chezmatty Posted April 9, 2009 Posted April 9, 2009 My wife and I get along really well in almost every way, except in terms of sex. The sex came to a slow after our son was born and never quite came back. We have a 3 year old, split household work very evenly. Neither of has an overwhelming job, but her's is more involving than mine at times. There are plenty of opportunities for us to have sex, long foreplay, fun in bed, etc, but she says she's just not interested. We're both very attractive and healthy and have good self-images. She's 48, I'm 36. She says I'm pushy if bring up sex as a topic. I've also asked why she's not interested in things now when she was in the past. She got angry and said I was just making her less interested in sex. I just don't raise the topic of sex anymore, because any talk of sex is 'pressuring her'. She's enjoyed anal sex in the past, but less interested now. I've never had anal sex and want to. She's not sexually experimentive at all, but used to be in the past, in other relationships. She used to wear lingerie in the past (more in other relationships). Not at all interested anymore. Sex for us is only in the middle of the night, and I initiate. Not dynamic or very interactive. One position, although occasionally she'll roll on top of me. She's half-asleep. She says she loves me and finds me attractive. She's not interested in councelling, the doctor, etc. Basically, I feel a bit down... I feel unliked. She experimented sexually and had fun and now I never will. I feel stuck. My confidence is down. Any advice?
Untouchable_Fire Posted April 9, 2009 Posted April 9, 2009 She's enjoyed anal sex in the past, but less interested now. I've never had anal sex and want to. She's not sexually experimentive at all, but used to be in the past, in other relationships. She used to wear lingerie in the past (more in other relationships). Not at all interested anymore. It sounds like she isn't attracted to you. Try getting romantic with her. If that doesn't work, maybe start looking for a wife that wants you.
seibert253 Posted April 9, 2009 Posted April 9, 2009 Pregnency really throws a women's hormones out of wack. Sometimes they never recover. A blood test will reveal if her estrogen to testosterone level is still off. With the right medication, she'll be back to normal in no time. Also, sometimes a women gets so used to the routine of being a mother, and being a wife becomes a forgone conclusion. MC and IC can assist here.
Author chezmatty Posted April 10, 2009 Author Posted April 10, 2009 I try romancing, and I'm also a very affectionate person (no strings attached). She's not very affectionate. At one time she did mention hormones maybe being out of whack, but she said she will not do hormone therapy ever. I went to an IC. She suggested going slow and waiting until the weather warmed up a bit. Maybe I should give it until June? She's not MC friendly, but maybe I could try convincing her. When our child is a bit older and more independent, do you think things will change??? My wife has said this. Pregnency really throws a women's hormones out of wack. Sometimes they never recover. A blood test will reveal if her estrogen to testosterone level is still off. With the right medication, she'll be back to normal in no time. Also, sometimes a women gets so used to the routine of being a mother, and being a wife becomes a forgone conclusion. MC and IC can assist here.
Author chezmatty Posted April 10, 2009 Author Posted April 10, 2009 My other theory: She's had depression in the past. I think maybe she's fighting depression by exerting all her energy in work and with our child. Nothing left for me. Again, though, not a subject I can raise with her. She's probably thinking, once things are better, then I can spend more time with him (if she's thinking about it at all). Maybe she'll come around? How much time should I give it?
lostsunsets Posted April 10, 2009 Posted April 10, 2009 She better turn it around. When my daughter finally left home. I told my wife that she will turn it around because I am not going to live then next 30 years of my life, without passion and hot monkey love. Your wife will be able to go on social security before your daughter graduates. If not now when?
lostsunsets Posted April 10, 2009 Posted April 10, 2009 And i would like to add one more point. You need to get up in her grill a little on this. Men gauge the condition of their marriage by having sex (this a fact, ask any marriage counselor or psychiatrist). Women judge the condition of their marriage by communication. You need to point out this fact and tell her. Based upon the quantity and quality of sex. There is no other conclusion that can be drawn, but the fact that our marriage sucks. Others would disagree. Let me relate a personal story. After my wife had our son. She went into a depression for 6 months and no sex or only complaints. I tried everything to get her out it. So i told her this was bs and went to my brothers for 2 months. That snapped her out of it. She would bring my son to my brothers in his little car seat. And she couldn't keep her hands off of me. The point is, marriage is work. But the sex in marriage is fun work and very necessary. Do not settle for this. Like i said. Get up in her grill and tell her that you must be to much of a hassle for her, so you're taking a break to let her think if she still wants to be married. Shes gotten lazy in your relationship. JMHO
Author chezmatty Posted April 10, 2009 Author Posted April 10, 2009 Just now, we were talking on the sofa. She wanted to plan out the next couple of days. After that, finally, we just sat there relaxed. We were planning to get a sitter for next Saturday, and I happy mentioned I'd better email the sitter soon. She said, oh, I have to send some emails and immediately got up to go send them. She came back down 2 minutes later, saying she didn't feel like it, and then did some things in the kitchen. She's probably reading her New Yorker right now and doesn't want to be bothered. Our sitting together on the sofa lasted all of 10 seconds.
lostsunsets Posted April 10, 2009 Posted April 10, 2009 Shes gotten lazy in your relationship. You need to literally tell her. "Apparently you spent all your sexual desire with your previous men, and there is none left for me." When we started this relationship there was passion. Now that we're married there isn't. I won't stand for it. So decide if single motherhood suits you better because you certainly don't want to spend any energy on loving your husband. JMHO
Author chezmatty Posted April 10, 2009 Author Posted April 10, 2009 Thanks, lostsunset. I have told her that, about man/women gauging marriage. Her response: 1) That's stupid. 2) If you don't like it, leave. 3) I love you. I'm sorry I disappoint you. 4) Stop being passive-aggressive about sex. The more you push, the less chance I'll want to have any sex at all. It's hard for me to raise topics with her, because she is very smart, talks fast, and debates/argues me/talks over me. She's say, "NO!". And then she'll point out 10 example, not all of them make sense. And then, I talk about one of the examples and get lost in it. Her decoys works. And i would like to add one more point. You need to get up in her grill a little on this. Men gauge the condition of their marriage by having sex (this a fact, ask any marriage counselor or psychiatrist). Women judge the condition of their marriage by communication. You need to point out this fact and tell her. Based upon the quantity and quality of sex. There is no other conclusion that can be drawn, but the fact that our marriage sucks. Others would disagree. Let me relate a personal story. After my wife had our son. She went into a depression for 6 months and no sex or only complaints. I tried everything to get her out it. So i told her this was bs and went to my brothers for 2 months. That snapped her out of it. She would bring my son to my brothers in his little car seat. And she couldn't keep her hands off of me. The point is, marriage is work. But the sex in marriage is fun work and very necessary. Do not settle for this. Like i said. Get up in her grill and tell her that you must be to much of a hassle for her, so you're taking a break to let her think if she still wants to be married. Shes gotten lazy in your relationship. JMHO
lostsunsets Posted April 10, 2009 Posted April 10, 2009 She said if you don't like it leave......then leave. Do you have family of friends you can stay with? If life with you is a pain in the ass (you wish). Then she needs to experience it without you. I'm serious.
Author chezmatty Posted April 10, 2009 Author Posted April 10, 2009 "No, you're the one pushing me away. I can't trust you, you didn't do the dishes properly (or fill in the blank with something silly)" If I say something to her along the lines of "you..." Then, she will repeat the exact same thing and say it about me, even to the point of it not making sense. Shes gotten lazy in your relationship. You need to literally tell her. "Apparently you spent all your sexual desire with your previous men, and there is none left for me." When we started this relationship there was passion. Now that we're married there isn't. I won't stand for it. So decide if single motherhood suits you better because you certainly don't want to spend any energy on loving your husband. JMHO
Author chezmatty Posted April 10, 2009 Author Posted April 10, 2009 Neither of us is from around here. No family or freinds nearby, I'm afraid. She's divorced, and I have the feeling she won't play a game like that, anyway. She said if you don't like it leave......then leave. Do you have family of friends you can stay with? If life with you is a pain in the ass (you wish). Then she needs to experience it without you. I'm serious.
lostsunsets Posted April 10, 2009 Posted April 10, 2009 Its not about whining, or begging, or bugging. Its about whether you are going to waste the best years of your life being rejected, by someone who never had a problem experimenting with sex with other men. The ball is in your court. Or do you want to wait and hope that your wife reaches the grateful age at 63 when your daughter graduates from HS and goes off to college.
lostsunsets Posted April 10, 2009 Posted April 10, 2009 Do you think it is a game? If you go, she may say good riddance. You run that risk. Or you could ask her if she wants to have an open marriage. That way you won't be bugging her. Its up to you. Personally it wasn't a game to me either.
Author chezmatty Posted April 10, 2009 Author Posted April 10, 2009 Well, I took your advice in real time. I told her I was making an appointment with a MC and she was coming or else there would be "big trouble". She said fine, then starting arguing out of it, "maybe in the Summer, I'm busy now." I came back (and she was in bed already) and I said I would find a time or two, and she would have to work her schedule around it. She starting crying and said '**** you, all I need is more pressure.' I'm going to stick to what I said about making the appointment. I have an IC who is also an MC. I haven't seen my IC in a while (she's been away on sabbatical), but she's just now back in town. Now what? What do I do in the session? What do I explain to the therapist? Do I set a meeting with just her and me first, and then include my wife? What do we talk about in the session? Where will it lead?
lostsunsets Posted April 10, 2009 Posted April 10, 2009 She will talk to you together the firs session. Then the next session she will talk to you individually. Then together again. You have to know this. Each person is responsible for their own sexuality. That means that you can have sex only as often as she wants. That's it. You will not be able to convince her. And the counselor won't be able to convince her. You can't guilt her into sex. And you wouldn't want to anyway. She has to believe something is wrong. If she doesn't counseling will do no good. That is why I suggested time away. Its a risk. Now the counselor maybe able to give you some tools to use for coping with her denying sex to you. But that is really as far as it goes. I think your wife feels chained up at a time when she thought she would be past child bearing. It doesn't matter that she wanted the baby. It matters because she would feel that way regardless. I think you have some serious talking to do. Before you make the counseling appointment. You need to find out whether she loves you and still wants to married. You have to not get angry. Or she will clam up. Ask her outright. Do you want to be married? No yelling. Ask her if she wants you to rent a room for a few weeks to figure out if she is committed to a life with you, or if she wants her freedom. Then you must tell her that you can't continue living this way. But you don't want to pressure her or put more demands on her. Maybe she is just not equipped for something as committed as marriage.
Untouchable_Fire Posted April 10, 2009 Posted April 10, 2009 Thanks, lostsunset. I have told her that, about man/women gauging marriage. Her response: 1) That's stupid. 2) If you don't like it, leave. 3) I love you. I'm sorry I disappoint you. 4) Stop being passive-aggressive about sex. The more you push, the less chance I'll want to have any sex at all. It's hard for me to raise topics with her, because she is very smart, talks fast, and debates/argues me/talks over me. She's say, "NO!". And then she'll point out 10 example, not all of them make sense. And then, I talk about one of the examples and get lost in it. Her decoys works. She is clearly an emotional fighter. You can't use logic on her... you have to address the root cause of her feelings. Honestly, I was married to a woman like this once. Any more advice from me is worthless, because it didn't turn out well. Also, she seems to have no respect for you.
lostsunsets Posted April 10, 2009 Posted April 10, 2009 What she will probably do is offer you grudge sex to get you to drop the subject. But that's not making love, right? Tell her its not that you don't love her. Tell her that you love her to much to settle for a mediocre marriage. You didn't feel mediocre when you married her and you don't feel mediocre now.
Untouchable_Fire Posted April 10, 2009 Posted April 10, 2009 Now what? What do I do in the session? What do I explain to the therapist? Do I set a meeting with just her and me first, and then include my wife? What do we talk about in the session? Where will it lead? You need to make a sales pitch to your wife! Tell her that you are doing this so that you can have a better marriage... that you are doing this so that YOU can learn to be a BETTER husband. The marriage counselor is to provide a conduit whereby your wife can tell you what she needs you to do. Also, make sure you tell her that you will help her wherever needed to alleviate the stress and anxiety of going to the marriage counselor away. If that means you do ALL the housework... then hop to it.
Author chezmatty Posted April 10, 2009 Author Posted April 10, 2009 Yes, she did. And, she was super-nice this morning and talked about how we could spend Saturday night doing something together. I'm convinced unless I really DO something, Saturday night will be O-K, and then things will go back to the usual, until it gets unbearable, and I get frustrated and we go round in a circle. (Should I mentioned that to her, specifically? Or, maybe not because then she'll say even when she's trying I complain and so there's no point.) I like the mediocre line. That may well work. I'm prepared to do ALL the housework, if necessary. It's not like there's a lot, anyway. It's mainly an excuse. I see what you mean about need to show that there is a problem. With the MC, at least I can find out why she isn't interested. Though in the past she has talked about her life/events before me with joy, I think she will say now that they were never really fun, and she's just not interested. "I like my job, I like our kid, I'm happy. Why can't you be happy, too? You have a problem you need to deal with. You need help...." Blah, blah, blah. She did say to me in the recent past something along the lines of, "we're all responsible for our sexuality." Then she talked about how I have a problem, how she doesn't have a problem, and I need to go figure myself out. I guess she just doesn't care. We'll, hopefully with the MC, I'll find out. What she will probably do is offer you grudge sex to get you to drop the subject. But that's not making love, right? Tell her its not that you don't love her. Tell her that you love her to much to settle for a mediocre marriage. You didn't feel mediocre when you married her and you don't feel mediocre now.
lostsunsets Posted April 10, 2009 Posted April 10, 2009 Yes, she did. And, she was super-nice this morning and talked about how we could spend Saturday night doing something together. I'm convinced unless I really DO something, Saturday night will be O-K, and then things will go back to the usual, until it gets unbearable, and I get frustrated and we go round in a circle. (Should I mentioned that to her, specifically? Or, maybe not because then she'll say even when she's trying I complain and so there's no point.) I like the mediocre line. That may well work. I'm prepared to do ALL the housework, if necessary. It's not like there's a lot, anyway. It's mainly an excuse. I see what you mean about need to show that there is a problem. With the MC, at least I can find out why she isn't interested. Though in the past she has talked about her life/events before me with joy, I think she will say now that they were never really fun, and she's just not interested. "I like my job, I like our kid, I'm happy. Why can't you be happy, too? You have a problem you need to deal with. You need help...." Blah, blah, blah. She did say to me in the recent past something along the lines of, "we're all responsible for our sexuality." Then she talked about how I have a problem, how she doesn't have a problem, and I need to go figure myself out. I guess she just doesn't care. We'll, hopefully with the MC, I'll find out. I pretty much knew that was the tact she would take. She confirmed what I said about being responsible for our own sexuality. But she is full of it, that there is something wrong with you. Take advantage of the situation on Saturday night. But you are right that it is not a true change. I would suggest that you make arrangements. You can rent a room. Believe me in this economy there are plenty of them around. It's like in Jerry Mcguire, when Rene Zewilliger says " I have this great guy. Who loves my son so much. And he really likes me alot". She didn't accept it. You shouldn't either. Life is to short to be married to some one who likes you. YOU DON'T MARRY SOME ONE YOU CAN LIVE WITH. YOU MARRY SOMEONE YOU CAN'T LIVE WITHOUT. She is throwing you a bone to put a bandaid on the situation. But that is not what marriage is about. Tell her you think she deserves more. And you know you do. *THIS IS IMPORTANT* EITHER YOU OR THE MC NEEDS TO ASK HER EXACTLY WHAT PERCENTAGE IS SHE COMMITTED TO THIS MARRIAGE. IT SOUNDS LIKE SHES IN FOR ABOUT 60%. She has to want this. If not. Find someone who is not worn out with life. IN FACT TELL HER THAT YOU THINK SHE IS WORN OUT WITH LIFE AND YOU'RE NOT. TELL HER ITS NOT ABOUT HER AGE. ITS ABOUT HER ATTITUDE. WORK ON THE SEPARATE PLACE. UNLESS SHE IS A MASCARA AND SNOT RUNNING MESS WHEN YOU TELL HER YOUR TAKING A BREAK, LIKE SHE SUGGESTED.
Mr. Lucky Posted April 11, 2009 Posted April 11, 2009 4) Stop being passive-aggressive about sex. The more you push, the less chance I'll want to have any sex at all. From our old friend Wikipedia: "Passive-aggressive behavior is passive, sometimes obstructionist resistance to following through with expectations in interpersonal or occupational situations. It can manifest itself as learned helplessness, procrastination, stubbornness, resentment, sullenness, or deliberate/repeated failure to accomplish requested tasks for which one is (often explicitly) responsible. It is a defense mechanism, and (more often than not) only partly conscious" Sounds like the pot calling the kettle black. As I read through your initial post, her behavior struck me as classic PA. Definitely a surprise when she tried to put that label on you. I'd say MC is your only chance. Let her pick the counselor, perhaps she'll be more willing to go. Otherwise, you have some very tough choices to make... Mr. Lucky
Author chezmatty Posted April 11, 2009 Author Posted April 11, 2009 Thanks for pointing that out about 'passive aggressive.' I hadn't thought of that...it's her, she's the one who's PA. Thanks all for the advice thus far. I'll keep you posted.
AnthonyF Posted April 11, 2009 Posted April 11, 2009 I commented on this in a previous post, so I'd only be repeating myself if I gave advise, but there are some things that have not been discussed..... There is an age gap 12 years and sorry to say and label, but she is what would be labeled a cougar.... and this certainly plays into the relationship whether you like it or not. You say she is divorced, you have a 3 year old, does she have kids from the previous marriage? This too could affect the relationship. She is 48, is she/has she gone through menopause? There is a reason they call it "men on pause":laugh:. Finally, and am not trying to be nasty, but you mention in the OP that she is smarter and much quicker then you when it comes to arguing/debating.... Is there also a disparity in salaries and assets? With the age difference this all plays in to the relationship dynamic.
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