DNU1 Posted April 13, 2009 Posted April 13, 2009 New here. Married 18 years and wife had two affairs. A#1 was 1996...we worked through things. A#2 was Aug-Oct 2008, DDay 12-26-08. Working on recovery. I'm not sure how much I will be able to post here. I've heard there are sites / forums out there for OM/OWs... Look, I'm not trying to stir the pot, or get on a soap box here. I'm just offering up my perspective as a two-time-betrayed spouse. Your life is your life...do with it what you will. If you have a Q or wondering about something, give me a shout. I'll do my best to remain objective and give you honest and open feedback. D.
Athena Posted April 13, 2009 Posted April 13, 2009 Hi DNU1, I have a Q: How many more affairs would it take from your W, before you called it quits? How were the affairs discovered/admitted? Why do you hang in there? I too am a BS of several D-Days... Oh, yeah, and another question -- do you think if you had an A of your own, that your W would see first-hand how it feels, and stop her wanderings?
RecordProducer Posted April 13, 2009 Posted April 13, 2009 DNU1, you're in the right forum and place for this problem. Many people here post about affairs. Feel free to post and you will kget a lot of feedback. Welcome to our caring community!
Author DNU1 Posted April 13, 2009 Author Posted April 13, 2009 Hi DNU1, I have a Q: How many more affairs would it take from your W, before you called it quits? How were the affairs discovered/admitted? Why do you hang in there? I too am a BS of several D-Days... Oh, yeah, and another question -- do you think if you had an A of your own, that your W would see first-hand how it feels, and stop her wanderings? Good question Athena...one that I have thought long and hard about, and answered many times on another forum. Here's my take: We went through counseling after both DDays and still going. My opinion is these affairs were a result of my not meeting my wife's key emotional needs, her lack of boundaries and low self-esteem. I pushed her away mentally, wanting a more low-maintenance wife who could take care of herself more. She longed for attention, someone to talk to, take care of her, listen to her. She began just "talking" to the OMs and it lead to an emotional affair...that turned in to a physical affair. Affair #1 was 14 years ago...she came clean after realizing she wanted to be married to me, not with OM. Gut-wrenching and heartbreaking. But we made a go of it. Started a family, many years of good marriage. But always an underlying tone of holding back on feelings and communication. Affair #2 groundwork laid as we made move and I became stay-at-home-dad. Wife felt I sould be doing more laundry, cooking, cleaning, kiddos stuff and joked with me about it. I didn't see her true feelings and ignored her joking. Lead to resentment on her part and my not meeting her emotional needs. EA started Aug 2008 via phone and text. They hooked up in Vegas for PA Oct 2008, shortly after she blew up at me about all the lack of meeting her needs. So I hunkered down and worked hard on me and marriage (all while not knowing there was OM...had a gut feeling, but burried that feeling). OM stopped calling/texting early Nov and wife got on anti-depressants. Very down. She re-committed to marriage and family (I later learned through her e-mails to friend) and things seemed to get better. I found out about A#2 via her opene e-mail day after Christmas, 2008. Blam! Ouch. Confronted her that day. Not sure if I wanted to stay married to her. Took my time figuring out if I even wanted to try. She was luke-warm about our marriage, but still battling withdrawal from OM. We both decided to work on things. I will not kid you, it's been HARD! But she continues to improve. She's totally transparent - I have all e-mail passwords, access to phone, she spends 95-99% of her non working time with me. We are in counseling and talk a lot. Still working on things. Still progressing. I told myself I would give this 6 months and see where we were. Wanted to work on the marriage for myself and my children. We are four months in to this recovery and it gets better every day. Some days have a step back, but we are getting better. I hang in there because I love her and we have soo many great memories together and a family. I hang in there because she is making an effort, a huge effort. I have not told her I will stay married to her. I've told her as long as we are making progress and she is giving effort to US, I will continue to do so. This is a long way from being resolved and recovered. I've never considered a revenge-affair. Nor have I ever even pondered bringing that up to her. It's not fair, unethical and just not in my persona. And to be honest, me staying faithful gives me a sense of "i've done this right" in my mind. I'm continuing to remain faithful to my marriage, regardless of any affair my wife has. Affairs suck and are heart-wrenching. But we grew tremendously after affair #1. And we are making huge strides in our marriage now, after Affair#2. It's just too bad that we had to hit rock bottom.
bentnotbroken Posted April 13, 2009 Posted April 13, 2009 Good question Athena...one that I have thought long and hard about, and answered many times on another forum. Here's my take: We went through counseling after both DDays and still going. My opinion is these affairs were a result of my not meeting my wife's key emotional needs, her lack of boundaries and low self-esteem. I pushed her away mentally, wanting a more low-maintenance wife who could take care of herself more. She longed for attention, someone to talk to, take care of her, listen to her. She began just "talking" to the OMs and it lead to an emotional affair...that turned in to a physical affair. Affair #1 was 14 years ago...she came clean after realizing she wanted to be married to me, not with OM. Gut-wrenching and heartbreaking. But we made a go of it. Started a family, many years of good marriage. But always an underlying tone of holding back on feelings and communication. Affair #2 groundwork laid as we made move and I became stay-at-home-dad. Wife felt I sould be doing more laundry, cooking, cleaning, kiddos stuff and joked with me about it. I didn't see her true feelings and ignored her joking. Lead to resentment on her part and my not meeting her emotional needs. EA started Aug 2008 via phone and text. They hooked up in Vegas for PA Oct 2008, shortly after she blew up at me about all the lack of meeting her needs. So I hunkered down and worked hard on me and marriage (all while not knowing there was OM...had a gut feeling, but burried that feeling). OM stopped calling/texting early Nov and wife got on anti-depressants. Very down. She re-committed to marriage and family (I later learned through her e-mails to friend) and things seemed to get better. I found out about A#2 via her opene e-mail day after Christmas, 2008. Blam! Ouch. Confronted her that day. Not sure if I wanted to stay married to her. Took my time figuring out if I even wanted to try. She was luke-warm about our marriage, but still battling withdrawal from OM. We both decided to work on things. I will not kid you, it's been HARD! But she continues to improve. She's totally transparent - I have all e-mail passwords, access to phone, she spends 95-99% of her non working time with me. We are in counseling and talk a lot. Still working on things. Still progressing. I told myself I would give this 6 months and see where we were. Wanted to work on the marriage for myself and my children. We are four months in to this recovery and it gets better every day. Some days have a step back, but we are getting better. I hang in there because I love her and we have soo many great memories together and a family. I hang in there because she is making an effort, a huge effort. I have not told her I will stay married to her. I've told her as long as we are making progress and she is giving effort to US, I will continue to do so. This is a long way from being resolved and recovered. I've never considered a revenge-affair. Nor have I ever even pondered bringing that up to her. It's not fair, unethical and just not in my persona. And to be honest, me staying faithful gives me a sense of "i've done this right" in my mind. I'm continuing to remain faithful to my marriage, regardless of any affair my wife has. Affairs suck and are heart-wrenching. But we grew tremendously after affair #1. And we are making huge strides in our marriage now, after Affair#2. It's just too bad that we had to hit rock bottom. You have owned your part of the problems in the marriage, but the A's are all her decision. She saw how much it hurt you the first time, yet she did it again. What's to stop her when she feels neglected again? I must say you are a strong person to give her another shot at it. I'm not that strong.
Reggie Posted April 13, 2009 Posted April 13, 2009 It's good to take a look at yourself. But, your wife seems to have much bigger problems than you. I would not take too much responsibility for the pre-A issues. Folks that cheat are more often the ones bringing less to the pre-A marriage.
Author DNU1 Posted April 13, 2009 Author Posted April 13, 2009 You have owned your part of the problems in the marriage, but the A's are all her decision. She saw how much it hurt you the first time, yet she did it again. What's to stop her when she feels neglected again? I must say you are a strong person to give her another shot at it. I'm not that strong. Yes, I played part in this, but you are correct in that the affair was her decision. We have talked long and hard about what lead to this affair. She talks of the slippery slope of calling / texting the OM, growing feelings for him, feeling it was wrong, knowing this would hurt me, etc. etc., etc. What's to stop her from doing this again? I will NEVER stop verifying her whereabouts. I will keep close tabs on her phone, e-mail, texts, friends, etc. Call it snooping if you want...I choose to call it verifying my wife's actions. It will be her actions that prove to me her worthiness of this marriage. And her establishing good boundaries. Boundaries include but are not limited to: no "male friends." No nights out without me. Calling to tell me where she is, what she's doing when not at work or with me. Total transperence with regard to technology (e-mail, phone, text, facebook, etc.). Openness and honesty with me. Many on another forum saw my wife as a serial cheater and advised me to leave her. Some supported my decision to work on the marriage. I've been working my tail off, and so has she. It is a long and winding road, a marathon of sorts. But I'm still hanging in there. I think fundamentally my wife has low self esteem and needs to be "taken care of" and "needed." I took care of her when dating and married. Then tried to push her away to be more independent...which lead to Affair #1. Did that again and lead to affair #2. You can bet I will not be making that mistake again. I'm being strong for ME! I'm being strong for my children! And I'm being strong for my wife. Even though she hurt me to the core, I do love her and will contiue to work on this marriage as long as she does the same. She knows we are in this together and it will take our combined efforts to make this work. I can't do it alone. Neither can she.
Author DNU1 Posted April 13, 2009 Author Posted April 13, 2009 It's good to take a look at yourself. But, your wife seems to have much bigger problems than you. I would not take too much responsibility for the pre-A issues. Folks that cheat are more often the ones bringing less to the pre-A marriage. Thanks Reggie. All I can do is work on me. I cannot change her...she's got to want to do that. And she is. Slowly but surely.
fooled once Posted April 13, 2009 Posted April 13, 2009 I always wonder why the betrayed spouse feels like it is his/her fault their wife/husband CHOSE to seek out and have an affair instead of talking with their husband/wife about what they need. I am sorry you are feeling that your wife's lack of priorities and poor choices are YOUR fault. Sounds like deflecting to me. And I personally couldn't be in a marriage where I have to watch my husband (know his passwords, check his cell phone, etc) to ensure he doesn't cheat. I feel sad for you
Bluebird In My Heart Posted April 13, 2009 Posted April 13, 2009 I always wonder why the betrayed spouse feels like it is his/her fault their wife/husband CHOSE to seek out and have an affair instead of talking with their husband/wife about what they need. I think most of the time, it's so they feel like they have control over something... I am sorry you are feeling that your wife's lack of priorities and poor choices are YOUR fault. Sounds like deflecting to me. And I personally couldn't be in a marriage where I have to watch my husband (know his passwords, check his cell phone, etc) to ensure he doesn't cheat. I feel sad for you Whenever things get to that point...I just don't know what to think. I always find it sad as well. ########## OP, have you ever considered the fact that your wife may very well have developed needs that no human being could ever meet? What are your dealbreakers? What's the limit on what you are willing to take, even with the wife trying to make things work?
Bluebird In My Heart Posted April 13, 2009 Posted April 13, 2009 Thanks btw for your willingness to answer questions I have always wanted to ask a BS. A lot of what they do makes little sense to me in many cases, when it comes to staying together. You're awesome for taking the time.
Author DNU1 Posted April 14, 2009 Author Posted April 14, 2009 I'll try to answer these best I can... Fooled once: Both ICs pointed out that it takes two to make marriage work, and two to make things go south. I looked long and hard at myself and my marriage and understand that there are things I did and didn't do that helped lay ground work for affair. This in NO WAY absolves my wife for the affairs. Weight of that is squarely on her shoulders... I'm not diflecting...I'm taking responsibility for my part in this. And she's taking responsibility for her part. Yes, she choose to start an EA with another man instead of communicating her needs to me. She's owning that. As far as verifying / snooping, remember, we are only 4 months past DDay. I don't trust her...I verify her whereabouts. Transparency, and I'm talking 100% transparency is a MUST for me to continue working on this marriage. BlueBird: Interesting point about needs "ever" being met. I will have to think about that one. Dealbreakers -- crappy attitude towards recovery. I.e. not attending counseling, not being completely 100% transparent (e-mail, phone, text, account for time), not talking to me / listening to me, failing to meet my emotional needs. It's all about her attitude at this point in time. Good attitude, working towards recovery = I'm in. Crappy, I-could-care-less attitude = see ya. Limit on what I'm willing to take -- I said after affair #1 that I would never go through this again...she'd be gone. Strange because as the affair was going I had a bad gut feeling. When affair ended things got a little better (I still had no clue about OM and affair)...then month later was DDay. ICK. But you know, looking back I could see how I pushed her away and did not meet her key emotional needs. Someone else stepped in and did that...and bang, EA started. Look, this ain't pretty. It's not easy either. But I realize that she is human, she's got her flaws (as do I), and if, I repeat, IF we work hard on this marriage it may just work out. Dr. Harley talks about recovery taking around 2 years. Considering all the time and effort I have invested in this marriage, 17 years, two kids, lots of education & degrees, great times...well, I'm willing to give it time.
hoping2heal Posted April 17, 2009 Posted April 17, 2009 New here. Married 18 years and wife had two affairs. A#1 was 1996...we worked through things. A#2 was Aug-Oct 2008, DDay 12-26-08. Working on recovery. I'm not sure how much I will be able to post here. I've heard there are sites / forums out there for OM/OWs... Look, I'm not trying to stir the pot, or get on a soap box here. I'm just offering up my perspective as a two-time-betrayed spouse. Your life is your life...do with it what you will. If you have a Q or wondering about something, give me a shout. I'll do my best to remain objective and give you honest and open feedback. D. I could really use your help/advice/guidance right now. I have not cheated on my partner, but I've lied and he feels the betrayel to be equally strong to me having cheated on him. I've come clean with all the past lying, and have stopped lying to him. I'm in therapy to deal with my issues and we're on a..well..I don't know what you'd call it..we're doing this thing where we seperate until I've worked out my issues and then we'll get back together. He feels I don't take responsibility for my actions i.e I've told him I feel like I make an effort in the relationship by sitting through him venting his anger towards me time after time. He feels that when I've accepted he yells & says what he says as a result of my lying, that I'll have taken responsibility. I don't seem to meet his needs, he feels I don't listen to him or care what goes on in his life. NOT the case, I assure you. I am trying to be a better partner, I just realise it may all be too little too late, cause I don't think he sees ANY of how I've turned things around. He views it all as "things I do for me, because it's my issues". He doesn't feel any of the coming clean with the lying, therapy,etc. is for any benefit of "us". I wish he would realise it IS for us too..but I guess I'm just rambling.. Anyhow..would appreciate your guidance..
Mr. Lucky Posted April 17, 2009 Posted April 17, 2009 Dealbreakers -- crappy attitude towards recovery. I.e. not attending counseling, not being completely 100% transparent (e-mail, phone, text, account for time), not talking to me / listening to me, failing to meet my emotional needs. It's all about her attitude at this point in time. Good attitude, working towards recovery = I'm in. Crappy, I-could-care-less attitude = see ya. Interesting that affair #3 isn't on your list of dealbreakers . As others have said, you are obviously a strong and well-grounded person. I hope your W realizes at some point what it costs you to stay in the marriage... Mr. Lucky
Author DNU1 Posted April 18, 2009 Author Posted April 18, 2009 Mr. Lucky: I don't list A#3 as a deal breaker for a couple of reasons. My wife's affairs started as EAs that lasted three-four months before becoming PAs. Right now she spends 95-99% of her non-working time with me. And I have complete access to her phone, e-mail, texts, facebook, etc. If I *see* her venturing down the road to an EA I'll put the brakes on and let her have it, both barrels! Affairs just don't *happen*, the develop because of poor boundaries, other people meeting key emotional needs, developing that relationship. Wife's not a "one-night-stand" kind of person. Hoping2heal: By "lying" what exactly are you talking about? An EA? Something else? My best advice is to continue counseling and head to marriage builders *dot* com and read your tail off. Lots of great information there for building marriage, repairing, surviging an affair, etc. Really great forums with people who will knock you up side the head with a 2x4 if you need it. Or help you and support you if you need that. You sound a bit reserved here...tell us more and we may be able to assist you. D.
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