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9 months later, WS (EA) describes feelings of "great peace" for OP co-worker...

five&dime

By five&dime
in Infidelity

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five&dime Member

five&dime

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OM is not married. The boss is a woman. WS says boss is extremely ethical and would never abide by anything inappropriate (...um, but dear, you've said many times that you never crossed the line. Why are you afraid of your boss finding out about this if everything is on the up and up?) But I digress...

 

WS has dug herself--and this marriage--quite a hole. Thanks for all the feedback, folks. At the moment, I'm dosing myself on the 180 and taking it day by day.

whichwayisup Established Member

whichwayisup

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Does OM have a girlfriend? Do some digging and find out..

 

The other option is, involve your wifes boss, alert her to this situation with the OM.

jj33 Established Member

jj33

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Id be very loathe to go to her boss. Why risk her losing her job and ruining her professional reputation. That is not giong to get you where you want to be with your wife. If it comes to that. LEAVE.

 

If she doesnt value the marriage enough to do something on her own... and you will be looking to a financial settlement as between the two of you, why put her in a situtaion where she is earning less money and you have to pay more to support the woman who cheated on you and broke your heart?

imagine Established Member

imagine

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The 180 degree is about rescuing a divorce relationship.

 

The MB plan A works to prevent NC with OM. NC is vital in the equation. The story of an unauthorized communication link will not be the first one to break contact.

 

You need to contact the boss in charge and RATIONALLY explain the detriment to your marriage.

 

Never tell your wife about the exposure till afterward. Expose everything in one go.

jj33 Established Member

jj33

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This woman clearly doesnt want to be rescued.

 

And I will say it again. When there is such a clear possibility of divorce BE PRACTICAL. Dont put her in a situation where YOU have to end up paying her more if things dont work out becaus YOU outed the relationship to her employer.

 

Youd be shooting yourself in the foot and resent it for years that she cheated and you tried to save the marriage and in doing so set yourself up for greater fiscal responsibility.

 

You may be prepared for that, but think about it carefully. And who cares if her boss knows her HUSBAND knows and she doesnt care.

Owl Established Member

Owl

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The 180 degree is about rescuing a divorce relationship.

 

The MB plan A works to prevent NC with OM. NC is vital in the equation. The story of an unauthorized communication link will not be the first one to break contact.

 

You need to contact the boss in charge and RATIONALLY explain the detriment to your marriage.

 

Never tell your wife about the exposure till afterward. Expose everything in one go.

 

Imagine, I would normally agree with plan A...but in this case, he's done a "sorta" plan A for several months, with no true change on his wife's side. I don't believe that the OP is ready for plan B, nor do I feel that his wife would "get it" if he did so...I think that it would be the end of their marriage if he attempted it right now.

 

Which is why I suggested the 180 idea. It utilizes the "distancing" element of plan B without the potential finality of it.

 

Plan A would be plan doormat given what he's described of the situation...and plan B would be tantamount to plan D. This gives him another path.

seibert253 Established Member

seibert253

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I'd have to man up and confront the OM. Calmly and professionally tell him I know what's going on, I know about the work IM. I know it's a violation of your company policy, and I know you can be terminated for this. I'd tell him you have two options:

1. Leave your wife alone, never speak to her again, and quit your job.

2. Continue the present path, and I will reveal all this, to include A and violation of company policy, and have him fired.

imagine Established Member

imagine

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I consider the 180 degree plan as a situation of implied sufficiency to WS.

 

I see it as a place where the betrayer is undermined by their BS. Marriage bonding here does not have a very strong emphasis.

 

The exposure to the plan A is missing. F&D needs a solid route to generally address these two workers are in intimate collusion. Possibly the IM relation can work. Another method is to publicly embarrass his wife and OM. He may do this by leaving notices around the place while visiting the Boss.

 

Financial issues clearly are an issue for F&D. Wait till he finds the cost of divorce.

Owl Established Member

Owl

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You lost me with that last post, Imagine. I just didn't understand what you were trying to say. Sorry.

imagine Established Member

imagine

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Dang! Sorry this the way I normally think. I'll try to break it down:

 

180 degree is a FU plan. Makes WW consider whether they want to be ignored.

 

Plan A is about building. But Five & Dime needs a stick. His stick can be a discussion with WW's boss. It can also be a notice of WW and OM's activities stuck on WW office notice board.

 

Exposure will damage WW position in her company.

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five&dime Member

five&dime

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I appreciate all of the feedback. Thank you. WW recently posted this on a different forum, and I am really hoping to get some thoughts on this. She wrote:

 

____________________________

 

"He accuses me of having an EA (emotional affair) at work and can't seem to proceed unless I end my job. My job is the one financially stable thing in our lives--he is selfemployed, no benefits. The job market is extremely tight now. There is nothing out there. The ones I have applied for have rejected me. Plus I love my job--been there over 11 years.

 

Our marriage has been limping along for several years and I asked him to get help several times. I am guilty of seeking outside emotional help through girl friends and my friend at work. But that's it. And, I've stopped any friendship with guy at work. Problem is that interactions continue because of the work needed to be done.

 

Last week, husband insisted that he wanted back in our bedroom. I could not take it and was so relieved that it was an empty threat. He is a mean fighter. I am a bit of a coward in talking with him because his fury and his meaness shut me down.

 

He threatens to go to coworker or boss and tell them about how I feel -- how this has hurt my marriage. I ask him not to because I don't want to be fired or have my reputation killed.

 

I'm so over everything. My son was just diagnosed with seizures associated with epilepsy. My daughter is going through puberty. My Dad is 86 and is dying of heart failure.

 

I feel like I have to end our marriage. He tells everyone about my cheating. I know that having a friendship outside of marriage is bad. I consider myself extremely ethical on many fronts and just now learning it is ok to be human and make mistakes. In Individual Counseling and was in marital counseling. Just need another perspective. How do you know you aren't just in a fog of stress or that the marriage is truly over?"

 

__________________________

 

What is frustrating to me regarding her post is what she left out about her EA. I can't really tell if she's delusional or just mired in denial (or simply too ashamed to post with real honesty...).

 

Here's the tale of the tape, what I found out (the abridged version): 150 private phone calls, private emails ("Oh, OM, you're SO intelligent"..."Sleep tight, OM"..."Until tomorrow, OM"..."I just remembered you won't be in the office this week. Boo hoo!"..."You're SO intelligent, OM!" etc. and so on, private "lunches" that she lied to me about, words in her own journals reading "I can't tell BS the truth or it will end our marriage"..."It's so hard to end that "truth" mentally and spiritually"..."I don't know if OM shares my love"...admission in our last MC session that she had "developed romantic feelings for OM" (after saying to me countless times in 8 months since D-Day "I NEVER had a romantic thought about OM!")...telling me that the personal relationship had ended but finding multiple times through her work email that she inadvertantly left up that she absolutely still had a personal relationship going on with OM...

 

Highlights:

 

- went out alone multiple times with OM, lied about it;

- used words like "love" and "romantic feelings" describing OM;

- 150 private cell phone calls in just over a year (folks, they work together...)

- "I can't tell husband the truth or it will end our marriage"

 

I could go on and on, but I'll leave it there. Her post really pisses me off because I would think, at least on some level, that if she were going to seek true guidance for her/our crisis, she would at least be honest in her post. Maybe I'm the delusional one here.

 

In nine months, she has sent out six resumes and maybe a few more online. Nine months! And yes, I am self-employed, but my income is steady and consistent. She just makes more than I do right now, which hasn't always been the case (just in the last year and a half...)

 

The other thing that really pisses me off is that she says I'm a mean fighter and that I "tell everyone about her cheating"...which is straight-up bull****. I have told exactly one person in this town, a guy, and only AFTER WW had told this guy's wife first. WW has told lots of people in town, but you KNOW what she's telling them has very little resemblence to the full truth.

 

The last thing that pisses me off, and she's said this many times before, and that's that she's "...guilty of nothing more than seeking the emotional support of her girlfriends '...and her 'friend' at work (ie OM).'"

 

She lumps her relationship with OM into the same category as her other girlfriends. Last time I checked, there was only one relationship in her life where she became extremely deceptive, secretive and developed "love" and "romantic" feelings for (to the point that she couldn't tell her husband about or it would "end our marriage")...and that relationship certainly wasn't with any of the girlsfriends she has, all whom I know very well and am very good friends with, too.

 

On another front, I told her last night that I've sat idly by for nine months now patiently waiting for her to affect change in this situation, and the result is zero change in the "situation" (ie contact with dreamy co-worker/OM continues with no hope in sight that NC will EVER be established) and that our marriage is on the brink of collapse (if it's not already there).

 

I told her I'm not going to sit idly by anymore and that I'm going to try to affect change myself. At this point, what have I got to lose? Being patient and waiting for her to affect change in this situation has not worked one iota. It might be too late for me to affect change, but her way hasn't worked at all, and I've been very patient to allow her to try to extricate herself from the hell-hole she created herself.

 

Oh, one last thing...she wrote that our marriage had been limping along for several years. A.) It would have been nice if she had informed me of this, and B.) She did ask me to go to IC, which I have done. I found my therapist just weeks before D-Day. I take 100% responsibility for my contributions to the state of our marriage, just as she should take 100% responsibility for her contributions. I didn't know she was this unhappy. I thought, on balance, after 20 years that we had a pretty good marriage. I looked at it with pride. I didn't know she was disenchanted to the level she was. D-Day was the most devastating thing I've ever experienced. It came so out of the blue.

 

I take ZERO responsibilty for her choices regarding OM. (I now know it's all very cliche'...the husband is oblivious to wife's disenchantment and wife doesn't hammer home the fact that she's disenchanted...all very cliche'...communication breakdown). Still, I take ZERO responsibility for her choices regarding OM and what her affair has done to this marriage.

 

Oh, and regarding my "fury"...I have never touched a hair on her head. Have I yelled? You bet! Have I called her a "liar" when I know she's lying? You bet. I know I have handled this miserably. I just wanted to set the record straight regarding my "fury," which is partly attributable to her shutting down completely (ie - refuses NC, refuses NC letter, locked work email, locked home email, won't talk about interactions with OM, has lied about interactions with OM (which I've found through her inadvertantly leaving work email open...) etc.

 

Any thoughts on what she wrote regarding our situation would be appreciated. Her inability or refusal to include the truth about OM in her post is very frustrating. Thanks!

Owl Established Member

Owl

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I'm curious what the RESPONSES were to her post on that other forum?

 

Did they support her, or did they call her out on her attempt to downplay the situation?

 

Here's the bottom line...she refuses to acknowledge that she did something wrong by having an emotional affair with this guy. She admits that she developed romantic feelings with OM...but refuses to see that as wrong? Refuses to see that as a major hurdle for you to forgive while she still works with this same guy?

 

Honestly...I after reading this, I"ve changed my advice.

 

She's not going to change. I suspect NPD.

 

File for divorce.

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five&dime Member

five&dime

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Thanks Owl - in over 24 hours, she has received no responses to her post.

 

What is NPD?

Owl Established Member

Owl

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Narcissistic Personality Disorder.

 

Do a google search...you'll find a list of things that describe someone with NPD. For a diagnosis, there's a certain percentage that have to pertain...take a look, see what out of that describes your wife.

 

Her refusal to see her mistakes in all of this, when they're so screamingly obvious to everyone else is a potential indicator.

Dexter Morgan Established Member

Dexter Morgan

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I'm curious what the RESPONSES were to her post on that other forum?

 

I am as well, do you have a link to this other forum and her thread?

 

five...as far as her post....its funny that she says she "loves her job"..gee, funny how she didn't view her marriage the same way.

 

And again, nobody is suggesting that she quit her job without another one to go to.

 

The fact that she loves her job is just too damn bad. She needs to lose it and go to another one to prove she still wants this marriage. She keeps the job she has, but sends at least one resume out every week until she finds something. I don't care if she doesn't get anything and gets tired of being rejected. Thats the price she pays for her EA. Because there is NO WAY you should be expected to put up with her being in ANY kind of contact, business or otherwise, with this other man.

jj33 Established Member

jj33

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Five I said it before and will say it again. You seem to be the only one fighting for your marriage and it takes 2 to make a marriage work. You cant force someone to engage the way you want them to.

 

That being said there is at least a 50% chance the marriage wont survive (unless you allow it to continue despite your unhappiness with your Ws behavior).

 

Given all that, if you go to her boss or her company and she is fired, demoted, put on unpaid leave, or suffers damage to her professional reputation, then YOU could end up paying more in alimony or support etc etc. YOU would not only have suffered the indignity of the situation and the broken heart and break up of your family but YOU could end up paying her MORE than you would otherwise be required to pay.

 

Think very carefully before you put yourself in that position. Its all well and good to go to the ends of the earth to save your marriage, but there are very very real potential costs here, particularly in this economy. You are self employed can you really afford this step?

 

Unless you live in a state where "fault" is taken into account in determining spousal support (and I am not even sure there are any) then this could be a fools errand. I would definitely go see a local divorce lawyer before speaking to anyone at her company.

tami-chan Established Member

tami-chan

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Goodness....it is time for you and your wife to close ranks! There is so much going on...sick child, pre-teen daughter, dying in-law..and a very bad marriage! You guys need to come together as a family---re-group!

 

How about you just do not discuss the OM for a bit? and just talk about how you as a family are going to deal with all the other issues in your family? Perhaps doing so will remind you that you only have each other.....

bentnotbroken Established Member

bentnotbroken

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Wow, I know what I would do, but this is your life and you have to do what is best for you and your family. What have you done to try to find out what that is?

Chrome Barracuda Established Member

Chrome Barracuda

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Goodness....it is time for you and your wife to close ranks! There is so much going on...sick child, pre-teen daughter, dying in-law..and a very bad marriage! You guys need to come together as a family---re-group!

 

How about you just do not discuss the OM for a bit? and just talk about how you as a family are going to deal with all the other issues in your family? Perhaps doing so will remind you that you only have each other.....

 

Ignoring the pink elephant in the room only last for so long. tc.

 

cant put it off forever.

tami-chan Established Member

tami-chan

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Ignoring the pink elephant in the room only last for so long. tc.

 

cant put it off forever.

 

They are going around in circles...in the meantime, there is a sick child, a pre-teen who has issues and an ailing father-in-law...

 

Yet again, nobody is saying to put it off FOREVER.....who said that???????

travelgirl Established Member

travelgirl

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Goodness....it is time for you and your wife to close ranks! There is so much going on...sick child, pre-teen daughter, dying in-law..and a very bad marriage! You guys need to come together as a family---re-group!

 

How about you just do not discuss the OM for a bit? and just talk about how you as a family are going to deal with all the other issues in your family? Perhaps doing so will remind you that you only have each other.....

 

Problem is, he has let it go on for 9 months and she is STILL in contact and has feelings for this OM and is NOT taking the lead to work on the marriage, work on her family, etc.... She just expects him to drop it. She is being selfish, not him and for people to recommend they regroup and drop the OM "for awhile" are just prolonging the inevitable that has to be dealt with. She is tense because she doesn't understand his feelings, only hers and will continue to make excuses, see the OM and not work on the marriage no matter what is going on with their family, marriage, relative and kids. THAT is what would make me want to kick her to the curb even more. She is trying to guilt him to drop the issues instead of dealing with it. She needs a reality check, not more months of prolonging this crap she is feeding him. It will make her stronger and more "right" and make him more weak and miserable.

desertmoon Established Member

desertmoon

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Problem is, he has let it go on for 9 months and she is STILL in contact and has feelings for this OM and is NOT taking the lead to work on the marriage, work on her family, etc.... She just expects him to drop it. She is being selfish, not him and for people to recommend they regroup and drop the OM "for awhile" are just prolonging the inevitable that has to be dealt with. She is tense because she doesn't understand his feelings, only hers and will continue to make excuses, see the OM and not work on the marriage no matter what is going on with their family, marriage, relative and kids. THAT is what would make me want to kick her to the curb even more. She is trying to guilt him to drop the issues instead of dealing with it. She needs a reality check, not more months of prolonging this crap she is feeding him. It will make her stronger and more "right" and make him more weak and miserable.

 

what do you think they should do? do you think they are effectively taking care of the other issues at hand (aside from the OM-issue) when they are consumed by the kind of relationship she has or does not have with this other man?

 

They need a truce. Nobody is saying it has to be months. Just maybe a few days to just focus on the family instead of themselves. I don't know. I think both of them are selfish.

travelgirl Established Member

travelgirl

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what do you think they should do? do you think they are effectively taking care of the other issues at hand (aside from the OM-issue) when they are consumed by the kind of relationship she has or does not have with this other man?

 

They need a truce. Nobody is saying it has to be months. Just maybe a few days to just focus on the family instead of themselves. I don't know. I think both of them are selfish.

 

He has given her 9 MONTHS and she is NOT changing. What the heck is a few days going to do? She isn't willing and rather claim family problems in a blog post as the current issues then her failure to work on the marriage or admit to an EA for the past 9+ months he gave her. What do you think SHE will do in those few days? Nothing but be grateful that he is back to his old ways of not dealing with the EA the way he was all the previous months. Then he will be more upset she isn't changing and the cycle will continue. If she doesn't even think or want to give up this man to work on her marriage for the sake of the kids, one that is sick and one that is going thru puberty, then when will she? What kind of role model is she being to her preteen daughter? What values is she setting? Her Dad is sick. Okay, then focus on him and your kids and NOT the OM. Even if she isn't sure about the marriage. But she isn't doing that. She loves her job and loves her "friends" but I didn't see her mention any love for her marriage and family. She just used them as excuses in the post. Pretty pathetic if you ask me. Not worthy of a "few days."

desertmoon Established Member

desertmoon

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He has given her 9 MONTHS and she is NOT changing. What the heck is a few days going to do? She isn't willing and rather claim family problems in a blog post as the current issues then her failure to work on the marriage or admit to an EA for the past 9+ months he gave her. What do you think SHE will do in those few days? Nothing but be grateful that he is back to his old ways of not dealing with the EA the way he was all the previous months. Then he will be more upset she isn't changing and the cycle will continue. If she doesn't even think or want to give up this man to work on her marriage for the sake of the kids, one that is sick and one that is going thru puberty, then when will she? What kind of role model is she being to her preteen daughter? What values is she setting? Her Dad is sick. Okay, then focus on him and your kids and NOT the OM. Even if she isn't sure about the marriage. But she isn't doing that. She loves her job and loves her "friends" but I didn't see her mention any love for her marriage and family. She just used them as excuses in the post. Pretty pathetic if you ask me. Not worthy of a "few days."

 

I think that was what was suggested....to forget the OM and focus on the family....did you miss that?

travelgirl Established Member

travelgirl

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I think that was what was suggested....to forget the OM and focus on the family....did you miss that?

 

Uh, no I didn't miss the suggestion some of you are offering him to do. But did you all miss the 9 months he ALREADY gave her to do that??

 

On another front, I told her last night that I've sat idly by for nine months now patiently waiting for her to affect change in this situation, and the result is zero change in the "situation" (ie contact with dreamy co-worker/OM continues with no hope in sight that NC will EVER be established) and that our marriage is on the brink of collapse (if it's not already there).

 

I told her I'm not going to sit idly by anymore and that I'm going to try to affect change myself. At this point, what have I got to lose? Being patient and waiting for her to affect change in this situation has not worked one iota. It might be too late for me to affect change, but her way hasn't worked at all, and I've been very patient to allow her to try to extricate herself from the hell-hole she created herself.

 

She will not change. She is whining and make excuses because she wants her doormat back, not because she wants to work on her kids or her dad or her marriage. She would have done that already. Your suggestion of "more time" is giving her the doormat back she needs to continue in her ways.

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