Taramere Posted April 19, 2009 Posted April 19, 2009 I didn't say they have to jump straight into the sack. But if there isn't sex by date four, it is my prerogative to walk away. It's not an ironclad rule, and I respect that you wouldn't be compatible with me for that reason. It isn't game-playing, and I'm not a drooling moron, and I'm not doing anything that deserves to be "dealt with firmly." In any case, if I've stopped dating them, there is nothing to deal with firmly. It's over. The "drooling moron" is a reference to women as they're portrayed by many posters on a PUA site which I've read now and again. I know that a lot of men who post on here also post on there, and it's interesting to see some of the background to a lot of posts here. You are making it sound like I'm throwing my arms up impatiently and "ditching" a woman who doesn't put out after date two. What I believe is that if things have not escalated to some sort of a sexual encounter by the fourth date, depending on how interested I actually think she is (case-by-case), I will make a decision whether to continue or not. This is my principle, and I have had great experience with wonderful women by sticking to it. I think you've interpreted the whole of my post as having been aimed at you on the basis that I quoted from you. It's not. What you describe seems fine...essentially you're assessing whether there's chemistry there. If there isn't, you'll stop dating the person. I'm talking about the man who has a sense of entitlement about getting laid very early on and becomes derogatory about a woman if she doesn't co-operate. The person who becomes obsessed with PUA tactics. Who believes that a woman's "no" is a power play that should be managed in some punitive way (eg the cold treatment, "nexting" letting her know that he thinks she has an inflated sense of self worth or whatever else). I'm talking about some of the paranoia about women that's promoted on PUA sites. This notion that straight after she's called a halt on making out with him, a man's date is scooting off round to the home of some f*ck buddy to have mind-blowing sex. The extent to which some of those PUAs encourage other men to have that level of insecure thinking astonishes me. For example... In the vast majority of cases a man goes on a date with a woman because he wants to have sex with her. If he sees that it's not going to happen, why should he stick around and "settle" for her friendship while she goes off and has sex with other guys? I'm sure that in the vast majority of cases, when a woman accepts a date she's interested in seeing whether any chemistry develops. And if it does, it might be a build up over the course of a few dates. Of course if she's making it clear that she's not interested romantically, he shouldn't be sticking around and settling for friendship when he wants more. On the other hand, assuming that she's not interested because she hasn't agreed to have sex after two or three dates doesn't mean there isn't potential. If there's flirtation, touching and kissing, then those are positive signs. They're not getting much of a mention here (though I acknowledge Sam talked more about them in his last post). That's what I have the issue with. Sure after a couple of dates where there's been no evidence of romantic interest from the other person, then walking away might be the best option. But not having full blown sex at an early stage isn't evidence of lack of romantic interest. The OP seems to be indicating that it is, and I think that's very misleading.
MissConduct Posted April 19, 2009 Posted April 19, 2009 I have had women tell me that " if we have sex I'll fall in-love" so I will agree that, with a women, sex is a very big part in the bonding process. That's ridiculous!! Clearly those women who told you that have no clue what falling in love means. They probably meant "I will get emotionally attached". That's more realistic, if anything.
Yamaha Posted April 19, 2009 Posted April 19, 2009 So, how are the wedding plans proceeding? FWIW, I've seen this happen which is why I'm fascinated by it. Sometimes I wish I could do self brain surgery The funny thing is, I am the one taking my time in the relationship. All of our conversations are/have been sexual and I know very little about her after 2 months so I am now asking her out on dates to find out if I like her more than a sexual being. She is starting to open up and I think the future is positive.
samspade Posted April 19, 2009 Posted April 19, 2009 I think you've interpreted the whole of my post as having been aimed at you on the basis that I quoted from you. It's not. What you describe seems fine...essentially you're assessing whether there's chemistry there. If there isn't, you'll stop dating the person. I guess I did misinterpret.
Peaceandlove Posted April 19, 2009 Posted April 19, 2009 Not all women will put themselves in this position. No offense to the poster who posted "the case in point" but healthy women who do not have self esteem issues will not be so quick to jump into bed. But that doesn't mean they aren't interested. Anything that starts with "no offence" is often offensive. I'm not cross at the fact that you insinuate that I'm not healthy and might have self esteem-issues since you do not know me- what strikes me is the air of self-righteousness with which you are stating this. How about sexual spontaneity, what happens the next morning, whether the guy was good in the sack..all variables that factor in the so-called Golden rule
somedude81 Posted April 19, 2009 Posted April 19, 2009 On the other hand, assuming that she's not interested because she hasn't agreed to have sex after two or three dates doesn't mean there isn't potential. If there's flirtation, touching and kissing, then those are positive signs. They're not getting much of a mention here (though I acknowledge Sam talked more about them in his last post). That's what I have the issue with. Sure after a couple of dates where there's been no evidence of romantic interest from the other person, then walking away might be the best option. But not having full blown sex at an early stage isn't evidence of lack of romantic interest. The OP seems to be indicating that it is, and I think that's very misleading. I agree with you there if there is flirtation, touching and kissing then it's fine no need to drop her right away. But there is also the potential of getting stuck at that stage. At some point sex has to happen. It all depends on the peoples experience level and other stuff. In all honesty this whole thread seems backward to me. Isn't the whole point of getting a girl attached to you is to have sex with her? Having sex with her then hoping she gets attached doesn't make any sense.
MN randomguy Posted April 19, 2009 Posted April 19, 2009 Why is it that when you have sex with a guy quite early on and then he brushes you off that you can't stop thinking about him? There you go. Case in point. Don't have sex with her ASAP, and she won't care about you. OP mentioned control. You're less likely to get hurt if you have all of the power in a relationship. Is it using someone? of course! is that wrong? those of you who say it is are either putting your morals onto someone else or acknowledging that there is absolute right and wrong. Not all women will put themselves in this position. No offense to the poster who posted "the case in point" but healthy women who do not have self esteem issues will not be so quick to jump into bed. But that doesn't mean they aren't interested. I don't think this is about a healthy relationship. This is about a frustrated guy who's been stepped on and figuring out an effective way to cope.
bac Posted April 19, 2009 Posted April 19, 2009 It's not the act of sex but about not treating her as a priority. If your love is difficult for her to get she will want it more. If you have sex and then ignore her she will want you more. What if she is not so stupied as the man expects her to be? I mean that she understands that he is just an player with no feelings for anyone and empty inside.
Girlygirl1977 Posted April 19, 2009 Posted April 19, 2009 Unfortunately based on limited experience and what I hear from friends, the OP's points have some credibility. He probably should work on presentation style though. I haven't had many partners, but a recent one did a good number on me sexually. I still think about it periodically. I am with someone who is overall better for me but moved into that soon after and am very happy. I realized it more after we broke up than during the relationship. Still, I don't sleep with guys till about a month. With the one I'm talking about here - that was one month/10 dates so I have no regrets nor do I think he was trying to have sex with me quickly. I do realize that after the sex I did become more emotionally attached and didn't realize it so much till it was over (was 3 months so not that long).
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