they were 'just friends' is very naive.. IMO.
angie2443 Posted April 20, 2009 Posted April 20, 2009 I have many defects, however I would have liked to solve them within our marriage and not outside. Running to another woman/man to solve your marriage problems was really not what I had in mind. He is trying to make things work, however if I am to stay I will have to get rid of my ideal of marrying and trusting my partner forever, constantly, like my best friend and my safest harbor. Then, it means that marriage is not what I imagined. I wanted a partnership, the best and the most honest partnership. Did not expect money, I am very good in making them, did not expect good looks, I am very very pretty myself and do not appreciate necessarily somebody's good looks, but his/her soul, I just wanted a partnership. A long term, solid, 100% trustworthy partnership. . It is a young marriage which means that this is the time to get out if the ingrediants for a healthy marriage aren't there. It appears as if they aren't. Look at what you wrote. Don't settle for less because the less you expect, the less you'll get.
Lizzie60 Posted April 20, 2009 Posted April 20, 2009 My bet is no matter what we say... she 'believe' him once again.. I agree that this is the time to get out ... BEFORE you have kids.. because, mark my words.. you're in for a verrry painful life with this man.
jwi71 Posted April 20, 2009 Posted April 20, 2009 Having been married and separated by 20 hour flight myself for many months I will ONLY say this: I was consumed with missing her. Not another woman. This is a case of "The cats away and the mice will play". And I WOULD STILL be there for her surgery. Most tourist visas are at least 30 days during my extensive travels (and living abroad). He offers excuses and you lap 'em up. I'm with Lizzie on this (and for God's sake change your avatar back!)
Lizzie60 Posted April 20, 2009 Posted April 20, 2009 I'm with Lizzie on this (and for God's sake change your avatar back!) Thank you .. I will as soon as I get home..
Owl Posted April 20, 2009 Posted April 20, 2009 I agree with Lizzie's assessment on this. He's had no reason to change...he's suffered no consequences for his actions. Lizzie, the only thing I don't get is this...how can you say "I agree that this is the time to get out ... BEFORE you have kids.. because, mark my words.. you're in for a verrry painful life with this man." given your belief that affairs help marriages? It seems rather contradictory to me.
Author klarika Posted April 20, 2009 Author Posted April 20, 2009 What about still loving him? And, still believing him? I have a small part of me still believing he did not sleep with her. He seems very remorseful about the whole situation. This is what confuses me. Thank you. I take both sides of the story, because honestly, my situation is very uncertain. I just thought we were really made for each other. We overcame many things in trying to be together and I thought I made the right choice.
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