On "Intent"

[taylor]

It all depends on what you deem the "start" of an emotional affair (I think we've covered the drunken ONS pretty thoroughly here). Some people defined it as being an affair the minute one began to feel love or feelings for the other person. I disagree, I think the affair begins when secrecy is involved.

 

So, one can have an error in judgement in allowing someone to get close enough to you to fall in love (a mistake), without intending to hurt anyone.

 

Intent shows up when the secrecy starts, because then they are hiding that interaction because they know it would hurt the spouse.

 

I like what you say here, Tired03.

 

I spent many months analyzing my EA, mulling over much of what you say here.

 

I believe my EA started the minute I started having feelings for another man that were so strong that I WANTED him to come closer. I knew I was getting in too deep when I didn't stop him from coming closer. I gave him green lights rather than the usual red lights like I normally would with any man who made any kind of advance. I knew I was getting in too deep when everything he said and did affected me, good or bad.

 

There wasn't alot of secrecy involved in my affair. My affair partner and I were coworkers so we had an "excuse" to be together..to interact..to laugh, to tease, to take breaks together.

 

I was already very much involved when the relationship turned VERBALLY sexual...innuendos, body language, turn ons, flirtations. This, of course, I did not share with my husband. In fact, I wrote most of it off as fun and meaningless. No need to stir the pot. I had it all under control.

 

And then the OM expressed feelings and I expressed feelings back. And that's when I realized what I was truly dealing with and that if it was to continue, it would require secrecy. The relationship ended 9 days later. Guilt set in for both of us.

 

But the affair actually started way before the need for secrecy came front and center. It started when my heart started to skip a beat at the sight of him.

[jwi71]

I guess I have seen it with friends of mine in the past, and Owl has alluded to it with his statement about risk - they didn't realize that they had feelings for someone until it was at the point when they were already in an emotional affair (at which point, a variety of things happened - some stayed, some confessed, some broke up etc).

 

See, at that point I'm hard pressed to say "they made a choice to get there" - because the dangers of emotional affairs and the warning signs have only recently gotten press - despite how much we talk about it on LS.

 

This is what I'm struggling with Because I don't believe them to be bad people, nor do I believe that they intentionally strayed outside the marriage, nor even knew that the path that they were on would take them there.

 

This was your post 42 OP. It was in response to my asking YOU when A's happened that were UNINTENDED.

 

You can read what you wrote and read my first "real" post to you. Like I said then and have been all along...ALL A's have an INTENT. They may NOT begin with that but they all contain that INTENT to HIDE. And like yourself, it is where I too believe the A to begin.

 

Some people defined it as being an affair the minute one began to feel love or feelings for the other person. I disagree, I think the affair begins when secrecy is involved.

I'm glad you finally made the connection as to when A's start and that they involve secrecy. Now...how does one manage to maintain secrecy in an A without INTENT? Did you mistakenly hide it OP? Did you accidentally hide it? OR did you INTEND to hide it?

 

And thusly ALL A's have INTENT (the possible exception being a drunken ONS).

 

Clear enough?

[jwi71]

Of course when people drink to excess, they become less discerning of partners and because their sexual inhibitions are shed, they are more likely to have sex with an otherwise undesireable partner than they normally would.

 

But drinking to excess does not erase your memory. It doesn't make you forget that you are married. It doesn't make the drunk incapable of realizing he is committing adultery by having sex.

 

He's drunk. He didn't have a lobotomy or fall on his head and forget that he was married. Surely he would be coherent enough to know that the woman he was having sex with certainly was not his wife.

 

I actually disagree with this. In my younger wilder days...I have been witnessed doing and saying many things my friends STILL talk about.

I have NO memory of them save the often "Do you remember when...".

 

And I still don't see why they find it SO funny. Even after 1000 times...sheesh.

 

 

 

 

 

I don't think too many BS whose spouses had drunken ONS's are smirking right now, ya think?

 

NO. But of all they ways in which an A can come about...a drunken ONS is the LEAST offensive in MY book and necessarily the easiest to overcome.

 

But that's me.

 

No, alcohol does not MAKE anyone do anything. People CHOOSE to do dumb things while under the influence. They feel more comfortable doing things with alcohol in them...like dance..like tell someone they love them..like get naked and run down the middle of the street.

 

Oh no...tell me you didn't...NO...wait...too bad that didn't happen recently so it could be on youtube under the caption "drunk naked LS chick running down the street".

 

But tell me this, if you were as drunk as the scenario you illustrate above, and someone gave you a gun, told you it was loaded, and told you to put it to your head and pull it, WOULD YOU? Would you know better than to do that..no matter how drunk you were? Would you know better than to sleep with someone not your wife?

 

Thats just it Taylor...drinking DOES have that effect on some people. Just because YOU don't think doesn't make it so...especially when the headlines are full of stupid drunks doing stupid things.

 

We will just disagree...you don't think or believe that alcohol is THAT bad...it is.

 

 

Again, would alcohol ALLOW you to kill yourself is someone handed you a loaded gone and told you to pull the trigger?

 

No. However just because I WON'T doesn't mean that it another WOULDN'T. Thats what you don't understand. Stop making this about YOU and ME...I wont, you won't but OTHERS WILL.

[Mr. Lucky]

There wasn't alot of secrecy involved in my affair.

But the affair actually started way before the need for secrecy came front and center. It started when my heart started to skip a beat at the sight of him.

Again Taylor, this is where it seems to me that you're practicing revisionist history. Early on, when your "heart started to skip a beat at the sight of him", you went straight home and told your H that "I work with Joe and I'm all aflutter at just the thought of him" ???

 

Because if you didn't or if you didn't establish firm boundaries as to your interactions with Joe, your "INTENT" was clearly stated from that point on...

 

Mr. Lucky

[taylor]

This was your post 42 OP. It was in response to my asking YOU when A's happened that were UNINTENDED.

 

You can read what you wrote and read my first "real" post to you. Like I said then and have been all along...ALL A's have an INTENT. They may NOT begin with that but they all contain that INTENT to HIDE. And like yourself, it is where I too believe the A to begin.

 

You believe affairs begin when the cheater starts to hide stuff. Spoken like a BS. You think the affair starts when you start feeling betrayed.

 

However, I disagree. Affairs start the minute a wayward starts to feel "uncomfortable" about what they are feeling or doing with another person, but choose not to stop it...not when they choose to hide what they are doing from a spouse. The only time a wayward "needs" to hide the affair is if the BS becomes suspicious or would become suspicious. By that time, the affair is already in full swing.

 

I made brownies for the OM's birthday right in front of my husband. I knew I had some feelings for the OM then and probably shouldn't have been making him brownies. But I did it anyways and I didn't hide it.

 

I'm glad you finally made the connection as to when A's start and that they involve secrecy. Now...how does one manage to maintain secrecy in an A without INTENT? Did you mistakenly hide it OP? Did you accidentally hide it? OR did you INTEND to hide it?

 

In my case I didn't intentionally hide anything...for 7 months I hid nothing. No one asked how I felt about the OM. It just never came up in conversation. The relationship was never discussed....feelings, interactions...nothing. It was understood by all that we were "just friends" just like all the other coworkers.

 

And thusly ALL A's have INTENT (the possible exception being a drunken ONS).

 

You will never convince me that a drunken person who removes his clothes in order to put his penis in some woman didn't do so WITHOUT INTENT and without full knowledge that he was committing adultery by doing so.

[taylor]

I actually disagree with this. In my younger wilder days...I have been witnessed doing and saying many things my friends STILL talk about.I have NO memory of them save the often "Do you remember when...".And I still don't see why they find it SO funny. Even after 1000 times...sheesh.

 

Your friends sound like they lead boring existences if they are still amused by things that happened years ago and after the story has been told 1000 times.

 

Are you trying to tell me in a round about way that you would not remember committing adultery if you got drunk?

 

Let me ask Snowflower...does your husband remember committing adultery with his ONS or was it all just a blur? Was it something his friends had to tell him he did because he didn't remember doing it?

 

 

 

 

a drunken ONS is the LEAST offensive in MY book and necessarily the easiest to overcome.

 

Well, not in my book. I think it's disgusting. I couldn't block out the images of my husband slobbering all over a slutty woman in a drunken stupor and reeking of alcohol while he climaxed in her and then passed out in a state of excessive intoxication, waking up wondering who the heck she was, where he was, and what he did.

 

My respect for him would plummet to ground zero. And I doubt I could ever let him put his penis inside me again after he chose to put it in some skanky woman willing to have a ONS with some drunk (my husband).

 

If he's going to throw the marriage away, at least let it be with someone who meant something to him. It would make more sense to me. It would not be so trashy to me. To throw it away in a senseless, disgusting drunken ONS tells me he didn't think much of the marriage in the first place. I would think, "He risked our marriage FOR THIS. THIS was worth losing our marriage over?"

 

 

But that's me.

 

 

 

Oh no...tell me you didn't...NO...wait...too bad that didn't happen recently so it could be on youtube under the caption "drunk naked LS chick running down the street".

 

Uh, too bad what didn't happen recently? Never ran down a street naked..only in YOUR dreams, I suppose.

 

 

 

Thats just it Taylor...drinking DOES have that effect on some people. Just because YOU don't think doesn't make it so...especially when the headlines are full of stupid drunks doing stupid things.

 

Didn't say it didn't ever happen. But I think many people who have ONS made easier by the use of alcohol STILL KNOW they are married and STILL KNOW they are committing adultery when they have sex. They might not remember they had sex the night before, but in the midst of having sex, they STILL KNOW they are married. They don't forget they are married just because they are drunk.

 

you don't think or believe that alcohol is THAT bad...it is.

 

I do believe alcohol is bad. My 42 year old girlfriend just died from liver failure due to excessive alcohol consumption for the past 11 years. But, you know what, she never cheated on her husband.

 

But I don't believe most people who commit adultery by having ONSs are so drunk that they completely forget they are married or are so drunk that they don't realize the woman they are f***ing is not their wife.

 

Wives or husbands who believe this are naive.

 

Stop making this about YOU and ME...I wont, you won't but OTHERS WILL.

 

I'm not making this about me. I have been drunk before and I have had sexual encounters while drunk. I realize alcohol sheds inhibitions but it does not incapacitate your mouth which is very capable of saying "NO" in between the French kisses and the fondling.

 

People who are drunk and get "too" sexually involved do so because they WANT TO and because they have a hard time controlling their sexual impulses. They don't do it because they forgot they were married or because they didn't realize they were committing adultery.

 

They know they are having sex with someone who is not their spouse. They choose not to control their desires.

 

"I had sex with her. The alcohol MADE me do it, honey." BOLONEY!!!

 

Again, I think the OM and I should have just got liquored up and did the deed. You people would have been so much more forgiving. Why the heck did I spend 7 months trying to fight the urge. I could have just told my husband the alcohol made me do it, honey.

[taylor]

Again Taylor, this is where it seems to me that you're practicing revisionist history. Early on, when your "heart started to skip a beat at the sight of him", you went straight home and told your H that "I work with Joe and I'm all aflutter at just the thought of him" ???

 

Because if you didn't or if you didn't establish firm boundaries as to your interactions with Joe, your "INTENT" was clearly stated from that point on...

 

Mr. Lucky

 

Tell me, Mr. Lucky, did you ever pass a beautiful woman on the street and in your mind think, "Wow. She's hot."

 

Did you tell your spouse immediately, because if you didn't, your INTENT was clearly stated.

 

What if that woman approached you and started talking to you. How would you feel talking to her? Would your palms get sweaty. Would your heart race a little? Would you stand a little taller or suck your gut in a little? Would you tell your wife about this? Why would you hide it?

[jwi71]

 

I believe my EA started the minute I started having feelings for another man that were so strong that I WANTED him to come closer. I knew I was getting in too deep when I didn't stop him from coming closer. I gave him green lights rather than the usual red lights like I normally would with any man who made any kind of advance. I knew I was getting in too deep when everything he said and did affected me, good or bad.

 

And of course you immediately told your H of this...full immediate disclosure of this right? You TOLD your H you WANTED the OM closer...that you gave green lights...because otherwise you LIED about the true nature of your "friend".

 

And so the EA begins with a LIE. The choice to NOT fully inform your H.

And if you did FULLY inform your H of how the OM made you feel...how was it an EA? It was in the open right - no secrecy involved then right?

 

See MY point?

 

But the affair actually started way before the need for secrecy came front and center. It started when my heart started to skip a beat at the sight of him.

 

I get your point.

And I think the two "starting points" are VERY close together. When you KNEW of your feelings (your EA start) you then failed to inform your H (a lie in my book...the EA starting point for me).

[NoIDidn't]

Well, not in my book. I think it's disgusting. I couldn't block out the images of my husband slobbering all over a slutty woman in a drunken stupor and reeking of alcohol while he climaxed in her and then passed out in a state of excessive intoxication, waking up wondering who the heck she was, where he was, and what he did.

 

My respect for him would plummet to ground zero. And I doubt I could ever let him put his penis inside me again after he chose to put it in some skanky woman willing to have a ONS with some drunk (my husband).

 

If he's going to throw the marriage away, at least let it be with someone who meant something to him. It would make more sense to me. It would not be so trashy to me. To throw it away in a senseless, disgusting drunken ONS tells me he didn't think much of the marriage in the first place. I would think, "He risked our marriage FOR THIS. THIS was worth losing our marriage over?"

 

 

But that's me.

 

 

.

 

Its not just you. Thanks for the image you painted, though. LOL.

 

I think getting drunk is its own lack of judgment and is not excusable. What if this drunk had gotten behind the wheel of a car instead of in bed with a sleazy person for a ONS? What if someone lost their live because of this drunk behind the wheel? "Well, Officer, I didn't intend to kill anybody?" How does THAT hold up in court? No different than if the person didn't think enough of themselves to not put themselves into a position to not know what is going on around them.

 

No respectable person would demonstrate this type of behavior. Whether they intended to so something or not.

 

It really is disgusting.

[jwi71]

You believe affairs begin when the cheater starts to hide stuff. Spoken like a BS. You think the affair starts when you start feeling betrayed.

 

The problem here is the BS doesn't KNOW he/she is betrayed UNTIL dday.

 

However, I disagree. Affairs start the minute a wayward starts to feel "uncomfortable" about what they are feeling or doing with another person, but choose not to stop it...not when they choose to hide what they are doing from a spouse. The only time a wayward "needs" to hide the affair is if the BS becomes suspicious or would become suspicious. By that time, the affair is already in full swing.

 

I made brownies for the OM's birthday right in front of my husband. I knew I had some feelings for the OM then and probably shouldn't have been making him brownies. But I did it anyways and I didn't hide it.

But you HID (lie by omission) your true feelings for the OM didn't you?

 

In my case I didn't intentionally hide anything...for 7 months I hid nothing. No one asked how I felt about the OM. It just never came up in conversation. The relationship was never discussed....feelings, interactions...nothing. It was understood by all that we were "just friends" just like all the other coworkers.

Ah...don't ask don't tell.

And if you HAD been asked...you would have fully disclosed?

 

You will never convince me that a drunken person who removes his clothes in order to put his penis in some woman didn't do so WITHOUT INTENT and without full knowledge that he was committing adultery by doing so.

Kinda like the drunk driver who kills right...they fully intended to kill right?

[jwi71]

Your friends sound like they lead boring existences if they are still amused by things that happened years ago and after the story has been told 1000 times.

 

Wow...my friends will be crushed that some anonymous internet cheater thinks they have boring lives.

 

Are you trying to tell me in a round about way that you would not remember committing adultery if you got drunk?

I stopped drinking MANY years ago...even before I met my stbxw.

And, sadly, I did drink so much I do NOT remember...and have woken up to walk the "walk of shame" in the frat house. Sigh.

 

 

Well, not in my book. I think it's disgusting. I couldn't block out the images of my husband slobbering all over a slutty woman in a drunken stupor and reeking of alcohol while he climaxed in her and then passed out in a state of excessive intoxication, waking up wondering who the heck she was, where he was, and what he did.

Good for you. I have different values and in such the type of infidelity MOST forgivable is a drunken ONS (which happens once in an otherwise good M).

 

My respect for him would plummet to ground zero. And I doubt I could ever let him put his penis inside me again after he chose to put it in some skanky woman willing to have a ONS with some drunk (my husband).

Don't blame you.

 

If he's going to throw the marriage away, at least let it be with someone who meant something to him. It would make more sense to me. It would not be so trashy to me. To throw it away in a senseless, disgusting drunken ONS tells me he didn't think much of the marriage in the first place. I would think, "He risked our marriage FOR THIS. THIS was worth losing our marriage over?"

I understand this sentiment. At least you cheated for someone who meant something to you...so easy to get over...I'm sure it comforts your H.

Uh, too bad what didn't happen recently? Never ran down a street naked..only in YOUR dreams, I suppose.

Well, I don't fantasize about anonymous internet cheaters. Unless you look like Halle Berry. Do you?

 

Didn't say it didn't ever happen. But I think many people who have ONS made easier by the use of alcohol STILL KNOW they are married and STILL KNOW they are committing adultery when they have sex. They might not remember they had sex the night before, but in the midst of having sex, they STILL KNOW they are married. They don't forget they are married just because they are drunk.

I thought you had already claimed that you will NEVER see a drunken ONS as anything less than INTENTIONAL. Why bring it up again?

I do believe alcohol is bad. My 42 year old girlfriend just died from liver failure due to excessive alcohol consumption for the past 11 years. But, you know what, she never cheated on her husband.

But she INTENDED to die right? It wasn't the alcohol speaking...it was her... Just using your logic here...

But I don't believe most people who commit adultery by having ONSs are so drunk that they completely forget they are married or are so drunk that they don't realize the woman they are f***ing is not their wife.

I thought you were done discussing this...why do YOU keep bringing it up?

After all...all drunkards INTEND their consequences...whether it be driving into a tree or shutting their livers down or having sex

 

 

I'm not making this about me. I have been drunk before and I have had sexual encounters while drunk. I realize alcohol sheds inhibitions but it does not incapacitate your mouth which is very capable of saying "NO" in between the French kisses and the fondling

One last time...we agree to disagree.

[Tired03]

I'm glad you finally made the connection as to when A's start and that they involve secrecy. Now...how does one manage to maintain secrecy in an A without INTENT? Did you mistakenly hide it OP? Did you accidentally hide it? OR did you INTEND to hide it?

 

I was trying to clarify because I had read some things that contradicted each other - keep in mind I'm not just replying to you - this is a multi-way conversation.

 

I don't believe one maintains secrecy in an A without intent. You misread what I was asking - I got confused because of the words that people used.

 

But that being said, I still don't believe there is necessarily an intent to hurt.

 

I also know that at the point at which most people have "feelings" they do get very confused. They question their marriage ("how could I possibly have love feelings for someone else"), they question their values and they question themselves. My friend who fell in love with someone else was so sick over her confusion that she lost a ton of weight, went on an anti-depressant, looked like hell 99% of the time and was routinely crying over her situation.

 

I don't really know why it feels like you have to "win" the conversation jwi71 - it seems really important to you, so I'll go with it, but I just want you to know that I'm really just trying to understand because I DO very much see varied viewpoints - perhaps not from you and Owl, but from folks like Dexter and others.

[Mr. Lucky]

Tell me, Mr. Lucky, did you ever pass a beautiful woman on the street and in your mind think, "Wow. She's hot."

 

Did you tell your spouse immediately, because if you didn't, your INTENT was clearly stated.

 

What if that woman approached you and started talking to you. How would you feel talking to her? Would your palms get sweaty. Would your heart race a little? Would you stand a little taller or suck your gut in a little? Would you tell your wife about this? Why would you hide it?

Well to make it an apples to apples comparison, if I had a conversation with this woman, made arrangements to see her later, went out of my way to spend time with her and eventually professed my feelings for her and she for me then yes, I like to think that I would tell my wife about it. Because to do otherwise would clearly indicate my intentions to harm both my spouse and marriage ...

 

Mr. Lucky

[NoIDidn't]

Well to make it an apples to apples comparison, if I had a conversation with this woman, made arrangements to see her later, went out of my way to spend time with her and eventually professed my feelings for her and she for me then yes, I like to think that I would tell my wife about it. Because to do otherwise would clearly indicate my intentions to harm both my spouse and marriage ...

 

Mr. Lucky

 

Great post! I agree.

 

When one desires to have an affair, intent is clear. Whether they ever admit to it or not.

 

They intend to keep you in the dark about it, that's for sure.

 

Classic circular logic (which is really no logic at all):

 

 

"I didn't want to you know. I didn't intend to hurt you. Its just that if you knew about it, you'd be hurt. And if you don't know then you aren't hurt. So I didn't intend to hurt you. You weren't supposed to find out."

[taylor]

Well to make it an apples to apples comparison, if I had a conversation with this woman, made arrangements to see her later, went out of my way to spend time with her and eventually professed my feelings for her and she for me then yes, I like to think that I would tell my wife about it. Because to do otherwise would clearly indicate my intentions to harm both my spouse and marriage ...

 

Mr. Lucky

 

Sorry, but this is not an apples to apples comparison.

 

Because my heart jumped when I saw the OM or because I made brownies for him for his birthday is in no way an equal comparison to me "making arrangements to see him later, going out of my way to spend time with him, or professing feelings for him."

 

You getting sweaty palms or a racing heart at the sight of a beautiful woman would be comparable to my heart skipping a beat at the sight of the OM.

 

And perhaps if you opened a door or carried a heavy box for a beautiful woman that would be comparable to me making him brownies for the OM's birthday party at work.

 

My affair with the OM ended 9 days after feelings were expressed because we didn't want our relationship to turn into something sordid..sneaky and deceiptful.

 

And we NEVER met outside work except to say goodbye..something my husband knew about.

 

And we never went out of our way to spend time together. We worked side by side 40 hours a week...no need to go out of our way to see each other.

 

My feelings for the OM developed as we stood side by side doing our jobs. Nothing ever went outside the workplace.

 

So, again, would you tell your wife if you thought your coworker friend was "hot" if she indeed was hot? Would you tell your wife that sometimes your heart raced a little or your palms got sweaty talking to this beautiful coworker. Would you tell your wife you bought this coworker a box of candy for the company birthday party they were having for her?

[taylor]

Wow...my friends will be crushed that some anonymous internet cheater thinks they have boring lives.

 

Maybe a ONS with a drunken skank would cheer them up!

 

I stopped drinking MANY years ago...even before I met my stbxw.

And, sadly, I did drink so much I do NOT remember...and have woken up to walk the "walk of shame" in the frat house. Sigh.

 

Sorry. Not familiar with the "walk of shame." Care to elaborate. Nevermind.

 

 

Good for you. I have different values and in such the type of infidelity MOST forgivable is a drunken ONS (which happens once in an otherwise good M).

 

Whose marriage are you talking about..yours? Obviously we have different values. I could not forgive a sexual affair of any kind, especially one where my husband would stoop so low as to have a ONS with a skank.

 

 

 

I understand this sentiment. At least you cheated for someone who meant something to you...so easy to get over...I'm sure it comforts your H.

 

Actually, not easy to get over. Not at all. My husband did not take comfort in knowing it was an EA, but he took comfort in knowing I did not get naked with the OM and have sex with him. I believe I would have lost ALL of his respect if I had gotten drunk and let some strange guy screw me. That would have killed my husband. Making brownies for a guy at work who made my heart pitter-pat a little pales in comparison to that.

 

 

Well, I don't fantasize about anonymous internet cheaters. Unless you look like Halle Berry. Do you?

 

Nope. Can't say I do. I am younger, caucasian, and blond with green eyes. Sorry. Guess that bursts that fantasy bubble.

 

I thought you had already claimed that you will NEVER see a drunken ONS as anything less than INTENTIONAL. Why bring it up again?

But she INTENDED to die right? It wasn't the alcohol speaking...it was her... Just using your logic here...

 

If a man takes his clothes off and takes a woman's clothes off, I would say he has INTENT to have sex with her.

 

If a man drinks alcohol excessively (like my friend) I would not say it was his INTENT to die at an early age.

 

I equate INTENT with DESIRE, PURPOSE, MOTIVATION...not with some other posters twist on the definition.

 

 

I thought you were done discussing this...why do YOU keep bringing it up?

After all...all drunkards INTEND their consequences...whether it be driving into a tree or shutting their livers down or having sex

 

I keep bringing it up because you keep misinterpreting what I am trying to say. So I say it in another way, hoping I can clarify the point I am trying to make.

 

ANd there, you did it again with your remark above.

 

Drunkards do not INTEND to drive into a tree. That is not their desire, motivation or purpose.

 

Drunkards do not INTEND to shut down their livers. That is not their desire, motive or purpose.

 

Drunkards who take their clothes off and climb on top of a willing woman DO INTEND to have sex. That IS their DESIRE, MOTIVATION, PURPOSE.

[Reggie]

Well to make it an apples to apples comparison, if I had a conversation with this woman, made arrangements to see her later, went out of my way to spend time with her and eventually professed my feelings for her and she for me then yes, I like to think that I would tell my wife about it. Because to do otherwise would clearly indicate my intentions to harm both my spouse and marriage ...

 

Mr. Lucky

 

Nice hole poking in that twisted analogy, L:bunny:.

[Reggie]

I see no difference in your form of cheating, Taylor,as compared to a drunken ONS. In fact,yours went on longer ,right? Why the distinction?Betrayal is betrayal, IMO.

[NoIDidn't]

Drunkards do not INTEND to drive into a tree. That is not their desire, motivation or purpose.

 

Drunkards do not INTEND to shut down their livers. That is not their desire, motive or purpose.

 

Drunkards who take their clothes off and climb on top of a willing woman DO INTEND to have sex. That IS their DESIRE, MOTIVATION, PURPOSE.

 

 

LOL, this is about as clear as mud.

 

Most of us know that driving while intoxicated could mean that we drive into a tree whether we intend to or not. Same with the liver issue.

 

They may not intend for those things to happen, but they certainly aren't doing anything to prevent it if they drive drunk or drink so much that they're livers shut down.

 

LOL, smh, smh...

[taylor]

Again Taylor, this is where it seems to me that you're practicing revisionist history. Early on, when your "heart started to skip a beat at the sight of him", you went straight home and told your H that "I work with Joe and I'm all aflutter at just the thought of him" ???

 

Because if you didn't or if you didn't establish firm boundaries as to your interactions with Joe, your "INTENT" was clearly stated from that point on...

 

Mr. Lucky

 

I have found other people attractive throughout my married life. Even got a few compliments from some who brightened my day with their kind words. ANd once in a while I pass an attractive man on the street or one goes out of his way to "help" me in some small way...carry a box for me or get something down off a shelf for me.

 

But I don't run home and give my husband a roster of every man that complimented me or did something nice for me. I don't give him blow by blow descriptions of men I see throughout the day whom I may find attractive. I don't alert him with the names of men I share a conversation with at the water cooler or for a few moments after exercise class.

 

Yes, I liked the OM for a long time before anything became uncomfortable. We were just friends for quite a while before things started to move from platonic to not-so-platonic. ANd when they reached that point, I did not run to my husband with the info because I considered it a silly infatuation that wasn't going to go anywhere because I wasn't going to let it go anywhere. My decision to not inform my husband had nothing to do with hiding, deceipt, or secrecy. I truly thought the infatuation would run its course and the feelings would dissipate. I thought, for a long time, it was just a crazy notion...a harmless fantasy.

 

I totally disagree with the twist posters are putting here on the definition of intent. To me, intent means desire, purpose, motivation. I had no desire, purpose or motivation to hurt my husband. I did nothing to hurt my husband. My feelings for the OM developed slowly as I worked side by side with him 40 hours a week.

 

I will agree, though, Mr. Lucky, that I did not have strong enough boundaries in place. Physical ones, yes, but not emotional ones.

 

If that makes me a diabolical, malicious cheating whore, then so be it.

[Reggie]

This intent debate is going around in circles. I feel that somone that cheats on her/his spouse has to know it will hurt their families. Does it really matter if they intended to do harm? Clearly, they did not give a rat's ass about harming others. So, what is the big difference? It's still as abusive as it gets.

[Mr. Lucky]

I did nothing to hurt my husband.

I personally think you're applying more spin than a Nadal forehand. But that's just my opinion.

If that makes me a diabolical, malicious cheating whore, then so be it.

Not in my book. Based on your posting style, you seem intelligent, well-reasoned and analytical. It's just that in this case, I don't think you're being honest with yourself. Again, JMHO...

 

Mr. Lucky

[taylor]

LOL, this is about as clear as mud.

 

Most of us know that driving while intoxicated could mean that we drive into a tree whether we intend to or not. Same with the liver issue.

 

They may not intend for those things to happen, but they certainly aren't doing anything to prevent it if they drive drunk or drink so much that they're livers shut down.

 

LOL, smh, smh...

 

That's right. It's not their intention for those things to happen. Period.

 

I don't think smokers intend to inflict health problems on their children but they do every time they light up and blow second hand smoke into a room. I don't think smokers intend to shorten their own lives and leave their children at an early age but they do every time they light up.

 

They don't light up so that they can hurt someone else. This is not their purpose in smoking. It's not their motivation/drive/goal.

 

Smokers simply don't look at it that way when they light up. The thought of their children do not even enter their minds when they puff away.

 

Same for WS.

 

****

 

I truly do not understand why so much discussion is given to one word...intent.

 

If every WS admitted it was their INTENT to cause you as much unbearable pain as they could...if a WS told you they were highly motivated to inflict as much hurt on you as they could....would that make you any happier? Would that make them any more responsible for their "crime" of adultery? Would it make the "crime" more severe...more punishable?

 

The thing is I truly don't think many WS give their BS one darn thought when in the throes of an affair..and I think that is what is most hurtful to BS...that they weren't even considered important or valued enough to be given a moment's thought or consideration.

 

Again, if you want to know if your WS wanted to inflict the most horrible pain on you, ask your WS. Only he or she knows for sure.

[taylor]

I see no difference in your form of cheating, Taylor,as compared to a drunken ONS. In fact,yours went on longer ,right? Why the distinction?Betrayal is betrayal, IMO.

 

Mine went on longer but I maintained enough self-control as to not have sex with the OM even though I wanted to.

 

My husband sees a difference between an EA and a PA. And that's all that matters to me.

 

I am also thankful I did not have sex with the OM. My self-respect would have plummetted to ground zero. I would have felt dirty...almost as if I had raped myself. I do not think I could have forgiven myself for that. Forgiving myself for the EA was hard enough.

 

And I know my husband never would have forgiven a PA of any kind, ONS or otherwise. It would have been a deal breaker for him.

 

Everyone has their own way of looking at things.

 

What one person can tolerate, another can't.

 

What one person is outraged by, doesn't bother the next person.

 

What one person values, another finds worthless.

 

And so on.

[taylor]

 

I think getting drunk is its own lack of judgment and is not excusable. What if this drunk had gotten behind the wheel of a car instead of in bed with a sleazy person for a ONS? What if someone lost their live because of this drunk behind the wheel? "Well, Officer, I didn't intend to kill anybody?" How does THAT hold up in court? No different than if the person didn't think enough of themselves to not put themselves into a position to not know what is going on around them.

 

The difference being this:

 

A drunk married person who climbs on top of a willing woman KNOWS he is going to have sex and KNOWS he is committing adultery.

 

A drunk person who climbs behind the wheel of a car does NOT KNOW he is going to kill another person.

 

Both unforgiveable acts IMO, however.