Responsibility, Blame, and Outcomes

[AGreatWife]

As a BW, and after hearing every excuse, reason, and rationale, that an OW might give for getting involved with a married man, I think the one that fascinates me most is the statement: "I am not responsible for any pain that his wife may feel -- he is."

 

As long as any woman is involved with a married man, at the very least, she is an accomplice to the BW's pain. Period. There are no "innocents" between two people involved in an affair (unless the OW is unaware the man is married). To think otherwise, in any way, shape, or form is nothing but pure denial -- the inability to take full responsibility for her actions. It is no different than witnessing abuse or theft of another, and choosing to say, "so what", and join in.

 

Adultery is a form of Emotional Abuse -- whether the wife finds out about the affair, or not. Is embezzlement not a crime as long as the victim never finds out he/she has been robbed? Is a lie not a lie, as long as no one discovers its not the truth.

 

Adultery is a form of Theft -- it is knowingly and willingly stealing a MM's time, attention, and affection (among other valuable intangibles) from another woman -- and their children, if they have a family. Because it was his choice to give away what he promised belonged only to his wife, does not dismiss the fact that the OW is accepting it (receiving stolen intangibles), making her a direct participant her pain and loss.

 

If this were not true, OW would not (and would have no right to) complain about the pain and suffering the BW is causing her, when the MM doesn't fulfill his promises/agreement to her, to be with and to do things with his wife and family, or any other promise he makes to the OW and doesn't keep because of marital obligations (or personal choice -- yes, married me do lie to the OW to be with his wife, children, etc....). And yes, he is probably still having sex with her if he lives at home (or not), and yes, most likely, he won't leave her for you... ad nauseam (but I digress).

 

Back to responsibility for pain... If the BW finds out about the affair, and informs the OW's spouse, is the BW in no way responsible for any pain the Ow's spouse may inflict upon her for cheating? No. Its called "justifiable disclosure" -- and it does come with the potential to cause pain or loss for the OW. [keyword: justifiable]. I recall a post here where an OW was appalled that the BW, albeit months after the affair ended, told the OW's spouse what his wife had done with her husband. The OW expressing in her rant, all the pain and suffering she was now "having" to endure -- and how dare she do such a thing, and how dare her former MM "not prevent" his wife from outing her... etc. (something to that effect).

 

Discovered or not, OW and MM are both responsible for any loss, pain and suffering the BW may experience. The simple fact that an OW exists, causes her pain. So, OWs, I say... "accuso in vos quoque".

 

I will state in advance that the above is my opinion, this will save anyone from stating the obvious in their response, on that matter.

 

I realize the need for an OW to hold herself harmless in her part of whatever pain or suffering the MM's BW may experience -- it's a buzz kill. I can see the need for an OW to state emphatically, that she is not a bad person for helping a man betray his wife -- that would be too hard to admit, and is also a buzz kill. Some affairs even end up in the death or murder of someone... but, that's a buzz kill too (and the most unpleasant and Taboo of all potential outcomes to talk about). No worries... that only happens to "other" people.

 

Fortunately, most affairs (as do "highs") eventually wear off, and most often, no one dies from one. It's unfortuante however, how people's behavior, abilities, and minds, just like affairs, can be so unpredictable. Now THAT'S a buzz kill.

 

Woman's Affair Ends in Murder - Live at 5

[jj33]

Im sorry you have been hurt. The person to be angry with is your spouse. He is the one who was married to you. He is the one who made a vow to be faithful to you.

 

Its true if noone was willing to have an affair with him, he couldnt have cheated on you. But if he werent open for business, noone could have dragged him into an affair.

 

The number of women who enter affairs in a predatory manner is few and far between no matter what your lying cheating husband may tell you.

 

Ultimately your anger is misdirected.

[carhill]

Hi and welcome. You might try posting your story in the Infidelity forum. You'll get better support there, IMO.

 

My sympathies.

[White Flower]

Great post and quote. True, no person is perfect nor any marriage.

 

However, I disagree about putting blame on the OW. If your H had a thing for a blow up doll would you be blaming the blow up doll? My exH had an affair with the stock market. Do I get angry at the stock market for loss of time, money, and affection? His affair with the stock market took my security away; my very retirement. Yet, I cannot blame the stock market. It was all his doing.

[AGreatWife]

Im sorry you have been hurt. The person to be angry with is your spouse. He is the one who was married to you. He is the one who made a vow to be faithful to you.

 

Its true if noone was willing to have an affair with him, he couldnt have cheated on you. But if he werent open for business, noone could have dragged him into an affair.

 

The number of women who enter affairs in a predatory manner is few and far between no matter what your lying cheating husband may tell you.

 

Ultimately your anger is misdirected.

 

Hi JJ,

 

So you agree that if women (who know in advance that a man is married -- which are the OWs I was writing about) were not willing to have affairs with married men, men couldn't have affairs. Good. That was my point.

 

I don't think I said or even implied that my husband was "dragged" into an affair -- you drew that conclusion on your own. I think my opinion was pretty clear that I hold both of them responsible -- if not, I will say so now, I hold them both responsible, they were two consenting adults both knowing he was married (and she was married as well). So, in that context, my anger isn't misdirected it's equally directed. Just happens that the focus of my post was on OWs who try and minimize or completely exonerate themselves of any responsibility (directly or indirectly) for a BW's "pain".

 

About the number of women who are initiators of affairs with MM... (though you didn't cite any numbers) the statistics have changed, and continues to rise in correlation with the rise in women becoming equals in the work force. And, in my situation, it actually was the OW who initiated the affair (and a co-worker). I know this not only by what my husband told me, but also by statements she made in her emails, trying to comvince him they were "meant to be together", and how "happy she would make him, if only he would let her prove it to him"... etc. She tried unsuccessfully for months to start an affair with him, before he chose to accept. And, it was short lived, and EA, and unconsimated. This I also know, by my husband's statements to me and proven by the OWs emails, and a hand writen letter to him, professing her frustration with his not sleeping with her -- go figure.

 

Thanks for responding, JJ.

[jj33]

Well that is unfortunate that she was that kind of person. If you read the boards there are a few young naive people on here now, but for the most part women dont run around trying to steal other people's husbands. The husband's go willingly.

[AGreatWife]

Hi and welcome. You might try posting your story in the Infidelity forum. You'll get better support there, IMO.

 

My sympathies.

 

Hi carhill,

 

Thanks for the sympathy, but its not necessary. I'm not looking for support either. I'm pretty much past that part. Just sharing some thoughts and chose this forum by intention since it was about OW.

 

Thanks for responding, too.

[AGreatWife]

Great post and quote. True, no person is perfect nor any marriage.

 

However, I disagree about putting blame on the OW. If your H had a thing for a blow up doll would you be blaming the blow up doll? My exH had an affair with the stock market. Do I get angry at the stock market for loss of time, money, and affection? His affair with the stock market took my security away; my very retirement. Yet, I cannot blame the stock market. It was all his doing.

 

Hi WF,

 

I think, but can't say for sure, if my H had a thing for a blowup doll, I would just stick a pin in her, and that would the end of that...LOL!

 

On the stock market analogy... I'm not sure how that applies to two live people agreeing to do something together, that they know would, and unnecessarily so, hurt another.

 

Maybe if there were more attractive balloon dolls available, there would be fewer affairs.

 

Thanks for responding! : )

[carhill]

No worries. Glad to hear you've found some healthy resolution. Generally, on LS (presuming you're new and not a lurker/prior member), the OM/OW forum is for support and contact between/for that side of the infidelity equation. The effects on the BS and their venting of anger and hurt are generally played out and supported in the Infidelity forum. There is sometimes spillage between but there's kind of an agreement to keep the separation civil.

 

Topically, I think all parties to relationships share responsibility for their role. I've been in nearly all the positions and IMO taking responsibility is a clear pathway to health. Is that painful? IME, yeah, it is. Growth sometimes is painful.

[desertmoon]

Many great(or maybe not so great, but definitely not "bottom-feeders") men and women were adulterous-Gandhi, Franklin Roosevelt, John Kennedy, Bill Clinton, Barbara Walters, Jackie O....

 

I am not sure what is the point of saying OMs/OWs spouses are bottom-feeders and not so bright....

[TaraMaiden]

(desertmoon, I would be grateful for a link giving me evidence of Mohandras Gandhi's infidelity.

For my own interest.... Thank you....)

 

 

_/l\_

[desertmoon]

(desertmoon, I would be grateful for a link giving me evidence of Mohandras Gandhi's infidelity.

For my own interest.... Thank you....)

 

It's Mohandas, not Mohandras, actually....Google: Gandhi Adultery

[TaraMaiden]

I thought so.

The articles are written by somebody who is currently awaiting trial on defamation of character. This person is from pakistan.

Unfortunately, the writings are still being circulated.

it is an attempt to discredit Gandhi, and the sources are invalidated.

 

 

I know someone very closely, who spent much time with gandhi-Ji.... he tells me this is all complete fabrication.

This is why I asked for the links.....

 

The misspelling of his name was my typographical error. I apologise.

 

_/l\_

[AGreatWife]

No worries. Glad to hear you've found some healthy resolution. Generally, on LS (presuming you're new and not a lurker/prior member), the OM/OW forum is for support and contact between/for that side of the infidelity equation. The effects on the BS and their venting of anger and hurt are generally played out and supported in the Infidelity forum. There is sometimes spillage between but there's kind of an agreement to keep the separation civil.

 

Topically, I think all parties to relationships share responsibility for their role. I've been in nearly all the positions and IMO taking responsibility is a clear pathway to health. Is that painful? IME, yeah, it is. Growth sometimes is painful.

 

Thanks carhill,

 

I was hoping no one would tell me that I was invading the club house... but I'm not surprised. I am new, and find it unfortunate that there are two understood/agreed upon camps in the matter of infidelity, anywhere -- an "us" and "them" mentality serves no one. Is it not that kind of thinking that starts wars (and affairs), prevents peace talks, discourages awareness and understanding, and even nourishes the ability to cause harm? Yikes.

 

As a BW, its unfortunate that my opinions or views of OW would be considered an intrusion here of sorts, or a "threat" to someone's privacy or sense of safety in their speaking out about being an OW/OM. Maybe things spill over between the two boards because they should? Secrecy and exclusion, and exclusivity, are the foundation of affairs. I think all parties should come to the table together... jmho. What do I learn about Affairs and/or infidelity in general as a BW, if all I am allowed (or preferred) to do, is lurk? Or am I not supposed to learn anything? Sounds like an affair is going on in here... How is it that I wasn't very scary to the OW when she was sneaking around with my husband in "real life", but I'm a threat somehow on a discussion board??

 

At any rate, thank you for letting me know of the rules on LS... However, I welcome any OW or OM to jump into any post I may make, regardless of where its presented. I came here to talk about all sides of the triangle with all sides of the triangle. I feel sure (thought) there would be others who dialogue inclusively, who want to accomplish more than venting of anger and hurt, all parties being present. (?)

 

Where is the board for BW/Hs and OPs to talk together about affairs? I will go there...

 

Thanks for responding. : )

[jj33]

Hi JJ,

 

So you agree that if women (who know in advance that a man is married -- which are the OWs I was writing about) were not willing to have affairs with married men, men couldn't have affairs. Good. That was my point.

.

 

I agree with respect to affairs but as I say if a man wants to be unfaithful he will. There are professional women who can fill the gap where the typical OW wont.

 

It sounds like the OW in your situation was unusual but if your husband had acted with real integrity he would not have gotten involved.

[carhill]

I've got no irons in the LS fire but am merely passing along the dynamic I learned as a new member.

 

The Infidelity sub-forum is here:

 

http://www.loveshack.org/forums/f35/

 

Generally, my experience has been that BS's tend to re-live the hurt of their own situations when reading the OM/OW forum and will often attack posters who are trying to resolve their own situations in a healthy manner. I think the emotions are valid but projecting them onto unknown third parties is counter-productive to the goal of these forums.

 

That said, reading both forums has helped me immensely in understanding my roles and responsibilities in the past and present and has helped me find a healthy resolution. The sense of abandonment is particularly poignant and provided a strong mirror to examine myself with.

 

Best wishes and looking forward to more insightful postings

[Trialbyfire]

OP, I don't know what your situation is beyond what you've posted in this thread.

 

As an ex-BW, the easiest way to healing is to get out of the dysfunctional dynamic of the drama triangle. When trust and respect is lost in a marriage, it's not worth hanging on. Get out.

 

Try not to dwell on the OW. She's not worth the wasted time or emotion. Anyone who would get between a married couple has major personal issues, in that they have to be incredibly selfish and morally bankrupt.

[AGreatWife]

I agree with respect to affairs but as I say if a man wants to be unfaithful he will. There are professional women who can fill the gap where the typical OW wont.

 

It sounds like the OW in your situation was unusual but if your husband had acted with real integrity he would not have gotten involved.

 

Well, I imagine there are some men who aren't unfaithful, even if they want to be. And, I wouldn't promote prostitution as an alternative, but that's just me. And yes, true, had my husband's level of integrity been at it's best, he would not have gotten involved... nor would she have pursued him, had hers--which again, was the point of my post. They were both a train wreck waiting to happen!

 

Thanks JJ!

[desertmoon]

I thought so.

The articles are written by somebody who is currently awaiting trial on defamation of character. This person is from pakistan.

Unfortunately, the writings are still being circulated.

it is an attempt to discredit Gandhi, and the sources are invalidated.

 

 

I know someone very closely, who spent much time with gandhi-Ji.... he tells me this is all complete fabrication.

This is why I asked for the links.....

 

The misspelling of his name was my typographical error. I apologise.

 

_/l\_

 

 

 

I am not an expert on Gandhi's life, however, the author(have not read any of his work)who you say is on trial, does not mean he is guilty. I think at the very least, Gandhi had an emotional affair with Sarla Devi, I could be wrong.

 

Sorry, OP for TJ-ing.

[AGreatWife]

OP, I don't know what your situation is beyond what you've posted in this thread.

 

As an ex-BW, the easiest way to healing is to get out of the dysfunctional dynamic of the drama triangle. When trust and respect is lost in a marriage, it's not worth hanging on. Get out.

 

Try not to dwell on the OW. She's not worth the wasted time or emotion. Anyone who would get between a married couple has major personal issues, in that they have to be incredibly selfish and morally bankrupt.

 

Hi TBF,

 

I'm a BW, not an ex-BW, my husband and I chose to work through and past his affair. And, his OW has apparently done the same with her spouse. While an affair is a horrific thing to experience, it isn't a deal breaker for everyone. I guess I am one, who in the aftermath of an explosion, seeks out the cause of it, so it won't (or hopefully won't) happen again -- which requires looking at and understanding all sides. Dwelling, is subjective. At what point does seeking to be informed become dysfunctional? And, dysfunctional is subjective as well. I imagine the defining point of either one, are different for everyone.

 

I believe there is merit in learning from all sides and hearing all points of view. Its only dramatic if one chooses for it to be. Trust can be rebuilt, in my opinion, under the right curcumstances -- but that's just my view, as well. I can appreciate and I respect whatever decision a BP or couple chooses in regard to staying in their marriage or not, during or after an affair.

[Trialbyfire]

Hi TBF,

 

I'm a BW, not an ex-BW, my husband and I chose to work through and past his affair. And, his OW has apparently done the same with her spouse. While an affair is a horrific thing to experience, it isn't a deal breaker for everyone. I guess I am one, who in the aftermath of an explosion, seeks out the cause of it, so it won't (or hopefully won't) happen again -- which requires looking at and understanding all sides. Dwelling, is subjective. At what point does seeking to be informed become dysfunctional? And, dysfunctional is subjective as well. I imagine the defining point of either one, are different for everyone.

 

I believe there is merit in learning from all sides and hearing all points of view. Its only dramatic if one chooses for it to be. Trust can be rebuilt, in my opinion, under the right curcumstances -- but that's just my view, as well. I can appreciate and I respect whatever decision a BP or couple chooses in regard to staying in their marriage or not, during or after an affair.

I'm the ex-BW who divorced her cheater and have found happiness with someone worthwhile, someone who has the same morality level as I do. I trust and respect him implicitly.

[bentnotbroken]

AGW, I respect any BS who has the strength to plod through the crap and come out on the other side, stronger and more trusting than ever. Everything is subjective and for you what works for your R is all that matters.

[datura_noir]

I agree, it can be worked out...But,BOTH people in the marriage have to be up for the work that is required. The OW/OM is usually the fall guy in the whole situation. As in my particular case, just two people who knew each other for years, both having turning points in life, and a spouse (me) who was coming into his/her own thing....the timing was perfect.

 

But we pulled ourselves back to where we were meant to be.

 

My husband admitted to telling this woman that he was 'falling in love' with her-they both exchanged those words....yet, after it was all said and done, he saw that the reality of the whole thing was a farce.....he was leading a double life and lying to people he cared for and who trusted him.

 

What a ride!!:laugh:

 

I commend you for being able to meet face to face and tell what was on your mind.

[TaraMaiden]

desertmoon, this is my final word on the topic because of course, you are absolutely right on two counts. But I cannot pm you as I have not been on the forum an adequate time, or maybe made enough posts.... I am not sure.

Maybe we can discuss this another time in another place.

I apologise for diverting the main discussion taking place.....

[fooled once]

The number of women who enter affairs in a predatory manner is few and far between no matter what your lying cheating husband may tell you.

 

What a load of crap, IMHO

 

Look at this board alone. Can you really tell me that each OW didn't know the man was married?

 

BS