kdark Posted April 19, 2009 Posted April 19, 2009 OP, respect is key in a viable relationship. I'm not reading any. What I'm seeing is a relationship with little to no trust and a major lack of respect, which compounds the communication issues. Either the two of you are going to work on those issues, or you can walk. If you walk, you're destined to repeat a similar relationship dynamic, unless you learn how to communicate effectively. Just saying you trust and respect a person, doesn't mean you do. Your actions while fighting, reflect the true level of respect and trust. It sounds to me like he's trying, but he just doesn't know how to get through to her. Whether it's because he has no respect and still resents her or she is being overly pouty and difficult is hard to tell.
Trialbyfire Posted April 19, 2009 Posted April 19, 2009 I don't understand your response. Are you saying I don't respect her because it upsets me when she doesn't talk things over?I've asked you over and over again, about discussing communication issues when you're both calm. What I get back is that she's unable to communicate, during a fight. I'm only seeing a one-way blame fest. Am I misunderstanding you? Can you in some way approach her when you're both calm and try to discuss things, not from a fault perspective but through discussion of wants and needs? Also, yes, I believe you don't respect or trust her. If you did, the harsh negative thoughts about cheating wouldn't crop up. People aren't angels or demons.
Author mr.dream merchant Posted April 19, 2009 Author Posted April 19, 2009 I've asked you over and over again, about discussing communication issues when you're both calm. What I get back is that she's unable to communicate, during a fight. I'm only seeing a one-way blame fest. Am I misunderstanding you? Can you in some way approach her when you're both calm and try to discuss things, not from a fault perspective but through discussion of wants and needs? Also, yes, I believe you don't respect or trust her. If you did, the harsh negative thoughts about cheating wouldn't crop up. People aren't angels or demons. When we're both calm and I discuss communication issues, she agrees herself that she needs to work on her communication. She tells me that she isn't good at it, so at least she's able to admit that. And yes, I'm able to approach her when she's calm but sometimes when I try to discuss things when she's calm, she just gets upset again, and she sort of resorts to the bickering mentality. Like I said before, sometimes I just don't make eye contact with it for the sake of not wanting to argue.
Trialbyfire Posted April 19, 2009 Posted April 19, 2009 It sounds to me like he's trying, but he just doesn't know how to get through to her. Whether it's because he has no respect and still resents her or she is being overly pouty and difficult is hard to tell.He can't control her facial expressions or attitudes. Also, no one can see their own facial expressions/body language, when in a disagreement.
Author mr.dream merchant Posted April 19, 2009 Author Posted April 19, 2009 I never really approach her and blame her for things. I don't sit her down to nail her to a wall with faults and ****. I approach her and I try to understand where she is coming from. But it usually ends up in her getting upset and blaming me for things. Like I said before, I admit to my faults and wrongs, but I also try to show her how and why I said things to her, based on her actions. When I do this, I'm not trying to blame her for anything, but rather to show her why sometimes our fights happen, because of the way something was said, or the tone of voice that was used. When I do this, she just gets upset and says I'm blame shifting.
Trialbyfire Posted April 19, 2009 Posted April 19, 2009 When we're both calm and I discuss communication issues, she agrees herself that she needs to work on her communication. She tells me that she isn't good at it, so at least she's able to admit that. And yes, I'm able to approach her when she's calm but sometimes when I try to discuss things when she's calm, she just gets upset again, and she sort of resorts to the bickering mentality. Like I said before, sometimes I just don't make eye contact with it for the sake of not wanting to argue. Have you tried some kind of key phrase trigger? Do you believe that your style is effective and flawless?
kdark Posted April 19, 2009 Posted April 19, 2009 He can't control her facial expressions or attitudes. Also, no one can see their own facial expressions/body language, when in a disagreement. But it's not just a facial expression, it's dwelling on the past and being unable to move on and correct a behavior. Now MDM obviously has communication issues himself because everytime he brings this up she gets upset again. He's either saying it in a way that is insensitive and blaming, or she being overly stubborn and unwilling to work with him. Either way, communication is the problem.
Author mr.dream merchant Posted April 19, 2009 Author Posted April 19, 2009 Have you tried some kind of key phrase trigger? Do you believe that your style is effective and flawless? I wouldn't say flawless but it generally works for the most part. All I want is for her to not shut me out when she's upset with me because it doesn't get us anywhere. I understand she's upset but shutting me out until your anger goes away doesn't solve anything, it just makes that problem dormant for the time being. Something else could trigger it.
Trialbyfire Posted April 19, 2009 Posted April 19, 2009 But it's not just a facial expression, it's dwelling on the past and being unable to move on and correct a behavior. Now MDM obviously has communication issues himself because everytime he brings this up she gets upset again. He's either saying it in a way that is insensitive and blaming, or she being overly stubborn and unwilling to work with him. Either way, communication is the problem. Reality usually sits somewhere in the middle, where he's using the finger pointing style, which then causes the passive-aggressive dynamic. No matter which way it is, if you don't trust and respect your partner to anty up their share of the relationship, it's not a relationship that will last.
Trialbyfire Posted April 19, 2009 Posted April 19, 2009 I wouldn't say flawless but it generally works for the most part. All I want is for her to not shut me out when she's upset with me because it doesn't get us anywhere. I understand she's upset but shutting me out until your anger goes away doesn't solve anything, it just makes that problem dormant for the time being. Something else could trigger it. You know what? I had that happen before. No matter what I tried, nothing worked. It was his way or the highway. Zero room for compromise and zero give. We were horrifically ill-suited, in communication style. It was like fighting in two different languages. I would state an issue in English and he would rebutt with something in Martian. Needless to say, it didn't work out. Now, I'm with someone who speaks the same language, who de-escalates with maturity. It's energizing v. exhausting.
carhill Posted April 19, 2009 Posted April 19, 2009 Right now I wouldn't consider getting professional help. We don't argue everyday. Ask her how she feels about that. Say "I'd like to get some professional help with my communication issues and I want you to join me. How do you feel about that?" FWIW, my wife and I argued more (and more healthfully) during MC than ever prior. We both gained more clarity too. Clarity comes from clear communication, IMO. I'm finding this is especially helpful when winding down a marriage. Who needs all that toxic cr@p when the pain of loss is bad enough?
Author mr.dream merchant Posted April 19, 2009 Author Posted April 19, 2009 You know what? I had that happen before. No matter what I tried, nothing worked. It was his way or the highway. Zero room for compromise and zero give. We were horrifically ill-suited, in communication style. It was like fighting in two different languages. I would state an issue in English and he would rebutt with something in Martian. Needless to say, it didn't work out. Now, I'm with someone who speaks the same language, who de-escalates with maturity. It's energizing v. exhausting. Thats exactly how I feel. Like when we argue, we're speaking differently languages with angry accents. One time she told me that when she's upset to just leave her be and she'll get over it, that trying to talk to her and fixing the situation right away won't work. Buts its hard when she has an episode when we're out. Cause then she pulls her pouting stunt and I'm just stuck with it for the night. There's been times where I took her home and she got upset that I took her home.
Trialbyfire Posted April 19, 2009 Posted April 19, 2009 Thats exactly how I feel. Like when we argue, we're speaking differently languages with angry accents. One time she told me that when she's upset to just leave her be and she'll get over it, that trying to talk to her and fixing the situation right away won't work. Buts its hard when she has an episode when we're out. Cause then she pulls her pouting stunt and I'm just stuck with it for the night. There's been times where I took her home and she got upset that I took her home. You have two choices. Either try to find a way to effectively communicate with her or walk. Take your pick.
Author mr.dream merchant Posted April 19, 2009 Author Posted April 19, 2009 You have two choices. Either try to find a way to effectively communicate with her or walk. Take your pick. Trying the former but its hard. In a way, I'm glad I made this post. Lots of positive feedback. Its a way for me to let my emotional side out without looking like a total lame.
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