Reggie Posted April 21, 2009 Posted April 21, 2009 No, you're in an exit affair, priming yourself to check out of a doomed marriage. I agree, you are in an emotional exit affair. This is unfair to your H and you should start divorce proceedings, so he can seek similar adventures.
gopher Posted April 21, 2009 Posted April 21, 2009 I agree.. it's NOT the OW fault.. But there is two sides ... the BS and the MP.. If the MP would get a lot of sex... would have fun... had a great emotional connection... he/she would NOT be out there.. So there is always fault on both sides.. At the point an OW finds out the man is married, it should be ended. End of story...I'm not sure why this is such a hard concept for some people.
Mino Posted April 21, 2009 Posted April 21, 2009 I guess I can comment on this one since I am getting a view of what my mm M was like. my mm has been sm for almost 10 months. We do spend everyday together, and even though he has his place and I have mine, I am there everyday with him. I never thought I would say this , but I AM getting a view of how there M worked. He is not the same guy I had A r with during our A. In a way I feel many times we are mirroring his M. Our daily routine is so similar to his M. He is a terrible comunicator. Wierd, before he seperated, and during the A, he was great at talking. Now... well, different story. He thinks he can raise his voice that I back down like his w did. I can reallly see WHY and HOW the M broke down. She gave up trying to talk to him years ago. This is what I see NOW. I on the other hand , wont back down, and literally have to keep coming at him for him to finally talk. No fun, and fusterating at times. So I have changed my OP on thats its her fault too, in my case. They were both experts in being superficial, and sweeping all issues that my be unpleasant under the carpet. But I can also say that I understand her alot better today, seeing that he is not very open to talk unless forced, and I think she just finally got tired of trying to talk and thats is where she finally decided to just turn the other way. He then started our A. Dont get me wrong, I love my sm, but the picture I once had, does not excist anymore, I have gotten a real dose of reality once he had his own place.
Mino Posted April 21, 2009 Posted April 21, 2009 With over 50% of all MM having an affair at some point in their marriage, I find it hard to believe that most of them "have deeper issues that need to be addressed." That's an awful lot of men. deeper issues could be just not wanting to talk about "feelings". I think that 50% of men fall into that catagorie of just not wanting to talk. Over time, small issues become big issues, and it just starts snowballing from there. maybe we should make men take a " how to comunicate with your woman" class!!! I bet the divorce rate would drop by another 30%
whichwayisup Posted April 21, 2009 Posted April 21, 2009 am there everyday with him. I never thought I would say this , but I AM getting a view of how there M worked. He is not the same guy I had A r with during our A. In a way I feel many times we are mirroring his M. Our daily routine is so similar to his M. I love my sm, but the picture I once had, does not excist anymore, I have gotten a real dose of reality once he had his own place. I guess it's more than likey because he didn't get to be alone after leaving his wife, to get rid of old habits, routines etc...He just jumped out of his marriage and straight out of the A mode and into a regular relationship. He needs to learn how to communicate better, so he won't end up cheating on you when things get too hard or he doesn't feel like putting in the effort to work on things. Are you happy with him? I mean as happy as you were (in the sense of intense feelings) during the A?
RinClavin Posted April 21, 2009 Posted April 21, 2009 No, you're in an exit affair, priming yourself to check out of a doomed marriage. I agree, you are in an emotional exit affair. This is unfair to your H and you should start divorce proceedings, so he can seek similar adventures. OW - Thanks for your take on it. I'm not ready to give up on my marriage just yet and I have ended the EA (or at least all actions related to it. We don't talk on the phone anymore and I have no physical contact with him so I'm not participating in an EA, although my feelings for him are the same as they were when we were talking). My husband is trying to understand my emotional needs, and I'm trying to understand and acknowledge our different needs in those areas so that I don't expect too much. Reggie - I'm curious how it is unfair to my husband when I have stopped communications with the OM and discussed everything with my husband and HE is the one that maintains everything is fine and I am free to talk to the OM (even though we are not talking). I really am trying my best to grow with my husband instead of away from him and address our problems head on. Right now he's trying too, although he doesn't understand why we need to since he's content to not talk. I'm just curious what you think is unfair?
Mino Posted April 21, 2009 Posted April 21, 2009 I guess it's more than likey because he didn't get to be alone after leaving his wife, to get rid of old habits, routines etc...He just jumped out of his marriage and straight out of the A mode and into a regular relationship. He needs to learn how to communicate better, so he won't end up cheating on you when things get too hard or he doesn't feel like putting in the effort to work on things. Are you happy with him? I mean as happy as you were (in the sense of intense feelings) during the A?Hi wwiup, Your right, I should have taken a break, but hard to do 4 years into it. Yes, I am happy, but not as happy as I thought I would be. many new issues with his ex, plus we have settled in to a new life, so sure the hight the A brings is gone, but that has been gone already the last two years. I guess the picture of who he presented himself to be during the affair, was just a fairy tale, and today, he is nowwhere near that picture. But I love him all the same. I see his flaws now clearly... I see how he contributed to his breakdown of his M. And again, I see why the w, reacted the way she did. She was tired... I try like hell to keep comunication open, but its a challenge. He does great once he gets started, but getting him there is a challenge.
joybean72 Posted April 21, 2009 Posted April 21, 2009 In many cases it isn't for lack of trying to communicate, as Mino is realizing. Having dealt with passive aggressiveness & a conflict avoider it is NO joke...it is cruel, damaging, & exhausting. Like Mino...I would not give up, I wanted the answers about his drug use, the affairs...etc. but if it wasn't about Nascar, Larry The Cable Guy, sex, having fun, what was for dinner (Just to name a few examples)...it was not something that needed to be talked about apparently. So it was swept under the rug on HIS end, which in turn made me fester. I'm not looking for sympathy or validation as a BS like I was when I got here...I was emotionally spent by that point. I KNOW what I did to try & communicate with him. Like Mino, when we were dating...we talked about everything. (Or so I thought!) NOT the case though. Mino, I hope to hell that he seeks counseling for the sake of your relationship. You cannot be the only one doing the work...it will only end up hurting you.
NoIDidn't Posted April 21, 2009 Posted April 21, 2009 I can reallly see WHY and HOW the M broke down. She gave up trying to talk to him years ago. This is what I see NOW. I on the other hand , wont back down, and literally have to keep coming at him for him to finally talk. No fun, and fusterating at times. So I have changed my OP on thats its her fault too, in my case. Very insightful post. But I don't see how she could have ever been blamed for him deciding to have an affair. Ever. This is the case in most MPs: having poor communication skills and then being conflict avoiders (because they can't come up with the words to begin with).
Mino Posted April 21, 2009 Posted April 21, 2009 In many cases it isn't for lack of trying to communicate, as Mino is realizing. Having dealt with passive aggressiveness & a conflict avoider it is NO joke...it is cruel, damaging, & exhausting. Like Mino...I would not give up, I wanted the answers about his drug use, the affairs...etc. but if it wasn't about Nascar, Larry The Cable Guy, sex, having fun, what was for dinner (Just to name a few examples)...it was not something that needed to be talked about apparently. So it was swept under the rug on HIS end, which in turn made me fester. I'm not looking for sympathy or validation as a BS like I was when I got here...I was emotionally spent by that point. I KNOW what I did to try & communicate with him. Like Mino, when we were dating...we talked about everything. (Or so I thought!) NOT the case though. Mino, I hope to hell that he seeks counseling for the sake of your relationship. You cannot be the only one doing the work...it will only end up hurting you.Thanks joybean, for the tip, I will mention this to him, when the oppurtunity arises:rolleyes:
Mino Posted April 21, 2009 Posted April 21, 2009 Very insightful post. But I don't see how she could have ever been blamed for him deciding to have an affair. Ever. This is the case in most MPs: having poor communication skills and then being conflict avoiders (because they can't come up with the words to begin with).Maybe you misunderstand me, I dont blame her.....I understand why she stuck her head in the sand all these years....He avoids conflict, he has a problem not comunicating. He like everything to be fine. When I feel there is an issue I want to talk about, he wants to shut me down, with "not now....So whatever issue they were having in there M, I am sure she voiced it at the begining of their M, but I am pretty sure HE didnt want to talk about it... So after a while she put him on ignore... He somewhere along the line felt neglected and A began... She is very similialar to him, conflict avoider.... Where I myself, cant breath until I TALK about whatever is bothering me. I am unable to sweep away... So I dont give up till he takes the time to talk...but that can take days.... Once he starts, its great... he is capable... But no, I understand her better now, now that I see his bad habits... and I am sure over a dcade, that got tiresome to her...
Dexter Morgan Posted April 21, 2009 Posted April 21, 2009 Sometimes the BS is completely innocent. I know the many, many times I cheated in various relationships, it wasn't because of anything missing in the relationship. It was because of something missing inside myself. watch out now, you are throwing cheaters under a bus here. they aren't going to want you taking away their excuse
Reggie Posted April 21, 2009 Posted April 21, 2009 Maybe I misunderstood. I thought you disclosed a past affair, but were now continuing,clandestinely, due to the fact that you felt your H needed to express his objection and that he was not meeting your needs. Not sure why anyone would feel the need to have their spouse voice an objection to cheating, unless it is some ego stroke thing. But, if he knows you are continuing to be emotionally involved with the guy after the intial disclosure, I guess there is nothing unfair about that.
White Flower Posted April 21, 2009 Posted April 21, 2009 She did offer one kind of excuse. There is always a reason whether they blame the BS, they have something missing within themselves, or they're just sexually addicted fiends.
bentnotbroken Posted April 21, 2009 Posted April 21, 2009 She did offer one kind of excuse. There is always a reason whether they blame the BS, they have something missing within themselves, or they're just sexually addicted fiends. Or just plain old jackazzes.
White Flower Posted April 21, 2009 Posted April 21, 2009 Or just plain old jackazzes. Could be a jacka$$ is missing something AND is a sexually addicted fiend?
bentnotbroken Posted April 21, 2009 Posted April 21, 2009 Could be a jacka$$ is missing something AND is a sexually addicted fiend? Ahh, the jackazz, sex addicted fiend. :eek:Now that is a creature in need of castration.
NoIDidn't Posted April 22, 2009 Posted April 22, 2009 Maybe you misunderstand me, I dont blame her.....I understand why she stuck her head in the sand all these years....He avoids conflict, he has a problem not comunicating. He like everything to be fine. When I feel there is an issue I want to talk about, he wants to shut me down, with "not now....So whatever issue they were having in there M, I am sure she voiced it at the begining of their M, but I am pretty sure HE didnt want to talk about it... So after a while she put him on ignore... He somewhere along the line felt neglected and A began... She is very similialar to him, conflict avoider.... Where I myself, cant breath until I TALK about whatever is bothering me. I am unable to sweep away... So I dont give up till he takes the time to talk...but that can take days.... Once he starts, its great... he is capable... But no, I understand her better now, now that I see his bad habits... and I am sure over a dcade, that got tiresome to her... No misunderstanding, but thanks for the explanation since you thought I misunderstood. You said that you changed from thinking his having an A was her fault. I took that to mean that you did at one time feel that his having an affair is her fault. I will say this, too. She probably was very similar to you in the beginning of their marriage and fought to keep communication open - much like you are seeing how he fights to shut it down. Guess who usually wins in that kind of conflict? The one that's shutting it down, not the one that's trying to talk it out. You guys might benefit from couple's counselling, now that you're a couple and he's still trying to put his head in the sand. I think she just joined him in Conflict Avoider Land, against her will. Did she even notice when he left? LOL. The worst part for you is that he probably doesn't even notice that he does it. I wouldn't be surprised to hear you say that he complains that he just left a woman like that, when you try to make him talk.
bentnotbroken Posted April 22, 2009 Posted April 22, 2009 I'd say Mino's man's ex got the better end of the deal. She is going to find her voice again and he is going to continue to try to break the will of who ever is in his wake.
NoIDidn't Posted April 22, 2009 Posted April 22, 2009 She is going to find her voice again and he is going to continue to try to break the will of who ever is in his wake. That's exactly what conflict avoiders attempt. They attempt to silence you because they are scared. Unfortunately, though. Most men are conflict avoiders until they have to grow up and face the music or whatever it is that they are avoiding.
Mino Posted April 22, 2009 Posted April 22, 2009 No misunderstanding, but thanks for the explanation since you thought I misunderstood. You said that you changed from thinking his having an A was her fault. I took that to mean that you did at one time feel that his having an affair is her fault. I will say this, too. She probably was very similar to you in the beginning of their marriage and fought to keep communication open - much like you are seeing how he fights to shut it down. Guess who usually wins in that kind of conflict? The one that's shutting it down, not the one that's trying to talk it out. You guys might benefit from couple's counselling, now that you're a couple and he's still trying to put his head in the sand. I think she just joined him in Conflict Avoider Land, against her will. Did she even notice when he left? LOL. The worst part for you is that he probably doesn't even notice that he does it. I wouldn't be surprised to hear you say that he complains that he just left a woman like that, when you try to make him talk.well I must admit I did think she was at fault as well because she just didnt bother. She never question anything, and when I did have the oppurtunity once to speak to her, I asked her how the hell she does it, knowing about the A, she responded with "I just do: That was totally wierd for me. But now I know that she just gave up talking, and she disconnected emotionally a long time ago. There fore making it easier to stick her head in the sand. I am not sure if she was ever AS verbal as me, I hear she is quiet person and overly nice. An I do believe your right, I dont think she even noticed much when he left. She seems to be getting on with her life very well. I do cheer her on and wish her happiness. Your also right about him not noticing what he is doing. The next day he acts as if I never said anything and he is his usual friendly self. BUT, I of coarse, can't hold it in, and continue where I left off, eventually he cant run and opens up. Its like pulling teeth... ugh:mad:
Mino Posted April 22, 2009 Posted April 22, 2009 I'd say Mino's man's ex got the better end of the deal. She is going to find her voice again and he is going to continue to try to break the will of who ever is in his wake. I guess time will tell. Now i am not glooming and dooming, I AM happy that we have move with our R forward, the purpose of my posting was to say how I Now see more on how their m broke down. Something I didnt see while we were in the A. He was almost perfect in every way:love: !! Now he is human, with flaws. But my love for him is still the same..
NoIDidn't Posted April 22, 2009 Posted April 22, 2009 well I must admit I did think she was at fault as well because she just didnt bother. She never question anything, and when I did have the oppurtunity once to speak to her, I asked her how the hell she does it, knowing about the A, she responded with "I just do: That was totally wierd for me. But now I know that she just gave up talking, and she disconnected emotionally a long time ago. There fore making it easier to stick her head in the sand. I can totally understand how she got there. But I don't consider it being her putting herhead in the sand. She just gave up. She didn't care anymore. Being married to him was probably a huge drain on her emotionally, so she shut him out. An I do believe your right, I dont think she even noticed much when he left. I don't think she wants to live like that again. I'm feeling like Bent does on this, in that you did her a favor and didn't even know it. But not in a snarky way. I don't think anyone deserves to be in a relationship with a partner who makes you feel like you are pulling teeth. I don't think she deserved it. And I don't think you deserve it either. Your also right about him not noticing what he is doing. The next day he acts as if I never said anything and he is his usual friendly self. BUT, I of coarse, can't hold it in, and continue where I left off, eventually he cant run and opens up. Its like pulling teeth... ugh:mad: Sorry for the threadjack, everyone. Thanks for the convo, Mino.
bentnotbroken Posted April 22, 2009 Posted April 22, 2009 I wouldn't call it sticking her head in the sand either. I didn't stick mine in the sand. I would suspect that she developed a shield to protect herself from her feelings being ignored when she voiced a concern. After so long you began to feel like your opinions, your wants, your needs, your concerns don't matter to your partner. So you put up a shield to protect yourself from the ambivalence to you, I did. People outside looking in would believe that she ignored his needs or put up with an A. In actuality, she is doing what she needs to cope and survive her situation. It's funny though, I'll bet she loved him in the beginning too.
Reggie Posted April 22, 2009 Posted April 22, 2009 I wouldn't call it sticking her head in the sand either. I didn't stick mine in the sand. I would suspect that she developed a shield to protect herself from her feelings being ignored when she voiced a concern. After so long you began to feel like your opinions, your wants, your needs, your concerns don't matter to your partner. So you put up a shield to protect yourself from the ambivalence to you, I did. People outside looking in would believe that she ignored his needs or put up with an A. In actuality, she is doing what she needs to cope and survive her situation. It's funny though, I'll bet she loved him in the beginning too. This is true. Many cheaters are adverse to MC and ignore the BS's pleas to address issues in the marriage.
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