sotired Posted April 5, 2009 Posted April 5, 2009 My sister is seeing a MM....He seems to be totally in love with her. They talk daily...go on trips together, etc. His wife is having an affair as well and hates him. She belittles him and tries to humiliate him in front of their friends and family. MM tells my sister almost daily that they are seperating soon. But it never happens. This has been going on for almost a year now and nothing changes. I try to be supportive because I know she loves him, but I think he is leading her on and has no intentions of leaving his wife. Thoughts?
sadintexas Posted April 5, 2009 Posted April 5, 2009 Sometimes they do and sometimes they don't. Based on what you said, I'd think it isn't very likely.
Author sotired Posted April 5, 2009 Author Posted April 5, 2009 I don't understand why people stay in miserable situations. They have seperate rooms at their house and he claims they haven't even kissed in 2 years. They have a kid together and he uses that as an excuse. Even though the environment with all the yelling such isn't exactly great to raise a child in. I feel so bad for her because it just doesn't even seem logical at this point. I think he just likes the abuse....But he always gives her a little shred of hope *sigh*
InvisibleGirl Posted April 5, 2009 Posted April 5, 2009 He is lying his wife is not having an affair that is a pity play to justify to your sister that it's ok to be involved with him. He's never leaving. Tell your sister to end it if she doesn't want to be the OW
Author sotired Posted April 5, 2009 Author Posted April 5, 2009 He isn't lying...(well about her affair at least..) She has been very public about it. There are pictures all over the internet. She has left her husband before and called her crying to come back...I think he's still in love and she's just staying because he makes the money. He's just using my sister for the comfort and friendship his wife won't give him. I don't have a very high opinion of him....but my sis defends him at every turn so I try to be somewhat positive. Never been in this situation so I don't know how "normal" this behavior is.
Chrome Barracuda Posted April 5, 2009 Posted April 5, 2009 If he wanted to leave...he would. Deep down inside he's probably feeling guilty for making your sister out to be the OW. If he isnt man enough to stand on his own why does your sister wants him. She shold tell him until he comes correct and becomes single then there is nothing to talk about, is there kids in the picture on his side. No one wants to be the bad guy destroying a marriage, how could your sister look herself in the mirror in the morning and not feel guilt for what she's doing. Let him be a single adjusted guy and let their relationship grow on it's own instead of being fostered in adultery. At least he can do that right? And yet again, maybe he just doesnt love your sister in that way...
Trimmer Posted April 5, 2009 Posted April 5, 2009 What he says: MM tells my sister almost daily that they are seperating soon. What he does: But it never happens. This has been going on for almost a year now and nothing changes. What counts?
OWoman Posted April 5, 2009 Posted April 5, 2009 My sister is seeing a MM....He seems to be totally in love with her. They talk daily...go on trips together, etc. His wife is having an affair as well and hates him. She belittles him and tries to humiliate him in front of their friends and family. MM tells my sister almost daily that they are seperating soon. But it never happens. This has been going on for almost a year now and nothing changes. I try to be supportive because I know she loves him, but I think he is leading her on and has no intentions of leaving his wife. Thoughts? My H was in a similar situation with his xW abusing him. They, too, lived separate lives. He did leave and we're now M. Sometimes it does happen. However it's impossible to say based on the information that you've provided whether this guy will leave or not.
whichwayisup Posted April 5, 2009 Posted April 5, 2009 This MM and his wife are BOTH getting the best of both worlds..Each have someone on the side and can still have the benefits of staying married (house, friends, lifestyle).. Sounds like NEITHER of them are planning on ending the marriage, so if your sister is OK being 'just' the OW, then this can last a very long time.. I would hope your sis wants more than this, so hopefully when she's had enough pain, she'll wake up and end it. All you can do is support her and be there for her when she needs you.. Or maybe ask her to come post here? Maybe she needs to sit and read what others have and are going through.
Montclair0011 Posted April 5, 2009 Posted April 5, 2009 I was in a similar situation and the guy filed for divorce and left, only to move back in a short period of time. It was like a horse going back in a burning barn. When I had first meet him he was separated because of issues over the wife having an affair. He moved back because of the kid and I broke up with him because I did not want any part of being an OW. He cried and said they had agreed that the marriage was over and he just needed to try to work it out amicably with her so she would not prevent him from seeing his child (she threatened all kinds of horrible things but it was all BS). Anyway, I was patient for a short time because he rented an apartment and went to see a lawyer to arrange for the divorce. Anyway, here are some thoughts about possible warning signs of a guy who will not leave even if the woman is truly a cheating witch (which is not always the case but I saw enough evidence to know it was true for my situation). 1) Is he a wimp, or the kind of guy who acts on the world or just lets things happen to him (more passive?). Passive guys are less likely to leave. 2) Does he have supportive friends, or better, yet a therapist? Guys with a therapist are more likely to leave a bad situation. Guys with firends might also if the firends think the marriage is toxic. 3) Is he cheap about money? Guys who make a lot of money but spend little are more likely to be tramutized by the financial loss of divorce. I'm sure there are more but that's all I can think of now.
carhill Posted April 5, 2009 Posted April 5, 2009 My H was in a similar situation with his xW abusing him. They, too, lived separate lives. He did leave and we're now M. Sometimes it does happen. However it's impossible to say based on the information that you've provided whether this guy will leave or not. Yes, each situation is different and anything is possible. IME, a man balances fear versus his passion about himself and his life. The fear is fear of change, fear of loss, fear of his status (all important issues to a man). Someone mentioned therapy and friends. I would tend to agree that psychological help (if desired) and a strong support network can assist a man in making a balanced decision and acting on it. IME, I was most inclined to remain in the status quo when I felt alone and isolated. For the OP, my advice to her sister would be to set a firm timeline for herself (to consider MM as a potential) and to actively remain single and available. Consider the MM as one option of many. Take her love and spread it around
Author sotired Posted April 5, 2009 Author Posted April 5, 2009 Thanks for all of the replies. He is very passive and doesn't want a lot of drama. Montclair...It sounds almost exactly like your situation! He says it's over, he just needs time so she doesn't take the kid, etc. Gets really emotional over the thought of her leaving even though he constantly tells her not to wait for him. He has no backbone, evidenced by the way his wife walks all over him and he refuses to even stand up for himself. I just don't understand how anyone would be attracted to a man that can't even take care of himself emotionally...but anyway I appreciate the info!
carhill Posted April 5, 2009 Posted April 5, 2009 Armchair psychology indicates sister is attracted to his potential and "with the love of the right woman" he will reach that potential and she can take credit for it, and him. Perhaps a bit tough to hear, but that's my take. I've lived the male side of it (falling in love with a woman's "potential") and know how the process works. Not healthy
wildsoul Posted April 5, 2009 Posted April 5, 2009 For the OP, my advice to her sister would be to set a firm timeline for herself ... Ack! I wrote out a well-considered reply, but after I clicked save, I got a message that the server was undergoing maintainence. GONE! And pressing "back" on this forum only takes you to an empty comment box--no trace of what you wrote a moment before. Bottom line: Agree with carhill, and want to add that asking about what HE is going to do or not do, is the least empowering position for her. It puts her in the role of "lady in waiting," and it really is anxiety-producing. Slowly, it also feels degrading. And the decision to stay or go only gets bigger the more time one invests. Better for her to get in touch with her own INNER-timeline. Not necessarily a demand for him, but one for her by which she will force herself to leave if he's not moved out.
bentnotbroken Posted April 5, 2009 Posted April 5, 2009 It seems your sister knows what she has gotten herself into, isn't she big enough to deal with the drama?
Montclair0011 Posted April 5, 2009 Posted April 5, 2009 Carhill & Sotired, I can't speak for the sister, but I can perhaps shed some light on the attraction to a passive, guy. In my case, after being married to a domineering rageaholic control freak for so many years, it was a peaceful relief to be with someone who was quiet and nice for a change. Also, we conected on a deep level because he had also been abused and knew what it was like to live walking around on eggshells and to allow oneself to be treated like a doormat. He understood what I had been though. I had thought that by being together and being nice to each other we both would be able to heal from our previous toxic relationships. But it was not to be and one of the most surprising elements turned out to be the reaction of the wife when she found out her husband (whom she had told many times that no one whould ever want him) had found someone who liked him. She did a 180 degree turn and broke up with the boyfriend and started proclaiming her love and devotion. She promised to change and be nice if he would only come back and the child was begging him to just give mom another chance, etc. I've only spoken to him once since the breakup (weak moment) and it sounded like she was mostly back to her old self. But he was so releived to be rid of the tension and was contentedly resigned to his familiar loveless marriage. At least that's what he told me and I'm not planning on calling back for an update. Anyway, when I came on LS, it was because of soemone who had yet another similar situation and outcome so don't be surprised if the sisters MM's W does the same as I am describing here. Your sister would do best to remain unknown to the W for as long as possible--through the divorce would be best. Based on my experience, I don't give this relationship a great chance for sucess, but I would suggest the sister try the following strategies to increase her chances. 1) Insist the MM get an individual therapist. Without a therapist I think it's hopeless (my guy got one, but too late in the game and he did not go enough--still I don't think he would have moved out at all were it not for the therapist). If possible, help him find a good one with psychodynamic training and approach rather than behavioral. 2) Insist that the MM rent an apartment so he has a place to go when he leaves even if he's not yet ready. 3) Insist that the MM see a divorce lawyer and discuss what his options are the procedure to follow, and what his situtation will be like post-divorce. 4) Have a timeline for all of these milestones and figure out a reasonable limit for them. Passive guys do take longer than most to make changes so I would cut her some slack if he does not run out and accomplish 1-3 right away. Still, if he does not make visible progress on these tasks, than I'd say forgetaboutit and cut off with NC and move on.
fooled once Posted April 6, 2009 Posted April 6, 2009 Doesn't sound like he has any plans to leave his wife. I don't buy the BS people spew about wanting to leave a marriage. If you want to leave a marriage, then LEAVE it. Yes it is hard, yes it hurt and yes it is scary. I divorced my ex and we had a child (the divorce had nothing to do with an affair). I didn't claim for years I was going to divorce him. I made a decision and followed through. For me personally, I can't stand weak men. I would just let your sister live in her fantasy world and not get caught up in all her drama.
Author sotired Posted April 6, 2009 Author Posted April 6, 2009 Montclair...Thank you for that list. That is very helpful and hopefully will give her a strategy and be able to figure out his true feelings. My sister is young and naive. I'm not really trying to get in her drama but she always tries to talk to me about it and tries to get advice. I haven't really known what to tell her until now. I hope she'll be able to see everything for what it is now....and if not, I'll support her and be there for the fallout Thanks everyone!
Circe Posted April 6, 2009 Posted April 6, 2009 Just in general -- men are quite lazy about making changes in their primary relationships. There are probably lots of reasons why it's not in his best interest to get out of his marriage. Women seem to be very concerned with the quality of the interpersonal relationship they maintain with their spouses. Men, not so much. It's within the realms of possibility that his wife is cheating on him and he doesn't care that much as long as he has his piece on the side too. I think the statistics say that roughly 2 out of 3 divorces are intiated by women. And there also seems to be a lot of evidence that men get a lot more out of being married than women do, just in general. Women constantly make the mistake of assuming that if the wife is a B, or apathetic to his needs, or whatever, that it must mean the man is ready to get out. Not necessarily. Men and women get married and stay married for very different reasons. Try to pry a man away from his marriage and you'll end up with sore fingers and broken nails.
Montclair0011 Posted April 7, 2009 Posted April 7, 2009 Valid observations, Circe. Good thing to bear in mind when getting involved with a married or separated guy. There are exceptions though, and unfortunately my husband was one of those (he was not a passive guy and had 1-3 on my list above). sotired, I hope things work out for your sister. Please keep us updated.
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