Letting go of "the one"

[sockpuppet]

Everyone always gives the same advice when it comes to moving on and feeling like you were really meant to be with the one you lost, and I understand why...but when it comes to my current situation, every fiber of me being tells me that my ex and I were supposed to be together.

 

I may have put her up on a pedestal, but the way I remember our relationship, I have not. I wholeheartedly believe the relationship was every bit as amazing as I remember it to be.

 

I don't know how to forgive myself for destroying that, for hurting her so badly (this was a while ago and it still hurts), and acting in such a way that it just wasn't me, and she and I both knew that but she finally gave up.

 

I find myself wondering how my ex moved on. She said she hated me for a while- which I'm still trying to understand. Did she hate me because it helped her rationalize moving on? Because I hurt her so badly and she resented me for it?

 

I guess what I'm really afraid of is that she and I remember our relationship differently. I've posted about this before, but she and I both had agreed it was a monumental experience in both of our lives, living abroad and traveling together. I look to that time of my life as a defining part of who I am, and by association she's part of it. When she recently was able to act so detached towards me, I found myself questioning how much our relationship really meant. It scares me to think it doesn't mean as much to her, that in her mind it wasn't really so great, or that even that it was a mistake and she didn't really love me like she thought she did..or that she regrets it.

 

I shouldn't care what she thinks, but I do. I feel like if she sees our past even a little bit like I do, she'd have at least felt something for me recently (or admitted to feeling something). Part of me also feels pathetic- if she sees what I thought was a near-perfect, absolutely amazing relationship that I screwed up as a huge mistake, or just "another notch on her belt" then I feel like I'm the fool and it reflects poorly on me.

 

I can't convey how RIGHT it felt being with her, and how WRONG I felt when it was over. So wrong that nothing has gone right in the 2 years since. I keep asking myself, "how can't she love me still after that?" Even if I understand her not wanting to be with me, it blows my mind that she wouldn't even care. She fell harder than me, faster than me, yet I'm the one still trying to pick up the pieces. How do you let go of an experience like that without convincing yourself to hate the person? Do I have to force myself to think the relationship wasn't as great as I thought?

[monkeymaid]

wow just wow. ....i have the same remorse and hope that you do. when you figure this whole thing out let me know because im only 4 months into the process and when ever i feel 99%better i get knocked flat on my ass and have to start over i hope everything works out in your favor. ...and honestly, for the best, not just the way you want it to. sometimes we cant always see what the best thingh is, and must walk our path to figure it out.

[9Lives]

I think you have to chalk it up to two words

 

Lesson learned

Sometimes we dont have control of the outcome of a relationship. We wanted it....we made mistakes. We wanted to make it work but for reasons...it did not. The question is WHAT DID YOU LEARN.

 

The man i love is no longer in my life and I have learned alot about MYSELF. I see where I turned left when I should have turned right. I see where I should have handled things different. I am not saying it was my fault. I wanted our love to last but he was not totally on board with that. I let go but I still think about him all the time. I did learn about boundaries. I learn that a woman has a place and she needs to stay in her place. There were times when I was anxious and moved too fast when I should have been patient and waited for him to make a step instead of making pushing to keep the relationship alive. I finally realize that I needed to slow down and let us both make moves instead of trying to row the boat on my own. I moved too fast sometimes cause I wanted it now to be everything I wanted it to be.

 

We still care for each other but we are not together anymore.

[Biker2007]

Sock,

 

I can't convey how RIGHT it felt being with her, and how WRONG I felt when it was over. So wrong that nothing has gone right in the 2 years since.

 

This pretty much sums up my life the last 1.5 years...I wish I had something more than empathy to offer. I have distanced myself from most people while living a self imposed "monk" lifestyle. Every woman that I dated soon after the break up w/ my X just did not measure up. I knew I was not doing anybody any favors, so I have just tried to learn from my mistakes and work on being a better communicator.

 

What was your mistake or how did you supposedly hurt your X?

[soulseeker]

I'm sorry to hear that you are going through this, SP. I'm going to share something with you that I found extremely helpful: You cannot make someone love you, no matter how much you love them. So by default, if they dont love you, they were not the one. I know it's sad and difficult, but there it is.

 

You've already wasted 2 years waiting for this to work out? This means you have been closed off from meeting the true love of your life for 2 years. Please dont waste anymore time on someone who has moved on with no intention of being with you. If you need to hate her for now, that's ok.

[Ronni_W]

I don't know how to forgive myself for destroying that, for hurting her so badly ... Did she hate me because it helped her rationalize moving on? Because I hurt her so badly and she resented me for it?

We fall out of love with people who hurt us "so badly". Initially, hate, resentment and similar emotions are the mind-body's natural defenses and antidotes to the pain we are feeling.

 

Over time, our pain lessens and we don't need those defenses and antidotes anymore. We stop hating. But, the majority of time, we don't fall back in love with that person. Our "in love" feelings were exhausted and depleted. We might still care, but we also recognize that expressing that or acting on it leaves us vulnerable to more of the same kind of pain we've already had to overcome once.

 

At the end of any relationship, it really doesn't matter who chased whom, or who fell harder and faster. It only matters who got hurt, and that they chose to do what they felt was necessary to stop the pain.

I guess what I'm really afraid of is that she and I remember our relationship differently. ... I look to that time of my life as a defining part of who I am, ... I found myself questioning how much our relationship really meant. It scares me to think it doesn't mean as much to her

The "mental error" is your desire and/or expectation that SHE must share your experience and perspective about the relationship.

 

It will NOT be the same for her because she came into it a different person than you were. She had her own, unique set of goals, perspectives, needs, beliefs, attitudes, ideas, opinions, prior experiences, strengths, weaknesses, purpose, preferences, etc., etc.

It CANNOT be the same for her, because of all of that. She isn't you, and she's not even an extension of you.

 

(I know that's a no-brainer. But, when we want others to think and feel and perceive exactly as we do, it's that we are forgetting that the other person is a separate person.)

 

For you, the relationship and your experiences were exactly how you remember it. They were exactly as meaningful as you say.

And SHE gets to put HER meaning to it; and remember it how she remembers it.

You are BOTH self-determining organisms, each in your own right and authority.

I shouldn't care what she thinks, but I do. I feel like if she sees our past even a little bit like I do, she'd have at least felt something for me recently (or admitted to feeling something). Part of me also feels pathetic- if she sees what I thought was a near-perfect, absolutely amazing relationship that I screwed up as a huge mistake, or just "another notch on her belt" then I feel like I'm the fool and it reflects poorly on me.

It's not so much that you shouldn't care what she thinks. But caring about it is detrimental because you have no influence, power or control over it.

 

So, it really would be more helpful for you to get to the bottom of WHY you are thinking what YOU think. That is, what are the inaccurate beliefs and "mental errors" that your brain is processing? THOSE are the things that are causing you to feel guilty and preventing you from finding self-forgiveness.

 

Again, it is a "mental error" to think/believe that somebody else's thoughts, memories and perspectives are related to you in any way. (Putting one's self in the centre of everything that's going on around the Self is part of a narcissistic tendency.) In reality, how she sees her time with you does NOT reflect on you at all. It only reflects HER experiences.

 

 

It can feel complicated. And it sucks. And even when we become aware of our misguided beliefs and unrealistic expectations, it still is a major task to get it all sorted out. For all of that, I found cognitive therapy to be extremely useful.

 

Hugs, and best of luck.

[wish]

Sock,

I'm going through the exact same phase. Its just been 4 months...my ex actually found a guy in less than a week of the break up. And she is happy and well with him. The same feeling still haunt me....how can she love someone esle when the whole thing was just perfect. 3 years of living together and now shes in a new place with new love. So did she ever love me? I don't know. Even though logic says it loud that she is not th right person (the very fact she jumped into another serious relationship so soon)...there is always a remorse about what could be. The best way to deal with it i guess is let the pain sink in. There is nothing more that can be done i guess. Hang in there...we all are.

[sockpuppet]

I think you have to chalk it up to two words

 

Lesson learned

Sometimes we dont have control of the outcome of a relationship. We wanted it....we made mistakes. We wanted to make it work but for reasons...it did not. The question is WHAT DID YOU LEARN.

 

The man i love is no longer in my life and I have learned alot about MYSELF. I see where I turned left when I should have turned right. I see where I should have handled things different. I am not saying it was my fault. I wanted our love to last but he was not totally on board with that. I let go but I still think about him all the time. I did learn about boundaries. I learn that a woman has a place and she needs to stay in her place. There were times when I was anxious and moved too fast when I should have been patient and waited for him to make a step instead of making pushing to keep the relationship alive. I finally realize that I needed to slow down and let us both make moves instead of trying to row the boat on my own. I moved too fast sometimes cause I wanted it now to be everything I wanted it to be.

 

We still care for each other but we are not together anymore.

 

God knows I learned a lot. The whole ordeal has made me much wiser, but up until now I'm still so burdened by my guilt, shame, regret, love for her, and overall sense of loss that looking forward without her is really, really difficult.

 

The guy I was when I was with her was exactly who I wanted to be, but ironically the guy I turned into was a pretty terrible one at the end. It's helped a lot reading posts by others that express how I feel- those who feel like they haven't been the same since losing them.

 

I know I need to work more on being happy on my own. I need to forgive myself, I need to forgive her, and I need to accept how things played out. What's so frustrating is that I literally feel like I left a part of my heart and myself with in Russia (Я оставил мои сердце в Россие ) with her/us. The tender, happy, loving, carefree part of me that looks at people uncritically and love uncynically.

 

Sock,

 

 

 

This pretty much sums up my life the last 1.5 years...I wish I had something more than empathy to offer. I have distanced myself from most people while living a self imposed "monk" lifestyle. Every woman that I dated soon after the break up w/ my X just did not measure up. I knew I was not doing anybody any favors, so I have just tried to learn from my mistakes and work on being a better communicator.

 

What was your mistake or how did you supposedly hurt your X?

 

I've written in depth about this in other threads, but I'll condense it.

 

Early on I found out she'd slept with more people before me than I was comfortable with. I got very insecure, thought that I meant less to her, or I wasn't good enough, or something. Those feelings translated to me thinking there was something wrong with her. It's ironic that a month before she and I first hooked up I had my first one-night stand with a girl in our study abroad group (second night in the country) and was "that guy."

 

I started by asking her more details thinking if I understood I'd accept it. These conversations obviously hurt her a lot, but we still fell hard for each other and had a LOT of fun living in Russia for 9 months and traveling to Italy (road trip through Tuscany), Vienna, Prague, and Estonia together. I've literally done everything with her I've ever dreamed of doing with anyone. We hung out in Boston on New Years Eve, I taught her to snowboard, we went boating and fishing and whale watching and my family loved her, even my dad (which is unusual) and she loved them.

 

Anyways, once we got back from Russia it became a long distance thing and the little cracks the insecurity had started grew to fissures. I came back to school and barely knew anyone in my city, and my issues with her got really bad. I loved her but I felt like I needed to "make up" for whatever I felt like I was lacking. I made her dissect her past to the point that she many times felt like she wasn't good enough for me, like I'd never accept her, and she'd said that she hated her past for causing problems with us. Finally I broke up with her, and when I finally felt like I'd grounded myself again, it was too late and she couldn't trust me anymore.

 

That was a lot longer than I meant it to be. I wrote all that to emphasize that this was literally a storybook romance that I didn't think existed. All couples had issues but ours were negligible. We spent more time together than anyone should and never got sick of it. Everyone who saw us together remarked on how amazing our dynamic was. The knowledge that I not only screwed it up, but methodically became a different person and a cruel one is so terrible that I've convinced myself I'm a ****ty person and I don't deserve love like what she gave me.

 

Thank you for all your responses, it's good to know others understand what this feels like.

[Ronni_W]

I'm still so burdened by my guilt, shame, regret, love for her, and overall sense of loss

Those are some of the reasons that got me to therapy, too. As mentioned above, cognitive therapy really helped me find broader and more self-affirming perspectives. For loss, of course there is also grief counseling.

All couples had issues but ours were negligible.

Not for her, was it "neglible". She ended up feeling ashamed of who she was, unaccepted and not worthy. That isn't "neglible".

methodically became a different person and a cruel one is so terrible that I've convinced myself I'm a ****ty person and I don't deserve love

You absolutely are totally lovable and acceptable, and worthy of being accepted and receiving love! You were born that way. (And, if you can feel and give love and compassion, then you also are worthy of receiving it.)

 

The way you acted was YOUR defense and antidote to feeling insecure. It actually just makes you a normal human being who made some crappy decisions and acted in some crappy ways...just like every other normal human being has done.

 

Sometimes, it's that we just need to forgive ourselves for being human...which can be tough to do, depending on our self-image and maladaptive coping strategies. (When you're ready, you may want to check the '52 forgiveness emails' offered for free at WithForgiveness.com. I'm on Day 3, and finding it quite valuable.)

[sockpuppet]

Those are some of the reasons that got me to therapy, too. As mentioned above, cognitive therapy really helped me find broader and more self-affirming perspectives. For loss, of course there is also grief counseling.

 

Not for her, was it "neglible". She ended up feeling ashamed of who she was, unaccepted and not worthy. That isn't "neglible".

 

You absolutely are totally lovable and acceptable, and worthy of being accepted and receiving love! You were born that way. (And, if you can feel and give love and compassion, then you also are worthy of receiving it.)

 

The way you acted was YOUR defense and antidote to feeling insecure. It actually just makes you a normal human being who made some crappy decisions and acted in some crappy ways...just like every other normal human being has done.

 

Sometimes, it's that we just need to forgive ourselves for being human...which can be tough to do, depending on our self-image and maladaptive coping strategies. (When you're ready, you may want to check the '52 forgiveness emails' offered for free at WithForgiveness.com. I'm on Day 3, and finding it quite valuable.)

 

You're right of course about the way my issues made her feel, I was referring to anything and everything outside of that though.

 

I just can't see how she could see me like any other friend now, after all that. I understand why she practically hated me for a while after we broke up, and that kind of thing probably would've helped me get over her if i could bring myself to do it. Last weekend's visit with her really screwed with my head (see other thread about it). With that kind of history, I don't know what she was thinking inviting me out knowing I still had feelings. And instead of handling it powerfully I did it the exact same way I would've done when we were dating. I keep wanting to prove to her (and myself) I'm more the guy I was when we started dating than when we broke up, but I keep failing at it.

 

I forget if I already wrote this, but I feel like letting her and our history abroad together go as just "another experience" and stop looking at it the way I do now, then I'm giving up a huge piece of who I am and taking away from how significant it was, for both of us. Even though she already seems to act that way.

 

Edit: I was offended recently when she didn't even try to use me for a hook up. I know that sounds terrible, but that would've explained her inviting me out, hehe. Yea, I would've taken some unhealthy validation from that, but the fact that she just slept with her back to me sucked! Then again, I didn't really try anything. I just keep thinking, "if she wanted me out here, how can she not feel even a spark after being deeply in love with me a couple years ago?"

[Ronni_W]

I feel like letting her and our history abroad together go as just "another experience" and stop looking at it the way I do now, then I'm giving up a huge piece of who I am and taking away from how significant it was

I do get where you're coming from but it still is subject to a mental error [because] Leaving your experience in the past does NOT negate what you got out of it. You STILL get to keep how significant it was for you, and you STILL get to choose how you want it to shape your current self-image and perspective.

 

But as I said way above, it is detrimental for you to want to determine or 'control' the level of significance that she chooses to place on all of it -- that is totally up to her to do, and doesn't have anything to do with you.

Her major significance really could be how much it ended up hurting her. SHE has to live with that. (And, kind of, you'll just have to accept that that is her final view of it.) NOT, of course, that it is her view, but IF it is, then it is...and nothing you can do, think or say is going to change it...your attempts to try to change it will only lead to your self-induced guilt, self-defeat and self-disappointment. Yes?

 

Another thing you can try is: Let's say you DO succeed in "proving" to her that you're the same guy she met...then what?

 

And. What would you have to do, to prove it to yourself that you're the same guy?

 

Also, you say it helped to define you -- what are the words that you apply to your self-definition, though? That is, what are the values by which you are currently defining yourself?

 

I was referring to anything and everything outside of that though.

If I put myself in her shoes, there is likely NOTHING outside of how she ended up feeling that is as important and significant TO HER.

Sort of, you are denying/ignoring HER experience in favour of your own, which was "neglible issues." Again, it is a narcissistic view because it does not allow her to have a different (her personal) feeling and perspective, which very well could be "MAJOR issues."

[sockpuppet]

I do get where you're coming from but it still is subject to a mental error [because] Leaving your experience in the past does NOT negate what you got out of it. You STILL get to keep how significant it was for you, and you STILL get to choose how you want it to shape your current self-image and perspective.

 

But as I said way above, it is detrimental for you to want to determine or 'control' the level of significance that she chooses to place on all of it -- that is totally up to her to do, and doesn't have anything to do with you.

Her major significance really could be how much it ended up hurting her. SHE has to live with that. (And, kind of, you'll just have to accept that that is her final view of it.) NOT, of course, that it is her view, but IF it is, then it is...and nothing you can do, think or say is going to change it...your attempts to try to change it will only lead to your self-induced guilt, self-defeat and self-disappointment. Yes?

 

Yea, you're completely correct there. When we first broke NC and she contacted me last August, it was to tell me she forgave me for all of it, and wanted to get that off her chest. Soon after that when we hung out, she was saying things like, "I don't even remember the specific arguments we had anymore," and "I understand a little better what you were going through." She went on to say how her mom and friends joked that, "I wasn't that bad" in light of her recent ex, the guy she dated right after me.

 

After this visit, I felt great. Her forgiveness felt a lot and helped me towards forgiving myself. This is when she invited me on a x-country road trip and was going out of her way to contact me more. I was very vindicated, or validated, however you want to look at it. As time went on I lost confidence and started coming on way too strong. I think that as soon as I started demonstrating my old neurotic behavior she realized she wasn't ready for anything with me yet.

 

Another thing you can try is: Let's say you DO succeed in "proving" to her that you're the same guy she met...then what?

 

Well, it's about proving it to myself too. Then what? Well ideally part of me wants to try again with her, without me demoralizing her and being so insecure with her past. I'm not saying it's entirely rational to want to "prove" that to her, just saying it's a drive of mine, and the issue of "redemption" is probably a big thing with me that goes deeper than my experience with her.

 

And. What would you have to do, to prove it to yourself that you're the same guy?

 

This could be with, or without her even though I'm trying to apply it to my interactions with her. I used to be pretty self assured, happy, accepting of others. Surely not neurotic or overly analytical (the last two have persisted and made me miserable). I want to stop that behavior and the feelings that cause it.

 

Also, you say it helped to define you -- what are the words that you apply to your self-definition, though? That is, what are the values by which you are currently defining yourself?

 

That's hard to put into words. Being abroad for a year itself can be tough, but being in Russia was even tougher, a lot of people couldn't cut it. In that time I was able to overcome a lot of personal obstacles I'd had and lived more courageously and without regrets...until the issues with her past started of course.

 

If I put myself in her shoes, there is likely NOTHING outside of how she ended up feeling that is as important and significant TO HER.

Sort of, you are denying/ignoring HER experience in favour of your own, which was "neglible issues." Again, it is a narcissistic view because it does not allow her to have a different (her personal) feeling and perspective, which very well could be "MAJOR issues."

 

Yea, I get what you're saying. Her reaction to me would be something like, "Who are YOU to tell me how I should feel, when you broke my heart first?"

 

That's not what I was trying to say, though. She said herself many times that she often wondered if I was creating and perpetuating those issues because we literally had nothing else to fight or argue about. We clashed over little things but you would've thought that living together there'd be more disharmony than there was.

 

I get the overall theme of what you're trying to say...when I respond I'm not disagreeing just trying to get deeper into how I feel.

[playlislay]

Listen dude, my response may be immature and not to everyones taste, but I feel that if you love someone then whats the harm in trying? What do you honestly have to lose other than a lifetime of regret?

 

Write a heart felt letter. Dont expect her to reply (this will make it easier in the long run) and dont expect a nice reply. Expecting a letter of her decleration of her love for you is not healthy, not healthy at all. Just see it as an opportunity that you must take in order to not feel regret in later life.

 

I think if you try once and dont succeed then that gives you the all clear in your heart and head that it wasnt meant to be and that you can now freely move on with no regrets.

 

Live, love, learn.

 

Good luck!

[sockpuppet]

Listen dude, my response may be immature and not to everyones taste, but I feel that if you love someone then whats the harm in trying? What do you honestly have to lose other than a lifetime of regret?

 

Write a heart felt letter. Dont expect her to reply (this will make it easier in the long run) and dont expect a nice reply. Expecting a letter of her decleration of her love for you is not healthy, not healthy at all. Just see it as an opportunity that you must take in order to not feel regret in later life.

 

I think if you try once and dont succeed then that gives you the all clear in your heart and head that it wasnt meant to be and that you can now freely move on with no regrets.

 

Live, love, learn.

 

Good luck!

 

I don't think that's necessarily bad advice. However she recently told me in our last string of communication that she doesn't see us dating in the future, and that was in response to my telling her that a friendship with her would probably involve me wanting more, since I still cared a lot for her. So with that in mind, I doubt any more professions of how I feel will help me.

[Adri Ana]

Why do u need to force yourself change your views on your relationship ?

Why do u at all feel like that ?

 

Just move on . Yes,I know,you have heard it a lot ,

but listen, you are so much concentrating on something that Passed,

it`s useless to say the least . Just move on .

 

Live,learn,love .

[norajane]

When she recently was able to act so detached towards me, I found myself questioning how much our relationship really meant. It scares me to think it doesn't mean as much to her, that in her mind it wasn't really so great, or that even that it was a mistake and she didn't really love me like she thought she did..or that she regrets it.

I'm sure she does regret it - you ended up making her feel terrible about herself AND then you dumped her on top of it. Absolutely she regrets that even if the relationship before then was good. How you treated her toward the end spoiled, tarnished, and tainted what came before.

 

I understand that you don't want to hear that, but it's very likely the truth. If she's forgiven you, she doesn't carry that regret around with her every day like you do. But at the end of your relationship, that's how she felt. And since she's moved on, whatever the good was in the relationship and whatever it meant to her, is all in the past.

 

Consider having the car of your dreams and loving it and enjoying it. And then it starts having problems and is always leaving you at the side of the road waiting for a tow truck. And then one day you get in a wreck and the frame is bent and the car is totaled because a bent frame is not something that can be fixed. The integrity of the car has been compromised and would no longer be safe even if you tried to repair it. It's done, it's gone, you have no choice. And even though you loved it, it also was a big thorn in your side because it became unreliable and a big pain. What do you remember? The great ride? All those times it left you stranded? Both?

 

That's how she feels about you. It may have been a great ride while it lasted, but the integrity of your relationship was compromised and you are no longer safe for her to be with. And you tarnished the good things by turning into someone who made her feel bad about herself. You gave her no choice but to move on. It's done, it's gone.

[sockpuppet]

I'm sure she does regret it - you ended up making her feel terrible about herself AND then you dumped her on top of it. Absolutely she regrets that even if the relationship before then was good. How you treated her toward the end spoiled, tarnished, and tainted what came before.

 

I understand that you don't want to hear that, but it's very likely the truth. If she's forgiven you, she doesn't carry that regret around with her every day like you do. But at the end of your relationship, that's how she felt. And since she's moved on, whatever the good was in the relationship and whatever it meant to her, is all in the past.

 

Consider having the car of your dreams and loving it and enjoying it. And then it starts having problems and is always leaving you at the side of the road waiting for a tow truck. And then one day you get in a wreck and the frame is bent and the car is totaled because a bent frame is not something that can be fixed. The integrity of the car has been compromised and would no longer be safe even if you tried to repair it. It's done, it's gone, you have no choice. And even though you loved it, it also was a big thorn in your side because it became unreliable and a big pain. What do you remember? The great ride? All those times it left you stranded? Both?

 

That's how she feels about you. It may have been a great ride while it lasted, but the integrity of your relationship was compromised and you are no longer safe for her to be with. And you tarnished the good things by turning into someone who made her feel bad about herself. You gave her no choice but to move on. It's done, it's gone.

 

That's an interesting analogy, definitely one I'd never thought of.

 

If that was the case though, why would she even want me in her life? Obviously I'd be a reminder of that pain if that's all it came down to.

[Ilovehim]

i understand everything you're saying.

 

But here is what you need to know.

Sometimes GOOD things, GREAT things fall apart.

You don't have to convince yourself "it was wrong" or she was "messed up"

Sometimes people really are good people and relationships are great..but they dont last forever. However nothing and noone is perfect so there had to be some flaws as well.

 

I wouldnt use my ex'es "flaws" as reasons not to be with him. If the ex was that bad than go ahead do that, but for me that wasnt the case.

 

Sometimes its just realizing its over and hope that soemday you will find that again.

[Ronni_W]

...when I respond I'm not disagreeing just trying to get deeper into how I feel.

 

You are, though, totally free to express your own opinions and beliefs, even when not in agreement with mine (or anyone else's.)

 

I think that as soon as I started demonstrating my old neurotic behavior she realized she wasn't ready for anything with me yet.

 

Is it possible that she just realized that she didn't WANT to be with you because your old neurotic behaviour hadn't changed, and it is your old behaviour that she found hurtful, depleting and rejecting? (Who would ever be "ready" for that, or willingly invite it into their life?)

 

 

CAUTION: The rest of this is just totally my own interpretation and perspective. It does NOT make you a crappy person who is unworthy of love, happiness and success. Reject EVERYTHING that does not feel 'right' or is not in accord with your own truth.

 

After this visit, I felt great. Her forgiveness felt a lot and helped me towards forgiving myself. ... I was very vindicated, or validated, however you want to look at it.

 

How I'm seeing it is that you placed, and are still placing, the burden of responsibility for YOUR self-esteem, self-confidence, self-validation, self-forgiveness, etc., onto her. And that you really didn't stop to consider what SHE had to sacrifice in order to facilitate your own good, happy, peaceful and positive self-feelings.

 

That is, if she had to sacrifice her own perspective so that YOURS could be upheld, fine! If she had to suppress her own opinion or feeling to validate YOURS, go ahead! If she had to stifle her own meaning so that YOURS could somehow become "more" meaningful, do that! (Again, this is just my own interpretation of what is between the lines.)

 

You were (likely unconsciously) asking her to bury who she is, so that she could "validate" who you are.

If you look at your "old neurotic" behaviour, what was your original intent and purpose, if not also to receive validation and bolster your own self-esteem?

But an unforeseen consequence is that you were sucking dry HER self-esteem and self-confidence, and exhausting her ability to validate herself. THAT is also a possibility of why she backed-off after the road trip. Not because SHE wasn't ready but because YOU weren't ready to be a truly loving, supportive, affirming, nurturing companion.

 

It does NOT make you a crappy person who is unworthy of love, happiness and success.

It just means that you used maladaptive strategies to try to deal with your insecurities, low self-esteem, and/or whatever else. We ALL do that until we become more self-aware and learn more effective strategies.

 

ideally part of me wants to try again with her, without me demoralizing her and being so insecure with her past. I'm not saying it's entirely rational to want to "prove" that to her, just saying it's a drive of mine, and the issue of "redemption" is probably a big thing with me that goes deeper than my experience with her.

 

The thing is that, until you take responsibility for your own redemption and forgiveness and happiness, your habitual ways of trying to get those things IS demoralizing to whomever you make responsible for your stuff. At least, that became your habit after you met her, for whatever reason(s).

 

I used to be pretty self assured, happy, accepting of others.

 

SHE is not stopping you from being that, now. YOU (unconsciously) decided that she has a role to play in how YOU feel and act and perceive the world. Mentally, YOU gave away your own power, and now it feels as if she has the power to "redeem" you and make you whole and happy.

 

But she doesn't have that power (and she probably never wanted it even if you could somehow have actually foisted it upon her.) It is only in YOUR own mind that she has the power.

 

Surely not neurotic or overly analytical ... I want to stop that behavior and the feelings that cause it.

 

There is one school of thought that says, "then stop the behaviour!" But it is also about getting underneath the behaviour, to the (misguided) beliefs and subsequent (error-filled) thoughts that is motivating and influencing it.

 

I believe that feelings follow thoughts, so once you get the beliefs and thoughts sorted out, your feelings will automatically follow.

 

 

I would STRONGLY encourage you to get in touch with the words that most accurately reflect and represent the values and qualities that you want to demonstrate in the world. Even a sentence or two of who you WANT to be.

So far, you have "courageous" and "regret-free" -- an excellent start!

 

Your current self-image, it appears, is all entangled with how your ex sees you. But, of course, that is not a SELF-image at all . Same as somebody else's forgiveness (or redemption or validation) is just always theirs, and will never be your own...you can want it but you will NEVER quite be able to grab hold of it and feel 100% confident about it.

 

Her reaction to me would be something like, "Who are YOU to tell me how I should feel, when you broke my heart first?"

 

Mostly it is just, "Who are YOU, when it comes to ME???"

But you could flesh it out something like this: "Who are YOU to tell me what I "should" feel or think or perceive? Who are YOU to tell me what is meaningful for me, or how meaningful it is "supposed" to be? Who are YOU to determine 'ME'...who gave YOU that right???"

(It has nothing to do with whether or not you broke her heart, or she broke yours. It is totally that she has the right to self-determination.)

[sockpuppet]

Ronni, I want to thank you from the bottom of my heart for taking so much time to write and give me your thoughts. You've actually been able to help me make sense of some of my reactions.

 

A thank you to everyone else as well, I've tried to take everything I read to heart.

 

 

I think that as soon as I started demonstrating my old neurotic behavior she realized she wasn't ready for anything with me yet.

 

Is it possible that she just realized that she didn't WANT to be with you because your old neurotic behaviour hadn't changed, and it is your old behaviour that she found hurtful, depleting and rejecting? (Who would ever be "ready" for that, or willingly invite it into their life?)

 

Yea yea, semantics ...that's what I meant.

 

CAUTION: The rest of this is just totally my own interpretation and perspective. It does NOT make you a crappy person who is unworthy of love, happiness and success. Reject EVERYTHING that does not feel 'right' or is not in accord with your own truth.

 

After this visit, I felt great. Her forgiveness felt a lot and helped me towards forgiving myself. ... I was very vindicated, or validated, however you want to look at it.

 

How I'm seeing it is that you placed, and are still placing, the burden of responsibility for YOUR self-esteem, self-confidence, self-validation, self-forgiveness, etc., onto her. And that you really didn't stop to consider what SHE had to sacrifice in order to facilitate your own good, happy, peaceful and positive self-feelings.

 

That is, if she had to sacrifice her own perspective so that YOURS could be upheld, fine! If she had to suppress her own opinion or feeling to validate YOURS, go ahead! If she had to stifle her own meaning so that YOURS could somehow become "more" meaningful, do that! (Again, this is just my own interpretation of what is between the lines.)

 

You were (likely unconsciously) asking her to bury who she is, so that she could "validate" who you are.

If you look at your "old neurotic" behaviour, what was your original intent and purpose, if not also to receive validation and bolster your own self-esteem?

But an unforeseen consequence is that you were sucking dry HER self-esteem and self-confidence, and exhausting her ability to validate herself. THAT is also a possibility of why she backed-off after the road trip. Not because SHE wasn't ready but because YOU weren't ready to be a truly loving, supportive, affirming, nurturing companion.

 

 

This is huge, and it's been something I've been trying to get away from. She is the type that suffers quietly and doesn't speak up if she cares about someone. I also was very effective at making it seem like it was a problem with her (believe me I'm not proud of this- I honestly was just acting out what seemed appropriate to me at the time, even though it tore me up to do so).

 

Since then, even now, I find that I still put an unfair emotional burden on her. Though in some ways I think that was both of our faults, because she withdrew a lot and jerked me around a lot near the end of our relationship (sure I did have it coming) and I ended up giving all of myself and wanting to do anything to make it right, and she rejected me. Yea, I had to sow what I'd reaped but it still hurt like hell. So things follow a vicious cycle. I know she won't put herself out there, so I put myself out there, hoping for her to respond. She doesn't, I think I can handle it but I can't, I lash out emotionally (a result of insecurity/lack of trust/self esteem). Then I feel stupid. Even now I'm trying to find a way to convey to her how I realize how I've done that and even as friends don't ever want to again.

 

The thing is that, until you take responsibility for your own redemption and forgiveness and happiness, your habitual ways of trying to get those things IS demoralizing to whomever you make responsible for your stuff. At least, that became your habit after you met her, for whatever reason(s).

 

I agree. I'm just terribly hard on myself. I've taken every failure to heart recently, and even though I tell myself I'm getting back up and trying again, I don't let that failure go, I punish myself emotionally.

 

I used to be pretty self assured, happy, accepting of others.

 

SHE is not stopping you from being that, now. YOU (unconsciously) decided that she has a role to play in how YOU feel and act and perceive the world. Mentally, YOU gave away your own power, and now it feels as if she has the power to "redeem" you and make you whole and happy.

 

But she doesn't have that power (and she probably never wanted it even if you could somehow have actually foisted it upon her.) It is only in YOUR own mind that she has the power.

 

100% correct.

 

So where does that leave me? It's sad because there was a time when *I* was the one she could come to for comfort, then that changed when I constantly needed reassurance. In my heart I would've done anything for her and still would, but obviously it's too late for that now and I need to focus on myself.

 

I won't hold out hope any longer, I see it's a bad idea too, but I can't help but wonder if there's any chance for something ever again, much further down the road, with her.

 

My biggest challenge lately is just forgiving myself for being so weak and acting in such a hurtful, dependent way. I have a hard time distinguishing between responsibility and blame, and even though I know the difference logically, I have a hard time relieving myself of the burden of blame/guilt from it all. And of course I'll move on, but it always hurts to remember what you've lost as a 100% result of your own errors. Doesn't help that my circumstances since than have been less than stellar and only made me miss her and what we had more.

 

This sounds so sad, but throughout my whole ordeal with her I've wished I'd just have had some supportive people in my life to hold me and say, "it's okay" that I screwed up. I am jealous because right after we broke up she had a very strong friend network to help build her back up, I had nothing.

 

Thanks again, for everything.

[Ronni_W]

Hugs, sockpuppet. It is TOTALLY okay that you screwed up.

 

Honestly and seriously and genuinely, it is OKAY that you screwed up! (I hereby give you permission to give yourself permission to start forgiving yourself .)

 

You didn't act "weak", just instinctively...as did she. Yes, you may have acted hurtfully but she's the one who let you get away with it.

 

The beauty of your relationship is how nicely you two complemented each other's dysfunctional behaviours -- your first instinct is 'fight', and hers is 'flight'. And the dance begins.

Then you two get to the perceived edge of the 'dance floor', and you switch -- now she's coming at you, and you are backing away from her.

 

It's perfectly fine. That's how it works (at this stage of "relationship evolution".) It's almost as if we can hardly call it a "screw-up" at all.

 

It's definitely not "stupid" to get caught up in it because it just feels so natural...because it is coming from our 'automated response' programming which, unfortunately, is infected with weird and creepy viruses (our own unexplored, misguided beliefs.)

 

And you can choose to see all of it as your "failure", or as your opportunity to learn about yourself and become more skilled in the art of being in relationship. (That's just a mindset thing -- choose positive or choose negative. You just choose, and then you work like crazy to stay true to your choice.)

 

Yea yea, semantics ...that's what I meant.

 

Yea yea, I know. BUT. The words we use are extremely important, for how our own minds process and are programmed, and also so that when we do communicate with others, it is clear and from a self-responsible perspective.

 

...it's been something I've been trying to get away from. ...I also was very effective at making it seem like it was a problem with her

 

Well, yes. We are terrific at convincing ourselves that ALL our problems are outside the Self, and we sit around waiting for others to "come to their senses" and/or to "fix" our crap for us. Problem is, of course, that doesn't work because all our problems can only be adequately and permanently resolved from within. (Though MUCH easier said than done, that's fersure!)

 

The difficulty with not acknowledging ALL the dynamics is, of course, that you won't get to resolve the problems. Your own contribution is the most important because that is what you're dragging around with you...into your job, family & social life, next romantic relationship, etc.

 

It's the crap that turns a normally optimistic mindset into a pessimistic one, which then contributes to things being "less than stellar". And. Your own contribution is the only thing that you have power to change so that it will support and promote who you are, and what you want to be, do and have.

 

...it always hurts to remember what you've lost as a 100% result of your own errors.

 

You were not "neurotic" and dysfunctional in a vacuum! We always need at least one 'dance partner' with whom to do all that pushing and pulling (even though we're actually just trying to glide smoothly and gracefully in the same direction -- honestly, we humans can just act so silly and contrary to our own needs and goals, it has to make one laugh!)

 

She has her own 100% of errors, too. Because

 

She is the type that suffers quietly and doesn't speak up if she cares about someone.

 

IMO, when one cares about someone is EXACTLY the time to speak up instead of suffering in silence. It is that silent space in which resentment, blame, hostility and other crap can creep in...nice and silently, yes?

 

, because she withdrew a lot and jerked me around a lot near the end of our relationship ... and I ended up giving all of myself and wanting to do anything to make it right, and she rejected me. Yea, I had to sow what I'd reaped but it still hurt like hell. ...I know she won't put herself out there, so I put myself out there,

 

The part that's left is the ONLY thing that is relevant and important to your self-forgiveness, and getting out of blame and guilt. The rest of it is just "stories and BS" that'll keep you stuck.

 

Not that it's easy to give up our self-BS but it's okay to start becoming aware of when (and how often) we do it. That's the stuff where, underneath, there is blame and/or guilt and/or trying to be "right" at someone else's expense.

 

Self-responsible looks more like, "I did it. I'm sorry (or glad) that I did it. I reap what I sow."

And then the caution is to not take on responsibility that does NOT properly belong to you. (As in, you are not responsible for the fact that SHE was not assertive enough in the relationship.) But you are responsible for trying to stifle her self-expression -- you had control over that, but not over how she played it.

 

Even now I'm trying to find a way to convey to her...

 

STOP THAT!!! If it helps, tell yourself that she don't give a crap about ANYTHING that you are in need(iness) of "conveying".

Then, explore your neediness, and realize it is yet again so that she can "validate" your prior actions and who you are. That's NOT her job. Besides, you don't need her for that. At least, you won't, once you learn how to validate your Self.

 

In truth, NOBODY wants to hear stuff that's coming from someone else's neediness and self-insecurities. It is demoralizing to just be used that way. It is depleting and exhausting. So. Do your best to try to manage this, especially with her (if there is to be even a remote chance for a 'second chance' at any future point.)

 

I'm just terribly hard on myself. I've taken every failure to heart ... I don't let that failure go, I punish myself emotionally.

 

Well, okay. Just as long as you're not using that as (more) BS excuses for not doing better in your own life.

 

Another thing you can try: What are your perceived benefits and rewards from treating your Self like that?

And. If you were trying to encourage self-esteem and self-confidence in someone else, is that how you'd go about it?

 

It's sad because there was a time ...In my heart I would've done anything for her and still would, but obviously it's too late for that now

 

Boo-hoo...please pass me a tissue.

Seriously, that kind of thought pattern is just going to keep you stuck (and feeling like a victim, to boot.)

 

Hugs, sockpuppet. It is TOTALLY okay that you screwed up.

 

 

I'm glad that you found something useful in my earlier post. Sorry this one is as long...if not longer. With luck, there is something helpful in this one, too.

[sockpuppet]

Well, I think you've gotten me on all of it

 

I'll definitely be saving the thread to look over whenever I feel like doing something I shouldn't (like calling her).

[Surfer Dude]

There's no such thing as "the one". It's a silly and backward sentiment. I would expect to hear something like this from brainwashed "Disney love" highschool girls.

 

There are 3 billion women in the world, of which 1 billion are in your dating range for sure. Do you understand the full extent of this potential? For every woman you know, there are 100 out there even better, you just haven't met them yet.

 

You can find something to love in just about anyone if you take long enough to get to know them.

[Dreaming69]

Ronni_W .. one of the best posts I have read on this forum!!.. Thankyou, that has actually put some perspective into my own current situation!. I too thought I had lost "The One"..

[metro]

I am new to this site because I myself am going thru a difficult breakup & it seems like our situations are similar but each partner in the relationship are having there own experiences..even though it was great for you...you may have not been the exact vision of what she wants in a relationship..she just may have tried because she had feelings but you were probably letting her down in ways that you didn't know...at least I can say that for my case but it doesn't ease the pain of losing someone you wanted to spend your future with. Sometimes you run into woman who do not give you warnings & sometimes they do but you see them or think it's that damaging to your relationship while the woman is constantly dealing with whatever is constantly letting her down until she gives up & once that happens right under your nose..as soon as you break up..she can deal with the breakup easier because she has already prepped for it & you can be replaced in a matter of weeks while you just was blindsided & now you're the one left to deal with the pain because she already has..It is a valuable lessoned learned