taylor Posted April 24, 2009 Posted April 24, 2009 Yeah' date=' and we (society) have bad names for that type of behavior too. Yes, they are called sociopaths because they go after what they want with no regard for anyone else and they feel no guilt. I witnessed a sociopath yesterday...a shopper in J.C Penney. She had the teenage cashier in tears because the cashier wouldn't give her a discount on an item that went off-sale that day. She stormed out of the store with her finger waving and the cuss words flying, her nose held high in the air with justification...trampled all over an innocent without an ounce of guilt. The thing is I doubt that shopper will ever feel any guilt over that and her chances of treating another cashier the same way I would say would be very likely. I have a friend whose friend got murdered over $7 in his pocket. Same type of sociopathic thinking....get what you want with no regard for another person and with no guilt. The 17 yo is in jail. Does he feel guilt? Who knows? Does he feel sorry? Maybe sorry he got caught, but who knows? When he gets out, will he have learned a lesson, and never do it again? Who knows. Most likely he will be a repeat offender. Different degrees of sociopathy..but all the same line of thinking.
NoIDidn't Posted April 25, 2009 Posted April 25, 2009 Yeah' date=' and we (society) have bad names for that type of behavior too. Yes, they are called sociopaths because they go after what they want with no regard for anyone else and they feel no guilt. I witnessed a sociopath yesterday...a shopper in J.C Penney. She had the teenage cashier in tears because the cashier wouldn't give her a discount on an item that went off-sale that day. She stormed out of the store with her finger waving and the cuss words flying, her nose held high in the air with justification...trampled all over an innocent without an ounce of guilt. The thing is I doubt that shopper will ever feel any guilt over that and her chances of treating another cashier the same way I would say would be very likely. I have a friend whose friend got murdered over $7 in his pocket. Same type of sociopathic thinking....get what you want with no regard for another person and with no guilt. The 17 yo is in jail. Does he feel guilt? Who knows? Does he feel sorry? Maybe sorry he got caught, but who knows? When he gets out, will he have learned a lesson, and never do it again? Who knows. Most likely he will be a repeat offender. Different degrees of sociopathy..but all the same line of thinking. I disagree. Criminals aren't necessarily sociopaths. And the woman being rude to the cashier, was just that, rude. Sociopaths don't tend to be rude. They are calculating. They need you to trust them so that they can do their dirt to you. Kind of like how people in affairs display sociopathic behavior to their spouses because they need to keep the spouse unsuspecting (note, I didn't call the cheater a sociopath). It would be easy if we could just label all bad behavior as sociopathy, but we can't. What you listed isn't representative of sociopathy. Just a criminal and a rude, insensitive shopper.
tami-chan Posted April 25, 2009 Posted April 25, 2009 The label SOCIOPATH has been thrown around quite often on this site, irresponsibly, I might add. While it is possible that some cheaters ARE sociopaths, I would venture to say, most are not. A person to be clinically diagnosed as a sociopath has to meet several criteria. Having said that, let me share this with you: Here are the relevant passages from Martha Stout, author of "The Sociopath Next Door": "What makes you decide that a person is or isn't a sociopath?" "Conceptually, for the purposes of the book," says Stout, "I'm talking about people who have exhibited symptoms such as extreme chronic deceitfulness, lack of remorse, lack of personal responsibility, and a general desire to control people and make them jump." Deceit, Stout says, is the central behavior of sociopathy: "More scientifically, the best I can offer is the rule of three. If someone lies to you once or twice, it could be a misunderstanding. If someone lies to you three times, then chances are you're dealing with a liar. And deceit is the central behavior of sociopathy." Based on that, my thought was, wow, maybe a cheater is a sociopath! But read on: "What I have found," Stout says, "and what breaks my heart, is that I'm hearing from good people who are afraid that they are sociopaths. They are feeling disconnected from people for a variety of reasons and are questioning their own dark sides. But if you're questioning your attachments to others and questioning your dark side,that is not a concern that a sociopath would have." Do sociopaths ever go to therapy? Stout says , "not unless they are ordered by the court. Sociopaths feel just fine about themselves." But a person who has the wisdom to compare his/her behavior with that of others and ask if anything is wrong, is not a sociopath. So perhaps he/she is simply a person who has a functioning conscience but is caught up in a habitual behavior from which he/she simply have not yet had any educational consequences, such as losing a husband or a job, or being ostracized, or feeling in deep emotional pain. So if consequences happen, and he/she is not a sociopath, he/she is going to feel it acutely, and it is not going to be pretty."
Reggie Posted April 25, 2009 Posted April 25, 2009 Based on the above, I was definitely dealing with a sociopath.
tami-chan Posted April 26, 2009 Posted April 26, 2009 The fact that OWs/OMs are here on LS asking, inquiring, making excuses, accepting responsibility, expressing remorse, being sorry for hurting anyone but not sorry for the affair,justifying, rationalinalizing etc.etc....show none are sociopaths. The fact also that BSs come here and tell us that their WSs expressed any one (or more) of those things above, show none are sociopaths. Sociopaths do not have a sense of right or wrong...or need for justification or rationalization. They do what they do because they believe they can, regardless of anyone's feelings. They do not resort to deceit because they are afraid to hurt you, they resort to deceit because they can and it is a means to getting what they want. Here's the caveat: Some sociopaths are cheaters and some cheaters ARE sociopaths.
Reggie Posted April 26, 2009 Posted April 26, 2009 I agee, TC, not all cheaters are sociopaths. But, many do not express remorse and continue to cheat and justify. You really have to watch their actions, not just their words, as expressions of remorse are often manipulations, something sociopaths are very good at. In the case of serial cheaters, folks that continue despite the harm they have seen cuased inthe past, i think many are sociopaths. manyof the Ws's I've seen have a history of past cheating and continue it. If someone just does whatever he or she wants and does not care about the hurt caused, they fit thesociopathic description, IMO. And, look at how those caught continue to lie about details, thus inflicting further damage. It's blatant consciencelessness.
NoIDidn't Posted April 26, 2009 Posted April 26, 2009 Here's the caveat: Some sociopaths are cheaters and some cheaters ARE sociopaths. Exactly! That's also goes for the examples that taylor gave. Some people are just rude, doesn't make them sociopaths.
bentnotbroken Posted April 26, 2009 Posted April 26, 2009 Exactly! That's also goes for the examples that taylor gave. Some people are just rude, doesn't make them sociopaths. And ignorant, don't forget ignorant:rolleyes:
NoIDidn't Posted April 26, 2009 Posted April 26, 2009 And ignorant, don't forget ignorant:rolleyes: LOL. Let's not forget ignorant!
tami-chan Posted April 26, 2009 Posted April 26, 2009 Sorry, I didn't get it...are you saying some people in affairs are ignorant? or that some people are sociopaths and ignorant? Ignorant of what? I don't get the comment...
taylor Posted April 28, 2009 Posted April 28, 2009 Yeah, and we (society) have bad names for that type of behavior too. Criminals aren't necessarily sociopaths. And the woman being rude to the cashier, was just that, rude. It would be easy if we could just label all bad behavior as sociopathy, but we can't. What you listed isn't representative of sociopathy. Just a criminal and a rude, insensitive shopper. That's right. It would be easy to label all bad behavior as sociopathy...but to do so would be wrong. Just like labeling all cheaters as sociopaths would be wrong. And that is the point I was trying to make with my tongue-in-cheek examples of the criminal and the rude shopper. My response was to Reggie's implication that cheaters are sociopaths because they go after what they want with no regard for anyone else and they feel no guilt. Applying that "definition" to sociopath doesn't work with all behavior...as in the case with the criminal or the shopper. Nor does it "work" with all cheaters. Many cheaters do feel guilt during and after affairs. And many do think about how their cheating might affect others if the cheating is discovered. IMO, the rude woman shopper is more of a sociopath than the cheater, based on Reggie's definition. She felt no guilt during or after the episode...actually felt pretty proud of herself. And it appeared she enjoyed seeing the young cashier cry, like she was glad someone was "paying" for her inability to take advantage of a sale. I would venture to guess most cheaters do feel some guilt, don't ever feel proud, and don't enjoy seeing their spouses cry. I agree with Tami-Chan...the word "sociopath" gets thrown around on this forum way too much. Cheaters may be cheaters, but they aren't sociopaths. Thanks for helping me prove a point.
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