Anis Posted May 14, 2009 Posted May 14, 2009 As a BS I have to give a different viewpoint. I had suspicions of an A almost as soon as it began, but never could get definitive proof. It caused so many horrible fights on top of the fights we were already having over our many other issues, but the main thing that kept me there was feeling his love for me. When I accused him he would spend hours reassuring me, and the things he said about her and us always ended up convincing me. I've asked myself that question so many times, how can my H love me if he was cheating with her? It went on for 1 1/2 yr and I found out the truth a year after it ended b/c he told me. For different factors, our relationship started getting better while he was still with her, and eventually he ended it but I think the pressure she put on him made it easier. He has told me that he was giving up hope on us (married only a year at the start of his A), didn't think we would make it much further with or without an A, but he said he was still in love with me and I believe it, b/c I felt it, and yes you can delude yourself but I know for all the things I was doing wrong that wasn't one of them. I know the OW wants to believe there's no passion or love with the W, just like I want to believe H felt nothing real for OW, but none of this fits into tidy little boxes. You might as well just move onto the next rationalization.
angie2443 Posted May 14, 2009 Posted May 14, 2009 MeaganRaye, I've read some of the other threads you've started. You seem like a very troubled person. It might be wise to get some sort of counsiling before you get into a relationship. Untill you get yourself into a more healthy frame of mind, you have a high chance of ending up in a relationship that is unhealthy. Just my 2 cents.
Mr. Lucky Posted May 14, 2009 Posted May 14, 2009 Is it possible for the MM to really LOVE the OW? Love her, yes. Respect her, no not possible... Mr. Lucky
MWC_LifeBeginsAt40 Posted May 14, 2009 Posted May 14, 2009 MM had a talk with his W the other day. He couldn't tell her he loved her, and he couldn't tell her that he didn't love me.
Mr. Lucky Posted May 14, 2009 Posted May 14, 2009 Mr. Lucky - Why not? Because I don't think that you put someone you respect in that position and ask of them what a MM must ask of the OW... Mr. Lucky
bentnotbroken Posted May 15, 2009 Posted May 15, 2009 MM had a talk with his W the other day. He couldn't tell her he loved her, and he couldn't tell her that he didn't love me. All that means is he is having his cake and eating it too. That or he needs HOOKED ON PHONICS.
John Who Posted May 15, 2009 Posted May 15, 2009 Whenever a woman is involved with a MM, the first thing she is told that a. he doesn't love her. he loves his wife b. he'll never leave his wife because he doesn't love you c. it's just about sex Can it be possible for the MM to love the OW more than his wife or possibly love both women the same? It is possible for a MM to love the OW,not in majority of A's but in some.
John Who Posted May 15, 2009 Posted May 15, 2009 Is it possible for the MM to really LOVE the OW? Love her, yes. Respect her, no not possible... Mr. Lucky I agree with this.
angie2443 Posted May 15, 2009 Posted May 15, 2009 Is it possible for the MM to really LOVE the OW? Love her, yes. Respect her, no not possible... Mr. Lucky I don't think it is possible to love someone you don't respect. I think it is possible to be very attatched to someone you don't respect, but that is a very differant thing. Just my opinion.
Gamine Posted May 15, 2009 Posted May 15, 2009 The word love is being thrown around as if it is a 'feeling'. Love is not a 'feeling'... being in love is. Love is standing firmly planted by a man's side when he is diagnosed with prostate cancer. Love is wiping his brow and holding his hand when he needs comfort. Love is deeper and more enduring. Love is a commitment to another to be true to them whether it is for a friend, family, husband, wife, or God. Love is unconditional. Being in love is a feeling based in desire. It is cotton candy. It is the intensity, the infatuation, the thrill. It is the butterflies in your stomach, the hot sex, the fantasy. All relationships that begin with being in love move beyond that initial thrill and either grow into true abiding love or abandon the relationship because they are confused that the 'thrill is gone'. For some, the loss of this thrill or infatuation is perceived as falling out of love. When... in reality... no relationship can sustain the profound 'newness' for an indefinite period. Some settle down into the soft place and others look for more love. But ultimately, since all relationships will evolve the individual may find themselves right back where they started... once again 'falling out of love'. Love is patient, love is kind. It does not envy, it does not boast, it is not proud. It is not rude, it is not self-seeking. It is not easily angered, it keeps no record of wrongs. Love does not delight in evil, but rejoices with the truth. It always protects, always trusts, always hopes, always perseveres. Love never fails. I Corinthians 13:4-
Anis Posted May 15, 2009 Posted May 15, 2009 I think you can love someone without respecting them. You are giving them less than they deserve, considering them less than they should be, you are treating them poorly, but that doesn't mean you don't love them. You don't have to be mature to love someone, and we are not talking only about the highest ideal of selfless, unconditional love. Love is also muddy and blemished. We can love someone even if they don't "deserve" it. And we don't have to be prime specimens to feel that intense emotion for someone.
NoIDidn't Posted May 15, 2009 Posted May 15, 2009 Whenever a woman is involved with a MM, the first thing she is told that a. he doesn't love her. he loves his wife b. he'll never leave his wife because he doesn't love you c. it's just about sex Can it be possible for the MM to love the OW more than his wife or possibly love both women the same? Yes, of course it's possible. But what does it matter to the OW? He is still going home to his W every night. And the other side of the coin is essentially the same. What does it matter if he loves his W or not? He's still cheating on her. Both women are giving the MM way too much power in the triangle. Where is it written that he calls all the shots? I like this answer, but it isn't the only thing that I want to add. I think that it is wholly possible for a MM to love both his W and the OW, albeit differently. ... It has little to do with love and a lot to do with practicality. I think that a MM can love both. I think that a MM can be infatuated with the OW and not know that it feels incredibly like love. I think that the MM can genuinely love the OW more than he ever loved his W. But..... I know that love is never enough for a relationship to thrive on. Love doesn't wash dishes or bring home dinner. Love doesn't write checks or balance check books. Relationships that falter often don't lack love, they lack loving and considerate actions.
NoIDidn't Posted May 15, 2009 Posted May 15, 2009 Is it possible for the MM to really LOVE the OW? Love her, yes. Respect her, no not possible... Mr. Lucky Because I don't think that you put someone you respect in that position and ask of them what a MM must ask of the OW... Mr. Lucky I've known many MM over the years. The biggest one being my dad. And this is how he feels. Sure, he loved some of them, but he also pitied them. Dad was a serial cheater. He loved what they were willing to do for him when he was around, but he would never put himself in the position they allowed for a moment with him. Because he would never respect himself if he was in their position, he didn't feel any respect for them. And my dad is like this single or married. Thank goodness I can't date him! Dad taught me tons about men. In fact, he was the one who told me that my H was in the beginnings of a A when I busted him. Needless to say, I trust my dad's assessment of these things (being infidelity or other game playing in Rs).
White Flower Posted May 16, 2009 Posted May 16, 2009 NID, I wish I knew this about your dad before. Did you know your dad was a serial cheater all your life? If so, what implications did his behavior have on you, if any? I often wondered how exMM's daughter was affected by his cheating. Would it make her ignorant of cheaters because she otherwise worships her father? (I think she only found out about one of them.) She still hasn't married. I often wonder if it had anything to do with the way she perceived her parents M even though on the outside it looked perfectly rosy (except for the one A as she knew it). And MR, I do believe the MM can really love the OW. Sometimes they prove it and sometimes they prove they love themselves more.
me003 Posted May 16, 2009 Posted May 16, 2009 I think that it is wholly possible for a MM to love both his W and the OW, albeit differently. It just isn't easy to leave though, and most people would rather stick with what is easy rather than what it right. Put it this way: a marriage is like a thick rope made of thousands of strands, each connecting and holding together some aspect of MM's life. What he has with OW is more like a shiny thread that only covers some aspects of the MM's life. When it comes time to cut one or the other, a quick snip to a shiny thread is a whole lot easier than hacking away at a thick rope that has so many connections. That's why they usually don't leave. It has little to do with love and a lot to do with practicality. I truly agree with you. I think for me you hit it right on the nail. WOW
White Flower Posted May 16, 2009 Posted May 16, 2009 I truly agree with you. I think for me you hit it right on the nail. WOW I second the motion. LB has always shared great insight with her experience on the subject.
NoIDidn't Posted May 16, 2009 Posted May 16, 2009 NID, I wish I knew this about your dad before. Did you know your dad was a serial cheater all your life? If so, what implications did his behavior have on you, if any? I often wondered how exMM's daughter was affected by his cheating. Would it make her ignorant of cheaters because she otherwise worships her father? (I think she only found out about one of them.) She still hasn't married. I often wonder if it had anything to do with the way she perceived her parents M even though on the outside it looked perfectly rosy (except for the one A as she knew it). Where have you been?! LOL. I've always posted about him. He's been that way all my life, but I didn't live with him. So I got to hear about him and his dalliances from my friends and their mothers, daughters, and other female relatives. He's quite the catch to many, so they figured they could change him or out game him. LOL. I think its different when a girl grows up in the same household as her cheating father. I did idolize him until his words and actions clearly didn't match up around age 11. And he trained me on how to look out for guys like him. He's always been unapologetic about it. He used to bring his *girlfriends* with him to pick me up. I hated those visits because the woman thought she was getting in good if he was taking her to meet me, but it usually meant she was about to get dumped because I did not take too kindly to strangers butting in on my time with him - even if he did bring them. He used me to get rid of them. The one that he truly loved and thought about leaving my stepmom for, I never met until I went to his church (she was married to a deacon). He was/is a shameless hussy. And I still love him. He's the only one I have. I will say, though, that age has slowed him down.
tami-chan Posted May 16, 2009 Posted May 16, 2009 He was/is a shameless hussy. And I still love him. He's the only one I have. Do you respect him? Why or why not?
NoIDidn't Posted May 16, 2009 Posted May 16, 2009 Do you respect him? Why or why not? No I do not respect him. I don't support his choices or his justifications of them. But one need not have respect for love, as we have already said in this thread. I will always show him the respect a parent is due. But that doesn't mean that I truly respect him. I hope that makes sense.
White Flower Posted May 16, 2009 Posted May 16, 2009 Where have you been?! LOL. I've always posted about him. He's been that way all my life, but I didn't live with him. So I got to hear about him and his dalliances from my friends and their mothers, daughters, and other female relatives. He's quite the catch to many, so they figured they could change him or out game him. LOL. I think its different when a girl grows up in the same household as her cheating father. I did idolize him until his words and actions clearly didn't match up around age 11. And he trained me on how to look out for guys like him. He's always been unapologetic about it. He used to bring his *girlfriends* with him to pick me up. I hated those visits because the woman thought she was getting in good if he was taking her to meet me, but it usually meant she was about to get dumped because I did not take too kindly to strangers butting in on my time with him - even if he did bring them. He used me to get rid of them. The one that he truly loved and thought about leaving my stepmom for, I never met until I went to his church (she was married to a deacon). He was/is a shameless hussy. And I still love him. He's the only one I have. I will say, though, that age has slowed him down. I understand the difference between showing respect and actually respecting someone. If I had known about your dad I might have taken some of your posts a little bit more seriously...or with a stronger punch. MM's daughter has a dad with a very watchful eye; any guy she dates gets the full once-over by her daddy. No man will ever hurt his baby, Daddys' little girl. I'm just curious to know if she will be naturally drawn to men who cheat because she lived with and idolized one for so long even if she didn't know it outright.
tami-chan Posted May 16, 2009 Posted May 16, 2009 No I do not respect him. I don't support his choices or his justifications of them. I understand. But one need not have respect for love, as we have already said in this thread.I didnt say otherwise. I was just curious if you respect him... I will always show him the respect a parent is due. But that doesn't mean that I truly respect him. I hope that makes sense.So you are able to compartmentalize your respect for him...you respect him as a father, but do not respect him as a man/human being? Does it make sense? I guess...no, not really...if you do not "truly respect him", then you dont respect him...???? hmm...totally gray....
whichwayisup Posted May 16, 2009 Posted May 16, 2009 Both women are giving the MM way too much power in the triangle. Where is it written that he calls all the shots? Problem is, the OW has power, she just doesn't want to rock the boat and try to take control -Fear of losing MM maybe. And, the wife, well, she's in the dark so how can she be part of the triangle? Unknowingly she's in it, but that's not the same as being IN the triangle like the OW and MM are.
NoIDidn't Posted May 16, 2009 Posted May 16, 2009 So you are able to compartmentalize your respect for him...you respect him as a father, but do not respect him as a man/human being? Does it make sense? I guess...no, not really...if you do not "truly respect him", then you dont respect him...???? hmm...totally gray.... Whiteflower said it perfectly: There is a difference between showing respect vs. actually respecting someone. Not so gray when you look at it that way. It just is what it is. I'm not sure what you are asking on the "human being" part, though. I don't respect you, and you are human. But I certainly show you respect. I don't know you. You don't have any affect on my life, so I show you respect. And that's good enough for most people.
White Flower Posted May 16, 2009 Posted May 16, 2009 I understand. I didnt say otherwise. I was just curious if you respect him... So you are able to compartmentalize your respect for him...you respect him as a father, but do not respect him as a man/human being? Does it make sense? I guess...no, not really...if you do not "truly respect him", then you dont respect him...???? hmm...totally gray.... Not to threadjack but the thread has turned in a few directions. I think we all compartmentalize in our efforts to respect people. Some do it better than others; this is usually called being polite. We know how to behave in a social setting and keep our feelings to ourselves, especially if we haven't been the direct target of someone's wrongdoings as in NID's case. Her father didn't directly hurt her with his cheating but since she knows about it she does not respect him fully. Yet, she can respect him for being a good provider, protector, grandfather and any other fine attribute he might have. She just can't respect the whole man because part of him was very disrespectful toward the women in his life. Other people tend to be brutally honest and rather blunt. These people tell it like it is, or the way they see it and you always know what is on their mind but we usually don't call these people polite. In fact, you can often respect their opinion but not neccessarily their delivery of it. I tend to respect those who can be honest and polite at the same time.
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