Learned emotional affair wasn't over

[phineas]

I don't know the OM's GF.

All I have is her pic with him on facebook.

She doesn't appear to be a friend.

I suppose I can always call his house & tell on him to his parents.

Let them know how fine a man they raised.

 

Actually, since I know my wife knows his parents because she hung out there a few times it might be the route to go.

 

Ask them what my wife's relationship was to their son.

[phineas]

Let me commend you. I imagine she will probably give you a day to two b4 she calls begging for you to take her back. Its one thing to make you the bad guy, when she is living there. It's entirely something different when she doesn't have you to blame. She will wake up in the morning, in her dads house. Look in the mirror and see and adulteress staring back at her. You see, there are no excuses now. You do need keep track of the other guy. And be ready to let the OMs GF know. Good job. Lets see how she likes herself now.

 

She hates herself.

When she left she was a complete mess.

She was not faking that.

 

She has since called me a few times but she knows I will not take her back now or anytime soon.

She says she doesn't want divorse now & wants to try & see if we can work this out.

 

She told me again she wants to see me at MC.

I don't think it will be pretty for her.

I really don't.

 

I have to admit, I slept better last night than I have in a long time & feel as if a weight has been lifted off my shoulders.

 

She has asked me if we can still do things together with the kids & I think that is ok.

 

Before she left we kissed for the first time in a long time & I kissed the back of her neck until I made goosebumps stand up on her arm & send chills down her spine.

 

Then I sent her out the door.

 

I know I can booty call her now if I wanted to.

I told her i'm not really thrilled that all of a sudden i'm good enough for sex because her finger-**** fantasy is out of the picture.

She said she understands that.

 

I don't know if that is a good idea or not. I told her sex or no sex she still isn't coming home & If I find out the OM is sniffing around (and she knows now that I can & will) there is no chance in hell of her coming back.

 

I really don't think this OM would be stupid enough to risk his GF & being outed as a home wrecker for my wife.

 

I also really think she understands that a man who claims to love his GF wouldn't of asked my wife for those pictures & that he really isn't a good person.

 

I have told my wife I am getting a paternity test for both kids & she has told me I will find they are mine.

 

She has also said she is willing to take a polygraph and is confident she will pass it when it comes to whether she had an EA or PA.

 

I don't know how accurate those things are but people here seem to call for them quite a bit.

 

Right now as I look around I see the house is in as much disarray as the marriage & am going to spend the next week cleaning it up / out.

 

Right now I don't hate my wife.

 

I'm angry at what she did & need to know if I can ever trust her again & if she is now ready to do whatever it takes to earn my trust.

[whichwayisup]

I'm angry at what she did & need to know if I can ever trust her again & if she is now ready to do whatever it takes to earn my trust.

 

Time is on your on side. No need to make any major decisions..Just watch her actions and see what she does in and out of MC.

[Athena]

If the OP does what you say, Yes, the WS will take heart, not from love, but with relief because she will have avoided the consequences of her actions.

 

Judging from her actions, I wonder if his wife is not trying to punish herself thoroughly for having done wrong?

 

She's throwing herself out of the house... even though he told her he wants to work it out, she is saying/doing the punishing stuff to herself...

 

If she wanted to avoid the consequences entirely, she might have just carried on as if she had done no wrong... but she is not.

 

Personally, I believe she HAS cheated physically with OM, and cannot bring herself to tell her H, for fear of losing him... but now she is stuck between knowing what she's done and feeling she must be punished, but not being able to tell her H...

so, at least this way, she feels she is punishing herself for what she did even though her H hasn't been told the whole truth...

[phineas]

I worry about the punishing herself if she did have sex with this man.

But, wouldn't sending 2 min. long masterbation videos of many angles & positions to someone over the internet & realizing what she did be bad enough?

 

also we have split because there was a dark mood to the house. Both of us walking on eggshells & just not getting along at all.

 

I slept better than I have in months & feel better than I have in months with her gone one night.

 

I'm not going NC but I am not calling her to "talk" she does that enough all ready.

 

This is tougher on her by far than me.

 

does anyone have any experiance with a polygraph?

I'm wondering if the realization that she is going to take one & be found out will get her to admit if sex took place.

 

My reading her e-mails tells me it didn't happen. but it will always be in the back of my mind.

 

If she had sex with this man he would of seen her surgery scars when they were fresh as she had surgery the same month she met this man.

 

He would of had no reason to tell her they couldn't be as bad as she claimed & needed to see a picture of them "as a friend" to give her an objective opinion.

 

She wouldn't of wasted the time to take pictures of them (along with other things) & send them to him.

 

He would of allready known what they looked like & would of assured her they wern't bad at all from the start.

[samprez]

Phineas...you're kidding me right? I've been reading this thread and you actually believe they didn't do anything? Right? C'mon. They did. Just because she sent him pictures of the scars doesn't mean a thing. No way did she send those videos of herself without having done anything. And btw, what difference does it make? Aren't the videos enough for you? I'm totally confused by your concern at this point. Assume that this happened and stop lying to yourself.

[phineas]

Phineas...you're kidding me right? I've been reading this thread and you actually believe they didn't do anything? Right? C'mon. They did. Just because she sent him pictures of the scars doesn't mean a thing. No way did she send those videos of herself without having done anything. And btw, what difference does it make? Aren't the videos enough for you? I'm totally confused by your concern at this point. Assume that this happened and stop lying to yourself.

 

Have you ever talked a woman you personally knew into sending you pictures of herself like that over the internet & not had sex with her?

 

I have.

 

A few times. with co-workers a class mate. We didn't have actual sex but the got off sending me those pictures.

 

She had opportunity to screw him. That I am not denying. It's whether she did or didn't. There is no evidence. No talk of the sex they HAD.

 

where they had it, how they did it, how good it was. when.

It should of been there mixed in the chat logs.

 

I couldn't find it.

Just lots of dirty talk & I love you's & I miss you's between them.

 

I'm not lieing to myself here.

I'm giving her the benefit of the doubt.

Stupid? maybe.

 

There was a suggestion to put preasure on the OM.

I may just do that.

Or tell her i'm going to do that & see what she does.

[whichwayisup]

I have.

 

A few times. with co-workers a class mate. We didn't have actual sex but the got off sending me those pictures.

 

Does your wife know this? Just curious..

[whichwayisup]

Okay, maybe they haven't had sex yet, but they were certainly leading up to it, so the intention was there.

[samprez]

Friend, I think you are splitting hairs here. I get that you're trying to find a path through this, but sending those video's is not normal behavior, and no, despite my own transgression (spelled out here in LS) I didn't talk her into videos or pictures of that ilk.

 

You are trying to find a specific when a generalization is all you need. I'm sorry for being harsh, but there is NO WAY they didn't do anything together. And trying to find evidence in email logs isn't concrete anyway.

 

I would assume the worst, if you find out later that it wasn't the case, you'll be relieved.

[tami-chan]

Phineas, why do you care if your wife had ACTUAL sex with the OM? SHE sent PORNOGRAPHIC videos and pictures of herself---are those not enough? or are you really just that progressive and liberal about sex and pornography?

 

RE: those videos...are you not worried about OM exposing those videos to other people? or do you not care?

[phineas]

Does your wife know this? Just curious..

 

Yes.

I told her all this when we dating & comparing "stories" (we got off on it)

Once we decided we were exclusive I stopped.

[phineas]

Phineas, why do you care if your wife had ACTUAL sex with the OM? SHE sent PORNOGRAPHIC videos and pictures of herself---are those not enough? or are you really just that progressive and liberal about sex and pornography?

 

RE: those videos...are you not worried about OM exposing those videos to other people? or do you not care?

 

The truth? We have video'd ourselves quite a bit & taken quite a bit of pictures.

The fact she made those videos doesn't bother me at all. We've allready done it.

 

The fact that she told me she didn't feel sexual & made them for another man because he asked is what pissed me off.

 

Oh & I am not as worried as she is that those pictures are now out there.

 

The only reason he wouldn't send them to his friends is because he wouldn't want his GF to find out there are porno pictures of his "friend" (my wife) in his friends hands.

 

also, if they wound up somewhere on the net & my wife found out he knows she'd blow him in to his GF.

 

but yes, the thought they are out there bothers me.

[tami-chan]

The truth? We have video'd ourselves quite a bit & taken quite a bit of pictures.

The fact she made those videos doesn't bother me at all. We've allready done it.

 

Ok...but the videos are for YOUR own consumption, right?

 

The fact that she told me she didn't feel sexual & made them for another man because he asked is what pissed me off.

 

So she is an exhibitionist. She gets off by being watched. That might be something you have to reconcile yourself with, no?

 

Oh & I am not as worried as she is that those pictures are now out there.

 

That's good that you are not worried.

 

The only reason he wouldn't send them to his friends is because he wouldn't want his GF to find out there are porno pictures of his "friend" (my wife) in his friends hands.

 

also, if they wound up somewhere on the net & my wife found out he knows she'd blow him in to his GF.

 

I do not think this is much of a worry on the OM's side. Easy to explain, I think. He can just say, "this woman is a freak and sends masturbation videos-all a man needs to do is ask"...

 

I can be wrong but I think the GF will believe whatever the BF will say. All she will think about is how disgusting your wife is for making and sending those videos.

[phineas]

Friend, I think you are splitting hairs here. I get that you're trying to find a path through this, but sending those video's is not normal behavior, and no, despite my own transgression (spelled out here in LS) I didn't talk her into videos or pictures of that ilk.

 

You are trying to find a specific when a generalization is all you need. I'm sorry for being harsh, but there is NO WAY they didn't do anything together. And trying to find evidence in email logs isn't concrete anyway.

 

I would assume the worst, if you find out later that it wasn't the case, you'll be relieved.

 

You are correct.

To be honest i don't know if it will matter to me in the long run.

Even back when I suspected she screwed someone else I still had sex with her & it honestly didn't bother me because I put it in a past context.

Not a she's doing it now context.

 

Also when she was spending time with this man we had a lot of sex.

I now assume he turned her on so much she needed sex.

 

whether she got it from him I can't say right now but I do know she came home late a few times when she was out with her group of friends (with him) and screwed my brains out.

 

The second time around after establishing contact was different.

 

She got distant & didn't want sex.

In her other e-mails she told her friends she was heading towards divorse because she thought I didn't want her anymore & wasn't trying (of course nothing I did was good enough with him in the picture)

 

did she screw him I don't think so.

(But you've convinced me to assume the worst.)

Nothing in her e-mail & chat suggested anything other than chit-chat.

Until late last week.

But was she headed that way?

That I deffinetly think so.

 

The reality is (& we all know this) he would of done what he wanted then sent her packing because why choose an older mother of two when you've got a hot young GF.

 

I think she has figured that out now.

 

On a side note, she is getting an aprtment close to my house to make seeing the kids easier.

 

Ok. I approve of this. If she was seeing someone she wouldn't get a place right around the corner from me. Literally.

 

She also forwarded me an angry text the OM sent basically telling her to go to hell.

 

I guess he just got around to the e-mail I sent him about outing him to his family & GF.

 

She has changed her tune overnight from "i want my privacy" to "i'm an open book" and i've told her I need this from her.

 

She now hopes we can work it out & will pay for her share of MC & wants to know if i'd at least consider coming over to her new apartment to spend time with her & the kids as a family or for dinner or watch a movie.

 

It's a complete 180 from yesterday.

Is this normal?

Do they really see the light that quickly?

Has she realized what she has probably pissed away?

 

I've told her every time I don't want her back until she can prove to me that I am truely what she wants & she can treat me like she did when we first married.

I have told her I will do my best to do the same.

 

Also, i'm kinda liking the freedom of just me & my dog sitting by the fire drinking beer (me not the dog) & watching HGTV or DIY all Evening.

[Chrome Barracuda]

She has doso much damage, why do you want this woman back?

 

Even if she can reconsile and be forgiven. What akes you think she wont cheat later on in the future?

 

I would stay seperated, and let her do the hard work. She wants forgiveness, she wants to atone then let her apologize to everyone, admit what she did. and work for atonement.

[Athena]

She also forwarded me an angry text the OM sent basically telling her to go to hell.

____________________-

 

She has changed her tune overnight from "i want my privacy" to "i'm an open book" and i've told her I need this from her.

 

She now hopes we can work it out (...)

_____________________

It's a complete 180 from yesterday.

Is this normal?

Do they really see the light that quickly?

Has she realized what she has probably pissed away?

 

 

I think she found the door slam shut in her face from OM, and now turns back to you (the runner-up prize).

But, as Chrome pointed out, even if she reconciles with you now, what is to stop her from doing this again?

Clearly something in her character allowed her to do this in your marriage, and so if she doesn't fix that, she can very well do it again, and again...

[phineas]

She has doso much damage, why do you want this woman back?

 

Even if she can reconsile and be forgiven. What akes you think she wont cheat later on in the future?

 

I would stay seperated, and let her do the hard work. She wants forgiveness, she wants to atone then let her apologize to everyone, admit what she did. and work for atonement.

 

I may not of made it clear, but that is my intent.

She has a lot of work to do.

[phineas]

I think she found the door slam shut in her face from OM, and now turns back to you (the runner-up prize).

But, as Chrome pointed out, even if she reconciles with you now, what is to stop her from doing this again?

Clearly something in her character allowed her to do this in your marriage, and so if she doesn't fix that, she can very well do it again, and again...

 

I agree 100%.

And i've told her this.

That now i'm second best.

now that he's out of the picture she comes running back to me.

 

She tells me I was never second best but I point out to her if that were true she wouldn't of done what she did & ended her contact with him.

 

She says she knew she could never have a life with him but he made her feel the way I used to make her feel.

 

Well, i've told her I saw the desire in her eyes when she made those videos for him.

 

I told her unless I see that desire again for me in her eyes we are kidding ourselves.

 

she can't fake that. Not with me.

I know what she was like sexually when we had the spark.

It fizzled when she started talking to him & I noticed.

 

This won't be a fast fix that I can guaruntee.

[tami-chan]

All these and you still want to "fix' the marriage, why?

[imagine]

It is most excellent that she is an open book. Focus on giving her confidence in the marriage through ACTIONS.

 

Please note this: You are going to fade as your taker kicks in. She must be aware of this. You will go through many phases during recovery, which may last two -five years time.

 

Read "Surviving an Affair" and "His Needs/Her Needs" Dr Harley. (Major recovery books!)

[Dexter Morgan]

phineas.....why are still with this "woman"?

[phineas]

phineas.....why are still with this "woman"?

 

I don't know.

Just about everyone & everything in my mind tells me to run.

My gut tells me to see what happens.

 

Everything & everyone told me she wasn't having an affair.

My gut told me she was.

 

For now i'm going to listen to my gut.

It has a better track record.

 

As pointed out, time is on my side.

[lostsunsets]

Phineas,

 

You need to find out if they had sex. The polygraph is the way to go. Down load the info on a local polygraph tester. Show it to her YOU MUST BE LOOKING IN HER EYES. IF SHE LOOKS SHOCKED, OR LOOKS AWAY, YOU'LL KNOW. Tell her " You said that you would take a polygraph, I think if we are going to have a chance of reconciling you need to take one. I am sure you will jump at the chance to clear up any concerns I have. I scheduled it for day after tomorrow" She may spill the beans. If she doesn't you may still want to have her take it. It's worth it if it gives you piece of mind.

 

Phineas, you had great sex up until the OM. She slowed and then stopped having sex with you. Why do you think that happened? Because she did not want to cheat on the man she thought she loved. You do understand that right. Think hard about this for a moment. Do you believe your wife could abstain from sex for long periods of time. And I am not talking about playing with herself. And lets get this straight, now that you know it wasn't no PPD (it may have started as that). She broke down and cried, she was always angry, even at the kids. She acted that way for one reason. She took that look in the mirror and saw a cheating skank. The only way she could live with herself is to be angry with everyone. She blameshifted on to you. And justified her affair with him. MY GOSH MAN SHE HAD THIS AFFAIR FOR TWO YEARS. YOU DON'T THINK THEY SCREWED ONCE? YOU WERE WRONG ABOUT THE PPD. GET THE POLYGRAPH DONE.

I mean think about it. She actually said she was PRETTY SURE she could pass it. That doesn't sound incriminating to you?

 

Please don't mess around with this. You have to know b4 even thinking about reconciling. If she did it. Then at least you are making a decision with all the information, right?

[phineas]

It was 8 mo. in 2007 ended 1st week of Jan 2008.

it was close to 3 months before they met face to face it was all internet chat first. During this whole time she knew him we had an active sex life. Now if no sex means affair, what does regular sex mean to you? Affair also? LOL!

 

We got pregnant. (will be getting a paternity test for my parents sake, not mine trust me on this)

I know that will pan out just because the kids look like me & not this man.

 

She had zero contact until Feb 2009 when she started chatting with him & their mutual friend (which is actually his sister-in-law who lives with his family) This is the text the key logger captured from the PC during the chat session when they reconected Mid Feb.

 

ya know something was bugging me about our conversation bowling night and I didn't bring it up before I was trying to just let it go but I wanted to know why you said yothe thought crossed your mind even after we had already said not so close anymore. I don't want make you mad or upset or awkward just had to get it off my chest.

ok

you actually said you thought of trying to seduce but then let it go. I want you to know that even though it seemed like it most of the time; that wasn't my intent for wanting to chat face to face cuz that's not what we were all about. Ya know and i agree I do not want to stop being so close friends where we talk openly about anything. I think I'd miss our friendship if you weren't there any longer. I'm really happy we are friends and it's not like a casual hey hi how are ya friendship I value you more than that friendship wise

not that way anyway. we're better than that and Im glad we gotbthat cleared up. thank you

ur not gonna get wierd on me now are ya?

sorry. didn't mean to bring up a bad thought or conversation. know what, ur working so ill let ya go

sorry to hear. heehee I will always make time for ya. ur one of my best budz

on a laughing not I have to be betty crocker and make a cake for work tonight. OH JOY

no every Friday we have encouragement day they think that's gonna make us like our jobs better. I LOVE MY JOB!!!!!!!!

as I said I LOVE MY JOB!!!!!!

ya think it'll do the trick?

it's ok you can have your panties in a bunch all you want but just don't chafe haha. no like I said we are budz and can speak freely as long as ur comfortable with that. please don' tfeel like you can't tell me something for any reason. I'd like to be able to do the same from here on out. ok?

just to let you know you make me smile just by being the friend you are. I don't know what that'll mean to you but had to be said. question is though; do you think we will ever meet face face again

gonna go for now chat later if you'd like. tet when u get a chance

 

Tell me what that says to you?

 

That she shot him down & decided they shouldn't be that close anymore & ended it?

 

Or that she screwed him & decided she couldn't do it any more & ended it?

 

Any guilt she felt was over the fact that I told her that her connection to him was the problem in our marriage & she knew it while trying to tell me it was just chating online.

 

I know it was heading towards a PA. She has since admitted that. Did it get there?

I still don't think so.

 

I am looking into polygraph testers in my area.