Pierotte Posted March 28, 2009 Posted March 28, 2009 So after recently reading some Ayn Rand books it has become increasingly obvious to me that the worst thing people can do is live lives that aren't their own. It means they live an empty life while ruining the lives of those close to them. I'm not an ingrate, I appreciate all the sacrifices my parents have made to provide for me, I know I'm lucky (financially), in fact so much luckier than most, which is why it pains me to write this, I shouldn't feel the way i do... but I am bitter and resentful as I never asked for them to do this, and now there is no way out. God... I sound like a total ****... It's one of those cliché stories: parents after living their own troubled lives (one fleeing a war torn area to earn money support their siblings, the other working to support their younger siblings after their fathers death... sad complicated stories) leave to a Western country to have children so they can provide for these children so well, give them painless cushy lives so they never have to suffer like they did. They both worked hard to provide for me, give me everything I could need, but whilst doing this they forgot they are their own people, I became the sole purpose of their passionless lives, and now that I am turning 21 this year, grown up, and needing to create my own path a giant dilemma is created. My parents paid for my school, are paying for university, and before I was 18 had both an investment property and put it my name, to ensure I will be financially well off and educated. All their money has gone into me. I was a good kid, placid, completely submissive, I let them pick my friends, tell me I couldn't go to sleep overs, dress me blah blah blah with only the odd argument. I maintained far above average grades at school, never got into any real trouble (and they don’t know about the minor trouble I have gotten into), got into a good university to study architecture. I feel these are things I HAD to do to keep my parents love. As i was growing up I figured it just wasn't worth the arguments, I figured i was still a kid and had to appreciate the fact my parents fed me and put a roof over my head. I kept thinking at some point, when I turned 16 they'd start to give me space... when i turned 18... 19... 20... No... There is still no respect. My Dad is become resentful as he is realising he has raised a mindless daughter, who has no ambition and no initiative. He feels when I do things wrong that I don’t respect him. He feels if I don’t respect him his life is a waste. He is seeing the hole he has dug, but he won’t ever accept it, it would kill him. My mother hates me as it is clear I no longer respect her but have to listen to her as I'm scared of her. My cushy controlled life means I am a completely sheltered idiot, I have no idea how to look after my self, I never had the chance to test the waters, they disabled me in such as way that I need them. They thought they were doing the right thing, to care for me, to make sure I made no mistakes, make sure I never got hurt... But when does this end? When I get married and have someone else to look after me? Hell no. I’m not completely pathetic. On the outside I seem to have it completely together. I seem confidant. I participate in co-curricular activities, look like I know what I want. I’m a masterful bull **** artist. Some people are jealous of my confidence and drive. It’s an act… the simplest parts of my life are so falling apart. I'm disenchanted with my life. I have no wants, no desires, I feel like it's all been stamped out of me. I have no original thought. I have no passions, I’m so insecure, I can’t have people come close to me. The closest I come to being happy is laying in bed when no one knows where I am, not thinking, no responsibilities, no people around me, no lies, no thoughts, no pressure. People who get close to me think I’m a bit insane, completely f’kd up and lacking in any real value system other than not wanting to hurt my parents. They always leave. A combination of them not liking the real me, and me deliberately pushing them away. I'm too scared to break away from my parents... And i CANT leave them, because if i do IT WILL KILL THEM. I have become their sole purpose in life. If i leave them they have NOTHING. If I leave them it means their lives have been wasted. Completely wasted. Because they put it all on me. I am their life. I'm a bloody puppet. I can't handle this pressure. This fear of screwing up. This fear of killing them if I do. I don’t know what to do. Please don’t reply just saying "cut them off" because i deeply love these people. They are good good people. They don’t deserve to be hurt like that. I feel even talking to them will hurt them, I feel if they knew what was behind my mask that would kill them. I think if they thought I desired anything else they wouldn't understand why, even the thought that I might need something else is a betrayal to them all their work, their world, is on me. ...They tried to shape me, but they couldn't. I want to shape my own life, but I can't. I need advice, or just to talk to people, people who have been in similar situation or can understand what this is like. I can't fix this on my own. It's complete emotional and financial blackmail. They can't love me for who I am. ... I... I don't know what else to say or what to do...
Zeta4PhiSius Posted March 28, 2009 Posted March 28, 2009 Pierotte- OMG everything you said in that post reflects my life, although I am free to choose friends. I'm not limited in that regard (but everything else fits). If someone else has something for this type of situation I would love to hear it. There's no way out and it's depressing (even though I wear the smiley mask that everything's okay) because of how bad things are with ALL of the RESTRICTIONS. I would give anything to be able to shape my own life.
Athena Posted March 28, 2009 Posted March 28, 2009 But when does this end? I don’t know what to do. Hi, I am the mother of two -- an 18 yr old daughter and an almost 22 yr old son. Of course as parents we provide everything we can for our children, particularly to raise their standard of living, education, and earning potential. However, more important is that our children become happy and mature adults. As our children grow into young adults, we let go more and more aspects of their lives which we have controlled/or 'handled' for them (whether they asked us or not). The thing you should remember is that your parents WANT to see you successful, and in order to see this, they realize that you must be 'launched'... of course it is a tad difficult letting youngsters fly out the nest when they've never flown before! And its difficult for parents to stop the mommying and daddying just like that! Here's what you need to do: Stop taking emotional responsibility for your parents!!! You will not disappoint them. Even if you are of Asian background and your parents demand a HIGH level of expectation from you, you can still become your own person, in charge of your own life. You need to stop worrying about them, and whether or not they will be okay without you to fuss over! They will be okay. You must allow them to handle their own business, while you manage yours. Even if they 'fuss' over you (and I am sure, that if you are an Only child, their entire focus is on YOU alone!!!) you just nod and carry on with your own thing. All they want in return from you is love, a bit of gratitude (don't have to overdo it by feeling guilty), and respect. In breaking free from them, you do not have to disrespect them or go 'wild'. You take charge gradually, and as you take over the running of your complete life, they will accept and smile. Anyway, I can assure you that apart from your upbringing, it is also your age group that tends to be in that developmental stage of being Idealistic. Stop being so hard on yourself. Chill. You are not a stage act. You can let your hair down... slowly slowly. Pick out one activity and add it into your life. For eg gym, or a sport, or a hiking or cycling group, or dancing, or photography and sign up somewhere to have fun, meet people, and learn to socialize. So... you have been way too perfectionist in every aspect up to now, you have 'succeeded' in lots of areas, now is the time to learn the other skills -- the ones to have fun, do activities, and socialize, fall in love, etc. Do Not Wait for Your Parents to 'give you' permission to be an adult -- gradually take charge. You do NOT have to 'fight' them for it, you do not have to 'write them off', you don't have to never see them again. Continue to be polite, respectful, and loving with them all the while doing your own thing. Its not wrong. Its normal. They will come to accept it, and be proud of you. Don't be so hard on yourself. And -- it's not All or Nothing!!!! There is a middle ground where you can be dutiful to them, but still be living your own life!!!!!! The next couple of years will be when it all takes place -- and you're in charge. Exciting. If they try step on your decision, calmly but firmly tell them you respect them but you reserve the right to making your own life decisions. That you are grown, and you will take it from here.
Athena Posted March 28, 2009 Posted March 28, 2009 Pierotte- OMG everything you said in that post reflects my life, although I am free to choose friends. I'm not limited in that regard (but everything else fits). If someone else has something for this type of situation I would love to hear it. There's no way out and it's depressing (even though I wear the smiley mask that everything's okay) because of how bad things are with ALL of the RESTRICTIONS. I would give anything to be able to shape my own life. When normal loving parents have RESTRICTIONS it is usually for safety's sake.... some of it is apparent to you, perhaps some not?! Anyway, age-appropriate activities and responsibilities should be taken on by you. If you have to 'fight' to earn those rights, then do so with respectful arguments and follow-up actions that show you can do things. You say you would give anything to shape your own life? All in good time. But for now, you can plot out which 'battles' to fight and gain your independence over if your parents wont willingly hand over responsibilities which you want to take on for yourself. And remember -- Actions speak louder than Words... less arguments, more doing stuff! Tackle the restrictions One at a time, and prove you can handle taking ownership by showing responsibility.. . It will be a welcomed relief to your folks that you show you can handle aspects of your life yourself....
Author Pierotte Posted March 29, 2009 Author Posted March 29, 2009 Athena, There are some points in your post that I really think are beautiful in theory, and I will continue to try them. Namely "actions speak louder than words". I started to come to such a realisation a while ago, and recently completed a scuba diving course. I expected my parents to be proud of my initiative, even impressed by my wanting to do something so exciting. Their reactions were very disappointing. Half way through the course when I came home after my first dive and was wanting to share it with them. My dad rudely interrupted, angry, wondering how I could be happy wasting so much time on this. Why couldn't I do something to keep him happy, like keeping my room tidy, and he really really hoped it wasn't going to affect my studies. I was gutted. I'm not sure if I even enjoyed diving, but I did it to try something new so I wasn't just at home and constantly jaded. I did it so maybe we would have something to talk about, so they would think I was ok. They weren't interested. I don't think I'll go for another dive. There seems no point, it's not worth the argument. Even when I prove my ability to do things on my own there is always a negative. Always. I was the sole student representative for my university for the national student body for architecture, it was a lot of work, a lot of time, involved arranging activities, sign up days, having meetings with the faculty and also the wider architectural community. He could clearly see how much work this involved, and the kinds of prominent people I was dealing with. Others were impressed by my initiative and hard work. He never said he was proud, just that I was wasting my time and should tidy my room. ...it always comes back to a mess and him wanting to be happy. Wantig me to make him happy. I could tidy the entire house, have it sparkling, only to have him see the bin wasn't taken out - the bin will literally be the only thing he can see. He will see mess, and be miserable. I can't please him. It's really hard to not take emotional responsibility for them when they say things like the only thing that will make them happy is a tidy house. Sometimes I feel they are incapable of being happy at all. Their lives are as sheltered as mine, they don't have a world outside of their careers and me and a messy house. That's it. They have no hobbies, no interests, nothing to distract them from the minor trivialities that bring them misery. If they had something else in their lives I wouldn't feel so much pressure. But they don't. They don't even have each other. They make each other miserable but are stuck through commitments of what they think is right and proper. As for love, that's a joke to me. They're so hung up on thinking of me as a child that if an intimate scene comes on a movie on tv we are watching dad will change the chanel. Boyfriends are not an option, and will never be an option. They can't see me that way. My dad has said recently that he would love to see me get married one day (after I finish my studies, have a job etc). It would make him happy to see me happy and settled down. Oh, of course with someone from our background. It terrifies him to think anything else could be an option. I don't understand how he can expect me to go from never having a boyfriend to one day think of marriage. It's madness. My mother is a prude, to her kissing on the lips is filthy, she is scientific and cold and can't understand stupid people who think in other ways. I do at times think the only way I got here was as the immaculate conception. There is a complete cultural divide at times. Also, me and my parents are just very different people, they don't get that and can't try to understand the person I might be. And they're completely hung up on how other people might view me "no, you can't go out, what if someone we know sees you!" ... how do I reason with that? That no one should care about what I do but me? They can say horrble things, like my mother "if you keep getting pimples I will stop loving you. I never got pimples, why do you? What will people think, that we don't clean you?" I'm a good child to have, they sometimes say they appreciate the fact I'm their child- but there are always better children they could have had, always ways I could be better, always regerets with me, and how hard I try is lost on them. I know thhey love me, but I know their love is conditional, I know if I do something wrong by them instead of helping me through it they will feel betrayed, hurt, ruined... and they will stop loving me and just die. ...sorry, this post is even more self obsessed than my first (and long). I just need to get it out and get clearer perspective.
doushenka Posted March 30, 2009 Posted March 30, 2009 I will admit up front that my perceptions are, like yours, heavily influenced by a prominent thinker -- in my case, Carl Rogers. (Wikipedia: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carl_Rogers) One point on Ayn Rand: she's not so great if you want to turn out remotely empathetic. Her literature exists mostly to push her philosophy, and her characters tend to lack human depth and emotion. God... I sound like a total ****... We all do, from time to time, but it's curable. Scorning your parents' stories didn't exactly win you points, duckie. My mum grew up in postwar Germany, and while some of what she instilled in me doesn't make sense to me, I see why she thinks that way. I feel these are things I HAD to do to keep my parents love. I understand this feeling. Then I fell ill with depression, and we all had to forge a new path. At no time, however, did they stop loving me. They got frustrated and fearful, perhaps because they loved me so much. I think your parents, for all the limitations they placed on you when you were young, love you unconditionally. I kept thinking at some point, when I turned 16 they'd start to give me space... when i turned 18... 19... 20... No... There is still no respect. That's not how it works, though. You do, at some point, need to put your foot down, as frightening as it seems. If you can do it rationally, all the better, but there's a reason why normal teenage development includes rebellious behavior. That's how we make our own paths in life. I'm seeing a fear of failure on your part as much as a case of overprotective parenting. When you grow up trying to be perfect, you get scared of trying new things; failure is not an option. It is to be avoided at all costs, to the point where it's better to lack autonomy than to fail. I feel even talking to them will hurt them, I feel if they knew what was behind my mask that would kill them. I think if they thought I desired anything else they wouldn't understand why, even the thought that I might need something else is a betrayal to them all their work, their world, is on me. I think you and your parents need to go into therapy, together and individually. Counselors act as mediators and facilitators. Being on the outside, they are most capable of getting to the heart of a matter where, say, your three stories might conflict. I also think your parents may have serious unresolved issues stemming from their experiences in a war-torn environment. I wish you all luck, because it looks like you've got quite a lot of untangling to do.
blind_otter Posted March 30, 2009 Posted March 30, 2009 First off, I detest Ayn Rand. JMO, she seems cold to me. Unemotional and detached from the emotional confusion that is humanity. I can somewhat understand your position, OP. I came from parents who sacrificed a lot and also endured tremendous hardships prior to me even being a concept that could possibly come into existence. I often felt, growing up, that I owed something to my parents, if for no other reason than to honor what they had to go through. I was lucky, though, to have an older father who had tons of life experience to mellow him out. He was a mediator in my family dynamic, though since his death in 2006 things have become strained. I am almost 10 years older than you. IME, this is what I have learned. Your parents cannot and will not respect you as an adult or see you as an individual until you take steps to disentangle yourself from the current dynamic. This may cause friction, it may even cause a huge amount of temporary discord. This is something you have to endure. You can only be responsible for you. You cannot change them, unless they themselves feel the impetus for change. Some parents are not able, for whatever reason, to simply raise their children to adulthood and let go, allowing you to fly free of your own accord. Sometimes you have to cut the apron strings yourself. It's funny because I understand this much, much more since I had my own son last year. I would lay down my life for him. I would siphon my own life force energy into him if that's what it took. I think the moment I pushed him into this world I realized what my parents had done for me - and truthfully I could never have understood until had my own child to look after. Also, my father's death put things into perspective for me. He had a protracted battle with cancer - so, for better or for worse, I had time to have some deep conversations with him, and he willingly opened up himself philosophically to me to communicate one thing: live your life for you. There will come a time, sooner or later, when your parents are gone. And you will be the only one here to deal with the consequences of your own life choices. Do not live your life out of fear, resentment, anger, or regret - those emotions only lead to poor choices and more of the same emotions. Eventually you will be swimming in them and those feelings will cloud your reason and judgment to the point that you will not be able to find your way without a lot of struggle and transformation. They may not be consciously aware of it, or may be aware but unable to communicate this, but I think that ultimately what will make your parents happy is if you live your life for you. I only say that because that is what I want for my son.
popey Posted March 31, 2009 Posted March 31, 2009 OP, I very much identify with your feelings, and I am 37 y/o. I differ from many of the othe respondants in that I dont think it is clear that what your parents truly want is for you to be happy being the real you. This may be the case, but it also may not. You should not feel shame for the fact that they experienced hardship, and provided for you, and yet you still feel very disatisfied. Children need parents to provide what they need. Even if they did/do their best, no matter what sacrafices they made, if you feel obligated to meet their needs rather than free to be you; you have been neglected. This hurts, no matter how many advantages you have, and no matter how well intended they are or are not. I agree that therapy could be helpful. IMO, it sounds like you feel so encumbered by your parents, that therapy by yourself and for yourself would be the best start. I want you to know that I understand how you feel, and feeling this way does not mean you are an ingrate. Your situation cannot be boiled down to a post, but I'll offer a few important (IMO) points: 1. If you live your life trying to fullfill your parents' needs, you will fail. It cannot be done, and you will be the sacrafice. 2. You deserve at least as much respect as they do. It is not out of line to demand it. 3. Their hard life explains some of their limitations, but doesn't make a damn bit of difference about how their treatment made you feel as their child in need of their unconditional love, approval, acceptance and protection. 4. They absolutely will not die, b/c you change the rules. If you don't however, you may never live. 5. there is no "should" or "should not" when talking about your feelings. Your feelings are what they are, and there is no reason to invalidate them. 6. It sounds like you've been trying really hard. I bet its really tiring and distressing. Totally understandable, and I can imagine that you feel the need for a break. I think you deserve it.
Athena Posted March 31, 2009 Posted March 31, 2009 By the way, if you are at college, there is undoubtedly free counseling available there, and you would benefit, I am sure.
mental_traveller Posted April 2, 2009 Posted April 2, 2009 That's not how it works, though. You do, at some point, need to put your foot down, as frightening as it seems. If you can do it rationally, all the better, but there's a reason why normal teenage development includes rebellious behavior. That's how we make our own paths in life. I agree with this. Quite frankly you need to pluck up some courage and tell them to back the f*** off. You don't have to cut them out of your life, although they may well do this to you for a while, but you do need to become independent and tell them to mind their own damn business. You are way too passive and will continue to get walked all over by them until you assert yourself more.
TwinkletOes26 Posted April 2, 2009 Posted April 2, 2009 than why does the bible tell people that rebellion is sinful. Every church ive ever been to says rebellion is sinful and youll go to hell. Now trying to be ugly just interjecting lol
Athena Posted April 2, 2009 Posted April 2, 2009 than why does the bible tell people that rebellion is sinful. Every church ive ever been to says rebellion is sinful and youll go to hell. Now trying to be ugly just interjecting lol Doesn't that same bible also tell young people to cleave from their parents and set up home with their spouse?!!!!! ah ha... ?
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