sm0ked Posted April 7, 2009 Posted April 7, 2009 Sounds like I'm starting a discussion but I'm actually looking for insight into an ongoing situation I've found myself in. (My previous thread here details it!) What is it about "clinginess" that seems to drive boyfriends away? I'm hearing more and more about this, how guys feel "pushed away" by the way a girl acts, REacts, speaks or communicates (e.g. during a "talk", or emailing them during a rough patch). Personally I'm really bad at "talks". I get muddled up, react too quickly and usually cause more problems than can solve. -_- Also, I really don't know if I believe whether men can feel pushed away from a girl they're mad about... perhaps because I don't mind clingy? Or is it a lie because really, if you're trying to pull a guy closer, isn't that he's RUNNING away, not being pushed? So my questions are: 1. What sort of behaviour or things might you define as "clingy"? 2. Why/when might a man use the term "You're pushing me away"? 3. If a woman were to write an email/blog explaining her issues in a relationship, where is the line between demanding/accusing/angry/expectations/insecure/etc and constructive? Is it even possible to approach relationship issues using this method? [i can post one I wrote/sent a couple of months ago that really helped screw up my relationship ¬_¬ Looking back it's SO demanding and confusing, I think] 4. Is it possible for a guy who really likes a girl to distance himself from her (i.e. stand off, close off from) for any of the above reasons while he's abroad? Would LOVE to hear from guys about this, perhaps a take on one email I have sent, but all opinions valid and welcome. :] It's specific to long distance relationships.
Island Girl Posted April 7, 2009 Posted April 7, 2009 So my questions are: 1. What sort of behaviour or things might you define as "clingy"? Desperate acts. Whining and pathetic actions or statements. There is a way to convey a need for affection or affirmation without being perceived as clingy or "needy". 2. Why/when might a man use the term "You're pushing me away"? When he is feeling overwhelmed by a woman. Generally speaking this is when no matter what conversation is had or what action is taken he keeps getting the same thing brought up over and over again. Having been on the receiving end of "clingy" or "needy" behavior it feels like the other person is sucking the life out of you. Every conversation becomes a chore. It seems every single thing that is said or not said becomes an indicator for that person as to how I am feeling or what is happening in the relationship. An innocent comment or observation about a movie can suddenly be believed as to meaning something pertaining to the relationship. There is no breathing room. 3. If a woman were to write an email/blog explaining her issues in a relationship, where is the line between demanding/accusing/angry/expectations/insecure/etc and constructive? Is it even possible to approach relationship issues using this method? [i can post one I wrote/sent a couple of months ago that really helped screw up my relationship ¬_¬ Looking back it's SO demanding and confusing, I think] This is not isolated to women. Men can be in that same position and write an e-mail/blog that will get the same response of wanting to shut down and just stop the relationship altogether. Maybe if you post the e-mail you'll get some feedback about what could have been said better. Again, speaking generally, "demanding/accusing/angry/expectations/insecure/etc" statements would be filled with YOU YOU YOU and blanket statements of behavior whereas constructive statements would be more of an "I feel" vibe and an openness to solutions and compromise. 4. Is it possible for a guy who really likes a girl to distance himself from her (i.e. stand off, close off from) for any of the above reasons while he's abroad? It is possible for anyone to distance themselves from anyone else. This can happen for a variety of reasons. And the geographical distance just makes it that much easier. Would LOVE to hear from guys about this, perhaps a take on one email I have sent, but all opinions valid and welcome. :] It's specific to long distance relationships. sm0ked -- I have been on the receiving end of the needy clingy behavior in just about every relationship except my current one. I kind of created the monster myself in a lot of ways but that doesn't mean that the guys behavior didn't have anything to do with it. It generally was their response to situations and my behavior that started the whole screwed up mess which ended with me fleeing as far as I possibly could as fast as I possibly could. It was a shut down of the relationship. So it happens on both sides of the gender gap. I would think you would want more input from women as to how they may have put things that you wanted to say. Especially from those who are in successful relationships. They obviously have needs and clearly state them and get them met -- all the while not pushing away their husbands. Men communicate differently than women but that doesn't mean that we need to say things the same way they would to accomplish communication.
Author sm0ked Posted April 7, 2009 Author Posted April 7, 2009 Generally speaking this is when no matter what conversation is had or what action is taken he keeps getting the same thing brought up over and over again. Having been on the receiving end of "clingy" or "needy" behavior it feels like the other person is sucking the life out of you. Every conversation becomes a chore. It seems every single thing that is said or not said becomes an indicator for that person as to how I am feeling or what is happening in the relationship. I definitely think I am guilty of this. I get something in my head and just can't seem to relax without answers. But I become "a barrage of questions" (his words) and "repel" him, apparently. Stupid really because I'm not usually like this, as I may have mentioned in the thread I'm usually much stronger and less "high-maintenance". This is not isolated to women. Men can be in that same position and write an e-mail/blog that will get the same response of wanting to shut down and just stop the relationship altogether. Maybe if you post the e-mail you'll get some feedback about what could have been said better. Again, speaking generally, "demanding/accusing/angry/expectations/insecure/etc" statements would be filled with YOU YOU YOU and blanket statements of behavior whereas constructive statements would be more of an "I feel" vibe and an openness to solutions and compromise. Oh definitely. I know both genders are capable of acting this way, it's been a while since I was on the receiving end of a guy's accusing sort of blogs. I shouldn't have specified wanting guys' responses, but I've had a lot of feedback -mainly from women- and wondered if guys might give a different perspective, though I suppose it's more down to personality type/understanding than whether they have boobs or not. Silly of me. Both sides are important either way. I think I will post that email here. It's really cringy now I look at it, ughhh, but maybe if I get some scolding for I'll not EVER do it again. Doubt I will with the reaction it provoked. ¬_¬ I did that sort of thing with the last guy, not only the one I'm still fallen for [my other thread]. I knew it was bad the second I hit "send" despite being tipsy, and then stayed offline the following day, THEN noticed his display pics were a bit unusual (not of him, cartoons, "FU" heartsweet etc) Now I look at the email, it's just like you say "YOU YOU YOU" and the like. I feel awful, and childish. I would think you would want more input from women as to how they may have put things that you wanted to say. Especially from those who are in successful relationships. True. It would be nice to get an idea from other girls about how to ask a guy what's going on, or approach issues without going in "guns blazing" as I seem to. Also, it's noteworthy that I have never witnessed good communication or real affection between any couple I've known. Parents, sister and her dead-end relationship with an older guy. Perhaps this can contribute to clinginess or poor communication. I'm not sure.
Island Girl Posted April 7, 2009 Posted April 7, 2009 Also, it's noteworthy that I have never witnessed good communication or real affection between any couple I've known. Parents, sister and her dead-end relationship with an older guy. Perhaps this can contribute to clinginess or poor communication. I'm not sure. Could be. We mimic what we see until we (hopefully) learn otherwise. Where does your fear of abandonment come from?
Author sm0ked Posted April 7, 2009 Author Posted April 7, 2009 *Just looked over this and my own comments at the end of each paragraph are in Italic* Excuse the spelling/emotional retardation. I'm the first to admit I'm an i.d.i.o.t. for all that. Cringecringe. The email: It's getting hard to know where I stand with you. Some days you're all over me, wanting to talk to me on skype, sounding smitten or being horny... even though you told me we weren't properly together yet. Others you;re cold, like today you get back from disappearing for days after our little miscommunication and you poke me on Facebook or post on there, but ohai it's like I don't exist. The other week you didn't try talking foer almost a week after running off that night we argued about our past stuff, I had to talk to you first. For some reason those sorts of thingds irk me. Most would say if you like me, you'd want to talk to me after being away for a few days, and you'd want to spend time together - like we did before HK. Guess not. Seemed like the first thing on your mind today was linking videos on FB. Not sureh ow to take that. You said you were going to bed like a week ago and the reaosn I got mad when you tried talkingto me a bit later tht night is because I saw a bit later you changed your FB picture. -Demanding. Angry. Insecure. Expectation? Yeeah I could have said "hey", but you told me during space thing that you needed space to do other things, that I got "too serious too soon". On the contrast you said I should be more vulnerabl, that thats what errcouples do for each other, but the more I've done that the more closed off you seem. Or like that note I sent you with the packge, what good did that do? And then that 1st of Jan fb status thing you wrote in the midst of the space thing about thinkign I would dump yuo like last two grils. Just want you to be aware of the signals you give off, and kno wwhy I don't take iniatiative or respond to certain things [like your wanting me to help you get off, talking dirty], given the things you said to me. As much as like it, I'm an all or nothing sort of girl. Thoughgt you know that. So there's my reluctance/tension explained. I don't want to be a part time thing and lately it can seem that way. -Poor logic (too serious too soon) isn't contradiction to being vulnerable? Ambiguous, hung up on past issues? Withdrew from phone sex despite having participated even after he said we aren't proper until he gets back. Accused him of using me? Teased/rejected him? The hardest thing is when I say these things you say I'm not letting you be you. Well I'm not. I'm on your side with this stuff,bvelieve it or not. Its just fruistrating when you go from hot to cold, making it sound like we're together one day then the next I you act like I'm just a mate. Guess I know what mixed signals feel like now as I was toward you back when, but mine weren't intentional, so if this is something to do with how I was befire by somwhoe punishing me then point taken. Hard to know where your boiling point is but if I'm doing something that annoys you then I'd rather you SAY it in ca constructive way. -Accusing. Demanding.? Since it's nearly valentines, and tonight I'm a crazy wound up chick without bnoundaries then here it is. I like you, a lot.That gets soding scary. I love spendint time with you and i do want serious,, don't care what people might say. Don't seem right that I'm the only one saying thse things lately, so maybe I shouldn't keep wearing my jeart on my sleeve too fast. I feel stupid eniugh writing this. maybe I shouldn't send it, but I don't want to go through crap like before where I'm clueless and confused, never knowing where/waht I am. So I just want you to know these thigns. Guess I'm one of those people who need to say what the deal is sometims, having spent my life watching emptiness between parents, sister and her fella and everyone else i can think of. As you stopped with the affectionate stuff it made me realise how much I like it [from yuo]. Tell anyone and I'll deny it. Can't remember the last time yo called me babe or was just i dunno. Suppose I suck at bein ghta t way, yet here I am randomly vomitinhg my brains out. and ffs if you like me then GET me. -Demanding. Repeated "I want us to be serious again" thing? Overly emotional, disbelieving of his feelings (raise doubt). "Crap like before" is ambiguous, like, could mean "us" or refer to how we were before, OR he might think it's my nasty "ex". Made out that he was out to hurt me? Wanting affection despite rejecting it in the past, and still admitting I suck at it. I'm really stupidky drunk right now btw. else I'd not send this, and not sure how much I can keep trying. Now I'm gonna try sober up so I can regret sending it later if i do click send, 'cause this is all blurred. I'm sure you'll be sitting there confused thinking I'm being too clingy or whatever, but goiging with the flow is for rowers. F*** it was easier when you aproached thisns tuff. I'm hopeless at it. wonder if it sounded alright or dodgy but I can't tell right now,. -Seemed like alcohol gave me courage. "Regret" telling him how I feel, despite wanting him to do the same, basically. so there it is. id ont know what I just wrote. Any of it. So this is me. Im a handful. I just think some things are worth being seruis about. even the gay stuff. and now I'll maybe hide a bit or something because once I press send I'll probably feel bleh. No need to respond to it either cause i'm just laying my casrds on the table. Whatever the concsequences it all needed saying. Scaryor not how else can I let it out. -Being serious or not? Don't know what you wrote yet you seemed lucid despite drunkness. Serious about "gay stuff", so all that heartfelt stuff is "gay"? Hide, as though did something wrong? Happy ****ing Valentines gay. k wait it's the 12th but close enough. -More stupid non-seriousness maybe. ========= ^ Example of crazed sort of clinginess. In my brain, at the time, none of the other things occured to me. I didn't for a second get an idea of how he would interpret that, clouded by my own silly whims. Oh lord.
Author sm0ked Posted April 7, 2009 Author Posted April 7, 2009 Where does your fear of abandonment come from? Not entirely sure but in my experience guys tend to have very loose commitments. Guy friends have always just disappeared without warning, romantic interests end up confusing and eventually leaving or something. Men just don't seem reliable to me. The last guy [before this one I sent the email to] did a lot to mess with my head, I dunno where I'd begin. I think he's where a lot of my issues come from but part of me blames myself [a bit] for how that played out. I don't care though, not now I've met a guy who's a hundred times the person the "ex" could ever be. But alas... his ignoring me thing is just reopening old wounds, at least. I really care about this guy. Now it's like I'm losing/have lost him.
Els Posted April 7, 2009 Posted April 7, 2009 Sm0ked, I have the exact same problem as well. I just don't deal well with day-to-day fluctuations. With him being hot the one day and cold the next. It doesn't matter if the ratio of hot:cold is 10:1... I still hate the cold. And it still bugs me. I know I shouldn't make him feel that he's obligated to always be sensitive, romantic, always talk to me like I'm special... but those DRAUGHTS where there's barely any affection, where the conversations that we have could be had by two same sex buddies and not be out of place... it's hard to deal with them. I don't even know... is it me, am I being immature for expecting a fairytale every day? RL happens, and he's going through a rough spot right now. Or, instead, maybe he's making the mistake of taking me for granted, and if so, should I wake him up, perhaps by reminding him how hard it used to be to even get the chance to talk? I wish I had more answers, all I seem to come up with are questions of my own when I read your post. But I just wanted you to know that, I sorta know how you feel.
Island Girl Posted April 7, 2009 Posted April 7, 2009 *Just looked over this and my own comments at the end of each paragraph are in Italic* Excuse the spelling/emotional retardation. I'm the first to admit I'm an i.d.i.o.t. for all that. Cringecringe. ...... ^ Example of crazed sort of clinginess. In my brain, at the time, none of the other things occured to me. I didn't for a second get an idea of how he would interpret that, clouded by my own silly whims. Oh lord. So do you want a play by play or do you think you have come up with your own answers at this point? I can certainly go through and write what you were communicating differently if you'd like. And I think you know already that drunk e-mails are NEVER a good idea. Drunk dialing is bad enough but then at least there is some input from the other person to direct the conversation - or end it - and they'd know you were drunk during the conversation. Just chalk that one up to lesson learned, right?
Author sm0ked Posted April 7, 2009 Author Posted April 7, 2009 Sm0ked, I have the exact same problem as well. I just don't deal well with day-to-day fluctuations. With him being hot the one day and cold the next. It doesn't matter if the ratio of hot:cold is 10:1... I still hate the cold. And it still bugs me. ... I wish I had more answers, all I seem to come up with are questions of my own when I read your post. But I just wanted you to know that, I sorta know how you feel. Aww. I'm the same with the hot cold issue. It's definitely frustrating, perhaps that frustration is misplaced if we're aiming it at them. The funny thing is, in my case this guy was so affectionate to begin with, well, all through the two+ years I've known him. It seemed my reactions to the odd 1/10 days he began being less affectionate [after being deported] only aggravated him into feeling as though he were under pressure to act differently. Hopefully we can learn to gain self-control and understanding of us and our SO. So do you want a play by play or do you think you have come up with your own answers at this point? I can certainly go through and write what you were communicating differently if you'd like. Please do. I think my answers were only scratching the surface of what might have been going on in his mind. It would be interesting to see your version/take on that email, though. I know I definitely overdid it, it's horrible. I honestly regret hitting "send"
carhill Posted April 7, 2009 Posted April 7, 2009 OK, OP, say it to his face and then listen, really listen. Show empathy and caring. Nothing pisses me off more than a woman who dumps her shyte on you and then leaves you in a vacuum. Great way for her to hit the abyss pronto One piece of advice. Lose all the social networking stuff. Mature relationships take place in the real world, in the flesh. Relationships grounded in electrons stay as elusive as the electrons they're predicated upon. Since I'm busy today, I'll give you the short version: Kiss more, talk less...
EllieBean Posted April 7, 2009 Posted April 7, 2009 That email does sound a bit clingy and needy, and it also sounds like you're blaming and pressurising him. Here's my reading of it: The first paragraph says: I blame you for not letting me know where I stand, your hot/cold behaviour annoys me, and you have no right to be doing other things like posting on FB when you should be prioritising me. The second paragraph says: I'm trying really hard but you're just making things difficult and behaving badly, everyone says you should be treating me better, you make me feel bad. The third paragraph says: You're frustrating me and you're doing it on purpose, you're not being constructive at all. The fourth paragraph says: I'm crazy and I have no boundaries, everyone says I shouldn't be with you but I'm ignoring them. You're at fault for not wearing your heart on your sleeve. I'm one of those people who will constantly feel the need to pressure you like this, I have a bad history and I'm very needy, but if you tell anyone I'll play psycho and deny it. You don't get me at all. The fifth paragraph says: When I drink I get silly and emotional, I'm sick of trying, I'm not doing a good job of this and it's your fault because you should be handling it. The fifth paragraph says: I'm a handful, i have no idea what I'm going on about. I don't expect you to respond, I don't want to talk about this. And then you said Happy ****ing Valentines Day, which was very rude and sarcastic. I imagine your bf probably feels very annoyed and unhappy about that email, particularly because you're blaming him for everything and criticising his behaviour, and you're also making yourself sound unstable and needy. If I received an email like that I'd probably get all defensive and say: Whatever - I'm not going to stick around and be criticised by you, I don't like being pressured and everyone says you're better off without me anyway so I guess our relationship is over. The key thing about communication is: Don't blame the other person! Say how you feel, point out the behaviour you dislike but don't criticise the person themselves. Be constructive and say how you think the situation could be improved, don't just have a go at the other person. Don't be needy and clingy - make it clear that you aren't happy with the situation and you're prepared to work on it, but you're also prepared to move on if things don't change. And try to say some positive things too, to lessen the blow!
Island Girl Posted April 8, 2009 Posted April 8, 2009 Mature relationships take place in the real world, in the flesh. Relationships grounded in electrons stay as elusive as the electrons they're predicated upon. And on the telephone, and in "chat mode", etc. Whatever mode is available... Kiss more, talk less... All of us here in the LDR forum wish that was possible more than you know carhill. Unfortunately current geography keeps that from happening.
carhill Posted April 8, 2009 Posted April 8, 2009 There is this really cool machine called an airplane. I fly on it for cheap or free all the time. You can too LDR solved... BTW, I'll be in Memphis tomorrow to go camping with some friends for a week....anyone live in that area and want to catch up?
Island Girl Posted April 8, 2009 Posted April 8, 2009 There is this really cool machine called an airplane. I fly on it for cheap or free all the time. You can too LDR solved... A trip to see my SO is country to country approximately $3000 if expenses are kept to a bare minimum and that is a stay for 6 days. It is about 20 hours of travel each way. If you can explain how to get there for free I'D LOVE IT! We are one of those rare few (are there any others you guys?) who also have no access to computer chat or the like. It is phone (very expensive) or by mail. Thanks to some a really considerate poster here I will have a way next month to be able to talk by phone for $.32 a minute though! So I am excited! I just paid for a plane ticket to Fiji for my husband to complete his immigration interview. That wasn't cheap and neither were the attorneys paid to do all of his paperwork correctly (and the embassy still had issues with all of it). There are a few here who have an LDR within the boundaries of the U.S. or different countries in Europe, etc. which makes travel for them cheaper and a bit easier. But the poster that posted this thread is separated with one party in the UK and the other in Hong Kong. Unfortunately these kinds of circumstances do not lend themselves to just "hopping on a plane and sharing a long weekend" whenever the mood strikes. Sorry for the brief threadjack sm0ked but I thought the two posts deserved some sort of response.
carhill Posted April 8, 2009 Posted April 8, 2009 If you can explain how to get there for free I'D LOVE IT! I can, but it would be off-topic and exceedingly boring for most readers. Back in 2007, when we went to Australia four times, two of them were using miles (essentially "free") and one of those trips was international first class. Think of a hobby you enjoy and are passionate about and are really good at. For me, one of those hobbies is travel FWIW, back in the 90's, I flew a couple times to the FSU (Ukraine to be exact) to meet a couple ladies that I had corresponded with on the internet. Later, one of them flew out here to Cali and spent Thanksgiving with myself and my now wife. We've been in touch off and on over the interceding years. I'd have no problem going to visit them now, since visas are so much easier to get. Get on the plane, go to sleep and wake up in Eastern Europe Most folks use Skype for cheap phone calls overseas. I usually get a GSM cell phone or sat phone when I'm away for any length of time. LHR to HKG? No problem. Fly Turkish with a stop in Istanbul and it can be done for under 500 USD. If you prefer Sir Richard's airline (Virgin Atlantic), 622.00 and it's a non-stop. Remember, that's US dollars, not pounds sterling. What dates would they like ? Hey, I learned one way to be popular with the ladies is to arrange travel deals I
Author sm0ked Posted April 8, 2009 Author Posted April 8, 2009 I agree. Nice take on that, EllieBean. I really regret sending it, and any other things he may have seen. :( Not a lot I can do except learn from the way I've been and pray the guy forgives how crazy LDR makes me. Really want him back and hope he knows I know I'm a fool. >.> I also regret not going over to HK when the boy asked me to, several times. And he'd have arranged it all. ohmy. What a mess. But yes, all that is now beyond my control. I'm trying to overcome this annoying habit of mine to come across as err, well more needy than clingy.
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